Date   

Re: Railworks PRR FM Flat Car-Accurate Model?

Charles Hladik
 

Jason,
Can't help with PRR flats but their Rutland milk cars are excellent.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division




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Re: Early SOU Pulpwood Flats

Tim O'Connor
 

The Southwind Models car is definitely an early 1950's prototype.
In fact, it's an EXACT match for the ACL W-4's built in 1952. I have
a builder shot of ACL 72899. From the 1955 ORER:

ACL 72000-73199 (1200 cars), 45'9"IL 9'2"IW, 10'3"EXH

Looking at the 1955, 1959 and 1965 ORER's I can't find any Southern
cars that match these dimensions!! Since the box is labeled SOU/CofG
I am at a loss as far as what Southwind had in mind...

I guess I'll just letter it ACL if I can find decals for it...

Tim O'Connor
------------

Tim,

Thanks for checking. I'm not familiar with the Southwind Models cars-
-what number series are they in? I can check to see if I have any
information on them if I have some details.

Dan Miller


Re: South Buffalo Ry

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

Just out of curiosity, did you find these in the scanned drawing
collection?

Roger Hinman

On Apr 20, 2007, at 6:00 PM, H.T. Guillaume wrote:

Good news! I found the original lettering diagrams for the South
Buffalo Ry twin offset hoppers and for the Greenville gons. I also
have the lettering for the modern gons that the SB rostered later on.
I will notify Kadee. For your info, the correct lettering color is
DuPont No.23-881Dulux Stencil Paste in Yellow. The correct color for
the car body is Tuscan red. This is from Drg E-33601, Bethlehem Steel
Company, Rev A, 6-21-49. Letters and Figures to be block type. Hugh
T. Guillaume, Amherst NY



Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Miles Callan <milesinniles@...>
 

Does anyone have ANY pictures of these sheetrock converted bulkhead flats?
You mention specific #, Rodnames, and even classes, but NO links to
pictures? Anybody?

However, You guys are a very valuble source and I'm QUITE impressed by the #
of responses!


South Buffalo Ry

 

Good news! I found the original lettering diagrams for the South
Buffalo Ry twin offset hoppers and for the Greenville gons. I also
have the lettering for the modern gons that the SB rostered later on.
I will notify Kadee. For your info, the correct lettering color is
DuPont No.23-881Dulux Stencil Paste in Yellow. The correct color for
the car body is Tuscan red. This is from Drg E-33601, Bethlehem Steel
Company, Rev A, 6-21-49. Letters and Figures to be block type. Hugh
T. Guillaume, Amherst NY


Re: Sheetrock

David Karkoski <karkoskd@...>
 

AR Fransler Lumber Company in Rochester Indiana during 1954 received the
following shipments

GTW 515784 Plasterboard

C&O 7418 Plasterboard

C&O 289167 Wallboard

NYC 30640 Wallboard

PRR 25946 Wallboard

NYC 163339 Wallboard

Also included in the shipments were lath and plaster



Rochester Building and Supply received in the same time period:

NYC 117406 Plasterboard

NYC 103445 Plasterboard

NYC 38535 Plasterboard



David Karkoski


Re: South Buffalo Ry

 

The South Buffalo Ry drawings came directly from Bethlehem Steel Company in
1998. We obtained them when I worked at K-Val Hobbies in Buffalo. We had
Third Rail Graphics do three runs of SBRy hoppers for us - nine number, 300
cars, plus one run of SBRy gondolas. I have the cover letter that we received
from the engineering people in Bethlehem, Pa. Hugh T. Guillaume



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Re: Steam Era Hoppers in MofW Service on NYCTA ?

Matt Herson
 

Tom,

Don't have any information regarding the Staten Island operation of hopper cars. Have a diagram sheet from the NYCTA for the yellow hopper in the second photo link. It is not as old as one may think having been built at the tail end of the era for this list in 1958. Cars H250-H279 were built by Marshall Railway Equipment Co. for NYCTA and meet AAR requirements for interchange. The cars are however only 8'-7" wide to fit through the IRT Division tunnels. Other information: Length - 31'-11"; Truck centers - 22'-6"; Load Capy. - 67000 Lbs.; Load Limit - 109000 lbs.; Cubic Capy. - 1130 cu. ft.; AAR class - HM; Couplers - MCB type "E"; Hand Brake - Ajax.

Have heard plausible stories, although I have no first hand knowledge, that these cars operated over the New Haven to Branford, CT for ballast loading at the New Haven Trap Rock Co. operator of the Branford Steam RR. The ballast was for NYCTA use and used the narrow NYCTA cars to avoid trans loading.

Hope this helps,

Matt Herson

----- Original Message -----
From: rrhistorian
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:10 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Steam Era Hoppers in MofW Service on NYCTA ?


Hello all,

In recent years I have come across several photos showing what look to
be 50-ton, steam-era hoppers in service on various parts of the New
York City Transit Authority system. I was wondering if anyone here
knew more about them and if any still exist?

As many here may already know, there are few surviving steam era
hopper cars anywhere.

Here is a photo of them from 1997 on the MTA Staten Island Railway:

(http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?44886)

This photo shows them on a part of the subway system in 1981

(http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2853)

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Charles Morrill
 

Dennis,
Thanks for the story from your Dad on drywall and boxcar shipment. I had been wondering myself about that subject relative to the plaster and drywall plant not too far from here at Acme, TX (as in Quanah, Acme & Pacific RY). I wanted a excuse or story to justify, however skimpily, the QA&P 1919 Mt. Vernon boxcar on my SP layout.

There is an undated photo in the book on the QA&P of drywall being manufactured. Judging from the clothes the workers in the photo are wearing, the date could have been anywhere from the late '30s to 1950.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sheetrock by Rail


I hate to reopen the thread where everyone is telling us what's behind
their walls, but I did promise a first person report on the shipping
of sheetrock in the WWII era. I had dinner with Dad last night, so
asked him. Dad work as a yardman for Elmont Lumber in Chicago in '38
and '39 while he was going to vocational school learning to be a
welder. Later, after the war, there was a glut of trained welders, so
he went to work for Standard Lumber, eventually becoming yard foreman,
when in 1952 he followed an opportunity to become a carpenter. So, we
can look at both the pre and post war periods here.

Dad recalls that 4X8 sheets of drywall were pretty common in Chicago,
even in the thirties. Perhaps this early acceptance was due to the
experience gained with its use in the construction of the temporary
buildings used for the 1933 Century of Progress. Dad doesn't remember
ever receiving any gypsum product, drywall, rocklath, or bagged
plaster, in anything other than boxcars. He recalled that since both
the roacklath and plaster came from the same source, mixed carloads of
both were pretty common.

Drywall tended to be in cars containing nothing but drywall, but a mix
of sizes, and each car may have been consigned to two or three
customers. Each would take their share and the railroad would re-seal
the car. The partial car didn't actually move between consignees, as
there were several lumber yards that all received their loads at the
team tracks at the C&NW 40th St. Yard on north Crawford Ave. Dad said
that Standard, a rather small yard by today's standards, was taking a
partial car about every two weeks. The drywall was stacked flat
lengthwise in the car, each size in its own stack. He said that the
cars mostly had wide doors, apparently automobile cars. Irregardless
of the wide doors, all unloading was by hand, one bundle (two sheets)
at a time.

Unlike lumber, sheetrock products weren't brokered; the various yards
put their orders in with USG, and the USG sales representative worked
out the details of the combined loads. Lumber, on the other hand, was
almost never consigned to more than one customer, because of the
difficulty of dividing the load, which was typically a mix of sizes,
largest on the bottom.

Dennis





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Re: Steam Era Hoppers in MofW Service on NYCTA ?

Charlie Vlk
 

The cars appear to be in ballast service. The twin hopper looks like it has had its outlets rebuilt for ballast.
In an earlier era there might have been some interchange cars coming in for coal delivery. The cars you
picture are used in maintenance.
Charlie Vlk


Re: Bulkhead Flats

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Jim Betz wrote:

I know that there were both experiments and even RR-built cars for
specific services ... such as sheetrock and pulpwood cars ... but it is
my belief that bulkhead flats came into common use after the cutoff for
this list. Ie. that cars such as the GSC bulkhead flats were built and
delivered in the early 60's and that before that time frame the vast
majority of flat cars were 'all' without bulkheads.
Am I wrong?
Jim,

In 1955, the ICC's "Blue Books" separated Rack Cars (FB's, FMS' & LP's) from Flat Cars (FM's, FC, FD, FG, FL's & FW's). Not all "rack cars" were bulkhead flats; some had superstructures which resembled open-top stock cars.

On Dec. 31, 1954, there were 74,541 Flat Cars including rack cars owned by Class I RR's in the US; on Dec. 31, 1955, there were 56,124 Flat Cars and 25,559 Rack Cars - some of the rack cars had been classified as "Other" Freight Cars in 1954. On 12/31/1960, there were 52,714 Flat Cars and 37,472 Rack Cars owned by US Class I RR's. On 12/31/1965, there were 49,768 Flat Cars and 43,292 Rack Cars.

Tim Gilbert


Bulkhead Flats

Jim Betz
 

I know that there were both experiments and even RR-built cars for
specific services ... such as sheetrock and pulpwood cars ... but it is
my belief that bulkhead flats came into common use after the cutoff for
this list. Ie. that cars such as the GSC bulkhead flats were built and
delivered in the early 60's and that before that time frame the vast
majority of flat cars were 'all' without bulkheads.
Am I wrong?


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

I hate to reopen the thread where everyone is telling us what's behind
their walls, but I did promise a first person report on the shipping
of sheetrock in the WWII era. I had dinner with Dad last night, so
asked him. Dad work as a yardman for Elmont Lumber in Chicago in '38
and '39 while he was going to vocational school learning to be a
welder. Later, after the war, there was a glut of trained welders, so
he went to work for Standard Lumber, eventually becoming yard foreman,
when in 1952 he followed an opportunity to become a carpenter. So, we
can look at both the pre and post war periods here.

Dad recalls that 4X8 sheets of drywall were pretty common in Chicago,
even in the thirties. Perhaps this early acceptance was due to the
experience gained with its use in the construction of the temporary
buildings used for the 1933 Century of Progress. Dad doesn't remember
ever receiving any gypsum product, drywall, rocklath, or bagged
plaster, in anything other than boxcars. He recalled that since both
the roacklath and plaster came from the same source, mixed carloads of
both were pretty common.

Drywall tended to be in cars containing nothing but drywall, but a mix
of sizes, and each car may have been consigned to two or three
customers. Each would take their share and the railroad would re-seal
the car. The partial car didn't actually move between consignees, as
there were several lumber yards that all received their loads at the
team tracks at the C&NW 40th St. Yard on north Crawford Ave. Dad said
that Standard, a rather small yard by today's standards, was taking a
partial car about every two weeks. The drywall was stacked flat
lengthwise in the car, each size in its own stack. He said that the
cars mostly had wide doors, apparently automobile cars. Irregardless
of the wide doors, all unloading was by hand, one bundle (two sheets)
at a time.

Unlike lumber, sheetrock products weren't brokered; the various yards
put their orders in with USG, and the USG sales representative worked
out the details of the combined loads. Lumber, on the other hand, was
almost never consigned to more than one customer, because of the
difficulty of dividing the load, which was typically a mix of sizes,
largest on the bottom.

Dennis


Steam Era Hoppers in MofW Service on NYCTA ?

rrhistorian
 

Hello all,

In recent years I have come across several photos showing what look to
be 50-ton, steam-era hoppers in service on various parts of the New
York City Transit Authority system. I was wondering if anyone here
knew more about them and if any still exist?

As many here may already know, there are few surviving steam era
hopper cars anywhere.

Here is a photo of them from 1997 on the MTA Staten Island Railway:

(http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?44886)

This photo shows them on a part of the subway system in 1981

(http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2853)

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie


Re: Early SOU Pulpwood Flats

culturalinfidel9 <djmiller@...>
 

Tim,

Thanks for checking. I'm not familiar with the Southwind Models cars-
-what number series are they in? I can check to see if I have any
information on them if I have some details.

Dan Miller

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


I'll see if I have any. And if you happen to have a builder's photo
of any
Southern or CofG steel pulpwood flats as imported by Southwind
Models
I will be eternally grateful.... Years of looking have turned up
nothing so far.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "culturalinfidel9" <djmiller@...>
I'm looking for photos or drawings of Southern pulpwood cars in
the
following series:

115000 - 116599 (SOU, 267 cars)
117500 - 117999 (SOU, 201 cars)
325000 - 325579 (NO&NE, 30 cars)
300230 - 300473 (AGS, 40 cars)

The cars indicated were converted to pulpwood cars from standard
flat
cars between 1934 and 1937. If anyone has photos/drawings or
could
point me to sources of same, I would be much obliged.

Thank you,
Dan Miller


Re: Early SOU Pulpwood Flats

centga@...
 

Tim, After much looking at these models and almost buying one I'm convinved
that if these cars really exsisted they were obtained after the Sou took over
the C of G (1963) There's no cars on the early roster that fit this model.
Todd Horton



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Re: Early SOU Pulpwood Flats

Don Worthy
 

Tim, the Central of Georgia Historical Society has some great shots of their early wood racks. I've found one "partial shot" of an actual flat car that was converted into a wood rack. The car shows up in a photo of a switch engine #51 (I think that's the number)
You should contact Allen Tutten. He has written an article on the wood racks in the latest Right Way.

Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.

timboconnor@... wrote:

I'll see if I have any. And if you happen to have a builder's photo of any
Southern or CofG steel pulpwood flats as imported by Southwind Models
I will be eternally grateful.... Years of looking have turned up nothing so far.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "culturalinfidel9" <djmiller@...>
I'm looking for photos or drawings of Southern pulpwood cars in the
following series:

115000 - 116599 (SOU, 267 cars)
117500 - 117999 (SOU, 201 cars)
325000 - 325579 (NO&NE, 30 cars)
300230 - 300473 (AGS, 40 cars)

The cars indicated were converted to pulpwood cars from standard flat
cars between 1934 and 1937. If anyone has photos/drawings or could
point me to sources of same, I would be much obliged.

Thank you,
Dan Miller




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Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Later in the1960's builders introduced the in which studs were sheathed with
"dry
wall" and used joint compound and tape to cover the seams. I assume
the building codes were changed to allow this method of construction.

Builder supply companies without railroad access would receive rail
shipments at the local "team track".

Bob Witt, Indianapolis, Indiana


Bob,
That had little to do with building codes. In most states, until the adoption
of several "national codes" very few building codes applied to single family
residences other than fire exit requirements. It was more likely a natural
evolution of product design and customer acceptability. Dry wall, gypsum wall
board and several other designations continued to evolve so that even high rise
buildings can use these products in stairwells and elevator shafts.


CJ Riley


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Re: Early SOU Pulpwood Flats

Tim O'Connor
 

I'll see if I have any. And if you happen to have a builder's photo of any
Southern or CofG steel pulpwood flats as imported by Southwind Models
I will be eternally grateful.... Years of looking have turned up nothing so far.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "culturalinfidel9" <djmiller@...>
I'm looking for photos or drawings of Southern pulpwood cars in the
following series:

115000 - 116599 (SOU, 267 cars)
117500 - 117999 (SOU, 201 cars)
325000 - 325579 (NO&NE, 30 cars)
300230 - 300473 (AGS, 40 cars)

The cars indicated were converted to pulpwood cars from standard flat
cars between 1934 and 1937. If anyone has photos/drawings or could
point me to sources of same, I would be much obliged.

Thank you,
Dan Miller


Re: Sheetrock by Rail

Tim O'Connor
 

We are straying off topic!

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: cj riley <cjriley42@...>
I have been avoiding adding to the clutter, but I can no longer resist. As a
young architect in Pittsburgh in the '60s, I was often at odds with contractors
and suppliers who wanted to provide skim coat plaster, a thin coating of
plaster over 4x8 drywakll sheets. This eliminated a lot of joint finishing and
was normally applied with a swirley "sand finish" so it would look "just like
plaster" but more economical. I always recoiled at the horrible swirely finish
that was standard in residential constuction then. It was even common to swirl
a pattern around the ceiling fixtures. Double ugh!!

CJ Riley

134881 - 134900 of 196811