|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
branchline@...
Tony,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I am considering the origin. Except for the phrase " Plain Keystone (black car) was applied starting in July 1956", which I took to be a reference to equpment not painted Freight Car Color - there was some - I thought Bill's post was reasonably accurate. I know Bill Navari and trust me, he does know the difference know the difference between a boxcar and a HOPPER. While I can't condone his attack on Ben, the reverse is also true. And theoretically, THIS thread is still about boxcars, though it seems to have wandered off a bit... Bill Schneider
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem) Bill Schneider wrote: > Ok Guys, let's tone it down a bit. This has gotten way off base. True. But consider the origin. > Ben - he didn't specifically say "boxcar" in his post, though it may > have been implied, and circa 1954 would be about right for black > keystones on, say, covered hoppers, would it not? Um, Bill, the thread was about box cars. If Mr. Navari did not know the distinction between box and HOPPER cars, that makes his information even worse for accuracy. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
Tony, a little slack please... this thread is so taut it's gonna snap any second.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> Um, Bill, the thread was about box cars. If Mr. Navari did not
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
you forgot Chief Bottle Washer ;-)
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
or to paraphrase a Boston radio station... Homina homina homina homina homina...
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: <branchline@...> William F. Schneider/aka. Bill Schneider/aka. Branchline Bill/ aka. O&W Bill
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Bill Schneider wrote:
Ok Guys, let's tone it down a bit. This has gotten way off base.True. But consider the origin. Ben - he didn't specifically say "boxcar" in his post, though it may have been implied, and circa 1954 would be about right for black keystones on, say, covered hoppers, would it not?Um, Bill, the thread was about box cars. If Mr. Navari did not know the distinction between box and HOPPER cars, that makes his information even worse for accuracy. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
branchline@...
Ok Guys, let's tone it down a bit. This has gotten way off base.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Bill - Welcome to the STMFC list. You're suppossed to sign your last name. Ben pointed that out. No doubt you will next time. No need for personal attacks. Ben - he didn't specifically say "boxcar" in his post, though it may have been implied, and circa 1954 would be about right for black keystones on, say, covered hoppers, would it not? Tony - Manufacturers goof? Nahh....Really? ;>) William F. Schneider/aka. Bill Schneider/aka. Branchline Bill/ aka. O&W Bill General Manager/Product Designer/Graphic Designer/Marketing Managaer/Janitor Branchline Trains, Inc. Manufacturers of little Choo-Choo's.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem) Bill: I think that you missed Ben's point. 1st when you joined this list the rules were spelled out that you need to include your full name with any post. Not everybody knows that Bill and BESSEMERLAKEERIE is Bill Navari. 2nd the whole purpose of this list is to disseminate the proper information not incorrect information. The fact that a major manufacture has printed the wrong information on his website does not make it correct. I for one think that you owe Mr. Hom an apology as he is one of the most reliable people to post the correct information on this list. I have learned a great deal from his posts. Paul C. Koehler _____ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of BESSEMERLAKEERIE@... Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:03 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem) You know Ben Hom, or is it Ad-HOM-inem? Not everyone may be perfect like you. I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on the website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand. I figured it should probably be correct. Just trying to help, you know. Not correct you say? That's fine, sorry for the error. Does it have to fall in to a personal attack? Is that in accordance with list guidelines? "Bill" wasn't enough for you, that you had to flip out over not posting my last name? Gee, first name, email address not enough? Again, sorry about that. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Apologies to the moderator. For people trying to learn things from these lists, or ask questions some of you flamers deem too stupid to be asked keeps them from participating in forums like these. Ultimately, it may keep them from enjoying a hobby well worthy of their time. BILL NAVARI PO Box 643 Oakmont PA 15139 _bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:_bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com_ (mailto:bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com) Is that enough or would you like my cell phone number also? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol. <http://www.aol.com> com
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
Barry Roth
Dave (or anyone),
Is the reason for using distilled water so that on drying it will not leave a whitish deposit of dissolved salts? Or is there another reason, such as the effect on the decals themselves? Also, is the alcohol in the fomula below ordinary rubbing alcohol (70% isopropanol), or another kind? Thanks, Barry Roth Dave Schroedle <hummerdaves@...> wrote: [...] Future is very easy to use and most likely won't harm your finish. I have used it a few times with excellant results. I use a mix of 30% alcohol and 70% Future and spray on 3 light coats, let this dry over night and apply the decals with distilled water only. After the decals have dried overnight I lightly apply Micro-sol. Dave S. . __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
Tim,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Looks like you do not have anything to loose here so why not try a light media blast of the heavy area. The stipper jar will still be there if you don't like the results. Mont Switzer timboconnor@... wrote: I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER. So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this is the only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in moderation! Tim O'Connor
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@...> Rob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
BILL NAVARI wrote:
I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on the website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand.Manufacturers are frequent offenders in this area, BIll, so this is a feeble excuse. And you gave no hint in your post that it wasn't your own knowledge. "Bill" wasn't enough for you . . .Read the list rules, Bill, preferably BEFORE flaming a list member for pointing them out to you. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
|
|
|
|
PRR Plain Keystone Hoppers was Re: Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
SUVCWORR@...
In a message dated 11/8/2007 4:00:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
timboconnor@... writes: don't understand why my message this MORNING did not get through on this subject. I think PRR built H-39 coal hoppers in 1956 that were painted BLACK and did not have "shadow keystones" (or if they did, the car was the same color as the shadow). I think this is clearly what Bill Navari (or the vendor, probably Bowser) was talking about, even if it was not a strictly thread-compliant observation. Tim: Construction of the first H39 (the only one with a heap shield) was begun in late 1958. It is listed as a new class in the Oct 1958 ORER with no cars in service. Nevertheless, it was painted black with a plain Keystone and Pennsylvania spelled out. IIRC the H37 was the first class of hoppers painted black as new cars. I can't get to John Teichmuller's book on PRR hoppers at the moment to check. Rich Orr ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
Paul <buygone@...>
Bill:
I think that you missed Ben's point. 1st when you joined this list the rules were spelled out that you need to include your full name with any post. Not everybody knows that Bill and BESSEMERLAKEERIE is Bill Navari. 2nd the whole purpose of this list is to disseminate the proper information not incorrect information. The fact that a major manufacture has printed the wrong information on his website does not make it correct. I for one think that you owe Mr. Hom an apology as he is one of the most reliable people to post the correct information on this list. I have learned a great deal from his posts. Paul C. Koehler _____ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of BESSEMERLAKEERIE@... Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:03 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem) You know Ben Hom, or is it Ad-HOM-inem? Not everyone may be perfect like you. I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on the website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand. I figured it should probably be correct. Just trying to help, you know. Not correct you say? That's fine, sorry for the error. Does it have to fall in to a personal attack? Is that in accordance with list guidelines? "Bill" wasn't enough for you, that you had to flip out over not posting my last name? Gee, first name, email address not enough? Again, sorry about that. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Apologies to the moderator. For people trying to learn things from these lists, or ask questions some of you flamers deem too stupid to be asked keeps them from participating in forums like these. Ultimately, it may keep them from enjoying a hobby well worthy of their time. BILL NAVARI PO Box 643 Oakmont PA 15139 _bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:_bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com_ (mailto:bessemerlakeerie@ <mailto:bessemerlakeerie%40aol.com> aol.com) Is that enough or would you like my cell phone number also? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol. <http://www.aol.com> com
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
Jack Burgess <jack@...>
The current issue of Finescale Modeler has an insert on air-brushing of acrylic paints (but I will still stick with Floquil) and an article on the use of Future. In reading past articles in Finescale Modeler, it seems that Future is the primary choice for plane, automobile, etc. modelers. I haven't used it yet in an airbrush but have brush painted it on just portions of wood models to allow for decaling and it worked just fine. I'm sure that it won't hurt the Floquil. You need to be careful only if applying a heavy coat of a lacquer-based paint (such as Floquil) over an enamel or water-based paint...
Jack Burgess yosemitevalleyrr.com
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER. So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this is the only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in moderation! Tim O'Connor
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@...> Rob
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
Rob
I think Future is gettting to be pretty mainstream. I was firly sceptical at first but having hads some models completed fora few years with no sign of yellowing or other advers effects I have started to use it extensively. Aidrian
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem) a final word
Bill Navari
Apologies to the group, this was not meant to invoke what his has. The point
I was trying to make, perhaps incorrectly, was lost and the discussion has veered on an alternate tangent. The point was, and remains, when someone makes an effort to assist, they should not be blasted if the infomation they believe to be accurate may in fact not be. That would lend a wonderful opportunity for those who may know better to correct and instruct. Not belitte and destruct. Again, apologies to the group. Bill Navari ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
On the few occasions I have used Floquil for a whole paint job,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I premix Crystal Cote (not Gloss) into the color. IMO this gives a smoother finish than with the Gloss. If you want a THIN glossy coat of paint, almost any paint is gonna be better than Floquil.
I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
Ray Meyer
I have used Testor's Gloss coat with good results. Whatever you use, the
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
important thing is to get a light coat; you don't need much to decal properly. Use too much and you may get a yellowish overcast to the paint in addition to filleting issues around the details.
On Nov 8, 2007 6:47 AM, Dave Schroedle <hummerdaves@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@... <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Kirkham --
Atty Raymond G. Meyer 110 E. Main St Port Washington, WI 53074 262-284-5566 rgmeyer2@...
|
|
|
|
Re: PRR Boxcars (ad hominem)
Bill Navari
You know Ben Hom, or is it Ad-HOM-inem? Not everyone may be perfect like
you. I got my infomation from the website of a major manufacturer of PRR products. Since the question was asked, I thought the information posted on the website of a major manufacturer would be applicable to the question at hand. I figured it should probably be correct. Just trying to help, you know. Not correct you say? That's fine, sorry for the error. Does it have to fall in to a personal attack? Is that in accordance with list guidelines? "Bill" wasn't enough for you, that you had to flip out over not posting my last name? Gee, first name, email address not enough? Again, sorry about that. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Apologies to the moderator. For people trying to learn things from these lists, or ask questions some of you flamers deem too stupid to be asked keeps them from participating in forums like these. Ultimately, it may keep them from enjoying a hobby well worthy of their time. BILL NAVARI PO Box 643 Oakmont PA 15139 _bessemerlakeerie@... (mailto:bessemerlakeerie@...) Is that enough or would you like my cell phone number also? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
hummerdaves
--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
about it on the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of useassociated with other products before soing something that seems asexperimental as using the Future.Future is very easy to use and most likely won't harm your finish. I have used it a few times with excellant results. I use a mix of 30% alcohol and 70% Future and spray on 3 light coats, let this dry over night and apply the decals with distilled water only. After the decals have dried overnight I lightly apply Micro-sol. Dave S.
|
|
|
|
Re: Gloss coat for decalling
pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
Rob,
The simple answer is that you can do any one of the four things you've listed. In fact I would suggest that you try all 4 and figure out the one you prefer the best, For what it's worth I've really come to like the Scalecoat clear products, both the flat and the gloss. Pierre Oliver --- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote: a recent effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the waythe paint went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I needa glossy surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)during this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat ofgloss, and have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be:it on the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of useassociated with other products before soing something that seems asexperimental as using the Future.
|
|
|
|
Gloss coat for decalling
Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still discovering the various paint manufacturers and their products. In a recent effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the way the paint went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I need a glossy surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)
I could have mixed in Floquil's gloss to the base coat but didn't during this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat of gloss, and have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be: 1) stick to the floquil products, and use their gloss coat.... 2) use testors gloss coat 3) use some other manufacturer's gloss coat 4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat. Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading about it on the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use associated with other products before soing something that seems as experimental as using the Future. Thanks for any comments, Rob Kirkham
|
|
|