Date   

Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

branchline@...
 

Tony,

I am considering the origin. Except for the phrase " Plain Keystone (black car) was applied starting in July 1956", which I took to be a reference to equpment not painted Freight Car Color - there was some - I thought Bill's post was reasonably accurate.

I know Bill Navari and trust me, he does know the difference know the difference between a boxcar and a HOPPER. While I can't condone his attack on Ben, the reverse is also true.

And theoretically, THIS thread is still about boxcars, though it seems to have wandered off a bit...

Bill Schneider

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)


Bill Schneider wrote:
> Ok Guys, let's tone it down a bit. This has gotten way off base.

True. But consider the origin.

> Ben - he didn't specifically say "boxcar" in his post, though it may
> have been implied, and circa 1954 would be about right for black
> keystones on, say, covered hoppers, would it not?

Um, Bill, the thread was about box cars. If Mr. Navari did not
know the distinction between box and HOPPER cars, that makes his
information even worse for accuracy.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, a little slack please... this thread is so taut it's gonna snap any second.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

Um, Bill, the thread was about box cars. If Mr. Navari did not
know the distinction between box and HOPPER cars, that makes his
information even worse for accuracy.


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

Tim O'Connor
 

you forgot Chief Bottle Washer ;-)

or to paraphrase a Boston radio station...

Homina homina homina homina homina...

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: <branchline@...>

William F. Schneider/aka. Bill Schneider/aka. Branchline Bill/ aka. O&W Bill
General Manager/Product Designer/Graphic Designer/Marketing Managaer/Janitor
Branchline Trains, Inc.
Manufacturers of little Choo-Choo's.


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Schneider wrote:
Ok Guys, let's tone it down a bit. This has gotten way off base.
True. But consider the origin.

Ben - he didn't specifically say "boxcar" in his post, though it may have been implied, and circa 1954 would be about right for black keystones on, say, covered hoppers, would it not?
Um, Bill, the thread was about box cars. If Mr. Navari did not know the distinction between box and HOPPER cars, that makes his information even worse for accuracy.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

branchline@...
 

Ok Guys, let's tone it down a bit. This has gotten way off base.

Bill - Welcome to the STMFC list. You're suppossed to sign your last name. Ben pointed that out. No doubt you will next time. No need for personal attacks.

Ben - he didn't specifically say "boxcar" in his post, though it may have been implied, and circa 1954 would be about right for black keystones on, say, covered hoppers, would it not?

Tony - Manufacturers goof? Nahh....Really? ;>)

William F. Schneider/aka. Bill Schneider/aka. Branchline Bill/ aka. O&W Bill
General Manager/Product Designer/Graphic Designer/Marketing Managaer/Janitor
Branchline Trains, Inc.
Manufacturers of little Choo-Choo's.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)


Bill:

I think that you missed Ben's point. 1st when you joined this list the
rules were spelled out that you need to include your full name with any
post. Not everybody knows that Bill and BESSEMERLAKEERIE is Bill Navari.
2nd the whole purpose of this list is to disseminate the proper information
not incorrect information. The fact that a major manufacture has printed
the wrong information on his website does not make it correct. I for one
think that you owe Mr. Hom an apology as he is one of the most reliable
people to post the correct information on this list. I have learned a great
deal from his posts.

Paul C. Koehler

_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
BESSEMERLAKEERIE@...
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:03 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

You know Ben Hom, or is it Ad-HOM-inem? Not everyone may be perfect like
you. I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR
products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on
the
website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand.
I
figured it should probably be correct. Just trying to help, you know.

Not correct you say? That's fine, sorry for the error. Does it have to fall
in to a personal attack? Is that in accordance with list guidelines? "Bill"
wasn't enough for you, that you had to flip out over not posting my last
name? Gee, first name, email address not enough? Again, sorry about that.
Didn't
mean to ruffle your feathers. Apologies to the moderator.

For people trying to learn things from these lists, or ask questions some of

you flamers deem too stupid to be asked keeps them from participating in
forums like these. Ultimately, it may keep them from enjoying a hobby well
worthy of their time.

BILL NAVARI
PO Box 643
Oakmont PA 15139
_bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:_bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com_
(mailto:bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com)

Is that enough or would you like my cell phone number also?

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.
<http://www.aol.com> com


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

Barry Roth
 

Dave (or anyone),

Is the reason for using distilled water so that on drying it will not leave a whitish deposit of dissolved salts? Or is there another reason, such as the effect on the decals themselves?

Also, is the alcohol in the fomula below ordinary rubbing alcohol (70% isopropanol), or another kind?

Thanks,

Barry Roth

Dave Schroedle <hummerdaves@...> wrote:
[...]
Future is very easy to use and most likely won't harm your finish.
I have used it a few times with excellant results. I use a mix of
30% alcohol and 70% Future and spray on 3 light coats, let this
dry over night and apply the decals with distilled water only.
After the decals have dried overnight I lightly apply Micro-sol.

Dave S.


.




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Re: Gloss coat for decalling

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Tim,

Looks like you do not have anything to loose here so why not try a light media blast of the heavy area. The stipper jar will still be there if you don't like the results.

Mont Switzer

timboconnor@... wrote:

I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER.
So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this is the
only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly
impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in
moderation!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@...>
Rob

I think Future is gettting to be pretty mainstream. I was firly
sceptical at first but having hads some models completed fora few
years with no sign of yellowing or other advers effects I have started
to use it extensively.

Aidrian



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

BILL NAVARI wrote:
I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on the website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand.
Manufacturers are frequent offenders in this area, BIll, so this is a feeble excuse. And you gave no hint in your post that it wasn't your own knowledge.

"Bill" wasn't enough for you . . .
Read the list rules, Bill, preferably BEFORE flaming a list member for pointing them out to you.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


PRR Plain Keystone Hoppers was Re: Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 11/8/2007 4:00:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
timboconnor@... writes:

don't understand why my message this MORNING did not get through
on this subject. I think PRR built H-39 coal hoppers in 1956 that were
painted BLACK and did not have "shadow keystones" (or if they did, the
car was the same color as the shadow). I think this is clearly what Bill
Navari (or the vendor, probably Bowser) was talking about, even if it was
not a strictly thread-compliant observation.



Tim:

Construction of the first H39 (the only one with a heap shield) was begun in
late 1958. It is listed as a new class in the Oct 1958 ORER with no cars in
service. Nevertheless, it was painted black with a plain Keystone and
Pennsylvania spelled out. IIRC the H37 was the first class of hoppers painted
black as new cars. I can't get to John Teichmuller's book on PRR hoppers at the
moment to check.

Rich Orr



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Bill:



I think that you missed Ben's point. 1st when you joined this list the
rules were spelled out that you need to include your full name with any
post. Not everybody knows that Bill and BESSEMERLAKEERIE is Bill Navari.
2nd the whole purpose of this list is to disseminate the proper information
not incorrect information. The fact that a major manufacture has printed
the wrong information on his website does not make it correct. I for one
think that you owe Mr. Hom an apology as he is one of the most reliable
people to post the correct information on this list. I have learned a great
deal from his posts.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
BESSEMERLAKEERIE@...
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:03 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)




You know Ben Hom, or is it Ad-HOM-inem? Not everyone may be perfect like
you. I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR
products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on
the
website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand.
I
figured it should probably be correct. Just trying to help, you know.

Not correct you say? That's fine, sorry for the error. Does it have to fall
in to a personal attack? Is that in accordance with list guidelines? "Bill"
wasn't enough for you, that you had to flip out over not posting my last
name? Gee, first name, email address not enough? Again, sorry about that.
Didn't
mean to ruffle your feathers. Apologies to the moderator.

For people trying to learn things from these lists, or ask questions some of

you flamers deem too stupid to be asked keeps them from participating in
forums like these. Ultimately, it may keep them from enjoying a hobby well
worthy of their time.

BILL NAVARI
PO Box 643
Oakmont PA 15139
_bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:_bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com_
(mailto:bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com)

Is that enough or would you like my cell phone number also?

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.
<http://www.aol.com> com


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

The current issue of Finescale Modeler has an insert on air-brushing of acrylic paints (but I will still stick with Floquil) and an article on the use of Future. In reading past articles in Finescale Modeler, it seems that Future is the primary choice for plane, automobile, etc. modelers. I haven't used it yet in an airbrush but have brush painted it on just portions of wood models to allow for decaling and it worked just fine. I'm sure that it won't hurt the Floquil. You need to be careful only if applying a heavy coat of a lacquer-based paint (such as Floquil) over an enamel or water-based paint...

Jack Burgess
yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

Tim O'Connor
 

I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER.
So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this is the
only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly
impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in
moderation!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@...>
Rob

I think Future is gettting to be pretty mainstream. I was firly
sceptical at first but having hads some models completed fora few
years with no sign of yellowing or other advers effects I have started
to use it extensively.

Aidrian


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Rob

I think Future is gettting to be pretty mainstream. I was firly
sceptical at first but having hads some models completed fora few
years with no sign of yellowing or other advers effects I have started
to use it extensively.

Aidrian


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem) a final word

Bill Navari
 

Apologies to the group, this was not meant to invoke what his has. The point
I was trying to make, perhaps incorrectly, was lost and the discussion has
veered on an alternate tangent.

The point was, and remains, when someone makes an effort to assist, they
should not be blasted if the infomation they believe to be accurate may in fact
not be. That would lend a wonderful opportunity for those who may know
better to correct and instruct. Not belitte and destruct.

Again, apologies to the group.

Bill Navari



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

Tim O'Connor
 

On the few occasions I have used Floquil for a whole paint job,
I premix Crystal Cote (not Gloss) into the color. IMO this gives
a smoother finish than with the Gloss.

If you want a THIN glossy coat of paint, almost any paint is gonna
be better than Floquil.

I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still
discovering the various paint manufacturers and their products. In a recent
effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the way the paint
went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I need a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

I could have mixed in Floquil's gloss to the base coat but didn't during
this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat of gloss, and
have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be:
1) stick to the floquil products, and use their gloss coat....
2) use testors gloss coat
3) use some other manufacturer's gloss coat
4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading about it on
the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use associated
with other products before soing something that seems as experimental as
using the Future.

Thanks for any comments,

Rob Kirkham


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

Ray Meyer
 

I have used Testor's Gloss coat with good results. Whatever you use, the
important thing is to get a light coat; you don't need much to decal
properly. Use too much and you may get
a yellowish overcast to the paint in addition to filleting issues around
the details.

On Nov 8, 2007 6:47 AM, Dave Schroedle <hummerdaves@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@... <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Kirkham
<rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I need a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)
--
Atty Raymond G. Meyer
110 E. Main St
Port Washington, WI 53074
262-284-5566
rgmeyer2@...


Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)

Bill Navari
 

You know Ben Hom, or is it Ad-HOM-inem? Not everyone may be perfect like
you. I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR
products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on the
website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand. I
figured it should probably be correct. Just trying to help, you know.

Not correct you say? That's fine, sorry for the error. Does it have to fall
in to a personal attack? Is that in accordance with list guidelines? "Bill"
wasn't enough for you, that you had to flip out over not posting my last
name? Gee, first name, email address not enough? Again, sorry about that. Didn't
mean to ruffle your feathers. Apologies to the moderator.

For people trying to learn things from these lists, or ask questions some of
you flamers deem too stupid to be asked keeps them from participating in
forums like these. Ultimately, it may keep them from enjoying a hobby well
worthy of their time.

BILL NAVARI
PO Box 643
Oakmont PA 15139
_bessemerlakeerie@... (mailto:bessemerlakeerie@...)

Is that enough or would you like my cell phone number also?



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

hummerdaves
 

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I need a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading
about it on
the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use
associated
with other products before soing something that seems as
experimental as
using the Future.

Rob
Future is very easy to use and most likely won't harm your finish.
I have used it a few times with excellant results. I use a mix of
30% alcohol and 70% Future and spray on 3 light coats, let this
dry over night and apply the decals with distilled water only.
After the decals have dried overnight I lightly apply Micro-sol.

Dave S.


Re: Gloss coat for decalling

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Rob,
The simple answer is that you can do any one of the four things you've
listed.
In fact I would suggest that you try all 4 and figure out the one you
prefer the best,
For what it's worth I've really come to like the Scalecoat clear
products, both the flat and the gloss.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still
discovering the various paint manufacturers and their products. In
a recent
effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the way
the paint
went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I need
a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

I could have mixed in Floquil's gloss to the base coat but didn't
during
this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat of
gloss, and
have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be:
1) stick to the floquil products, and use their gloss coat....
2) use testors gloss coat
3) use some other manufacturer's gloss coat
4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading about
it on
the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use
associated
with other products before soing something that seems as
experimental as
using the Future.

Thanks for any comments,

Rob Kirkham


Gloss coat for decalling

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still discovering the various paint manufacturers and their products. In a recent effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the way the paint went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I need a glossy surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

I could have mixed in Floquil's gloss to the base coat but didn't during this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat of gloss, and have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be:
1) stick to the floquil products, and use their gloss coat....
2) use testors gloss coat
3) use some other manufacturer's gloss coat
4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading about it on the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use associated with other products before soing something that seems as experimental as using the Future.

Thanks for any comments,

Rob Kirkham

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