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Re: Athearn Flat Cars
B.T. Charles
Chuck, Mark and List Members,
the most recent roster I have stated 2700, 40' GMRC, sold 1987 somewhere in Manchester, VT, private property, converted to a bridge 2709, 40' GMRC 2640, ex-Rutland 4020 Jordan p52, to UHRRR 1999 2762, 40' GMRC, to DRM/RRET 2777, 40' GMRC, Steamtown, PA, storing wheel lathe 84, restored w/ marble load `99 27xx, 40' VTR 5000 (1990's?) The July ORER states that 25 - 2700-2799 flats 14 - 4000-4034 gon sides 8 - 4500-4509 gon sides Of these cars in service, I would hazard a guess that only the gons would have been in interchange for limestone service (paper), and the unmodified flats were used mainly for ferry moves of marble. Rome RUTLANDRS@... wrote: were numbered in the 2700-2799 series and were black. In '53 only 30remained. A couple of years ago they were:
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Re: Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper
Chet French <cfrench@...>
Brian,
I have never been quite sure of the time frame when the cars received steel sides. The Dec. 1965 N&W diagram sheet for the cars states, "Heavy repairs with wood slope sheets and sides being replaced with steel in 1956". The July 1957 Wabash equipment book shows the cars still having wood sides and slope sheets. The July 1958 ORER shows the cars being composite type. I also have a large ledger book showing purchases, retirements, and conversion of Wabash equipment from Jan. 1945 through Dec. 1960 and no mention is made of a program to change the sides from wood to steel. Wish I knew for sure. I aldso have no need for the steel sided cars either. Wish P2K had used the wood side car for the Wabash cars. Chet French Dixon, IL -- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote: I was surprised the car has a NEW date of 5-59. Apparently the Wabashconsidered them new cars for accounting purposes when they were resided. Ithought this practice was no longer allowed after the early 1950's. Whendid the Wabash start to replace the sides with steel plate? According tothe Model RR magazine index website, Ed Hawkins did a two part article in theDecember 2000, and April 2001 issues of RMJ. Did either of these articlesdiscuss the Wabash cars rebuilt with steel sides? My main quandary is I modelAugust 1957, can the model be renumbered to fit within my era. Thanks forany help? Brian J Carlson P.E.
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Re: Reefer Round-up
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Reefer Round-up The R-40-23 is dead-on accurate for PFE and NP. For MDT I stickIntermountain 405x (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT with resin kits! The Athearn end by the way is the same -- you'll need a resin MDT end from Stan Rydarowicz. KL> I was wondering about this. I have a MM 5/02 article by Roger Hinman where he shows four different ends applicable to what he calls "M6" cars or those built between 1947 and 1958. Also, in the archives I found this: "Richard [Hendrickson] wrote: "The main problem in using IM's R-40-23 model to represent an MDT 9000 series cars is that the ends are wrong. Other minor details need modification as well, but it's a relatively easy kitbash, leaving the factory lettering on the sides intact. The MDT cars had 3/4 improved Dreadnaught ends, not the 3/3 ends on the model (which are, of course, correct for the PFE R-40-23s). I got a pair of replacement ends by cutting them off an old Athearn reefer roof and carving and filing off the ladders, grabs, and other molded-on junk. Turned out to be a lot easier than it looked, as was taking the ends off the Intermountain car." In the kits I have the IM models have 3/3 IDEs while the Atherns are 3/4 IDE. As a side note, I picked up two undec IM kits for $11.50. Eac had a set of Details West 4/4 Sq DEs, a set of Champ ART decals, and a set of Grandt Line reefer details. What do you think the original owner was trying to create? Why type of ends does Stan sell? What's his address? You need to subscribe to the RPI web site! :-) (John Nehrich hasMDC 31xx "36 ft Meat Reefer" (CRLX 5701-5850 or 5901-6100) identified some similar prototypes.) KL> I do, but honestly some othe stuff is old, a lot of the photos don't come up, and there are some errors, such as saying the Tyco car is "is actually pretty close to the PFE's R-40-10" when it should be -18, -19, and -21. It's hard to pick out just which prototypes go well with a particular kit from the site. I actually found his MR article to be a better starting point. I picked the Cudahy cars because that's what Richard Hendrickson modeled in his RMC article (one of the few authors that I assume to be prima facie correct). "Tyco Toss"Athearn 50xx "40 ft Steel Reefer" (PFE R-40-23, but can be made KL> Yeah, maybe. Ditto, naturally.Tyco wood side reefer (PFE R-30-18) KL> Oh come on, it looks like fun! Walthers did two different versions of the ends for this car. One isWalthers 25xx "40 ft meat reefer" (GATC horizontal sheathed; various correct for the Milwaukee lease cars. I think the other is correct for some meat reefers (e.g. Armour). Sunshine did the Milwaukee car. KL> I think I have the earlier release as described by Nehrich and would like to do a PCX/TRAX car if anything. This will require a diagonal roof, I think, in addition to other stuff. Thanks, KL
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Re: anthracite hoppers
While it's true that much Fontana coal and ore came from Utah, I haveIn the '50s coal for the Kaiser steel mill at Fontana came acrossNearly all this coal was western Colorado/eastern Utah coal. not seen photos of MP hoppers on the Rio Grande or UP in that area. I think it's idle speculation in the absence of photos. Tim O'Connor
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Re: anthracite hoppers
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
In the '50s coal for the Kaiser steel mill at Fontana came across Cajon Pass in MoPac hoppers, though I don't know where it came from. The Kaiser mill was the only So. Calif. recipient of coal in significant amounts.Nearly all this coal was western Colorado/eastern Utah coal. There are photos of both Utah Coal Route gons, and D&RGW gons and hoppers, at Kaiser. Given the historic connections and cooperation between Mopac and the Rio Grande, one can imagine some car sharing. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: anthracite hoppers
Richard Hendrickson
On Mar 3, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
In the '50s coal for the Kaiser steel mill at Fontana came across Cajon Pass in MoPac hoppers, though I don't know where it came from. The Kaiser mill was the only So. Calif. recipient of coal in significant amounts. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: pacific freight enterprises kits
pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
Doug Gardner asked:
Does anyone know where to purchase these kits ????And Tim O'Connor correctly replied: Andy CarlsonThese are Terry Wegmann's kits, and if anyone has them available it will be Andy. Terry had some of them assembled and marketed by InterMountain, but they may be sold out. Andy can be reached at: midcentury (at) sbcglobal (dot) net Don't know if Andy will be on-line this weekend. The big swap meet at the trolley museum in Perris CA is today, and Martin Lofton's mini- meet and symposium in Buena Park is tomorrow. Andy attends both. Tom Madden
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Re: anthracite hoppers
cshope@...
Tim
There was some anthracite found in Arkansas in the large cola fields along the Arkansas River northwest Little Rock. Also the bituminous coal found in western end of the Arkansas coal field was high grade metallurgical coal. I understand a lot of the metallurgical coal went west to Colorado and Utah. I also under the anthracite was used at least in the region for home heating. I would have to look at the D&R by Bill Pollard to back these facts up. Respectfully submitted Charles D. Shope AKA BleuBayouEagle cshope@... <mailto:cshope@...> _____ From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timboconnor@...] Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:57 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] anthracite hoppers I don't know if anthracite was found along the MP, but I've seen photos of lots of MP coal hoppers in the Santa Fe yard in San Bernadino, California. I guess this coal came from Missouri or Illinois. At 3/1/2007 02:16 PM Thursday, you wrote: The most interesting part of the discussion of various uses of
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Re: anthracite hoppers
I don't know if anthracite was found along the MP, but I've
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seen photos of lots of MP coal hoppers in the Santa Fe yard in San Bernadino, California. I guess this coal came from Missouri or Illinois.
At 3/1/2007 02:16 PM Thursday, you wrote:
The most interesting part of the discussion of various uses of
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Re: minerals (was anthracite hoppers)
Russ Strodtz wrote regardling long distance cargos
Vermiculite = Libby and Whitefish MT areaAlso Perlite is a New Mexico commodity, transported by the Santa Fe. Diatomaceous Earth = extreme West TexasLompoc California on the SP was the largest producer in the world for many years. This stuff is widely used for filtering/purifying liquids. Tim O'Connor
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Re: brass wire for detailing
i've had DA wire break too, but only after bending and
rebending... nowadays i mostly use CMA wire, which is more flexible (and comes in protective plastic tubes). i use .015 steel (piano) wire too where i want strength and rigidity (a vertical brake rod for example). Tim O'Connor
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Re: pacific freight enterprises kits
Andy Carlson
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At 3/3/2007 09:40 AM Saturday, you wrote:
Does anyone know where to purchase these kits ???? Doug Gardner
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Re: Reefer Round-up
Kurt wrote
The original Red Caboose tooling had issues, I think these wereRed Caboose 44xx (PFE R-30-12-9; others?) 400x, 410x, 420x kits. The revised body was 415x kits. The only 44xx kit I have is painted for NP -- this is a revised body but is completely wrong for NP. The R-40-23 is dead-on accurate for PFE and NP. For MDT I stickIntermountain 405x (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT with resin kits! The Athearn end by the way is the same -- you'll need a resin MDT end from Stan Rydarowicz. You need to subscribe to the RPI web site! :-) (John Nehrich hasMDC 31xx "36 ft Meat Reefer" (CRLX 5701-5850 or 5901-6100) identified some similar prototypes.) "Tyco Toss"Athearn 50xx "40 ft Steel Reefer" (PFE R-40-23, but can be made Ditto, naturally.Tyco wood side reefer (PFE R-30-18) Walthers did two different versions of the ends for this car. One isWalthers 25xx "40 ft meat reefer" (GATC horizontal sheathed; various correct for the Milwaukee lease cars. I think the other is correct for some meat reefers (e.g. Armour). Sunshine did the Milwaukee car. Tim O'Connor
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Reefer Round-up
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Over the past year or so I've been buying car kits with the eventual goal of populating my future (and frequently changing) layout. Now that I've got the track plan down pretty well I find I've got about twice as many cars as I need and a good number that are incorrectly marked or just bad models. I've been able to sort through the general freight cars pretty well but the refrigerators are a much tougher nut to crack. With your help I'd like to cull the reefers as well. So, what can the following kits best be used to model, or close with some work? (What I think I know about them is parentheses. . .)
Red Caboose 44xx (PFE R-30-12-9; others?) Intermountain 405x (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT 9000 with ends from Athearn 40 ft steel reefer and some tweaking; others?) MDC 31xx "36 ft Meat Reefer" (CRLX 5701-5850 or 5901-6100 with detailing) Athearn 50xx "40 ft Steel Reefer" (PFE R-40-23, but can be made into an MDT 9000 with some tweaking; others?) Tyco wood side reefer (PFE R-30-18) Walthers 25xx "40 ft meat reefer" (GATC horizontal sheathed; various lessees with new sills, doors, ends, roof?) Industrial Rail wood reefer (ex-Life-Like?, ex-Varney?, metal roof) Thanks, KL
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pacific freight enterprises kits
radius158
Does anyone know where to purchase these kits ???? Doug Gardner
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Re: Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Thanks Jim, Bummer. Looks like this goes in the sell pile for the Railfest
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show Kirtland OH in a few weeks. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper Brian,Emergency 50-Ton Composite Hoppers based upon ORER information. This roster shows that as of April 1957, the Wabash had 398 of the original 400 cars still in service and of composite construction. The entry for January 1958 shows the same 398 cars still of compostie construction. The entry for January 1959 shows them to be all steel. information, etc. The note for the Wabash cars states "Wabash cars rebuilt 1958." indicates it was rebuilt "circa 1958."
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Re: Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper
James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
Brian,
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The December 2000 RMJ Hawkins article contains a roster of the AAR Emergency 50-Ton Composite Hoppers based upon ORER information. This roster shows that as of April 1957, the Wabash had 398 of the original 400 cars still in service and of composite construction. The entry for January 1958 shows the same 398 cars still of compostie construction. The entry for January 1959 shows them to be all steel. There is a second chart in this article which provides some building information, etc. The note for the Wabash cars states "Wabash cars rebuilt 1958." In the second article, there is also a photo of WAB 39152 and the caption indicates it was rebuilt "circa 1958." It looks as though these cars were rebuilt after your August 1957 era. Jim Brewer Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian J Carlson To: stmfc@... Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:30 PM Subject: [STMFC] Wabash Rebuilt War Emegency Hopper I recently acquired a Wabash steel-sided WW2 War emergency hopper. I was surprised the car has a NEW date of 5-59. Apparently the Wabash considered them new cars for accounting purposes when they were resided. I thought this practice was no longer allowed after the early 1950's. When did the Wabash start to replace the sides with steel plate? According to the Model RR magazine index website, Ed Hawkins did a two part article in the December 2000, and April 2001 issues of RMJ. Did either of these articles discuss the Wabash cars rebuilt with steel sides? My main quandary is I model August 1957, can the model be renumbered to fit within my era. Thanks for any help? Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY
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Pre 1945 Scheme B&O Boxcar Photos
bdg1210 <Bruce_Griffin@...>
Group,
While the post-1945 paint color for B&O boxcars is pretty well documented for modeling purposes (zinc-chromate primer is good start). I am looking for more information about the pre-1945 color. Pre-1945 paint schemes are associated with a darker, more brown color. The schemes are at http://borhs.org/Logos/CBarkan/BOBoxcarStenciling1920-60s.pdf . Polly Scale Roof Brown is a good starting point for this pre-1945 scheme according to popular accounts. I am looking for color photos of the pre-1945 scheme/paint color that may be in the background of your photos of your favorite lines. While searching my B&O color photos, I found many boxcar photos for other lines. I presume your favorite line's color photos might have an older B&O paint scheme photo in them. I am happy to let anyone know about their favorite lines freight cars in B&O photos in exchange or as asked. The older scheme I am looking for has a Capitol Dome without the "linking 13 states" on the outside and in a photo taken before 1955 when the scheme changed again. Thanks in advance for your assitance. Regards, Bruce D. Griffin
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Re: Intermountain stock car drover's doors
Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote: photo to be able to tell which goes with the early A.T.&S.F. lettering. (I> > model 1937.) Thanks for the info. I almost forgot what I first wante to write about. There are 3 small U shaped pieces, but there are a pair of mounting holes on the drovers' doors, and TWO pairs of holes on the single-deck door. Does this mean 2 loops for the doors and an extra loop, or did I lose one of my loops? I can bend some (Tichy) wire if I need a fourth... or sixth. Again, the included instructions/illustrations make no mention of the loops. Nice car, but the instructions are missing a few details. Do the poling pockets look funny to anyone else? Instead of a shallow bowl shape, they don't appear to have been fully molded. They look a little hollow. I can fill that in with some Squadron putty. But, what about the door loops? Dean Payne
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Re: brass wire for detailing
Schuyler Larrabee
On Mar 2, 2007, at 6:29 AM, Michael Watnoski wrote:The DetailI bend DA wire, often well past 90 degrees, without experiencing I'm with Bruce. I have a complete selection (which is much more extensive than any of these other lines suggested) of all the sizes. Everything from .008" to .052". It works just fine, no issues with bending, I've never seen it break. Actually, I have: .008 .010 .012 .015 .019 .022 .028 .033 .040 .046 .052 I have not bought any in quite some time, there may be more sizes than that. SGL
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