Date   

Fox Trucks

John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

Anyone know how widely FOX trucks were used and by which roads and during what years? Also, why was their use stopped?


John Degnan
Scaler164@...


Re: Proto West 70 Ton AAR Flat Car, NYC Version

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 11, 2007, at 6:04 AM, Larry Wolohon wrote:

I just bought one of these subject kits @ The National Train Show a
couple of weeks ago. It looks to be a fairly nice model. I uncovered
plans from my copy of Newton's Cyclopedia, but I still have a couple
of
questions:

What trucks did they use, AAR or National B-1 or what?
Early lots 712-F, (NYC 4999300-599) 721-F (NYC 499600-799), and 722-F
(Indiana Harbor Belt 8000-8099), all built by Despatch Shops in
1942-'43, had AAR trucks with Barber lateral motion devices. Later lot
793-F (NYC 499800-500299) built by GATC in 1950 had either ASF A-3 Ride
Control or Barber Stabilized S-2 trucks.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Box Cars In Grain Service

Tim O'Connor
 

Hmm. It is my understanding that grain loading required "Class A" box
cars. How does a RR clerk know that a given car is "Class A" instead of
"Class D" (for hide loading only)?
Jeff, whether or not the clerk knows, the shipper inspects
the car when it arrives, and rejects it if it's not clean
and weather tight.

Rejected cars are something we operators rarely model! :-)
We don't even model the clean-out tracks in the yard, where
piles of dunnage lay for ages. I suppose true-to-prototype
inspection, clean-out, prep (e.g. pre-cool reefers), etc is
discussed on the opsig mailing list...

Tim O'Connor


new Accurail cars

Ray Meyer
 

Anyone want to comment on how accurate these are (recognizing that all the
detail may not be shown)?

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/trainfest.htm

--
Atty Raymond G. Meyer
110 E. Main St
Port Washington, WI 53074
262-284-5566
rgmeyer2@...


Re: contact adhesive in sheets

Norm <ndrez@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Denny's message regarding Barge cement taught me a couple of tricks.
I'm going to get some when my tube of Goo runs out.

In the mid '80s I saw some contact adhesive similar to Goo in sheets,
layered between 2 sheets of backing paper. My employer had them die cut.

The operator would peel of one side, put the adhesive in place, burnish
it and then peel off the other paper backing. We were laminating 2
sheets together. The second sheet would be alligned with the the first
sheet and then the assembly was burinshed again.

I always thought this would be great for gluing photoetched roof walks
in place.

Does anyone know where you can get small quantities of this material?

Ed
1. I picked up something like that at my local Michael's crafts store. The manufacturer is Therm-O-Web and it's called "Mounting Adhesive". It's a double-sided adhesive sheet with a paper layer protecting each surface.

2. Woodworkers use a thermal glue all the time to attach verniers. Possibly too thick for model use and requiring more heat than most plastic models could withstand, it's activated with an ordinary household iron (not steaming).

3. I use 3M's Super 77 spray adhesive all the time for things like shingles and metal siding so it should also work for photo-etched brass as well. IMHO it's one of the finest spray adhesives sold to the general public.

Norm


Re: Box Cars In Grain Service

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Aug 10, 5:34pm, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Russ_Strodtz?= wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Box Cars In Grain Service
Bob,

Don't really know what you are looking for. Since virtually any 40', 6'
door car could
be used for bulk grain I don't see where there would be any external
markings.

Hmm. It is my understanding that grain loading required "Class A" box
cars. How does a RR clerk know that a given car is "Class A" instead of
"Class D" (for hide loading only)?

It seems like a logistical problem, since a car can be contaminated or
otherwise rendered unsuitable for grain loading in a single trip. With a
computer database, this would be easy, but those kinds of databases won't
be available for several decades.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Proto West 70 Ton AAR Flat Car, NYC Version

Tim O'Connor
 

What trucks did they use, AAR or National B-1 or what?
AAR

What color did NYC paint their flat cars in the late 1940's?
the NYC cars were delivered black


Was : Railroad operating round BRONX freight house?

cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
 

Ben:
From north to south in Bronx County on the Harlem Ship
Canal, there were several car float operations circa
WW2. South of Macombs Dam Bridge and Yankee Stadium,
feeding the Bronx Terminal Market was a New York
Central operation. Then immediately north of the
149 Street Bridge was an LV site (with at one point,
a circular GROSSMAC trucking warehouse/transfer
shed structure).
GROSSMAC and I believe PITTSTON,
had contracts to provide warehousing of all
kinds, as well as teamstering to many railroad and
steamship lines. They handled baggage and general
freight at team tracks and piers.
They also had about as crappy looking a collection
of vehicles as one can imagine. Bent fenders were
a perfected art with those guys, who simply whaled
them back into shape and chopped off any
recalcitrant metal. So sometimes they had to invent
headlight bar arrangements, because the fenders were
not usable for mounting same. Two other things were
memorable about them.
When they got through dealing with the latest
patch of mashed metal, they always painted the
remaining piece with new enamel. As a kid, and
today, I still think that wierd. They also had
"whiz-bang" directional arrows, which mostly were
on coal trucks because otherwise the body would
have blocked the other signals of the time. These
were the directional semaphore arrows located high
up, aft the cab doors, that flew up with a bang when
engaged by the driver. Eventually, secondary to
some poor souls getting brained, or worse by them,
they were restricted in the 1960s to non public
ways. Notwithstanding, their scabrous trucks with
weird leopard patches of shiny paint, during
the 1950s-'60s they took over many functions
of delivery and storage that rail and marine companies
had once handled themselves.

On the other side of the bridge, which I believe had
a non perforated ashlar stone abutment was an Erie
operation. If the abutment was pierced by a street
it is possible that they connected, but I doubt it.
My impression is the Erie ran a team track
operation, but they had tracks into and adjacent
to buildings. So they could have had a freight
house at some point. I would assume that post
E-L coming into existence, they would have
merged ops at the better situated DL&W site.

Proceeding south (and now east) we have the two
terminals by the Willis Avenue Bridge that appear
on this map. Namely, the DL&W and CNJ yards with
circular warehousing/transfer units.
By the way, the New Haven had a track in the street
next to the large Railway Express building that ran
into the cross street that the CNJ terminal was at.
I remember it because as a boy my father would
take me for Sunday walks into places like this,
and once the the New Haven had some rickety baggage
cars that were being unloaded into trucks there.
They had blocked the street in question in
the process so I saw that they almost touched the
CNJ side of the street. Whether they connected for
a certainty I don't know.
The next float bridges encountered were the
New Haven's. They were located east of the anthracite
roads facilities on a portion of the water called the
Bronx Kills.
They also at one time had additional float bridge(s)
further east at Oak Point Yard which shipped among
other things railcars of coke produced by Con
Edison, on transfer barges.
Con Ed had a large powerhouse adjacent to Oak
Point Yard,and they received barge loads of
fuel via the Bronx Kills, but if anything they
burned coke.
Some of the coke would have had to come from
Con Ed's giant Barreto Point Gas plant. Probably
WW2 exigencies created these carloads, as Con Ed
normally shipped the gas plant's by-product coke
by barge to their powerhouses. There they produced
smokeless steam generated power, until the coming
of pipelined natural gas, forced the adoption of
coal or oil fired steam generation.

This map has the Major Deegan Expressway (built in
1950-55) slapped over the original so it is not true
to earlier times. Of interest is the Third Avenue
El which had a carbarn reached by spur tracks that
came down to ground level immediately north of its
passage into the Bronx over the railroad trackage
around the waterside. It also had elevated trackage
that continued north(serving E.133 St/Bruckner Blvd.
Station along the way) up to the HUB. After 1955
in order to gentrify the East Side of Manhattan
the city set about tearing down all of the Manhattan
trackage and the Bronx trackage south of the Hub
(central road and transit point in the borough
where: Boston Road, Third Avenue,Willis Avenue,
E.149 Street and Westchester Avenue all junction).
They also whittled down its northernmost miles
over time, and adapted all steel cars for use on
what was a wooden sheathed transit system until
around 1960.

The last player in the South Bronx railroad scene
was/is the spur off the NYC's Harlem Division at E.
161 Street. It ran southeast, in a below grade cut,
to serve the meat packing complex extending from
155 St. to Westchester Avenue along it.
In the seventies the line south of Westchester Avenue
was embargoed, because the police could not provide
manpower to prevent the organized looting of
trains. By the time, post the mayoralty of John
Lindsay, that order was restored - railusers had
vanished. In earlier days it went on from
Westchester Avenue to continue serving
commercial establishments of all kinds - going
under Saint Mary's Park and by St. Jerome's church
in a tunnel.
Around the area flattened by the
Major Deegan, they served many food industry
manufacturers such as - Old London Snacks,
Ward's Bakery, Wise Potato Chips (and several
of their local competitors)as well as ethnic
food processors. They also would have had
connections to the New Haven below 133St.
Breakstone's which was a local firm then, is on
this map.
Sunday, was pretty quiet in this area except
for the passage of the El and the pounding of
the occasional "NY Connecting RR" freights using
the viaduct to the Hell Gate Bridge. The smells
were guaranteed to give a kid an appetite, and
its too bad that parts of that world vanished.
Good-Luck, Peter Boylan

In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:


Andy Miller wrote:
"But its track plan is different (although it could be earlier or later
than the plan we first saw), and the building is shown a circular not
elliptical."

No dice, Andy. You should know better to base assumptions on track
diagrams located on an insurance map. There were only two circular
freight houses in the Bronx.


Ben Hom


Re: Sunshine PRR X29b- 7 or 8 foot door?

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

The kit has an 8' door opening, which is incorrect for Class X29B.
However, this makes this kit a possible starting point for the later
X29 rebuilds; modifications include replacing the side sills, replacing
the early Improved Dreadnaught ends with later profile ends from
Branchline, and replacing the kit roof with an "overhanging" diagonal
panel roof.


Ben Hom
Mr. Hom,
Thank you for your quick reply. It is too bad the kit is inaccurate. At least the car is easily
bashed, however.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


Re: Sunshine PRR X29b- 7 or 8 foot door?

Bruce Smith
 

On Sat, August 11, 2007 1:22 am, gn3397 wrote:
Group,
In the latest TKM, in Mr. Elden Gatwood's modeling article on the
X29b, he states that it
had been "reported" that the Sunshine kit has an 8 foot door, which would
only be suitable
for later rebuilds. My chosen era is September 1949, so I would only be
interested in the 7'
versions. It didn't seem from his article that Mr. Gatwood had a kit in
his possession,
however. I searched the archives, but didn't see these kits discussed.
Does the kit have a 7' or
8' door?

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Robert,

Not exactly either. While the door is definitely too big, it is not a
foot too big. First, the prototype DOOR OPENING is 7' or 8', not the
door. It is modeler's shorthand to describe the door size and
unfortunately, this leads to misconceptions about measurements. The
actual door must be wider to cover the opening. In addition, IIRC, other
postings about these doors indicate that the door has a trim piece that
was not part of the door and can be removed. All things considered, the
doors are about 6" too wide, still a pretty significant error...

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Proto West 70 Ton AAR Flat Car, NYC Version

Larry Wolohon
 

I just bought one of these subject kits @ The National Train Show a
couple of weeks ago. It looks to be a fairly nice model. I uncovered
plans from my copy of Newton's Cyclopedia, but I still have a couple of
questions:

What trucks did they use, AAR or National B-1 or what?

What color did NYC paint their flat cars in the late 1940's?

Thanks.

Larry W


Re: Sunshine PRR X29b- 7 or 8 foot door?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Robert D. Heninger asked:
"In the latest TKM, in Mr. Elden Gatwood's modeling article on the
X29b, he states that it had been "reported" that the Sunshine kit has
an 8 foot door, which would only be suitable for later rebuilds. My
chosen era is September 1949, so I would only be interested in the 7'
versions. It didn't seem from his article that Mr. Gatwood had a kit in
his possession, however. I searched the archives, but didn't see these
kits discussed. Does the kit have a 7' or 8' door?"

The kit has an 8' door opening, which is incorrect for Class X29B.
However, this makes this kit a possible starting point for the later
X29 rebuilds; modifications include replacing the side sills, replacing
the early Improved Dreadnaught ends with later profile ends from
Branchline, and replacing the kit roof with an "overhanging" diagonal
panel roof.


Ben Hom


Sunshine PRR X29b- 7 or 8 foot door?

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

Group,
In the latest TKM, in Mr. Elden Gatwood's modeling article on the X29b, he states that it
had been "reported" that the Sunshine kit has an 8 foot door, which would only be suitable
for later rebuilds. My chosen era is September 1949, so I would only be interested in the 7'
versions. It didn't seem from his article that Mr. Gatwood had a kit in his possession,
however. I searched the archives, but didn't see these kits discussed. Does the kit have a 7' or
8' door?

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND

P.S. You all need to see Mr. Gatwood's X29b (August 2007 TKM), it is one of the most realistic
weathering jobs I have seen. Great work!


Re: Killer Red

Rob & Bev Manley
 

I just recently researched 3M's VHB tape for my job. There are several versions available and thier use is determined by what you are trying to attach. There is a version for PVC ( Sintra) wood, vinyl etc. See 3M's website for the complete listing. I ordered a small roll from McMaster-Carr and it was $15.00 for the PVC and concrete tape. They will tell you to clean both surfaces with Isopropyl alcohol and allow the adhesive to cure 2-3 days for best strength.
For the record. I like Ailene's craft glue for attaching my etched or Delrin running boards to my roofs. The doublesided tape is best for the weights.

Rob Manley

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Burgess
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Killer Red


Tim wrote:
> VHBTape is actually 3M's version of the same basic stuff. Very strong
> bonds from what I saw while watching it demo'ed on Modern Marvels
> recently on the History Channel. Not sure of the composition of the
> killer red, but VHB is like an extremely thick viscous liquid. The
> bond comes from the tape actually "flowing" into the microscopic voids
> and bumps in the surface of the material being mated.

True....Killer Red is Bron's version of 3M's VHBT tape at about 20% the cost
(I seem to recall seeing 3M's tape available on line from distributors at
about $80 for the same quantity.) Although the tape seems thick on the roll,
that apparent thickness comes from the carrier, which is removed, leaving
just the bonding material. The bonding material is about .002" thick. This
type of tape is used in industries in place of screws and other fasteners.
It has a VERY aggressive adhesive.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: FREIGHT CAR DIAGRAMS

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

I agree. I've traded quite a few with Allen over the years. His is probably the best holdings of diagrams in the hobby. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: raildata
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 10:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] FREIGHT CAR DIAGRAMS


Hi Group,

Freight car diagrams are a wealth of information. I have a sizable
collection of them and would love to trade copies/scans with others to
fill in holes.

If anyone is interested in exchanging data please contact me off list.
Steam loco diagram/class books would also be of great interest.

Allen Stanley
Greer, SC


FREIGHT CAR DIAGRAMS

ALLEN STANLEY
 

Hi Group,

Freight car diagrams are a wealth of information. I have a sizable
collection of them and would love to trade copies/scans with others to
fill in holes.

If anyone is interested in exchanging data please contact me off list.
Steam loco diagram/class books would also be of great interest.

Allen Stanley
Greer, SC


Re: contact adhesive in sheets

PaDanby
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Denny's message regarding Barge cement taught me a couple of tricks.
I'm going to get some when my tube of Goo runs out.

In the mid '80s I saw some contact adhesive similar to Goo in sheets,
layered between 2 sheets of backing paper. My employer had them die cut.

The operator would peel of one side, put the adhesive in place, burnish
it and then peel off the other paper backing. We were laminating 2
sheets together. The second sheet would be alligned with the the first
sheet and then the assembly was burinshed again.

I always thought this would be great for gluing photoetched roof walks
in place.

Does anyone know where you can get small quantities of this material?

Ed
Could it also be a photo mounting material? Back when I was
darkrooming it, it was fairly common to have material like that , but
it was heat activating. Which wasn't a problem with the papers and
processes in use then. then in the mid-70's Cibachrome and a few
other "papers" came along that were too heat sensitive to use that
method. I remember a contact material of some kind for mounting
cibachrome but can't remember anything more about it. Likewise, we
now have to have things that can make it through laser printers, maybe
something like that might work???

Just a guess, though

JohnGillette


Re: L&N Livery

Tony Higgins
 

Steven Johnson, resident L&NHS freight car mavin, says that the "Old
Reliable" slogan was adopted in late-1951. This is echoed by Sunshine
Models' PDS for their steel rebuilds kits, except they say mid-1951.
Early fifties photos show fewer of these cars in proportion to other
L&N cars in a train, as only new and repainted cars would have had
this addition. It was generally accompanied by reduced size of the
reporting marks and road numbers.
The Dixie Line came into use when L&N merged with the NC&StL in 1957.

Hope this helps,
Tony Higgins

--- In STMFC@..., "xv_corps" <fortyrounds@...> wrote:

Hello List,

I'm hoping one of the L&N afficianados out there can lend a hand in
the name of authenticity. I intend to decorate a few Atlas offset
hoppers for the L&N.

When did the L&N start applying the "The Old Reliable" slogan?
Also,
did "The Dixie Line" slogan coincide with the same time period? In
the end, I'll ultimately have 4 or 5 L&N hoppers in the fleet, and
I'm
wondering what livery to paint them in to be authentic to the late
40's-early 50's time period.

Much thanks,
Brad Hanner
Modeling the IC's Gruber Line in 1950-51.


Re: L&N Livery

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Brad Hanner writes:

"When did the L&N start applying the "The Old Reliable" slogan?"

In the book, Louisville and Nashville by Castner, Flanary and Dorin, pg 211 shows 2 bay hopper 181606 freshly painted sporting "The Old Reliable" with a reweigh date of 11-51.

Having grown up in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, I can recall seeing many such hoppers at the local power plant. However, I have no clue as to when.

Mike Brock


Re: L&N Livery

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 10, 2007, at 7:14 PM, blindog@... wrote:

Brad "Gruber" Hanner asked:

When did the L&N start applying the "The Old Reliable" slogan? Also,
did "The Dixie Line" slogan coincide with the same time period? In
the end, I'll ultimately have 4 or 5 L&N hoppers in the fleet, and I'm
wondering what livery to paint them in to be authentic to the late
40's-early 50's time period.
Brad,
The slogan was likely first used early 1952 as far as I can determine.
New PS-1 box cars built as late as Oct. 1951 did not have The Old
Reliable slogan. The first order of new cars having the slogan was PS-1
box car series 5000-7199, with March 1952 being the earliest build date
I've been able to document. Thus, the change took place between these
two dates.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

128401 - 128420 of 193654