Date   

Re: Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

 

Not missing; just disconnected at the turnbuckle. Both pieces remain with the car.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 5:23 AM
To: <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

 

Friends,

 

In October 1956 Speas Company operated 11 vinegar tank cars. SVMX 1 was an 8K gallon TM car, while the rest were 9K gallon TW cars numbered 121-130. The reporting address for these cars was a Speas Company office in Kansas City, Missouri.

 

Given that both cars in this photo have their car numbers obliterated, I would suggest they were awaiting scrapping. Note that the car closest to the camera has an additional horizontal brace on the right-hand tank which is missing from the left tank.

 

Wikipedia has a short page on Speas Company at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speas_Vinegar_Company . It is mostly about a factory building in Charlotte, North Carolina (now a brewery). I also found a photo of their KC plant at https://kchistory.org/islandora/object/kchistory%3A103787 . A search on "Speas Company" on that page turned up a whole bunch of other photos of the plant, but sadly no other tank car photos. A google image search found a photo of a Speas plant in Paris, Texas, but it requires a Facebook log-in and I'm not a member.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 10:11 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67531/rec/70

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Not much information on the Speas Company:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speas_Vinegar_Company

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: El Paso & Southwestern Automobile Boxcar 20302[?] (Undated)

akerboomk
 

RE: Early end door box cars

 

B&M car with end doors (12300 series) (with photo)

            https://www.bmrrhs.org/box_12423_series/

 

Built 1908-1909

 

They also had some built 1903 (I don’t have a photo)

            https://www.bmrrhs.org/box_12550_series/

 

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


More on the rapid transition to Dreadnaught ends with W corner post

Eric Lombard
 

Hello Everyone,
 
Follows information suggesting an alternative argument about the driver(s) for the transition from square corner to rounded corner Dreadnaught ends starting 1939. The previous round of discussion seems to have come to rest on the notion that the transition occurred because Standard Railway Equipment changed product design and so subsequent series builds had to accept the new design as if it were forced on subsequent assemblies by lack of alternative. 

Consider the very rapid transition to be primarily a correlate of the availability of a superior design. Square corner Dreadnaught ends continued to be available after the W corner post introduction. In addition, a few other types offered by other manufacturers, for example, those used on the B&O M-55 and M-57 (1700 cars initiated 1940-1941) continued to be available. Choice did exist.
 
On the advantages of the W corner post:
"...corners have been rounded to a generous radius and W-section corner posts applied, this combination functioning to produce action to prevent the sides of the car pulling in under a heavy impact. By actual test at the University of Illinois, this end is 25 per cent stronger than the old conventional type without the round corners and the W-section corner post." Standard Railway Equipment Manufacturing Co. advertisement in 1940 Car Builders' Cyclopedia of American Practice (15th Edition).
  
4-1939:  Recommended use of W corner post by AAR. This recommendation would indicate that discussion and data on the merits of the W corner post are available. I do not have resources to follow this certain possibility. It would be interesting to know about the development and testing prior to the recommendation by the AAR, apparently at the University of Illinois. Where did the design originate? Were the tests sponsored by the AAR? SRE? 
 
Follows is a list of all series initiated in 1939 built with W corner posts. The all-welded and singular GABX #1940 (renum to ATSF 150600) has Dreadnaught 5-5 ends with rounded corners but there is no information on whether it had W corner posts. Paste it up as a puzzle. 

The first series application developed jointly by UP and Standard Railway Equipment Co. 1939[6]-1939[11] , 1200  BLT:
**1939[6]-1939[8] and 1939[10]-1939[11] 187000-187499, Omaha, NB.
**1939[6]-1939[11] 187500-188199, Grand Island, NB.
 
Here are the early series incorporating the W corner post and initiated in 1939. This data was extracted from my box car database that like other lists, spreadsheets, etc., produced by our community is a work in progress (since 1983). Corrections and additions are more than welcome.

Marks Serial Qty Builder Date
GABX 1940 1 GAT 11-1938
O-WR&N 188300-188999 700 UP 6-1939 10-1939
UP 187000-188199 1200 UP 6-1939 11-1939
M-I 4000-4249 250 MTV 7-1939 8-1939
UP 9100-9199 100 UP 8-1939 10-1939
CTH&SE 19039 1 MILW 9-1939
D&RGW 68000-68399 400 PSC 9-1939 10-1939
MILW 19000-19082 82 MILW 9-1939
LAPX 101 1 PSCx-1939
MILW 18000-18999 1000 MILW 10-1939 3-1940
NYC 62000-62299 300 DSI 10-1939 x-1940
NYC 91000-91199 200 DSI 10-1939
D&RGW 65100-65199 100 PSC 1-1939 12-1939
LAPX 102-121 20 PSC 11-1939 12-1939
WM 27501-28000 500 PSC 11-1939 12-1939
NYC 176000-176199 200 DSI x-1939 x-1940
MILW 19083-19187 105 MILW 12-1939 1-1940
PRR 65400-66399 1000 PRR 12-1939 2-1940
 
Cars with square corner Dreadnaught ends continue to be built after 5-1939: 35 series totaling 8416 cars by the end of 2-1942. Soo Line, especially, seemed to be partial to them. Nine of the last 11 series with square corners, 1600 cars built 7-1940 to 2-1942, were for Soo. For perspective, 70,220 cars with W corner posts in 188 series were initiated 1-1940 to 2 1942. The transition was indeed rather fast. However, post WWII, Improved Dreadnaught ends became available and builds using the early standard Dreadnaught W corner design became less common. My data entries encompass new series to 12-1944. A few idiosyncratic 1945-1947 entries, by no means exhaustive, show builds using the standard Dreadnaught round corner as late as 12-1947-1-1948, 500 cars for M&StL by GAT. Are there any later?

I welcome any comments, thoughts or data!
 
Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


Re: Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

Douglas Harding
 

The tank looks like an end fill propane tank.

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ian Cranstone
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 11:14 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

 

On 2021-01-01 22:09, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/60338/rec/17

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Appears to load/unload from the car's end.

Built 1919.

Inflammable stencil.

I don't have any particular information on this car, but based upon the visible stencilled built date of 11/15 on the flat car itself, the most likely source was a CN 651264-651459 series flat car, originally built for the Canadian Government Railways as CGR 26000-26199. I see the "1/19" stencilled on the tank itself, which does provide a possible conversion date – given the unusual design of the tank, I'm inclined to think that it was specially built for this use, although one cannot rule out the possibility that it had been recycled from another use. The most recent reweigh is stencilled as "HQ 12/35", which translates to CN's Pointe St. Charles shops in Montreal.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

 

 

 


Re: Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

mel perry
 

it appears that the cross braces on the
front tank have been disconnected, 
lacking any data on the cars themselves,
agree that they are in a scrap line
;-)
mel perry

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 3:24 AM Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Friends,

In October 1956 Speas Company operated 11 vinegar tank cars. SVMX 1 was an 8K gallon TM car, while the rest were 9K gallon TW cars numbered 121-130. The reporting address for these cars was a Speas Company office in Kansas City, Missouri.

Given that both cars in this photo have their car numbers obliterated, I would suggest they were awaiting scrapping. Note that the car closest to the camera has an additional horizontal brace on the right-hand tank which is missing from the left tank.

Wikipedia has a short page on Speas Company at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speas_Vinegar_Company . It is mostly about a factory building in Charlotte, North Carolina (now a brewery). I also found a photo of their KC plant at https://kchistory.org/islandora/object/kchistory%3A103787 . A search on "Speas Company" on that page turned up a whole bunch of other photos of the plant, but sadly no other tank car photos. A google image search found a photo of a Speas plant in Paris, Texas, but it requires a Facebook log-in and I'm not a member.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 10:11 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67531/rec/70

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Not much information on the Speas Company:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speas_Vinegar_Company

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

In October 1956 Speas Company operated 11 vinegar tank cars. SVMX 1 was an 8K gallon TM car, while the rest were 9K gallon TW cars numbered 121-130. The reporting address for these cars was a Speas Company office in Kansas City, Missouri.

Given that both cars in this photo have their car numbers obliterated, I would suggest they were awaiting scrapping. Note that the car closest to the camera has an additional horizontal brace on the right-hand tank which is missing from the left tank.

Wikipedia has a short page on Speas Company at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speas_Vinegar_Company . It is mostly about a factory building in Charlotte, North Carolina (now a brewery). I also found a photo of their KC plant at https://kchistory.org/islandora/object/kchistory%3A103787 . A search on "Speas Company" on that page turned up a whole bunch of other photos of the plant, but sadly no other tank car photos. A google image search found a photo of a Speas plant in Paris, Texas, but it requires a Facebook log-in and I'm not a member.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 10:11 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67531/rec/70

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Not much information on the Speas Company:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speas_Vinegar_Company

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

Ken Vandevoort <apo09324@...>
 

I worked at my uncle's grocery store while a high school student in the early 60's.  We sold Speas Vinegar.  We also had bulk vinegar (apple cider and distilled white) in barrels for those that brought their own containers.  The concrete floor under the pumps was eroded almost to the steel decking.  That would explain why the car tanks are wood.

Ken Vandevoort
New London, IA


Re: Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

Richard Brennan
 

Possibly a Pintsch gas tank car?
It sure isn't Helium!!!

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

At 07:09 PM 1/1/2021, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)
A photo from the Denver Public Library:
<https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/60338/rec/17>https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/60338/rec/17

Appears to load/unload from the car's end.
Built 1919.
Inflammable stencil.


Re: Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2021-01-01 22:09, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/60338/rec/17

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Appears to load/unload from the car's end.

Built 1919.

Inflammable stencil.

I don't have any particular information on this car, but based upon the visible stencilled built date of 11/15 on the flat car itself, the most likely source was a CN 651264-651459 series flat car, originally built for the Canadian Government Railways as CGR 26000-26199. I see the "1/19" stencilled on the tank itself, which does provide a possible conversion date – given the unusual design of the tank, I'm inclined to think that it was specially built for this use, although one cannot rule out the possibility that it had been recycled from another use. The most recent reweigh is stencilled as "HQ 12/35", which translates to CN's Pointe St. Charles shops in Montreal.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

 


 


Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67531/rec/70

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Not much information on the Speas Company:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speas_Vinegar_Company

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: CN Gas Tank Car 51860 (1937)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/60338/rec/17

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Appears to load/unload from the car's end.

Built 1919.

Inflammable stencil.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Thomas Evans
 

There was a great wooden above-ground penstock outside of Marshfield VT providing water for a small hydro-electric plant in the valley from a pond up on the hill some distance away.
It was quite large, maybe 6 or 8' in diameter and was especially impressive in the winter with giant icicles protruding from all the leaks.
Unfortunately it is gone now, replaced by something modern.

Tom E.


Re: Photo: El Paso & Southwestern Automobile Boxcar 20302[?] (Undated)

Steve SANDIFER
 

This is (was) a Santa Fe FE-K I found in Howard, Kansas, back in 2011. It is no longer there. It was one of 500 from AC&F built in 1909. Yes, that it the original end door.  Original number 8868.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 6:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: El Paso & Southwestern Automobile Boxcar 20302[?] (Undated)

 

Hi Keith,

 

Very nice photo.  I’m pretty sure that’s the first time I’ve seen a wood sheathed boxcar with end doors, or any boxcar with end doors as early as 1914.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

 

From: Keith Retterer

Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 6:16 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: El Paso & Southwestern Automobile Boxcar 20302[?] (Undated)

 

This is what it looked like when built in 1914.


Re: Photo: El Paso & Southwestern Automobile Boxcar 20302[?] (Undated)

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Keith,
 
Very nice photo.  I’m pretty sure that’s the first time I’ve seen a wood sheathed boxcar with end doors, or any boxcar with end doors as early as 1914.
 
Thanks,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Keith Retterer
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 6:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: El Paso & Southwestern Automobile Boxcar 20302[?] (Undated)
 
This is what it looked like when built in 1914.


Re: MEC Rebuilt ARA boxcar - Speedwitch Kit

Paul Bizier
 

Jim:

Thanks - very helpful. This will let me get the underframe detailed and wrap up this kit!

Paul Bizier


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

boro2ang
 

The previous post didn't have a photo attached.

Bryan Borovec


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

boro2ang
 
Edited

As part of my business, I supply a lot of Creosote treated timber, typically for Railroad use but for foundation piling as well.
In Washington State, Creosote piling is no longer permitted in Marine Waters, instead ACZA or Ammoniacal Copper Zinc Arsenate (Chemonite) is specified, if wood rather than steel.
The color of Creosote will vary.
Straight Creosote will be darker, nearly black 
If in solution which means a 50/50 blend of Creosote and Petroleum, the wood will be a little more brown.
See image.

Bryan Borovec 


Re: Photo: El Paso & Southwestern Automobile Boxcar 20302[?] (Undated)

Keith Retterer
 

This is what it looked like when built in 1914.


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

 

Interesting information, William. Thanks. 

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Jan 1, 2021, at 12:04 PM, William Jensen-Frisk <wcjfrisk@...> wrote:

     Another use for the treated pipe could have been for penstocks (water supply) for water powered mills. In the Toledo, Ohio area I have seen Sanborn maps for mills along the Maumee River with the penstocks marked as being made of wood. Keeping a mill going with inexpensive water power would have been practical through the Great Depression. Before large power grids were established post WWII, it was also common for factories to have a large diesel engine generator set if the factory was electric. Some line shafted factories survived into the 1970's. After WWII electric companies offered low industrial power rates to get a big enough power usage to justify nuclear power plants, which were hoped to provide really cheap power. As part of the electric discount program the power company would supervise the destruction of the water turbines or other engine powered generators. 
    It had been cheaper to have workers tend factory electric plants than buy commercially generated power in many cases through the 1940's. Heavy electric usage, like electroplating, often had their own power plants to avoid expensive electric peak charges. 
    A penstock would lead from a water supply, like a canal, to a mill located 10 to 50 feet below the high point with a water outfall into a river or another canal. During WWI one of the Niagara Falls power stations had another penstock built of wood as a wood lined  tunnel to increase capacity without using steel or concrete. It ceased to be used after WWII. The creasoted pipes could have been replacements for a water powered mill with old penstocks. I toured a textile mill in St Catherines Ontario that made athletic jersey material that still had a water powered turbine. W Frisk


Re: MEC Rebuilt ARA boxcar - Speedwitch Kit

James Brewer
 

Paul,

I pulled this kit from my stash (stockpile is more like it) to look at the instructions, which consist of 4 double sided sheets. I've attached a scan of the third page for you; note on the second photo from the top, left hand side, the location of the reservoir and AB valve are shown in black silhouette; It appears these components are located on the MEC car in the space under the door.  Hope this helps.

Jim Brewer

13041 - 13060 of 193601