In the Mar/Apr 2007 issue of the B&O Modeler

http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/BO_Modeler_3_2007_MarApr.pdf

There is an article on converting an Accurail reefer kit. In addition to the model shown there is mention that the same changes would make the car suitable for a FGEX/WFEX car. Unfortunately the FGEX example pictured is not the same as the converted model as it has a 6-inch sill rather than the 8-inch sill added in the article.

What are suitable FGEX/WFEX number ranges for reefers with 8-inch sills?

Thanks,
KL

Richard,
How much for the bridge? Garth and I can put it on the old Nelson and
Albemarle right of way !! Boy Howdy.
Chuck Hladik



************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
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"Modern Marvels' on the Discovery channel (or one of the other
educational channels) is running their freight trains program tonight.

I think this is the program showing a yellow SFRD reefer with a map.

There are a couple of other STMFCs throughout the program. I like to
watch the show while doing something else.

Ed

Posted by: "ed_mines"

There are a couple of books of NKP publicity photos with many of the photos taken in the steam era. In the text of onoe of these books it says that most coal on the NKP came from the C&O (at one time the 2 roads were affiliated by a common owner; they even shared offices).

Be careful about believing things just because they are written in books. Errors can be found in even the best researched and written books. In the news media, usually more than 20 percent of what's written about railroads is erroneous.

Just looking at the map of the NKP shows that had to be wrong. It's perpendicular to C&O lines, hardly a logical connection. The W&LE, an NKP subsidiary, served coal mining areas. The fact that they had a common owner has nothing to do with how the coal was routed. The C&O shippers had the right to route over any other railroad they wanted to use beyond Cincinnati, Columbus and Toledo.

NKP had a moderate sized fleet of their own hoppers. Is it possible that their own fleet was used to ship coal for company use?

Not likely. The railroads serving the mines controlled what cars were used. They would have accepted NKP cars for loading only when they had a shortage. And the serving railroads could not have required those cars to be used for coal to the NKp.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

Rather than make responses to all of the posts on this, I'll just summarize my reactions to them.

I believe most of the home heating coal in New England was anthracite, which was preferred because it made less smoke. The closest coal mines to New England were the anthracite mines in the Scranton area. To get bituminous to New England would have been a much longer haul, the nearest being the Clearfield district.

As for marks, originating roads were Erie, DL&W, LV, CNJ, PRR, NYO&W, D&H and RDG, but not B&O. However, since B&O shared it's route to New York with RDG and CNJ, it would not be surprising that their cars would be coming into NE with anthracite. The other highly likely foreign mark from those mines would be NYC.

As for routes and destinations:

- The furthest east junctions of the anthracite roads were Rutland, VT, Mechanicville, NY and Maybrook, NY. That means that all of it had to move on NH, NYC, B&M or RUT, but destinations could be anywhere on CV, MEC, BAR, GT and the short lines.

- Every town in New england would have received anthracite loads as there was a coal dealer in every town of any size - like fuel oil dealers today.

As for that barge coal, it was mostly from bituminous areas, and I believe it went mainly to power plants. It's interesting to note that most of the large power plants in CT and RI and around NYC are on navigable waterways.

One notable exception. When I was a small boy, I would look out of my father's office on the 55th floor of 60 Wall and watch the cars rolling through the CNJ car dumper. Pretty strong evidence of barging of anthracite also.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

Lime or limestone for blast furnaces. We're looking at taking some of that Shenadoah Valley product originating on our Waynesboro Branch going to Hurlin Steel at Charleston, WV. Was it hauled in covered hoppers or open top cars ?

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@ ...> wrote:

Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" >> Malcolm Laughlin wrote: "You would

never see a foreign hopper being loaded on the

C&O or N&W."

C&O ran large numbers of NRBX (the other Berwind, New River Berwind)

on its main to Newport News. IIRC, these were also loaded at coal mines
served by the C&O, not off line mines. Would NRBX be considered
"foreign"?, Or are private owner cars not included in that category?

Bill Williams
============================================

The concept of system and foreign cars applied only to railroad owned cars. Private cars were not included.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

For what it is worth, during the years that I lived on a farmstead in northern Vermont, we heated the house primarily with anthracite from Pennsylvania (supplemented with gas [propane] and wood). Although this was in the years after rail transport, my understanding at the time was that anthracite had been the primary coal sold for home heating for some decades- thus implying coal at one time being shipped into Vermont in Reading or D&H cars.

I have had a LOT of experience shovelling, laying up, and burning anthracite coal- and it was an acquired skill and art. It lived up to its reputation as being a very hot clean fuel, however, and the daily transport of ashes out to coat the public dirt road in front of the house was in fact always very light duty.

Denny

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

Scott;

I have a couple of these, and one in mid-bash, but as a 105. You are
correct; it is a 105 of (I think I am remembering correctly) late 50's
manufacture, and most closely represents an AC&F prototype. I have seen
photos of two actual prototypes that most resemble the model; one painted for
Holly Sugar I believe, and another I can't remember right now. One of these
is in Kaminski's AC&F book. I am not sure what commodity they were built
for, but they were roughly 10.5k capacity cars. The round cornered welded
frame seemed to be AC&F's then-current design "standard", and also appears on
other cars they were doing at that time; however, the model is very crude
below tank level, so you will have to do a good amount of work to re-do it.
The rest of it is pretty usable as-is, with some improvements needed on the
tank hold-downs and (the thing holding me up) a replacement valve casing
platform and railing. A new ladder and handrails would be nice, too.



I have never seen a completed model using this model as a base, but it would
be a nice, unique model of an otherwise unavailable prototype.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
blindog@...
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] old AHM welded tankcar



A while back I picked up an old AHM tankcar that seems to represent a
post-1950 design of ICC105 tank. Welded tank body, very rounded ends,
pressure bonnet (so yes, it's an ICC105), and a full frame with minimalist
detail that looked to be made of an unfriendly plastic. Looked like an ACF
frame design to me, so I compared it to Atlas's 11,000g ICC105 and bingo, the
frames are the same length, although the bolster centers are different.

Anyhow, this thing looks like some MofW tanks that the N&W/NS has, except
they are DOT111 (domeless non-pressure) tanks. Not too hard to kitbash. I was
wondering if anyone knew anything about this model and/or its prototype, or
has attempted a similar kitbash.

thanks
Scott Chatfield

Brian asked:

One question I've had in the back of my mind for awhile now is why both top
and bottom operating lever were manufactured/and bottom
The Type "D" coupler was adopted as standard by the MCB in 1916. The No. 10
contour was adopted as standard in 1918. The design for the 6" x 8" shank
was adopted as standard in 1918.

From the ARA (circa 1919), "The ARA standard "D" coupler makes provisions
for both top and bottom operation, the latter being necessary for cars with low
height of floors from rail and where it is desirable to keep all portions of
the uncoupling arrangement below the floor line."

"In 1919 the Standard for uncoupling levers for new freight cars and
application of new design coupler operating device to existing freight cars must be
of type directly connected to coupler knuckle locking block or locking block
lifter without use of clevices, links, chain or pin and must conform to the
detailed specifications prescribed in the United States Safety Appliance
Standards."

More Later,

Guy Wilber
West Bend, WI






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On Jul 10, 2007, at 9:32 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

One question I've had in the back of my mind for awhile now is why
both top
and bottom operating lever were manufactured/available? It seems to
me top
operated ones were first with bottom operated ones later. What is the
benefit to either type? Ease of mfg? safety?

It's easy, Brian. Top-operated uncoupling mechanisms were used with
Type D couplers, adopted in 1919, which were released by lifting the
locking pin upward from the top. Bottom-operated rotary uncoupling
mechanisms were generally used with improved Type E couplers, adopted
in 1930, which usually were released by pushing upward on the locking
pin (Type E couplers could be, but usually were not, equipped with a
top-lifting locking pin arrangement).

Richard Hendrickson

John King wrote:

Mostly correct for open hearth steelmaking. The primary flux was limestone.

The word "primary" is vital here. We are talking a very large proportion of limestone to lime, the lime being, as you say, only an adjustment. I do have and understand a copy of "Making, Shaping and Treating."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Thanks Guy. I assume that "recommended" is just that because I know some PRR
X26 boxcars were retired in the 1960's still with Carmer levers.

One question I've had in the back of my mind for awhile now is why both top
and bottom operating lever were manufactured/available? It seems to me top
operated ones were first with bottom operated ones later. What is the
benefit to either type? Ease of mfg? safety? This is more of a interesting
but relatively useless factoid that may only interest me but I am curious.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

In addition to power plants along waterways, I know that paper mills
were users of steam coal, and probably this would have come to ports
close to Maine or in Maine itself. At least it does nowadays. There is
a large power plant along the Cape Cod Canal, that gets fuel by water,
but I don't know if it ever burned coal.

Tim O'


Schuyler Larabee wrote

Read the whole sentence Schuyler -- only < > served coal mines
AND (a logical conjunction, you're familiar with it?) [could]
deliver coal directly to NEW ENGLAND customers.

DL&W did not run in any of the New England states. Nor did B&O,
PRR, O&W, RDG, etc.

Tony,

Correct for blast furnace production of iron. Both limestone and
dolomite were used. Depended some on the qualities of the ore and
the intended use of the slag.

Mostly correct for open hearth steelmaking. The primary flux was
limestone. But according the the sales manager at MJ Grove in
Stephens City, Va (one of the lime plants below Winchester) and, more
importantly, the 1951 edition of "Making, Shaping and Treating of
Steel", published by US Steel; burnt lime was used to adjust the
level of flux in the open hearth furnace when a greater amount of
lime than provided by the limestone is found to be needed in the
later stages of the heat. This was one of the uses for the
Youngstown containers which were shipped on gons.

John


--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

John King wrote:

Jones and Laughlin had a quarry at a place called Blairton W. Va

near

Martinsburg which shipped 985 cars in August of 1951. This would

have

been both raw stone and lime . . .

For steelmaking, limestone is used, not lime--for those

thinking

of steel industry shipping.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...

John King wrote:

Jones and Laughlin had a quarry at a place called Blairton W. Va near Martinsburg which shipped 985 cars in August of 1951. This would have been both raw stone and lime . . .

For steelmaking, limestone is used, not lime--for those thinking of steel industry shipping.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...

Garth,

Jones and Laughlin had a quarry at a place called Blairton W. Va near
Martinsburg which shipped 985 cars in August of 1951. This would
have been both raw stone and lime.

Millville, W. Va (about 4 miles up the Shenandoah River from Harpers
Ferry) had three plants, US Steel, Jones and Laughlin and Standard
Lime and Stone which together, shipped 3228 cars in August, 1951. US
Steel was all Dolomite stone, Jones and Laughlin was both processed
and stone. Standard was all processed in one way or another, mostly
to produce products for the steel industry.

There were several smaller plants west (south) of Winchester which
together produced about 600 loads in August, 1951. This was both
lime and limestone.

I don't think there were any traffic patterns which would have put
B&O cars to far from home rails.

John King



--- In STMFC@..., "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

John,

Where were the limestone quarries in the Shenandoah Valley? And

what

time frame. There's lots of limestone there, but I can't think of

any

large quarrying operations served by the B&O or its connections.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

boyds1949 wrote:

Yes. B&O moved a large amount of limestone and dolomite to the

Ohio

Valley from eastern West Virginia and the Shenandoah Valley of
Virginia. Blast Furnace and Open Hearth flux moved in open

hoppers.

Lime and processed dolomite moved in covered hoppers and

containers.

John King

May or may not be germane to recent topics, but some color slides I
took in October 1960 at the Alpha Cement plant on the Delaware river
north of Easton PA show some interesting hoppers. Alpha was a huge
facility at the end of the L&NE's Martins Creek branch, and was also
served by the DL&W (via a branch down from Bangor) and the PRR (from
the Bel-Del division across the river). In addition to the expected
batallions of covered cement hoppers from the three resident lines, my
slides show empty two-bay open hoppers from the WM, B&O, P&LE and
Montour. No PRR open hoppers. Author Robert F. Fischer in ONLY
YESTERDAY ON THE LEHIGH & NEW ENGLAND mentions that both coal and
limestone arrived at Alpha in open hoppers.

Tom Madden

Thanks, Chet, good to have a definitive answer, both for a Lobaugh 65' mill gondola, and some of my remaining RailCraft panelside hoppers (I sometimes think they reproduce in the dark at the back of the train closet, as I am convinced I have finished the last of them when I find yet another one needing detailing, painting and lettering). And I am stuck with the Wabash roadname, as someone (probably Chet) pointed out that the longer panelside twins were unique to the Wabash and its subsidiaries (the New Haven had ONE).
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

Comparing views on the Elwood site with some excellent prints sent me

by

another list member, I had long noticed that the Wabash billboard-

style

roadname on hoppers and gondolas came in two sizes: large and larger

(about

50% larger in the latter from the former). I assume there was a

prototype

rationale for the two sizes, probably correlated with time-frame, but

I've

never found a full discussion of the practice.

The change from 18" letters to 33" was authorized on April 5, 1955 for
hopper cars and gons 52 foot and longer. Cars that received the new
larger lettering were the 37000 series panel hoppers and repainted 52'
and 65' gons. Two other groups of cars, purchased used, just past the
cut-off date for this group, the 11300-11799 series 52'6" Bethlehem
gons from the CNJ in 1962 and the 38000-38358 series H2 class hoppers
from the N&W in 1963, also were lettered with the 33" WABASH.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

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