Date   

NS lowside gon

seaboard_1966
 

Hey guys, need a bit of help here. WrightTRAK is looking for photos of Original NS low side gons.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Denis Blake
Marysville, OH


Forgot the link

seaboard_1966
 

Here is the link

http://www.ismrif.org/db/showAll.asp

Denis Blake
Marysville, OH


Re: Elden Gatwood, your server is blocking email too

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Tom;



I am sorry! I do not like this set-up.



Try elden.j.gatwood "at" usace "dot" army "dot" mil



And if that doesn't work, let me know and I will speak to IT.



Thanks,



Elden







________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tom
Madden
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Elden Gatwood, your server is blocking email too



Very sorry to take up the bandwith here. Elden, I've tried sending two
emails to your address as listed in TKM, one with an attachment and one
without, both with benign subjects. Both bounced and your ISP says:

The following message to <Gatwood@...
<mailto:Gatwood%40sad01.usace.army.mil> > was
undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.1 User unknown'
Tom Madden


Elden Gatwood, your server is blocking email too

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Very sorry to take up the bandwith here. Elden, I've tried sending two
emails to your address as listed in TKM, one with an attachment and one
without, both with benign subjects. Both bounced and your ISP says:

The following message to <Gatwood@...> was
undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.1 User unknown'
Tom Madden


Re: Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Tim;



You are right. My C&BT X29B has rivets the size of my fist (well, if I was
little, that is).



Elden



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars




The C&BT tooling is pretty crude by current standards.

At 1/18/2008 07:36 AM Friday, you wrote:
Thank you, Carl!

Elden Gatwood
_______________________________

From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Carl
J. Marsico
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:36 AM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars



CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel
cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but
I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico


Re: Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

The C&BT tooling is pretty crude by current standards.

At 1/18/2008 07:36 AM Friday, you wrote:
Thank you, Carl!

Elden Gatwood
_______________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Carl
J. Marsico
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:36 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars



CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel
cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but
I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico


Re: Harold K. Vollrath

Tim O'Connor
 

An important factor in pulling detail out of shadows is
the scanner's "dynamic range". You can find inexpensive
scanners now with a DR above 3.2, which is very good. But
note that DR claims can be deceiving --
http://www.scantips.com/basic14b.html

Tim O'Connor

At 1/18/2008 01:38 AM Friday, you wrote:
I take your points Rufus, My comment arises from my experience with
prints - and scanning them at very high resolution to identify tiny details
in the background - often freight cars in a yard of interest. I have found
that a 30 or 50 year old black and white print will provide a lot more
information when blown up that way than will the typical 8x10 print I buy
from the local archives. I suspect that is simply because they scan at 300
dpi, and it isn't sufficient for those tiny details....

Rob Kirkham


Re: Harold K. Vollrath

Tim O'Connor
 

Rufus, do you know the size (pixel dimensions) of the scans on
the NP freight car CD's? I usually avoid CD's because scans are
often 1024x768 or some other 'tiny' format... (my screen size
is 1920x1200)

Tim O'Connor

To keep this discussion on track with freight cars, it is worthwhile to point
out that many railway historical societies are producing CD's of scanned
photographs. NPRHA is an example
http://www1.storehost.com/stores/xq/xfm/store_id.615/page_id.23/Item_ID.134651/parent_ids.0,0,11/qx/store.htm
http://www1.storehost.com/stores/xq/xfm/store_id.615/page_id.23/Item_ID.151419/parent_ids.0,0,11/qx/store.htm


Re: Harold K. Vollrath

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Rob,

You can get very good detail at 200 dpi in color, and 300 dpi in gray scale. If you have the processor speed and the memory, you can go to 600 dpi, which I believe is what is used for magazine reproduction. A lot depends on your scanner and the size of the negative or print that is being scanned. Most classic rainfan negatives were shot on 616 film, IIRC 2 1/4 x 4 inches or so. This is about the minimum sized negative for a good scan. Anything smaller tends to come out really fuzzy, especially 35 mm.

The real problem is that most home printers will turn detail into mud. I use an Epson Photo 870, which was once one of the best home ink jets available. My test prints looked about the same at 300 and 600 dpi, so I settled on 300 to save memory. They are good images, but not as good as a sharp darkroom print. I've come to the conclusion that a laser printer would do better, and their price has dropped to about what I paid for the Epson.

If you lose detail with digital photos, you can also gain in the ability to correct flaws like scratches and dust spots that are hard to fix with darkroom prints. It's a trade-off.

A bigger problem seems to be some resistance to digital photos by buyers. If it didn't come from a dark room, some buyers feel the image isn't worth buying. For several years I have tried to sell digital copies of my WP and SN collection, and have been met with stony indifference.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff



Rob Kirkham wrote:

But surely in the process all of that lovely fine detail that one could pick out of a chemical process print is lost on a digital print (unless they are going to huge resolution files)? No?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Thank you, Carl!



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Carl
J. Marsico
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:36 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars



CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel
cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but
I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico

----- Original Message ----
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <Elden.J.Gatwood@...
<mailto:Elden.J.Gatwood%40sad01.usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:24:02 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Guys;

How does the C&BT compare to the Intermountain 12-panel? Is there some
difference that makes the C&BT the only choice for this application?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

____________ _________ _________ __

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jim
peters
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:09 PM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Sorry for the late respose,

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH, 12-pnl
boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit numbers
listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders, grabs,
etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. comFrom <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. comFrom> :
Goatfisher2@ comcast.netDate <mailto:Goatfisher2 %40comcast. netDate> : Sun,
16
Dec 2007 20:35:44 -0800Subject: RE: [STMFC] Boxcar details and paint, series
GN 20500-21449

Mark,Here's some info that may help you out:3) All in this series had the 5
panel Superior Door.5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.6) Yup -
that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.For
references:Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001RMJ - 10/1998 IIRC, the
Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostlyabout a
Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, butmight have
had photos of the 10' 6" car.Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car*
with 4/3/1 ends. Throw awaythe details and replace with appropriate details
from Plano, Branchline,etc. * At some point in the past there was discussion
of Branchline bringing outa 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this
happening, but if it did, itmight well be a better choice.Ping me if you need
more.Best regards,Steve HaasSammamish, WA

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _


Re: Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico

----- Original Message ----
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:24:02 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Guys;

How does the C&BT compare to the Intermountain 12-panel? Is there some
difference that makes the C&BT the only choice for this application?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

____________ _________ _________ __

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jim
peters
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:09 PM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Sorry for the late respose,

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH, 12-pnl
boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit numbers
listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders, grabs,
etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. comFrom <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. comFrom> :
Goatfisher2@ comcast.netDate <mailto:Goatfisher2 %40comcast. netDate> : Sun, 16
Dec 2007 20:35:44 -0800Subject: RE: [STMFC] Boxcar details and paint, series
GN 20500-21449

Mark,Here's some info that may help you out:3) All in this series had the 5
panel Superior Door.5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.6) Yup -
that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.For
references:Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001RMJ - 10/1998 IIRC, the
Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostlyabout a
Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, butmight have
had photos of the 10' 6" car.Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car*
with 4/3/1 ends. Throw awaythe details and replace with appropriate details
from Plano, Branchline,etc. * At some point in the past there was discussion
of Branchline bringing outa 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this
happening, but if it did, itmight well be a better choice.Ping me if you need
more.Best regards,Steve HaasSammamish, WA

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _


Fw: N&W in 1903 -- New Cars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

All,

Here is a posting from the NWHS mailing list that I thought might interest some here.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List
To: N&W Mailing 1List
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:07 PM
Subject: N&W in 1903 -- New Cars


ORDERS PLACED FOR LARGE NUMBER OF COAL CARS
------
To meet the constantly increasing growth of its coal traffic the Norfolk and Western railway has announced that it will build 500 new cars at its own shops, for fall delivery. The cars will have a carrying capacity of 100,000 pounds and will have frames of steel. Double I-beam bolsters and truck frames of the barber* type will be used, with cast steel center plates. The bottom will be constructed of copper. The additional rolling stock will represent an outlay of about $500,000.
Norfolk is one of the greatest coal distributing points on the Atlantic coast, and the trade is rapidly increasing in volume every year. The Norfolk and Western has announced that it will continue to haul cars as the conditions justify. The 500 new cars will be ready for service when the fall activity in shipping begins.

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
July 30, 1903

[*John C. Barber developed the freight car truck that bears his name in the 1890's , and he shortly thereafter founded Standard Car Truck Co., which has developed a much refined version that is available today. The traditional Barber truck is characterized by variable damping, meaning that the snubbing action is load dependent, i.e., the resistance to bouncing is greater for a loaded car than an empty car. The traditional competitive freight car truck has been characterized by constant snubbing force regardless of the loaded or empty state of the car.]

Gordon Hamilton


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List@...
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


Re: Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Guys;



How does the C&BT compare to the Intermountain 12-panel? Is there some
difference that makes the C&BT the only choice for this application?



Thanks,



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of jim
peters
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:09 PM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars




Sorry for the late respose,

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH, 12-pnl
boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit numbers
listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders, grabs,
etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :
Goatfisher2@... <mailto:Goatfisher2%40comcast.netDate> : Sun, 16
Dec 2007 20:35:44 -0800Subject: RE: [STMFC] Boxcar details and paint, series
GN 20500-21449

Mark,Here's some info that may help you out:3) All in this series had the 5
panel Superior Door.5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.6) Yup -
that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.For
references:Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001RMJ - 10/1998 IIRC, the
Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostlyabout a
Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, butmight have
had photos of the 10' 6" car.Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car*
with 4/3/1 ends. Throw awaythe details and replace with appropriate details
from Plano, Branchline,etc.* At some point in the past there was discussion
of Branchline bringing outa 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this
happening, but if it did, itmight well be a better choice.Ping me if you need
more.Best regards,Steve HaasSammamish, WA

__________________________________________________________


Re: Speedwitch web site (Was Athearn C&NW 65 ft mill gon)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Guys;



Sorry for using up your time. My server is blocking access to that site for
some reason. I have tried changing what settings I can change, and no dice.
It must be the Army filter or something. Maybe it is the words "model" and
"witch" in combination....



Thanks for helping,



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
tbarney2004
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Speedwitch web site (Was Athearn C&NW 65 ft mill gon)



--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood,
Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

Anybody else having no luck pulling up Ted's website? Been going on
several
days...



Elden Gatwood

I just tried here Elden, about 6:$5pm Thursday...came right up, no
hesitation.

Tim Barney


Re: SPAM-BL Re: Re: Harold K. Vollrath

Rufus Cone <cone@...>
 

Yes, I too greatly value traditional high resolution silver halide prints, for
example, builders photographs from Alco Historic Photos. Contact prints made
from historic 8x10 negatives have detail that is amazing even under a high
powered loupe magnifier.

On the other hand some of the silver halide freight car prints that I have
purchased over the years are disappointing. Many are still "the only thing out
there" on those cars, though, so the prints can be quite valuable for freight
car research despite the quality.

Either approach - silver halide or digital - can give good results in the right
hands. The right originals of old images are important in either case - good
full-range negatives that were well focused and properly exposed and developed,
instead of poor "thin" copy negatives.

I used to use Kodak Technical Pan film to make copy negatives of historic black
and white freight car photos. The negatives were great, but often it was a
challenge to control tonality in printing. Reflections on the originals also
presented challenges, even with polarized light. It is much easier to copy
prints with a digital flatbed scanner.

The digital scan generally gives you far greater ability to pull out shadow
detail on freigh car underbodies when copying prints that have "blocked-up"
shadows than does copying onto film. Scanning from negatives is always
preferred over scanning from a print; the print always has less range than the
negative unless made by an exceptionally skilled printer.

Also, I second Tony Thompson's remarks that paper and chemical supplies for
silver halide photography will continue to be available for many years.

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT

Rob Kirkham wrote:

I take your points Rufus, My comment arises from my experience with
prints - and scanning them at very high resolution to identify tiny details
in the background - often freight cars in a yard of interest. I have found
that a 30 or 50 year old black and white print will provide a lot more
information when blown up that way than will the typical 8x10 print I buy
from the local archives. I suspect that is simply because they scan at 300
dpi, and it isn't sufficient for those tiny details....

Rob Kirkham


Re: Harold K. Vollrath

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I take your points Rufus, My comment arises from my experience with prints - and scanning them at very high resolution to identify tiny details in the background - often freight cars in a yard of interest. I have found that a 30 or 50 year old black and white print will provide a lot more information when blown up that way than will the typical 8x10 print I buy from the local archives. I suspect that is simply because they scan at 300 dpi, and it isn't sufficient for those tiny details....

Rob Kirkham


Re: Harold K. Vollrath

Rufus Cone <cone@...>
 

All the lovely fine detail that one could pick out of a well-done chemical
process print is _not necessarily_ lost in a digital print. Quite the contrary,
even if you have middle range equipment.

With Photoshop or lower priced image processing, you can "bring up the shadows"
by manipulating "curves" or using "shadow/highlight" commands, revealing shadow
detail that would be lost to all chemical darkroom printers except the most
skilled and dedicated. This can give spectacular improvement in underbody
detail, hopper end detail, etc.

It is widely accepted among very critical fine art photographers that even if
they still shoot negatives or transparencies, color or black and white, and even
if they are still using 4x5 cameras for image capture, that they should scan
their negatives or transparencies and print them digitally. Fine art digital
printing has surpassed the quality of silver halide printing except for very
specialized situations. Fine art digital prints are concerned with the
rendering of detail and smooth tonal variation that we have associated with
silver halid photography.

Digital printers that are far less expensive than a brass locomotive are capable
of exceptional quality. Assuming you already have image processing software for
your digital camera, you can get a scanner and printer capable of this
competitive quality for less that $1000 total for both (not each).

To keep this discussion on track with freight cars, it is worthwhile to point
out that many railway historical societies are producing CD's of scanned
photographs. NPRHA is an example
http://www1.storehost.com/stores/xq/xfm/store_id.615/page_id.23/Item_ID.134651/parent_ids.0,0,11/qx/store.htm

http://www1.storehost.com/stores/xq/xfm/store_id.615/page_id.23/Item_ID.151419/parent_ids.0,0,11/qx/store.htm

I make these judgements after long personal experience with traditional silver
halide photography.

The customers of Jack's high end lab would not accept the change to digital if
improved quality were not provided by that lab after the change. They have to
face their own commercial customers who demand the best.

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT

Rob Kirkham wrote:

But surely in the process all of that lovely fine detail that one could pick
out of a chemical process print is lost on a digital print (unless they are
going to huge resolution files)? No?

Rob Kirkham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Burgess" <jack@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Harold K. Vollrath

I've long used a high-end professional lab for developing slide film, B/W
printing, etc. When I recently took some original negs in to have them
make
prints, I discovered that they had gotten rid of all of the traditional
photography equipment...chemicals, trays, enlarger, etc. Now, if you want
a
print from a negative, they scan the neg and make prints from the scans.
In
fact, if you just want scans on a CD, it is cheaper to order prints and
ask
for the scans to also be written to a CD for an extra nominal charge...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Sunshine kits...

Scott Pitzer
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

Did I really write "...for sell"?
------------------------------------
Last time I looked, the group rules included a section about "items for
sell"-- and Mike didn't seem like he was going to change it (when I
pointed it out.) He had a justification for it... or something.
Scott Pitzer


Re: Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

I do not believe that either. How many 10s of thousand mold makers are there in this world. One could not stop the project> If one wont do it then find a second or third. The person doing the project is at fault.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Jan 17, 2008, at 8:31 PM, SUVCWORR@... wrote:


Tony, I can't argue with that. The die cutter is why we don't have the X29b
and X29d.

Rich


Re: Harold K. Vollrath

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

But surely in the process all of that lovely fine detail that one could pick out of a chemical process print is lost on a digital print (unless they are going to huge resolution files)? No?

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Burgess" <jack@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Harold K. Vollrath


I've long used a high-end professional lab for developing slide film, B/W
printing, etc. When I recently took some original negs in to have them make
prints, I discovered that they had gotten rid of all of the traditional
photography equipment...chemicals, trays, enlarger, etc. Now, if you want a
print from a negative, they scan the neg and make prints from the scans. In
fact, if you just want scans on a CD, it is cheaper to order prints and ask
for the scans to also be written to a CD for an extra nominal charge...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com




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