Date   

Loaded SFRD's in a UP train / and PFE in SF trains.

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Steve Sandifer" For what it's worth, last week I saw a photo of a PFE reefer (double logo) at a mercantile in Emporia, KS, on ATSF tracks (circa 1950). It had to come from either Topeka, Kansas City, or Wichita on ATSF.
================

Another aspect of those routings that I have not yet seen mentioned on this thread is that cars loaded on SF with a UP destination or on the SP with an SF destination. For example, lettuce alone would have accounted for many PFE's on the SF. The largest lettuce growing areas were the Salinas and Imperial valleys, both served only by SP. Any produce from a SF origin to destinations in NE or WY and much of ID you would expect to see in UP trains.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Looking for Bob Witt

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Bob,

If you get this please contact me at zoe@.... My apologies to the group for this off topic message.

Mont Switzer


---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.


Re: New book: Stock Cars

mjmcguirk@...
 

Wished I'd known people actually paid for old issues of Mainline Modeler.

A few months ago I went through the boxes of these thing that I've moved from one corner of the country to the other and realized that although I'd fallen into the "this is one of the best resorces out there" trap myself I have, with few exceptions, never used any of the information in Mainline to build a model of anything. I kept a few articles which seemed of use (the rivet making article as well as Ben's X-29 piece, and the Lakers series of all things . . . ) and dumped the rest in the recycling bin.

Marty


Re: New book: Stock Cars

Charles Hladik
 

Marty,
You'll probably hear from Ben, NO DASHES in Pennsy classes.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


Re: New book: Stock Cars

Frank Greene
 

<rfederle@...> wrote:
When Mainline Modeler ceased publication I had purchase many backissues. In the process of dealing with them (on many different occasions), I was told that Bob >Hundman will most likely (not definitely) pursue the book publishing portion of the business. That was some months ago and that may have changed.

I would welcome books from him.
They're definitely in the book publishing business: http://www.hundman.com/cgi-bin/viewcatalog.cgi?magazine=book.

I just received the latest: "N&W Steam's Last Stand." Excellent, starting with the 2 photos of a train of loaded wood hoppers and a 4-wheel bobber caboose being pulled and pushed by M class 4-8-0s (one on the point, 2 pushing).

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: New book: Stock Cars

captmix <tamix@...>
 

You're not alone, Ben. They never paid me either for my article on
making rivets.

Tom Mix

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Robert Federle wrote:
"I would welcome books from [Bob Hundman]."

I'd also welcome payment for two articles of mine that he published in
Mainline Modeler, but that looks like it's not going to happen.


Ben Hom


brass car

eabracher@...
 

Currently on E Bay there is a Westerfield model (a brass model) for sale.
Looks to me someone put a brass model in a Westerfield box or did Westerfield
really import one?
E Bay # 300125398300

eric


**************************************
See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.


Re: New book: Stock Cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Robert Federle wrote:
"I would welcome books from [Bob Hundman]."

I'd also welcome payment for two articles of mine that he published in
Mainline Modeler, but that looks like it's not going to happen.


Ben Hom


Re: New book: Stock Cars

rfederle@...
 

When Mainline Modeler ceased publication I had purchase many backissues. In the process of dealing with them (on many different occasions), I was told that Bob Hundman will most likely (not definitely) pursue the book publishing portion of the business. That was some months ago and that may have changed.

I would welcome books from him.

Robert Federle
---- Steve Sandifer <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

I just stumbled across and purchased a new book by Robert Hundman, Stock Car Cyclopedia Vol. 1. The fact that it is Vol. 1 must mean more are on the way.

Since I can't afford to buy everyone's freight car books to get some stock car details, this one looks very nice. The printing is excellent. Included are photos and diagrams of cars from the AT&SF, B&O (Mather), C&O, Frisco, SL&IM, SP, UP, L&N, MP, and NW plus a couple of interesting articles. Paper bound, 96 pages. $30

http://www.hundman.com/cgi-bin/itemform.cgi?idNum=BK001022&ct=1

I have no connection with the publisher.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417




New book: Stock Cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

I just stumbled across and purchased a new book by Robert Hundman, Stock Car Cyclopedia Vol. 1. The fact that it is Vol. 1 must mean more are on the way.

Since I can't afford to buy everyone's freight car books to get some stock car details, this one looks very nice. The printing is excellent. Included are photos and diagrams of cars from the AT&SF, B&O (Mather), C&O, Frisco, SL&IM, SP, UP, L&N, MP, and NW plus a couple of interesting articles. Paper bound, 96 pages. $30

http://www.hundman.com/cgi-bin/itemform.cgi?idNum=BK001022&ct=1

I have no connection with the publisher.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417


Re: Loaded SFRD's in a UP train

Steve SANDIFER
 

For what it's worth, last week I saw a photo of a PFE reefer (double logo) at a mercantile in Emporia, KS, on ATSF tracks (circa 1950). It had to come from either Topeka, Kansas City, or Wichita on ATSF.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Loaded SFRD's in a UP train


Russ Strodtz writes about the lack of loaded SFRD reefers on UP trains:

"Why is that a "Generally accepted belief"?"

It is a theory put forth [ I believe ] by Tony Thompson and supported [ I
think ] by Richard Hendrickson. My frt conductor book for 34 UP frt train
consists between Laramie and Rawlins, WY, in the spring of 1949 confirms
this by showing no loaded and VERY few if any SFRD reefers amid hundreds of
PFE reefers. Scanning all of my library I had been unable to find a single
SFRD reefer heading east on UP tracks. I did find a few heading west [
presumably MT ]. Recently I uncovered two photos with the caption indicating
loaded SFRD reefers in two UP frt trains.

Mike Brock


Kline/Culotta Book

Justin Kahn
 

I finally dug into my pocket and bought the NMRA freight car book (I am caught in a time-warp where $20 for a hardbound, profusely-illustrated, title is a lot of money). Whatever has been said so far on the list about it is true, and perhaps more. My only criticism is that there aren't even more of those kind of views in it. Full of great ideas for future modeling.
What is especially helpful is finding which roadnames actually got to eastern Pennsylvania (e.g., the PE single-sheathed boxcar).
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

_________________________________________________________________
Don�t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/


PFE Book

Justin Kahn
 

If anyone has neither edition of the Thompson et alii PFE book, I probably don't need the first edition, since I bought a second some time ago (after some grumbling on the list). If anyone is interested in making an offer (will also consider swaps for O scale or other books), please contact me offlist.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01


Re: NS 2bay hoppers

cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
 

They served Gulf and Carbon to name two places where coal
was mined. I don't know about whether the era of these cars
would be coincident. Try asking on Yahoo NS group, or at
the historical society's website.
Good-Luck, Peter Boylan

--- In STMFC@..., "Fred Mullins" <fmullins@...> wrote:

Folks,
I got a pair of the new kadee NS(orig) 2bay hoppers with coal
loads. But got to thinking that. I don't remember the NS serving any
coal mines? So I know they probadly had some customers that needed
coal but wouldn't it had come in off-line RR coal cars? Or would they
had sent some of the NS hoppers to be loaded off-line?? I know they
hauled gravel and wood chips in 2bay hoppers but coal?? Can anybody
shed some light on this?
Thanks
Fred Mullins


Re: Unloading Wood Chips - 1956, Part Three, Crown Zellerbach Plants

Rich Yoder
 

Hi Richard,
Thank you for taking the time.
Great job of explaining the process and the problems associated with the
car unloading.

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com


Re: Unloading Wood Chips

Tony Thompson
 

Very interesting reports and photos, Richard. I know that SP and its customers felt that the bottom-dumping option was best for a number of years, though rotary dumpers eventually took over. The roofless box cars were very much of a stop-gap, for SP. I have a number of photos related to this in my Volume 1 on SP gondolas, and photos of the de-roofed auto cars in my Volume 3.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Unloading Wood Chips - 1956, Part Three, Crown Zellerbach Plants

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Richard, thanks, nice job. Hard work with any one of those schemes!


SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Unloading Wood Chips - 1956, Part Three, Crown Zellerbach Plants

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

In this final part we will take a look at the Crown Zellerbach wood
chip unloading at St. Helens, OR and Camas, WA in 1956.

At the St. Helens, OR facility chips were vacuumed out of the cars
with an overhead tube. In the view below two different types of
Spokane, Portland & Seattle Railway wood chip cars are shown,
converted double sheath boxcar SP&S 39010 and an SP&S composite
gondola with side extensions:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/cz-01.jpg

In this view the tube that was used to suck the chips out is shown.
Two men had to climb in the car to manipulate the tube. The top of
the cars had braces to hold the sides together and on the double
sheathed converted boxcar these braces are marked with white marks
along the top. At this time some cars were being equipped with
removable braces but even with this improvement it still took two
men 8 hours to unload three cars:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/cz-02.jpg

To spot the cars a ground mounted winch was used, see below:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/cz-03.jpg

At the Crown Zellerbach unloading facility at Camas, WA an overhead
building was built. An operator in the building remotely controlled
two vacuum tubes with rotating heads that had blades to loosen the
chips:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/cz-05.jpg

As again with the St. Helens facility the vacuum tubes had to be
lifted clear of the side tie braces and the cars were moved with a
winch. At the Camas pit two men could unload 18 cars in 24 hours.

In this last view is a variety of SP&S converted boxcars and drop
bottom gondolas:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/cz-04.jpg

Richard Wilkens


Unloading Wood Chips - 1956, Part Two, Longview Fiber, Longview, WA

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

In part one I discussed the Weyerhaeuser Timber Kraft Plant at
Everett, WA. In this Part Two I'll discuss the Longview Fiber Plant at
Longview, WA. At LFCO in 1956 two types of cars were used, the
converted boxcar design as well as bottom dump gondolas with side
extensions. In the first view is Southern Pacific Gondola SP 350236
along with two other Northern Pacific Gondola chip cars:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/lfco-01.jpg

A view of the unloading pit with overhead crane for raising side doors:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/lfco-02.jpg

One difference at LFCO was the use of two vibrators that were attached
to the sides of the car, one at each end on opposite sides:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/lfco-03.jpg

In this view the load of an NP gondola is shown after 10 minutes of
using the vibrators:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/lfco-04.jpg

At the LFCO facility with bottom dump gondolas it still took as long
as the WTC Everett pit with side door cars but only 3 men worked the
unloading pit as compared to 4 at Everett.

Richard Wilkens


Unloading Wood Chips - 1956, Part One, Weyerhaeuser Timber Everett, WA

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

In 1956 Pacific Car and Foundry produced a study for Weyerhaeuser
Timber Co. on a better method of unloading wood chips. On August 22,
1956 two proposals were submitted to Weyerhaeuser, one was to
manufacture a body with roof and loading hatches to be mounted on a
50' flatcar supplied by WTC for $7,950.00 and the other was the same
except for no roof or hatches for $7,200.00. The proposed car was a
body with one end door with the door end of the body hinged to the
flatcar and the opposite end to be lifted by an overhead crane in
an unloading building.Ultimately WTC rejected both proposals due to
the low costs of wooden cars already in use. A sketch of this
proposal can be found at the link below:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/sketch.jpg

As part of the study Paccar visited the Weyerhaeuser Pulp and Kraft
plants at Everett, WA and the Kraft plant at Springfield, OR;
Longview Fiber at Longview, WA; and Crown Zellerbach plants at
Camas, WA and St. Helens, OR. The following is an overview of the
unloading operation at the WTC Everett Kraft Plant in 1956.

The unloading was done in a covered pit with chips delivered in
converted box cars with side doors. In the photo below a small
Whiting Trackmobile moves two converted single sheath boxcars, with
one of them being Milwaukee Road MILW 273144:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/wtcevt-01.jpg

To open the side doors an overhead crane was used:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/wtcevt-02.jpg

The chips would pack quite tightly in the car so men with rods had
to poke at the stuck load:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/wtcevt-03.jpg

Unloading the chips was mostly done by "rakes" that were connected
by cables to winches next to the car:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/wtcevt-05.jpg

The chips fell into a conveyor which moved them to silos. One of the
problems at this facility was that quite often the conveyor couldn't
keep up with the unloading so crews had to wait for the conveyor to
catch up:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/railsnw/wtcevt-04.jpg

At the Everett Kraft Plant four men worked the unloading but even
under the most favorable conditions it still took 30 minutes per car
with an average being around 35 minutes. Besides Everett the
Springfield, OR operation was very similar.

Richard Wilkens

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