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Re: IMRC R-40-10 : What's wrong with it? WAS: IMWX
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Poop.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Hawkins The original version of the InterMountain (not IMWX) . . .
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Re: IMWX R-40-10 : What's wrong with it?
IRC and Red Caboose have had problems with reefers.
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IRC R-40-23, first and best of IRC's own efforts (and done very quickly to put the kabosh on Porter's HO R-40-23 although PRS brought out Porter's S-scale version) IRC SFRD reefers (Longs), another good job IRC R-40-10, messed up and reissued as the Premium version, ironic because IRC's first reefer was O scale R-40-10 IRC R-40-25 (Amarillo) required re-tooled roofs, but ends made specifically for this model are still wrong IRC ART steel reefers -- Ed has documented the history of this project that took years to straighten out and meanwhile IRC released inaccurate tooling in non-ART paint schemes (I think Amarillo sponsored these too) IRC FGE reefers -- experts like Bill Welch have expressed disappointment in these models RC R-30-9 real screwup, first car was an incorrect R-30-12 (shorter than R-30-9) that was revised, and finally a new R-30-9 was tooled. But many incorrects kits made it out the door. But at least now we have ok R-30-12 and R-30-9 plastic kits (although Sunshine masters by Frank Hodina are much better) I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the RC HO R-70-15... Tim O'Connor
Kurt,
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Re: IMWX R-40-10 : What's wrong with it? WAS: ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs
Ed Hawkins
On Feb 3, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:
As referenced below.Kurt, The original version of the InterMountain (not IMWX) R-40-10 HO-scale model was distributed to hobby dealers without having been reviewed by persons knowledgeable of the prototype car. Suffice it to say to stay away from any R-40-10 kits that don't say "Premium Line" on the box label. The "Premium Line" kits cost more, but they are the retooled version that corrected a number of "issues" that were inherent with the original tooling. It's possible that all of the non-Premium Line kits were recalled. This debacle, as I called it, caused InterMountain extra work and cost that was completely avoidable had they performed one extra step in their production process. However, I won't dwell on this since company policies and practices are out of scope of this forum. What isn't out of scope was the fact that the original R-40-10 models were substandard. Perhaps Tony will offer his perspective. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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IMWX R-40-10 : What's wrong with it? WAS: ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
As referenced below.
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KL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Hawkins . . . All I want is the chance to review them, and if there are any significant errors, to have them be aware before going into full production (basically to obviate a replication of the PFE R-40-10 debacle). . .
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Delano photos. Hopefully not OT.
boomer44 <boomer44@...>
A.T.
In regards to Delano "darkroom art" I don't think this would be the case. I live and worked in Rochester, NY at the home of the "Yellow Box". Kodachrome processing is quite technical requiring exact temperatures and timing also to include an "exposure" of the film. This is beyond the capabilities of any home user and any but the largest processing labs even today. At the time of the Delano photos I believe only Kodak could process Kodachrome. I see by what others have written here I should include Technicolor as well. Kodachrome is the most stable of all transparency films. You can manipulate the exposure in the camera to lighten or darken the overall color rendition of the picture. Delano could have done this to enhance the color saturation in his photos. National Geographic is famous for doing this. That is why their magazine photos have such intense color. When you shoot a transparency what you see is pretty much what you get. I also thought his photos appeared somewhat dark myself. Then "click" went off in my head. When we look at the Delano photos here we are viewing them as opaque prints and not as transparencies. This might help explain why they appear dark. Compare his B&W to Kodachrome photos for their "darkness" if you will. If he is consistent across the board then you have your answer. I was struck by the overall grimy appearance of the cars. If there was rust, there must have been some ala the X-29 patch jobs, it would be hard to see. Gordon Spalty
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Re: Uploaded file regarding scale dimensions
Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
Nice work, Schuyler. Good to see this formalized. I design in 1:1 and,
for HO, have always used a scaling factor of 1:87.1 That gives a scale 50' dimension as 6.8886337" which is identical to yours to three decimal places. Lest anyone say "what difference does all this make", I have a test shot of Don Valentine's Fowler boxcar body that is significantly undersize because the inexperienced toolmaker thought the third and fourth decimal places were unnecessary. Tom Madden
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Uploaded file regarding scale dimensions
Schuyler Larrabee
Having known for some time that 1:87 isn't really on the money, a friend's asking me about that
motivated me to do the real calculations on 3.5mm = 1'-0". Just how does that work out? The answer is in the file I just uploaded to the STMFC Files section, which is listed as: "Proper HO scale factor.xls" There are two sheets. The first sheet gives the background of developing the factors involved. The second page is a handy chart with all the equivalents in decimal inch form for use with micrometers, which I know many of us use. Since these are available now for around $20-25 for acceptably accurate examples, I think many more people will be using them soon. If the page formatting I assigned to the second sheet holds through the whole upload-to-Yahoo-Files-pages process, then it should print on one page, centered on the sheet. Disclaimer: I believe this to be accurate all the way through. In spited of using Excel, there was some manual entry on this thing. If anyone notes an error, please advise and it'll be fixed. SGL La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!
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New file uploaded to STMFC
STMFC@...
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC group. File : /Proper HO scale factor.xls Uploaded by : angus502001 <schuyler.larrabee@...> Description : Correct HO scale factor and Table of Dimensional equivalents You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Proper%20HO%20scale%20factor.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles Regards, angus502001 <schuyler.larrabee@...>
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Re: Northern Pacific stock car(was weathering)
George Simmons
--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Sandifer" <steve.sandifer@...>
wrote: movements. ______________Also, they were used for hauling cantaloupes and possibly other melon to market. George Simmons Dry Prong, LA
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Re: Northern Pacific stock car(was weathering)
Steve SANDIFER
Roads lined the cars with cardboard and used them for grain movements.
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______________ J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer mailto:steve.sandifer@... Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918 Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417
----- Original Message -----
From: George To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 4:04 PM Subject: [STMFC] Northern Pacific stock car(was weathering) Follow up to an earlier post. In one of my videos on the Northern Pacific (1950's with lots of New York Mills shots) it shows stock cars with the slats filled with what appears to be unpainted 2x4's or 2x6's. I'd wondered if these were used for winter wheat? A comment was made earlier about the NP keeping these cars clean for livestock hauling. Any knowledge of grains being hauled in the cars? Any other road fill in the slats of stock cars with 2 by's? Thanks, George Courtney
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Re: 3 dome tank
Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
Bruce--
A two-or-three-dome resin tank car kit on the shelf? Not likely for me. I've built two resin tank cars so far, with a third from Norwest being heavily resin-bashed into a McColl-Frontenac (Texaco of Canada) car. Bring it on--I bet that I'll find a Canadian or major US car fleet (UTLX, GATX) prototype to suit it. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote: this is a relatively rare car and of course, because of the Athearn car, the3 dome car is alas, a modeling cliche.SC&F. Of course, as a resin kit, it will likely end up on the shelf nextto many other resin tank car kits ;^)
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Re: ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs
Ed,
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There is a good photo of a roof in the Mike Spoor / MS book "CB&Q color Guide..." of a CB&Q HC-1B. It's a Paul Winters on page 82. In the Burlington Buletin No.20 ( Covered Hoppers) also has 3 photos. 1 is from Rod (Bat) Masterson pp 8 and 2 are Hol Wagner's pp18. The earliest cars were built at Galesburg with welded roof panels. That series was 180000 - 180099. The balance of the ACF cars had the desired ribbed roof. Thanks for keeping them honest. We modelers appreciate all youe work. Sicerely, Rob Manley
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Hawkins To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs On Feb 2, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote: > Before I forget, I thought I would mention that Frank Angtead > (Intermountain) did not know about the roofs with seam caps > that were found on CB&Q, AT&SF and other owners ACF 1958cft > covered hoppers. If anyone has good photos (I just ran across > a nice CB&Q example in the MS ATSF Color Guide p.97) of those > roofs I think Frank would like to see them. We might finally > get a correct ACF roof for a number of owners. Tim, Frank generally doesn't know anything (or even care) about the freight cars InterMoutain produces. Nearly 3 years ago (just prior to Marty McGuirk's departure), I sent InterMountain an entire set of AC&F construction drawings for this car. Included were drawings of various hatch configurations, different side variations (i.e., open or closed sides), and two primary roof arrangements (flat roof and roof with seam caps). I was happy to hear that test shots were shown at Cocoa Beach. I have asked (more like begged & pleaded) the production manager at InterMountain for the opportunity to review the test shots for accuracy prior to their decision to go into full production. Whether they will take my offer or not remains unknown to me. All I want is the chance to review them, and if there are any significant errors, to have them be aware before going into full production (basically to obviate a replication of the PFE R-40-10 debacle). I have provided InterMountain with as much of a complete roster of these cars that I can compile based on available data and photographs. I have also encouraged them to consider at least three hatch arrangements, two roof arrangements, and of course the open and closed side arrangements. This is in addition to other details such as locking bar variations. The open/closed sides option appears to be part of their planning, but so far I have been led to believe there's only the flat roof and one hatch arrangement being planned. Perhaps this can be changed to include other variations. I have also offered to assist them with painting specs (to the extent this data is available) on these cars as well offering photos to help with the decoration. On occasion I will call the production manager for an update on the ART reefer project, which continues to languish with unending delays to receive an assembled & decorated pilot model of the 1950 scheme. While I have not yet received a definitive answer to when the ART "phase II" project will commence, I've used the opportunity to ask for updates on the 1,958 c.f. covered hopper project and to continue to remind them of my voluntary offer to review the test shots before the production decision is made. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: Northern Pacific stock car(was weathering)
Mark
The PRR hauled bricks on pallets in there stockcars!
Mark Morgan --- George <gsc3@...> wrote: Follow up to an earlier post. In one of my videos ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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Re: ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs
Ed Hawkins
On Feb 2, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Before I forget, I thought I would mention that Frank AngteadTim, Frank generally doesn't know anything (or even care) about the freight cars InterMoutain produces. Nearly 3 years ago (just prior to Marty McGuirk's departure), I sent InterMountain an entire set of AC&F construction drawings for this car. Included were drawings of various hatch configurations, different side variations (i.e., open or closed sides), and two primary roof arrangements (flat roof and roof with seam caps). I was happy to hear that test shots were shown at Cocoa Beach. I have asked (more like begged & pleaded) the production manager at InterMountain for the opportunity to review the test shots for accuracy prior to their decision to go into full production. Whether they will take my offer or not remains unknown to me. All I want is the chance to review them, and if there are any significant errors, to have them be aware before going into full production (basically to obviate a replication of the PFE R-40-10 debacle). I have provided InterMountain with as much of a complete roster of these cars that I can compile based on available data and photographs. I have also encouraged them to consider at least three hatch arrangements, two roof arrangements, and of course the open and closed side arrangements. This is in addition to other details such as locking bar variations. The open/closed sides option appears to be part of their planning, but so far I have been led to believe there's only the flat roof and one hatch arrangement being planned. Perhaps this can be changed to include other variations. I have also offered to assist them with painting specs (to the extent this data is available) on these cars as well offering photos to help with the decoration. On occasion I will call the production manager for an update on the ART reefer project, which continues to languish with unending delays to receive an assembled & decorated pilot model of the 1950 scheme. While I have not yet received a definitive answer to when the ART "phase II" project will commence, I've used the opportunity to ask for updates on the 1,958 c.f. covered hopper project and to continue to remind them of my voluntary offer to review the test shots before the production decision is made. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Northern Pacific stock car(was weathering)
George Courtney
Follow up to an earlier post. In one of my videos on the Northern
Pacific (1950's with lots of New York Mills shots) it shows stock cars with the slats filled with what appears to be unpainted 2x4's or 2x6's. I'd wondered if these were used for winter wheat? A comment was made earlier about the NP keeping these cars clean for livestock hauling. Any knowledge of grains being hauled in the cars? Any other road fill in the slats of stock cars with 2 by's? Thanks, George Courtney
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Northern Pacific stock car(was weathering)
George Courtney
Follow up to an earlier post. In one of my videos on the Northern
Pacific (1950's with lots of New York Mills shots) it shows stock cars with the slats filled with what appears to be unpainted 2x4's or 2x6's. I'd wondered if these were used for winter wheat? A comment was made earlier about the NP keeping these cars clean for livestock hauling. Any knowledge of grains being hauled in the cars? Any other road fill in the slats of stock cars with 2 by's? Thanks, George Courtney
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Re: Weather Freight Cars
leakinmywaders
--- In STMFC@..., LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...> wrote:
stock cars be painted/weathered? Lou, I asked this some years ago on another list with regard to NP's wooden-side stock cars, and Matt Herson sent a couple of scans of rare interior photos that I believe Rufus Cone had collected (NP 82741 when new in 1936). The interiors of the side slats floors, doors and roof panels of these cars were unpainted, or possibly finished with an unpigmented oil. Only the structural members running the length of the tops of the carsides behind the fascia appear to have been painted, and the roof trusses. An interior car number was stenciled in white over one door opening. The photos are black and white, so the color of the painted members is uncertain, but it looks like it could be fresh oxide red (but can't rule out black). Of course, other roads may have done things differently... Given the use and cleaning regime I imagine the interior weathered to silver gray, with the floor of course going darker and browner from ground-in waste, grime,and straw dust. One can speculate the lower slats might show some heavier bleaching and scale deposits on their interior faces from lime treatment, plus the effects of kicking and rubbing by the guests they confined. I can echo Richard's observation that photos show that NP stock cars, when in consistent use for stock shipping, appeared quite clean. They actually got dirtier when relegated to hay shipping or MofW service. Chris Frissell Polson, MT
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Re: ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs
Tony
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I figure this may be our last chance (in our lifetimes) to get this model done right in HO scale... Of course Sunshine still makes a mini-kit for these roofs so at least resin modelers can get around the problem. Tim O'
Tim O'Connor wrote:Before I forget, I thought I would mention that Frank AngteadThe list of what Frank Angstead does not know about railroads
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Re: ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Before I forget, I thought I would mention that Frank Angtead (Intermountain) did not know about the roofs with seam caps that were found on CB&Q, AT&SF and other owners ACF 1958cft covered hoppers.The list of what Frank Angstead does not know about railroads generally and about freight cars in particular would be a long one <g>, but Tim's suggestion to provide prototype information to InterMountain is a good one. The more information they have, the more information that might possibly some day affect their products. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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ACF 1958cft covered hopper roofs
Before I forget, I thought I would mention that Frank Angtead
(Intermountain) did not know about the roofs with seam caps that were found on CB&Q, AT&SF and other owners ACF 1958cft covered hoppers. If anyone has good photos (I just ran across a nice CB&Q example in the MS ATSF Color Guide p.97) of those roofs I think Frank would like to see them. We might finally get a correct ACF roof for a number of owners. Tim O'Connor
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