Date   

Re: Stock pens

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Dave Mueller writes:


"--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

One rather odity is a photo in Turbines
Westward showing a turbine switching the Hermosa pen.
******************************************************
Anyone found that pic yet ?? If so what page ??"

Dave, first, please sign your name...an important rule of the STMFC. I had to search to find out who wrote you were.

Now, in response to your question...pg 169. Unfortunately, this is a second edition supplement which I procured separate from the original book [ no idea how I got it ]. The photo shows engine 56 with about 20 stock cars either pushing them into a siding at Hermosa or pulling them out in 1955. This photo might also be in Wolff's Turbine Era book [ I'll check later ]. Regretfully, this photo leads to more questions than it answers. The pen at Hermosa had a "capacity for immediate loading" of only 12 animals [ in 1946 ]. The photo appears to show possibly 2 stock cars down at the pen [ maybe ]. It is possible, then, that the train is picking up these 2 cars and putting them adjacent to stock cars on the head in. The train is headed east. That doesn't necessarily mean that the cars are loaded or MT but the live stock despatch trains would have been going west. Anyhow, if you have access to this photo, you might consider putting on a coat. Temp that November 2 day was -8� according to the caption...and it looks like it. Incidentally, #56 is a straight sided single unit turbine...no tender.

Mike Brock


Re: Sunshine Meet in S Cal in March

Robert Cheeks <Rcheeks666@...>
 

Rob

It is at the Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris,CA

http://www.oerm.org/

for maps, driving directions and hours.

Robert Cheeks
Riverside,CA


Rob Kirkham wrote:

Can someone post where to go in Parris, CA, to find this show? I'll happen to be in CA at the time and would like to drop in - if I can find the place.
Rob Kirkham
Vancouver, BC, Canada


Re: Sunshine Meet in S Cal in March

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Can someone post where to go in Parris, CA, to find this show? I'll happen to be in CA at the time and would like to drop in - if I can find the place.

Rob Kirkham
Vancouver, BC, Canada

----- Original Message -----
From: "charles slater" <atsfcondr42@...>
To: <stmfc@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Sunshine Meet in S Cal in March



Martin just got home on Thursday and he is going to get the California mailing out this week. He is coming out and will be at Parris on March1, Buena Park on March 2, Winterail in Stockton on March 8 and Pleasenton on March 9. I spoke with him on Friday and he said with two shows this close together it is a very busy time for him. Trisha was updating the west coast mailing list and the notice will be mailed soon.
Charlie Slater

To: STMFC@...
From: wwww5960@...
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:02:00 -0800
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine Meet in S Cal in March




















Hi all.......Has anyone received any info on the Sunshine meet in Orange County on March 2nd?.......Best Jim Williams



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Re: Sunshine Meet in S Cal in March

charles slater
 

Martin just got home on Thursday and he is going to get the California mailing out this week. He is coming out and will be at Parris on March1, Buena Park on March 2, Winterail in Stockton on March 8 and Pleasenton on March 9. I spoke with him on Friday and he said with two shows this close together it is a very busy time for him. Trisha was updating the west coast mailing list and the notice will be mailed soon.
Charlie Slater

To: STMFC@...
From: wwww5960@...
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:02:00 -0800
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine Meet in S Cal in March




















Hi all.......Has anyone received any info on the Sunshine meet in Orange County on March 2nd?.......Best Jim Williams



__________________________________________________________

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs




























_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/


Re: praise for Mike Brock

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I don't recall these having a whitish color either<
While brass is a no-no I have may photos that show whitish wheels (usually just one) on engines and sometimes cars. Looks like whitewash and was use to magna flux (check for cracks in the wheels). They didn't bother to wash it off so it would turn the color of all other wheels in a short period.
Well it's sorta of an excuse!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: praise for Mike Brock

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Lawrence Rast and others have commented positively on the ACL 4-6-2 shown in the outstanding Seaboard-Coastline Modeler headed by Generalissimo and STMFC member John Golden.

I have to question, however, the brass colored pilot wheels. Surely by now these would have been covered by something more appropriate...some shade of black, no doubt. I don't recall these having a whitish color either, so, while I'll check the in service photos that I have, I'm pretty certain that blackish it should be. And, I seem to recall noting this before ...perhaps each year when I placed it on a display table at Prototype Rails. Interestingly, I seem to recall questions about the number of spokes and the tender trucks but never a comment about the color [ shudder...color again ].

Anyhow, don't worry about this being out of scope. Some time ago those in charge of the STMFC [ well...me with able assistance from Assistant Jeff Aley and support from several much more knowledgeable guru's ] decided that discussions about the steam locos that pull our frt cars were as in scope as the contents of our cars and/or the plants they serve. I mean, if we can talk about bananas every 3 months or so, surely we can talk about brass wheels on an ACL Pacific. All of this is, of course, subject to the discretion of the group's management [ uh...Jeff and me ]. And, for those curious, the ACL P5a Pacific were dual purpose engines used in frt service as well as passenger.

Hmmm. Those brass colored wheels are really bothersome.

Mike Brock


Re: Stock pens

djm1141 <dmueller183@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Doug Harding writes:
One rather odity is a photo in Turbines
Westward showing a turbine switching the Hermosa pen.
******************************************************
Anyone found that pic yet ?? If so what page ??


Re: praise for Mike Brock

Lawrence Rast
 

Ed,

The caption on Mike's lovely loco states: "Mike's model was featured
in the February 2004 issue of Railmodel
Journal, 'Superdetailing the Genesis USRA 'Light' 4-6-2 Pacific as ACL
Class P-5-A.'" That might be a starting place.

Oh, and I bet there are steam era freight cars behind that loco in the
picture. :)

Best,
Lawrence Rast

On Feb 8, 2008 11:09 PM, ed_mines <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Mike that locomotive in SCL modeler is terrific. And it's plastic.

Could you think of some venue where you can explain what you did? The
traditional modeling magazines are apparently persona non grata.

Freight car content - Mr. Brock rules the steam era freight car
discussion group.

Ed


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Philip Dove <philip.dove@...>
 

Mike
If you want steam era cow chips (We less euphemistically inclined Britons talk of cow shit) go to a living history museum where they have preserved cows from past history. Remember the colour varies with diet, lighting conditions, thickness of deposit, age of deposit, humidity of the chip etc. Because the animals were closely packed the faeces were more likely to land on the flanks of a neighbouring animal, then drip onto the floor so it would probably be trampled into a formless layer. Did much get shot through the slats onto the car side or ground? .Don't forget the cars would get cleaned out between trips so an empty car probably had bare floors. In the UK pre 1925 cattle cars got coated with lime wash as a disinfectant between trips, did this happen on any of North American railroads? I once loaded a P2k double deck car with pigs, I couldn't get the full number in. The load of plastic pigs weighted the car by a few ounces more. All you could see was the snout of a pig that had been put through the slats and tails deliberately placed in the same way. I agree with those who say loading a North American cattle car with real 3 dimensional animals is a waste of effort.
Philip Dove

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 08 February 2008 05:10
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Adding weight to a stock car


Tony Thompson writes about stock car weights:

"Same point regarding weight: I just put it on the
floor and paint flat black."

Flat black? Have you studied the...uh....floor colors of these cars?
Wouldn't you be better off coming up with a...uh...chip color [ somewhat
akin to "buffalo chips" that were used supposedly long ago in the west for
camp fires ] from...uh...cattle to compare to? The question would depend, I
suppose, on the type of cattle. Hereford Brown perhaps? Angus Dark Brown or
maybe Long Horn Greenish Brown? Obviously, I'm not much on cattle but might
not the color of "chips" depend upon the food source? I cannot imagine how
one might come up with the "correct" color without a "chip" to match. Hmmm.
Wonder where one might obtain such "chips" from the steam era?

Mike Brock


Re: praise for Mike Brock

Clark Cooper
 

That'll be at

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/

Volume 1, Issue 3.

Beautiful work, Mike.

-Clark Cooper

On Feb 9, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Oooooo-kay. I deleted the link to the SCL modeler pages, and NOW I'd like to look. Could somebody
send it to me or post it on the list again, please?

TIA

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of ed_mines
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:09 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] praise for Mike Brock

Mike that locomotive in SCL modeler is terrific. And it's plastic.

Could you think of some venue where you can explain what you did?
The
traditional modeling magazines are apparently persona non grata.

Freight car content - Mr. Brock rules the steam era freight car
discussion group.

Ed


Re: praise for Mike Brock

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Oooooo-kay. I deleted the link to the SCL modeler pages, and NOW I'd like to look. Could somebody
send it to me or post it on the list again, please?

TIA

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of ed_mines
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:09 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] praise for Mike Brock

Mike that locomotive in SCL modeler is terrific. And it's plastic.

Could you think of some venue where you can explain what you did? The
traditional modeling magazines are apparently persona non grata.

Freight car content - Mr. Brock rules the steam era freight car
discussion group.

Ed


I am not going to type Chips-Ahoy!

gary laakso
 

I will note that Kanamodel Products has an ad for a new stock yard for
cattle in transit. I think that it is a first, the others appear to be for
origination of livestock loads for all of our Sunshine stockcars.


praise for Mike Brock

ed_mines
 

Mike that locomotive in SCL modeler is terrific. And it's plastic.

Could you think of some venue where you can explain what you did? The
traditional modeling magazines are apparently persona non grata.

Freight car content - Mr. Brock rules the steam era freight car
discussion group.

Ed


computer wizard

ed_mines
 

Could some computer wizards please contact me off line?

Ed


Re: Chips

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Mike asked -
What about sheep? Geeez. What color would their chips be?

The chips are more like giant rabbit pellets than cattle chips, and darkish brown, depending on the species, time of year, age of the chip, indoor/outdoor lighting, etc. I've never tried to create a paint to match them but if you are desperate ........................


Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
Home to 4 million people and 40 million sheep


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I use a thin layer of lead sheet on the floor, painted black like the floor. The lighting is
rarely good enough to notice the
floor inside a stock car and besides my eyes aren't small enough to see through the slats.

Malcolm Laughlin
Ah, Malcolm, you're just begging for smart remarks about your beady eyes . . .

From one who should know:

SGL


Re: Chips

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

I grew up forking and shoveling "chips". But there is no way on
earth I am getting into another color discussion!!!

I once saw a UP stock car which had come into Germantown Md on the
B&O with a load of sheep from Cheyenne Wyoming. Wonder what
sheep "chips" looked like? The bill included a separate charge for
cleaning and disinfecting the car.

John King



--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Laramie Larry...who apparently knows about such things...writes:

"Mike, antelope doo-doo looks nothing like cattle chips. I live at
the
foot of Sherman Hill and would be happy send you samples of both -
or
photos, if that would smell better."

Actually, I would prefer that you send the real things rather than
photos to
Tom Madden...he being closer than me...although, now that I think
about it,
perhaps it might be more appropriate to send them to those who are
determined to use color chips in their pursuit of "accurate" paint
colors
from chips. Fortunately, as I've long ago indicated, I don't pay
much
attention to chips. Those preferring to use chips would likely
frown at
photos anyhow, since they corrupt the actual images quite a bit. I
could
come up with a list of those likely interested, I suppose, by
analyzing
recent messages on the STMFC by those who would prefer chips. I'm
certain
that such a generous move on your part would be greeted by great
joy and
thanks by those believing in the value and superiority of chips to
determine
color. Myself? I'll probably just rock along...guessing about the
actual
color as usual.

Mike Brock


Stock pens

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Doug Harding writes:

A railroad stockpen with a history of disease
was avoided by farmers like the plague, with good reason. And railroad
revenues suffered accordingly. So yes they were cleaned.

In my study of ICC valuation reports of RR stockpens, I often saw notations
that showed the larger setups had a hard surface of some sort, which made
cleaning easier. Only the very smallest stockpens and/or the ones that were
seldom used had a "dirt floor".
Hmmmm. The pen I modeled is actually quite small. In fact, the real one I modeled was at Sherman, itself. Another was at Hermosa but since I modeled Buford [ population of one...the station agent ], I exercised modeler's license and moved it there.

Out west,
where it is dryer, I suspect you see more "dirt floors".
I had assumed as much but now I guess I'll have to take another look.
Rural stockpens, esp. here in the
Midwest, received livestock as well as shipped them out.
Now here you raise an interesting point. As far as I can figure it, I think the small pens on Sherman Hill were for shipping rather than receiving although I wouldn't bet much on it. One rather odity is a photo in Turbines Westward showing a turbine switching the Hermosa pen. For those that don't know, swiching with a turbine would be about as economical as using one of those open pit drag cranes to pull a box car. The turbine was basically a zero or a one...off or full bore. Anyhow, the Sherman pen could handle 28 cattle, horses, hogs or sheep, had one chute and no water. This last part is important because, obviously, stock trains were not stopped there for cooling with water. Incidentally, the Laramie pens could handle 760 cattle or 1046 hogs or sheep. Those pens had 29 loading chutes.

Mike Brock


Re: Chips

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Mike, you asked if the stockpens/stockyards were cleaned very often? Yes
they were cleaned, quite often, and for the same reason stockcars were
cleaned, to prevent disease. A railroad stockpen with a history of disease
was avoided by farmers like the plague, with good reason. And railroad
revenues suffered accordingly. So yes they were cleaned.

In my study of ICC valuation reports of RR stockpens, I often saw notations
that showed the larger setups had a hard surface of some sort, which made
cleaning easier. Only the very smallest stockpens and/or the ones that were
seldom used had a "dirt floor". Most were paved with brick, cinders, packed
stone, sand, asphalt, concrete, ties, etc. A porous surface made drainage
easier, a hard surface was easier to scrap clean or hosed down. And if the
pens were not paved, most certainly the alley ways were paved. Any hard
surface that could be scraped off would do. Of course this is related to RR
stockpens in the Iowa/Illinois area which I have studied and where we have
sufficient rainfall to make well used stockpens a soupy mess. Out west,
where it is dryer, I suspect you see more "dirt floors".

Just another little detail to add to your modeling. Get some Holgate
Reynolds brick sheets, cut pieces to line your alleyways. Cover the pens
with your favorite sand or ballast material. Have a shed or old car body for
holding sand and straw for bedding in stockcars (freight car content here).
Hang a few shovels and pitch forks on the shed wall, perhaps a hose coiled
up near by. Make sure some bags of lime are visible, lime was used to
disinfect, and spread it around in freshly cleaned pens. And have a pile of
straw/manure out back, where you put it after mucking out the pens. You
might want to place some smaller piles of used looking sand/straw (you
figure out the correct color) near the tracks where a car may have been
cleaned out after unloading livestock. Rural stockpens, esp. here in the
Midwest, received livestock as well as shipped them out.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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10:06 AM


Re: Chips

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Laramie Larry...who apparently knows about such things...writes:

"Mike, antelope doo-doo looks nothing like cattle chips. I live at the
foot of Sherman Hill and would be happy send you samples of both - or
photos, if that would smell better."

Actually, I would prefer that you send the real things rather than photos to Tom Madden...he being closer than me...although, now that I think about it, perhaps it might be more appropriate to send them to those who are determined to use color chips in their pursuit of "accurate" paint colors from chips. Fortunately, as I've long ago indicated, I don't pay much attention to chips. Those preferring to use chips would likely frown at photos anyhow, since they corrupt the actual images quite a bit. I could come up with a list of those likely interested, I suppose, by analyzing recent messages on the STMFC by those who would prefer chips. I'm certain that such a generous move on your part would be greeted by great joy and thanks by those believing in the value and superiority of chips to determine color. Myself? I'll probably just rock along...guessing about the actual color as usual.

Mike Brock

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