--- In STMFC@..., destron@... wrote:

ACL 18102 - Excelsior (I have NO idea what this might have been)

Excelsior (wood wool) an Aspen-fiber material similar to wood
shavings, used for packaging and teddy bear stuffing. (Not that I knew
that . . . Google told me. I was curious because Excelsior Mills is a
pretty common place name.)

I recall, as a wee laddie, having a teddy bear with a sort of woody
stuffing.

Walt Lankenau

My first question.

Have looked and read lots of the posts on wine cars , there is a lot of
information.
But where can I find some photos preferably in color of 6 dome wine
tank cars. Would like to paint some in correct scemes.

Thank you
Eddie Stavleu
Australia

Ben Hom wrote (replying to Frank Valoczy):

"Not a ventilated car, but I was also very surprised to notice MDT
5659 with "merchandise," PFE 33196 with "magazines," and WFEX 66159
with "compound" - whatever that might be."

Again, not unusual at all.

Quite true. PFE had a substantial westbound loading pattern of magazines, many from Philadelphia (think _Saturday Evening Post_). This was at least as early as the 1920s and persisted into the 1960s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Thanks for the explanation, Ben, and for the tip - I'm going to go scour
the archives now. Though just before checking my inbox and seeing your
message, I sent a new one in which at the end I concluded they were used
in general service, too.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

I jumped ahead of what I was doing and went through both the 1948 and 1946
lists that were uploaded.

I found no C&O ventilated cars in 1946, but in 1948 there were three:

86812 - merchandise
86522 - clay
86824 - meal

They don't seem to have been too common around the Alexandria, Manassas,
Monroe, Potomac Yard areas in Virginia, as out of 1740 cars listed, only
21 were ventilated cars (VA and VM): the three C&O cars above, plus one
ACL, nine L&N, three SAL and five CG. The non-C&O cars were:

ACL 18023 - merchandise
CG 57180 - clay
CG 57478 - merchandise
CG 57560 - pipe
CG 58048 - merchandise
CG 58156 - meal
L&N 15731 - machinery
L&N 15297 - merchandise
L&N 15737 - boards
L&N 15741 - yarn
L&N 15883 - paper
L&N 16048 - yarn
L&N 16327 - furniture
L&N 98041 - tin plate
L&N 98834 - cement
SAL 28680 - lumber
SAL 89430 - merchandise
SAL 89870 - merchandise

The 1946 list lists 1938 cars, of which only eleven were VA or VM (none
C&O). They were:

ACL 17094 - lumber
ACL 18102 - Excelsior (I have NO idea what this might have been)
CG 56446 - merchandise
CG 55469 - merchandise
CG 56179 - cement
L&N 17718 - ties
N&W 65597 - lumber
N&W 65646 - lumber
SAL 79509 - merchandise
SAL 89024 - clay
SAL 89303 - niter (??)

From all this I would gather that ventilated cars were used in all manner
of service, much like boxcars...

I hope this was at least interesting, if not very helpful. :)

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
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http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

Frank Valoczy wrote:
"I've been going through the spreadsheets uploaded to the group the
other day, of the conductor's book on the Southern in Virginia. I'm
about halfway through the 1948 list, and I've noticed some (to me)
unexpected ladings for ventilated cars.

So far I've found one C&O ventilated car listed, 86812, with a listed
cargo of "merchandise." I have no idea what that might be
specifically, but usually the cargo description is quite
specific. "Merchandise" as a cargo for ventilated cars isn't
uncommon - ACL 18023, CG 57478 and SAL 89870 are also listed with
the 'mdse' abbreviation (for 4 out of 6 ventilated cars listed with
ladings).

Not C&O, but there are some surprising cargoes listed for ventilated
cars of other roads. L&N 98834 has "cement" listed, L&N 15731
has "machinery"."

Not unusual at all. The major attraction of these cars to the roads
who owned them was their versatility - when not used during the
produce harvest, they were definitely put to use as general service
boxcars.


"Not a ventilated car, but I was also very surprised to notice MDT
5659 with "merchandise," PFE 33196 with "magazines," and WFEX 66159
with "compound" - whatever that might be."

Again, not unusual at all. Tim Gilbert discussed all of this at
length when he first did the analysis on these particular
conductor's books. His posts are scattered through the list
archive, but they're worth going through the search results and
reading.


Ben Hom

I've been going through the spreadsheets uploaded to the group the other
day, of the conductor's book on the Southern in Virginia. I'm about
halfway through the 1948 list, and I've noticed some (to me) unexpected
ladings for ventilated cars.

So far I've found one C&O ventilated car listed, 86812, with a listed
cargo of "merchandise." I have no idea what that might be specifically,
but usually the cargo description is quite specific. "Merchandise" as a
cargo for ventilated cars isn't uncommon - ACL 18023, CG 57478 and SAL
89870 are also listed with the 'mdse' abbreviation (for 4 out of 6
ventilated cars listed with ladings).

Not C&O, but there are some surprising cargoes listed for ventilated cars
of other roads. L&N 98834 has "cement" listed, L&N 15731 has "machinery".

Not a ventilated car, but I was also very surprised to notice MDT 5659
with "merchandise," PFE 33196 with "magazines," and WFEX 66159 with
"compound" - whatever that might be.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

"al.kresse" <water.kresse@...> wrote:
Folks,

I'm considering doing an article about ventilated box cars for C&O
History magazine. We've builder's pix but nothing really about their
usage. We see SAL and other southern railroads' ventilated box cars
bring up watermellons up into the late-50s or later, but the C&O
purchased theirs in early-20s and the question is "for shipping what?"
Also, who took care of adjusting the door openings? Would they close
them at nite to keep the contents from freezing?

Also, before the C&O had ventilated box cars, they had fruit cars in
the late-1800s. Were they the same a ventilated box cars?

Al Kresse



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!DSPAM:1291,47bca314227561345912607!

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

Hi Al,

The C&OHS has a photo of C&O 86607 being loaded with what appear to be long, thin, craft-paper wrapped boxes.

The Valentine Museum at the Richmond History Center has a photo of C&O 86989 being loaded (from a horse drawn flatbed) full of brand new 20 or 25 gallon oak barrels with cloth top coverings.

I have absolutely no idea what are actually being loaded into each car. Both images are online at their respective museums. I'll send you low-res versions offlist shortly.

Ray Breyer

"al.kresse" <water.kresse@...> wrote:
Folks,

I'm considering doing an article about ventilated box cars for C&O
History magazine. We've builder's pix but nothing really about their
usage. We see SAL and other southern railroads' ventilated box cars
bring up watermellons up into the late-50s or later, but the C&O
purchased theirs in early-20s and the question is "for shipping what?"
Also, who took care of adjusting the door openings? Would they close
them at nite to keep the contents from freezing?

Also, before the C&O had ventilated box cars, they had fruit cars in
the late-1800s. Were they the same a ventilated box cars?

Al Kresse



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--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
Litchfield Produce Co. of Litchfield, Wis., shippers

of, to quote the lettering on the car side, " fancy eggs, butter,
poultry, canned eggs." (Canned eggs? Say, what?)

Richard Hendrickson

I think they mean "pickled eggs" , which are simply hardboiled eggs "canned" (actually, placed
in glass Mason jars, pickle crocks, etc.) in a brine solution. They are actually pretty good,
especially with beer, but you want to let anyone who has eaten them outgas for about 24
hours before you spend any length of time with them. Like Barge cement, the fumes in
enclosed areas are dangerous.

I wonder if they shipped those in carloads. That is a lot of pickled eggs.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND

Folks,

I'm considering doing an article about ventilated box cars for C&O
History magazine. We've builder's pix but nothing really about their
usage. We see SAL and other southern railroads' ventilated box cars
bring up watermellons up into the late-50s or later, but the C&O
purchased theirs in early-20s and the question is "for shipping what?"
Also, who took care of adjusting the door openings? Would they close
them at nite to keep the contents from freezing?

Also, before the C&O had ventilated box cars, they had fruit cars in
the late-1800s. Were they the same a ventilated box cars?

Al Kresse

On Feb 20, 2008, at 10:44 AM, gdbarbier wrote:

Is there a good match in HO scale for the wooden refrigerator cars
owned by Dairy Shippers Despatch / DSDX? I found a set of Champs
decals, but would like to use them on as prototypical a model as I
can. TIA!

Geoffrey Barbier
Allentown, PA

Basic question, Geoffrey: what period do you model? Dairy Shippers'
fleet varied a lot over the years, as it consisted almost entirely of
second-hand cars. Early in its history, Dairy Shippers actually
shipped dairy products, as I have a poor quality photo (undated, but
probably late 1920s or early 1930s) of a DSDX car with billboard
lettering for the Litchfield Produce Co. of Litchfield, Wis., shippers
of, to quote the lettering on the car side, " fancy eggs, butter,
poultry, canned eggs." (Canned eggs? Say, what?) By the post-WW-II
period, however, DSDX traffic was mostly, if not entirely, beer, and
though its second-hand reefers kept their ice hatches, the bunkers were
removed and they were listed in the ORERs as RBs, that is, insulated
box cars. As his been previously noted on this list, continuing to
call the company Dairy Shippers Despatch, though its main source of
revenue was beer, was intentionally misleading, as cars that were known
to carry beer were chronic targets for pilferage. I have two photos of
DSDX RBs from the early 1950s, and though different, both are former
Merchants Despatch Transportation Co. (i.e., New York Central System)
refrigerator cars. Unfortunately, there are no HO scale kits for
either car, but they are 40' wood sheathed reefers of typical
dimensions and construction, so it should be fairly easy to kitbash one
from a Branchline or Accurail reefer kit. I can send scans of either
or both photos off-list if they would be helpful.

Richard Hendrickson

Is there a good match in HO scale for the wooden refrigerator cars
owned by Dairy Shippers Despatch / DSDX? I found a set of Champs
decals, but would like to use them on as prototypical a model as I
can. TIA!

Geoffrey Barbier
Allentown, PA

Tom,
That photo tells it all. THANKS!!!!
John F. Cizmar

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...> wrote:
John F. Cizmar wrote:

Could anyone tell me where the circulating fans were located on PFE
R40-10 reefers? The Intermountan kit instructions refer the modeler
to prototype photos for placement of Preco fans and drives.

Here's a link to a broadside photo of the fan-equipped R-40-10 at the
Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, CA. I took it in early 1988:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/R-40-10.jpg

Tom Madden






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John F. Cizmar wrote:

Could anyone tell me where the circulating fans were located on PFE
R40-10 reefers? The Intermountan kit instructions refer the modeler
to prototype photos for placement of Preco fans and drives.

Here's a link to a broadside photo of the fan-equipped R-40-10 at the
Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, CA. I took it in early 1988:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/R-40-10.jpg

Tom Madden

The rules regarding subject matter for the STMFC appear to need some "tweaking" so a better understanding of the rules can be provided. Note the STMFC rules:

"The objectives
include the sharing of
information about railroad freight cars including their operation, cargos,
distribution and the various techniques of building
models of them."

And:

"ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES."

Note that discussion about cargos of steam era freight cars is permitted but only subjects directly associated with freight cars can be discussed. These two sentences appear to be in conflict. It appears that discussions about a cargo...oil, for example...would be within scope regardless of the relevence to freight cars. This discussion might extend to the molecular structure of various forms of oil and to its many uses. OTOH, there is a rule stating that messages must be directly associated with freight cars. So...who trumps? Well...that's simple. All messages MUST be directly related to steam era freight cars. Therefore, I am inserting a change in the first rule shown above such that it now reads:

"The objectives
include the sharing of
information about railroad freight cars including their operation,
distribution and the various techniques of building
models of them. Discussions about the cargos of freight cars are permitted but only as they are directly associated with a freight car."

This change should bring the discussions back into the range of scope as originally envisioned by and for the group.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

Could anyone tell me where the circulating fans were located on PFE R40-10 reefers? The Intermountan kit instructions refer the modeler to prototype photos for placement of Preco fans and drives. The photos I have were taken either, prior to the retrofit date (~ 1950) or the angle is such that I can't determine the proper location.
John F. Cizmar


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Richard,
Would one of the Rutland Car Shops Rutland reefers be applicable. They
are available from Bethlehem Car Works.

Charles Hladik





**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
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There are severl different methods of dust control.
One was the salt brine from oil wells used in Mi.
Oil and chip was a heavy oil with a fine rock cover put on top, still used in MI. Many road
were made in IL with this method.
Most of the county garages had oil tanks, many were old RR tank cars on a cement piers.
The cheap stuff was used oil form a gas station. The home owner, I sure at the direction
of his wife and the washing out on the cloths line, wanted the dust taken care of.
EPA was not heard of at this time.
The railroads sill are a mayor hauler of road oils/asphalt, About the only on road business
on the UP in central Iowa is a old tie plant in Tama that is now used to store road
oils/asphalt.
Ron Christensen

I have added a photo to the Misc photo album, of GATX tank car #56810, being
unloaded on the M&StL (location unknown) directly into a truck equiped for
spraying road oil. Photo was taken in June of 1954, on an grain elevator
track. Note the jobber has a portable pump, which has hoses to the dome as
well as the bottom valve.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

No virus found in this outgoing message.
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10:55 AM

I've been using Detail Associates Alco FA/PA Century Type "Lift Rings"
(Walthers Part # 229-1106) as an easy way to model roping staples,
without having to bend them from scratch.

So far, they just "pop" right into the holes drilled on most of my recent
HO resin kit projects.

Nobody has asked yet, but I hope this helps anyway.

John Hitzeman



John Hitzeman
President/Owner
American Model Builders, Inc.
LASERKit (tm)
Our 25th Year!
St. Louis, MO
www.rgspemkt.com
www.ambstlouis.net
www.laserkit.com



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