Date   

Per Diem and Demurrage

Peter Weiglin
 

So let's see if we have this straight, for the non-expert:

Per Diem is the fee that railroads pay to each other for the use of cars owned by the payee railroad. In the STMFC days, that was $2.00 per day. The paperwork must have been fascinating in the pre-computer age; calculating how much railroad A owed to Railroads B through Z for the cars on Railroad A's property.

Demurrage is the fee that customers who receive shipments pay to the delivering railroad if they keep a freight car for longer than the "grace period" for unloading.

Two different terms, often mistakenly used interchangeably.

Peter Weiglin
Amelia, OH


Re: Per Diem

Guy Wilber
 

Tony Thompson wrote:

But remember, in the steam era most of us are interested in, it was $2 a
day.

Nov. 1, 1920 $1.00 per day
Feb. 1, 1945 $1.15
Jun. 1, 1947 $1.25
Sept. 1, 1947 $1.50
Nov. 1, 1949 $1.75
May 1, 1952 $2.00
Aug. 1, 1953 $2.40

Between May 1, 1935, and June 30, 1937, The so-called "Average Per Diem
Plan" was in effect for box cars (XM). More fully covered in various
publications including the Freight Traffic Red Book which lists the Per Diem and
Demurrage Rules and Penalties.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
West Bend, WI





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Re: WWII War bond cars

Mark Mathu
 

George W Simmons wrote:

While not a freight cars, I have seen a picture of a KCS locomotive
with a buy war bonds painted on the tender.
Likewise, the tender of GB&W #401 (2-8-0) had "BUY WAR BONDS" on its
sides during the war.
__________
Mark Mathu
Whitefish Bay, Wis.


Re: Per Diem

Bill Vaughn
 

Remember the car only had to be placed and offed for
interchange to get it off you per diem.

Bill Vaughn


--- Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson
<thompson@...> wrote:


Yes, the midnight rule did apply, but no
one made "special"
midnight moves if they cost much extra; you were
only saving a few
dollars. Of course, if cars were to move to an
interchange track
sometime during the night anyway, you would try
and schedule it for
pre-midnight if it was convenient. But I think
modelers tend to greatly
exaggerate the importance of this detail.
Not exactly true, Tony, although likely more common
on small roads
where car hire was a greater portion of expenses,
and managing it was
easier to do...

For may years the South Shore (C.S.S.& S.B.) ran a
nightly freight
that was known as the "Per diem" Called at Shops
(Michigan City, IN)
in the late evening, its job was to run west to
Burnham Yard just over
the state line in Illinois, gather up all the "east"
cars that the
other industry jobs had brought in throughout the
day, then run like
the wind to have them on the NYC interchange before
midnight. The
South Shore was, of course, relying on the fact that
it's larger
connections couldn't manage their delivery times as
closely to keep
the number of foreign road cars on their line at
midnight lower that
was average during the day, and thus pay less than
their full share of
car hire.

Dennis




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Re: WWII War bond cars

Merlyn Lauber
 

Also a PRR X-29 was produced by Middle Division/Atlas O with Buy War Bonds lettering above the reporting marks.

Merlyn Lauber

----- Original Message -----
From: eabracher@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: WWII War bond cars


In case no one listed them. Pacific Electric had cars painted for buying
war bonds.

eric

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Re: WWII War bond cars

Larry Smith
 

Several Railroads had "Buy War bonds" on their cars, although not preelant as the Santa Fe, C&EI and PRR. In addition PRR and Interstate had Coal goes to War on their hopper. Swift had three Buy War Bond cars and the Virginian, while had the Minuteman with buy war bonds steciled on the doors of their BX-10 boxcars.

Larry Smith


Re: CB&Q Rolling Stock

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Armand

"Everywhere West" was first applied in 1937.

Regards

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "armprem1" <armprem@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:58 PM
Subject: [STMFC] CB&Q Rolling Stock


When was the slogan" Everywhere West" first applied to CB&Q rolling
stock? Armand Premo




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CB&Q Rolling Stock

armprem
 

When was the slogan" Everywhere West" first applied to CB&Q rolling
stock? Armand Premo


Re: Per Diem

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Uh, Tony, let's remember what $2.00 was then. It was a LOT more than $2.00 today. A LOT more. A couple hundred cars, thousands over a large railroad, that was Real Money then.
Actually, I know quite well, Schuyler, as when I was doing the PFE book I had the thought to convert all car costs to "current" dollars. This is of course not straightforward and in any case would only apply as of the year of completing the book, so I gave it up; but in the meantime learned a lot about relative rates of inflation in various eras and the conversion to the present day.
As I said from the beginning, of course it you were transferring cars to an interchange at night anyway, you would try and do so before midnight. But calling an extra crew or otherwise changing work patterns, where extra costs are incurred to save that "Real Money," wasn't done. Employees of that day will tell you the same.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Dollar value

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Richard

The reduced value of the dollar (and increase in the price of imported kits/RTR) could be the encouragement needed to stimulate local model manufacturing industry. It also makes my next trip to the BRHS Annual Meet more affordable!

Merry Christmas and try to have a great New Year

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland
(where the NZ $ is only worth US $0-70)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Per Diem

Yeah, Schuyler, but at the rate the dollar is going down the drain
relative to almost anyone else's currency, $2.00 will soon be worth
about what it was in the 1940s thanks to....
And you can bet that the cost of
model railroad stuff that's made overseas will go up substantially in
2008 as the dollar continues its free fall >
On that happy note, Merry Holiday of your Choice to all.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: WWII War bond cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

The Santa Fe Painting and Lettering Guide details the Buy War Bonds on ATSF cars. There is a 1945 photo of BX-36 #149149. Another photo in the Santa Fe Modeler shows 148447, also a BX-36, with the slogan. The painting began in September of 1942. 368 cars, all BX-36, received the treatment. An order issued March 11, 1947 was to remove the slogan when the cars came through for painting. "It is safe to assume that some BX-36s survived at least into the early 50s with their.... slogans intact." Athearn produced two numbers of their ATSF box cars with Buy War Bonds on them.


______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: WWII War bond cars


--- In STMFC@..., "Michael Bishop" <goldrod_1@...> asked:
Did any other railroads have cars with "Buy War Bonds" slogans?

I have photos of a red, white & blue Swifts reefer which I think has
that slogan, A URTX R,W,& B URTX tank car possibly with that slogan and
a R,W & B Erie 4900 series caboose which may have had the slogan.

Ed


Re: Per Diem

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 25, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Uh, Tony, let's remember what $2.00 was then. It was a LOT more than
$2.00 today. A LOT more. A
couple hundred cars, thousands over a large railroad, that was Real
Money then.
Yeah, Schuyler, but at the rate the dollar is going down the drain
relative to almost anyone else's currency, $2.00 will soon be worth
about what it was in the 1940s thanks to....well, I won't got there
lest Mike throws me in the clink for getting political. During just
two weeks when we were in Italy in late September and early October,
the $ lost almost 10% vs. the Euro; every time we went to an ATM, it
cost more to buy Euros. European vacations are rapidly becoming
unaffordable for many Americans. And you can bet that the cost of
model railroad stuff that's made overseas will go up substantially in
2008 as the dollar continues its free fall owing to....but I said I
wouldn't go there.

On that happy note, Merry Holiday of your Choice to all.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Per Diem

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Paul Catapano wrote:
Interstate Railroad, I'm told, would collect a group of MTY N&W
hoppers, fill them at tipples on the Interstate's line, and haul them
back off the property before the "Midnight" Per Diem deadline. I know
on some small railroads Per Diem is a large profit item. The late Tim
Gilbert probably could provide statistics.
I'm well aware that plenty of roads had practices like this. BUt
remember, in the steam era most of us are interested in, it was $2 a
day. You can do the math on the "large profit item."

Tony Thompson
Uh, Tony, let's remember what $2.00 was then. It was a LOT more than $2.00 today. A LOT more. A
couple hundred cars, thousands over a large railroad, that was Real Money then.

Christmas Greetings, all.

SGL


Re: WWII War bond cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines
I have photos of a red, white & blue Swifts reefer which I think has
that slogan, A URTX R,W,& B URTX tank car possibly with that slogan and
a R,W & B Erie 4900 series caboose which may have had the slogan.
I don't know about your partic'l'r photo, Ed, but the ERIE did have such a caboose.

SGL


Re: WWII War bond cars

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Michael Bishop" <goldrod_1@...> asked:
Did any other railroads have cars with "Buy War Bonds" slogans?

I have photos of a red, white & blue Swifts reefer which I think has
that slogan, A URTX R,W,& B URTX tank car possibly with that slogan and
a R,W & B Erie 4900 series caboose which may have had the slogan.

Ed


Re: Per Diem

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Tony wrote:

I'm well aware that plenty of roads had practices like this. But
remember, in the steam era most of us are interested in, it was $2 a
day. You can do the math on the "large profit item."
True, although it would be equivalent to around $25 per day today.

YV brakeman Bob Lunoe told me that, when he worked on the YV in 1942, they
would take a foreign box car in good condition and use it for LCL service
along the line (which ran from the SP and ATSF interchanges to Yosemite
National Park and the end of the line). The headend brakemen (which he was)
had to unload LCL along the line from the Local and the cars they liked for
this service had tight floors (essential when using a hand truck) and doors
that were easy to open and close. Photos that Bob took in that year show
nice, new SP box cars being used in this service, spotted right behind the
engine for easy access by the headend brakeman. However, this resulted in
that particular box car spending the night at El Portal at the end of the
line after that run and therefore subject to per diem charges. LCL records
from 2-3 years later show that LCL was being carried in YV box cars. That
suggests that the YV decided it was cheaper to transfer all of the LCL to a
YV box car than to use one of the box cars that it arrived on. At probably
$.50/hour or less for a workman, it would certainly pay to transfer it and
get the foreign cars back to the SP or ATSF...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Per Diem

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Catapano wrote:
Interstate Railroad, I'm told, would collect a group of MTY N&W hoppers, fill them at tipples on the Interstate's line, and haul them back off the property before the "Midnight" Per Diem deadline. I know on some small railroads Per Diem is a large profit item. The late Tim Gilbert probably could provide statistics.
I'm well aware that plenty of roads had practices like this. BUt remember, in the steam era most of us are interested in, it was $2 a day. You can do the math on the "large profit item."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Per Diem

Paul Catapano
 

Interstate Railroad, I'm told, would collect a group of MTY N&W hoppers, fill them at tipples on the Interstate's line, and haul them back off the property before the "Midnight" Per Diem deadline. I know on some small railroads Per Diem is a large profit item. The late Tim Gilbert probably could provide statistics.

Paul Catapano
Littlerock Subdivision
Atlantic Inland Railway Co.

"All it takes to start an insane asylum
is a big room and the right kind of people"


Re: WWII War bond cars

eabracher@...
 

In case no one listed them. Pacific Electric had cars painted for buying
war bonds.

eric


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Re: WWII Buy War Bonds cars

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Hi, I have a kit of a C&EI Buy War Bonds car (DesPlaines Hobbies
special run S scale)Does anyone how long that scheme possibly lasted
before repaint? Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch

128301 - 128320 of 196914