Date   

Re: Athearn Flat Cars

B.T. Charles
 

Chuck, Mark and List Members,

the most recent roster I have stated
2700, 40' GMRC, sold 1987 somewhere in Manchester, VT, private
property, converted to a bridge
2709, 40' GMRC 2640, ex-Rutland 4020 Jordan p52, to UHRRR 1999
2762, 40' GMRC, to DRM/RRET
2777, 40' GMRC, Steamtown, PA, storing wheel lathe 84, restored w/
marble load `99
27xx, 40' VTR 5000 (1990's?)

The July ORER states that
25 - 2700-2799 flats
14 - 4000-4034 gon sides
8 - 4500-4509 gon sides
Of these cars in service, I would hazard a guess that only the gons
would have been in interchange for limestone service (paper), and the
unmodified flats were used mainly for ferry moves of marble.

Rome

RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Mark,
The best I could find on the Rutland series cars was that they
were
numbered in the 2700-2799 series and were black. In '53 only 30
remained. A
couple of years ago they were:

2700 used as a bridge
2709 on the Green Mountain Railway
2762 At the Danbury Railway Museum in Danbury CT
2777 At Steamtown displayed with a marble load

Chuck Hladik


Re: Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

Brian,

I have never been quite sure of the time frame when the cars received
steel sides.

The Dec. 1965 N&W diagram sheet for the cars states, "Heavy repairs
with wood slope sheets and sides being replaced with steel in 1956".

The July 1957 Wabash equipment book shows the cars still having wood
sides and slope sheets.

The July 1958 ORER shows the cars being composite type.

I also have a large ledger book showing purchases, retirements, and
conversion of Wabash equipment from Jan. 1945 through Dec. 1960 and
no mention is made of a program to change the sides from wood to
steel. Wish I knew for sure. I aldso have no need for the steel
sided cars either. Wish P2K had used the wood side car for the
Wabash cars.

Chet French
Dixon, IL







-- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

I recently acquired a Wabash steel-sided WW2 War emergency hopper.
I was
surprised the car has a NEW date of 5-59. Apparently the Wabash
considered
them new cars for accounting purposes when they were resided. I
thought
this practice was no longer allowed after the early 1950's. When
did the
Wabash start to replace the sides with steel plate? According to
the Model
RR magazine index website, Ed Hawkins did a two part article in the
December
2000, and April 2001 issues of RMJ. Did either of these articles
discuss the
Wabash cars rebuilt with steel sides? My main quandary is I model
August
1957, can the model be renumbered to fit within my era. Thanks for
any help?
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Reefer Round-up

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Reefer Round-up

Intermountain 405x (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT
The R-40-23 is dead-on accurate for PFE and NP. For MDT I stick
with resin kits! The Athearn end by the way is the same -- you'll
need a resin MDT end from Stan Rydarowicz.

KL> I was wondering about this. I have a MM 5/02 article by Roger Hinman where he shows four different ends applicable to what he calls "M6" cars or those built between 1947 and 1958. Also, in the archives I found this:

"Richard [Hendrickson] wrote: "The main problem in using IM's R-40-23 model to represent an MDT 9000 series cars is that the ends are wrong. Other minor details need modification as well, but it's a relatively easy kitbash, leaving the factory lettering on the sides intact. The MDT cars had 3/4 improved Dreadnaught ends, not the 3/3 ends on the model (which are, of course, correct for the PFE R-40-23s). I got a pair of replacement ends by cutting them off an old Athearn reefer roof and carving and filing off the ladders, grabs, and other molded-on junk. Turned out to be a lot easier than it looked, as was taking the ends off the Intermountain car."

In the kits I have the IM models have 3/3 IDEs while the Atherns are 3/4 IDE. As a side note, I picked up two undec IM kits for $11.50. Eac had a set of Details West 4/4 Sq DEs, a set of Champ ART decals, and a set of Grandt Line reefer details. What do you think the original owner was trying to create?

Why type of ends does Stan sell? What's his address?

MDC 31xx "36 ft Meat Reefer" (CRLX 5701-5850 or 5901-6100)
You need to subscribe to the RPI web site! :-) (John Nehrich has
identified some similar prototypes.)

KL> I do, but honestly some othe stuff is old, a lot of the photos don't come up, and there are some errors, such as saying the Tyco car is "is actually pretty close to the PFE's R-40-10" when it should be -18, -19, and -21. It's hard to pick out just which prototypes go well with a particular kit from the site. I actually found his MR article to be a better starting point. I picked the Cudahy cars because that's what Richard Hendrickson modeled in his RMC article (one of the few authors that I assume to be prima facie correct).

Athearn 50xx "40 ft Steel Reefer" (PFE R-40-23, but can be made
into an MDT 9000 with some tweaking; others?)
"Tyco Toss"

KL> Yeah, maybe.

Tyco wood side reefer (PFE R-30-18)
Ditto, naturally.

KL> Oh come on, it looks like fun!

Walthers 25xx "40 ft meat reefer" (GATC horizontal sheathed; various
lessees with new sills, doors, ends, roof?)
Walthers did two different versions of the ends for this car. One is
correct for the Milwaukee lease cars. I think the other is correct for
some meat reefers (e.g. Armour). Sunshine did the Milwaukee car.

KL> I think I have the earlier release as described by Nehrich and would like to do a PCX/TRAX car if anything. This will require a diagonal roof, I think, in addition to other stuff.

Thanks,
KL


Re: anthracite hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

In the '50s coal for the Kaiser steel mill at Fontana came across
Cajon Pass in MoPac hoppers, though I don't know where it came from.
The Kaiser mill was the only So. Calif. recipient of coal in
significant amounts.
Nearly all this coal was western Colorado/eastern Utah coal.
There are photos of both Utah Coal Route gons, and D&RGW gons and
hoppers, at Kaiser. Given the historic connections and cooperation
between Mopac and the Rio Grande, one can imagine some car sharing.
Tony Thompson
While it's true that much Fontana coal and ore came from Utah, I have
not seen photos of MP hoppers on the Rio Grande or UP in that area. I
think it's idle speculation in the absence of photos.

Tim O'Connor


Re: anthracite hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
In the '50s coal for the Kaiser steel mill at Fontana came across Cajon Pass in MoPac hoppers, though I don't know where it came from. The Kaiser mill was the only So. Calif. recipient of coal in significant amounts.
Nearly all this coal was western Colorado/eastern Utah coal. There are photos of both Utah Coal Route gons, and D&RGW gons and hoppers, at Kaiser. Given the historic connections and cooperation between Mopac and the Rio Grande, one can imagine some car sharing.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: anthracite hoppers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 3, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


I don't know if anthracite was found along the MP, but I've
seen photos of lots of MP coal hoppers in the Santa Fe yard
in San Bernadino, California. I guess this coal came from
Missouri or Illinois.
In the '50s coal for the Kaiser steel mill at Fontana came across Cajon Pass in MoPac hoppers, though I don't know where it came from. The Kaiser mill was the only So. Calif. recipient of coal in significant amounts.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: pacific freight enterprises kits

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Doug Gardner asked:
Does anyone know where to purchase these kits ????
And Tim O'Connor correctly replied:
Andy Carlson
These are Terry Wegmann's kits, and if anyone has them available it
will be Andy. Terry had some of them assembled and marketed by
InterMountain, but they may be sold out. Andy can be reached at:
midcentury (at) sbcglobal (dot) net

Don't know if Andy will be on-line this weekend. The big swap meet at
the trolley museum in Perris CA is today, and Martin Lofton's mini-
meet and symposium in Buena Park is tomorrow. Andy attends both.

Tom Madden


Re: anthracite hoppers

cshope@...
 

Tim



There was some anthracite found in Arkansas in the large cola fields along
the Arkansas River northwest Little Rock. Also the bituminous coal found in
western end of the Arkansas coal field was high grade metallurgical coal. I
understand a lot of the metallurgical coal went west to Colorado and Utah.
I also under the anthracite was used at least in the region for home
heating. I would have to look at the D&R by Bill Pollard to back these
facts up.



Respectfully submitted



Charles D. Shope

AKA BleuBayouEagle

cshope@... <mailto:cshope@...>





_____

From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timboconnor@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:57 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] anthracite hoppers




I don't know if anthracite was found along the MP, but I've
seen photos of lots of MP coal hoppers in the Santa Fe yard
in San Bernadino, California. I guess this coal came from
Missouri or Illinois.

At 3/1/2007 02:16 PM Thursday, you wrote:
The most interesting part of the discussion of various uses of
anthracite, and its shipment in Reading hoppers, is that it may explain
the photo I have of a Reading hopper in Los Angeles in the early 1960s.

Tony Thompson


Re: anthracite hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

I don't know if anthracite was found along the MP, but I've
seen photos of lots of MP coal hoppers in the Santa Fe yard
in San Bernadino, California. I guess this coal came from
Missouri or Illinois.

At 3/1/2007 02:16 PM Thursday, you wrote:
The most interesting part of the discussion of various uses of
anthracite, and its shipment in Reading hoppers, is that it may explain
the photo I have of a Reading hopper in Los Angeles in the early 1960s.

Tony Thompson


Re: minerals (was anthracite hoppers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Russ Strodtz wrote regardling long distance cargos

Vermiculite = Libby and Whitefish MT area
Also Perlite is a New Mexico commodity, transported
by the Santa Fe.

Diatomaceous Earth = extreme West Texas
Lompoc California on the SP was the largest producer
in the world for many years. This stuff is widely used
for filtering/purifying liquids.

Tim O'Connor


Re: brass wire for detailing

Tim O'Connor
 

i've had DA wire break too, but only after bending and
rebending... nowadays i mostly use CMA wire, which is more
flexible (and comes in protective plastic tubes). i use
.015 steel (piano) wire too where i want strength and
rigidity (a vertical brake rod for example).

Tim O'Connor


Re: pacific freight enterprises kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy Carlson

At 3/3/2007 09:40 AM Saturday, you wrote:
Does anyone know where to purchase these kits ???? Doug Gardner


Re: Reefer Round-up

Tim O'Connor
 

Kurt wrote

Red Caboose 44xx (PFE R-30-12-9; others?)
The original Red Caboose tooling had issues, I think these were
400x, 410x, 420x kits. The revised body was 415x kits. The only
44xx kit I have is painted for NP -- this is a revised body but
is completely wrong for NP.

Intermountain 405x (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT
The R-40-23 is dead-on accurate for PFE and NP. For MDT I stick
with resin kits! The Athearn end by the way is the same -- you'll
need a resin MDT end from Stan Rydarowicz.

MDC 31xx "36 ft Meat Reefer" (CRLX 5701-5850 or 5901-6100)
You need to subscribe to the RPI web site! :-) (John Nehrich has
identified some similar prototypes.)

Athearn 50xx "40 ft Steel Reefer" (PFE R-40-23, but can be made
into an MDT 9000 with some tweaking; others?)
"Tyco Toss"

Tyco wood side reefer (PFE R-30-18)
Ditto, naturally.

Walthers 25xx "40 ft meat reefer" (GATC horizontal sheathed; various
lessees with new sills, doors, ends, roof?)
Walthers did two different versions of the ends for this car. One is
correct for the Milwaukee lease cars. I think the other is correct for
some meat reefers (e.g. Armour). Sunshine did the Milwaukee car.

Tim O'Connor


Reefer Round-up

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Over the past year or so I've been buying car kits with the eventual goal of populating my future (and frequently changing) layout. Now that I've got the track plan down pretty well I find I've got about twice as many cars as I need and a good number that are incorrectly marked or just bad models. I've been able to sort through the general freight cars pretty well but the refrigerators are a much tougher nut to crack. With your help I'd like to cull the reefers as well. So, what can the following kits best be used to model, or close with some work? (What I think I know about them is parentheses. . .)

Red Caboose 44xx (PFE R-30-12-9; others?)

Intermountain 405x (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT 9000 with ends from Athearn 40 ft steel reefer and some tweaking; others?)

MDC 31xx "36 ft Meat Reefer" (CRLX 5701-5850 or 5901-6100 with detailing)

Athearn 50xx "40 ft Steel Reefer" (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT 9000 with some tweaking; others?)

Tyco wood side reefer (PFE R-30-18)

Walthers 25xx "40 ft meat reefer" (GATC horizontal sheathed; various lessees with new sills, doors, ends, roof?)

Industrial Rail wood reefer (ex-Life-Like?, ex-Varney?, metal roof)

Thanks,
KL


pacific freight enterprises kits

radius158
 

Does anyone know where to purchase these kits ???? Doug Gardner


Re: Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks Jim, Bummer. Looks like this goes in the sell pile for the Railfest
show Kirtland OH in a few weeks.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper


Brian,

The December 2000 RMJ Hawkins article contains a roster of the AAR
Emergency 50-Ton Composite Hoppers based upon ORER information. This roster
shows that as of April 1957, the Wabash had 398 of the original 400 cars
still in service and of composite construction. The entry for January 1958
shows the same 398 cars still of compostie construction. The entry for
January 1959 shows them to be all steel.

There is a second chart in this article which provides some building
information, etc. The note for the Wabash cars states "Wabash cars rebuilt
1958."

In the second article, there is also a photo of WAB 39152 and the caption
indicates it was rebuilt "circa 1958."

It looks as though these cars were rebuilt after your August 1957 era.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Re: Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Brian,

The December 2000 RMJ Hawkins article contains a roster of the AAR Emergency 50-Ton Composite Hoppers based upon ORER information. This roster shows that as of April 1957, the Wabash had 398 of the original 400 cars still in service and of composite construction. The entry for January 1958 shows the same 398 cars still of compostie construction. The entry for January 1959 shows them to be all steel.

There is a second chart in this article which provides some building information, etc. The note for the Wabash cars states "Wabash cars rebuilt 1958."

In the second article, there is also a photo of WAB 39152 and the caption indicates it was rebuilt "circa 1958."

It looks as though these cars were rebuilt after your August 1957 era.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian J Carlson
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:30 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper


I recently acquired a Wabash steel-sided WW2 War emergency hopper. I was
surprised the car has a NEW date of 5-59. Apparently the Wabash considered
them new cars for accounting purposes when they were resided. I thought
this practice was no longer allowed after the early 1950's. When did the
Wabash start to replace the sides with steel plate? According to the Model
RR magazine index website, Ed Hawkins did a two part article in the December
2000, and April 2001 issues of RMJ. Did either of these articles discuss the
Wabash cars rebuilt with steel sides? My main quandary is I model August
1957, can the model be renumbered to fit within my era. Thanks for any help?
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Pre 1945 Scheme B&O Boxcar Photos

bdg1210 <Bruce_Griffin@...>
 

Group,

While the post-1945 paint color for B&O boxcars is pretty well
documented for modeling purposes (zinc-chromate primer is good start).
I am looking for more information about the pre-1945 color. Pre-1945
paint schemes are associated with a darker, more brown color. The
schemes are at
http://borhs.org/Logos/CBarkan/BOBoxcarStenciling1920-60s.pdf . Polly
Scale Roof Brown is a good starting point for this pre-1945 scheme
according to popular accounts. I am looking for color photos of the
pre-1945 scheme/paint color that may be in the background of your
photos of your favorite lines.

While searching my B&O color photos, I found many boxcar photos for
other lines. I presume your favorite line's color photos might have
an older B&O paint scheme photo in them. I am happy to let anyone
know about their favorite lines freight cars in B&O photos in exchange
or as asked. The older scheme I am looking for has a Capitol Dome
without the "linking 13 states" on the outside and in a photo taken
before 1955 when the scheme changed again. Thanks in advance for your
assitance.

Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin


Re: Intermountain stock car drover's doors

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Mar 1, 2007, at 8:34 PM, Dean Payne wrote:

.... my current question regards the drover's doors. There are two
pairs provided, but the instructions do not have a good enough
photo to be able to tell which goes with the early A.T.&S.F.
lettering. (I> > model 1937.)

Depends on the class, Dean. Classes Sk-Q, Sk-R, and Sk-S (with
vertical staff brakes) were delivered with the wood-framed drover's
doors, and kept them into the 21950s before they began to be replaced
with metal-sheathed doors. Classes Sk-T and Sk-U (with Ajax hand
brakes) had the metal-sheathed doors from the beginning.

Richard Hendrickson
Thanks for the info. I almost forgot what I first wante to write
about. There are 3 small U shaped pieces, but there are a pair of
mounting holes on the drovers' doors, and TWO pairs of holes on the
single-deck door. Does this mean 2 loops for the doors and an extra
loop, or did I lose one of my loops? I can bend some (Tichy) wire if I
need a fourth... or sixth. Again, the included
instructions/illustrations make no mention of the loops. Nice car, but
the instructions are missing a few details.
Do the poling pockets look funny to anyone else? Instead of a shallow
bowl shape, they don't appear to have been fully molded. They look a
little hollow.
I can fill that in with some Squadron putty. But, what about the door
loops?
Dean Payne


Re: brass wire for detailing

Schuyler Larrabee
 

On Mar 2, 2007, at 6:29 AM, Michael Watnoski wrote:
The Detail
Associates wire is hard. If it is bent at a tight right angle it
will break. The area wher it is to bent should be heated with a
butane lighter momentarily to aneal the wire first.
I bend DA wire, often well past 90 degrees, without experiencing
breakage and have never annealed it. I have found that I can even
bend it several times before it does break. DA wire is usually my
first choice because it does bend and HOLD its shape, yet is not
easily bent by accident. My experience with Precision Scale wire is
that it is "softer" and easier to bend by accident. After kicking
around on my bench for a few months, there are no straight pieces of
Precision wire!

Regards
Bruce

I'm with Bruce. I have a complete selection (which is much more extensive than any of these other
lines suggested) of all the sizes. Everything from .008" to .052". It works just fine, no issues
with bending, I've never seen it break.

Actually, I have:
.008
.010
.012
.015
.019
.022
.028
.033
.040
.046
.052

I have not bought any in quite some time, there may be more sizes than that.
SGL