Hugh writes:

"The society needs to move toward the model railroad hobby as a source of
new members and as a way to utilize its historical materials in a positive
manner. The Pennsylvania RR
historical group and the Nickel Plate Road historical group provide two very
good examples for other organizations such as the NYCSHS to follow."


I think you can look to the Santa Fe guys as the beginning of the path. I
have to believe that the union of their two groups made a strong point, the
rest seem to be slow to follow. It appears as if John Golden is sowing the seeds
of good things to come. Any Historical society that doesn't realize it needs
the prototype modeling community to survive is destine to become the "fallen
flag" it represents.

Greg Martin







************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Tim,

I am glad to hear someone else is looking for a good B&O M-55 boxcar.
The 10'-0" inside height boxcar body would probably be enjoyed by
others also. I am trying to amass as much information about this car
class (M-55 through M-55n) as possible in hopes that a manufacturer
will ask the B&ORHS for help in developing a new product (any lurking
on the list?). Photos or any other information would be appreciated
from the group, as the B&ORHS Archives collection is not complete..

As for the Covered Wagon Boxcar, I wish someone would develop an
injection molded kit as I am getting tired of filing and fitting resin
kits. Remember there are two classes with very different underframes
and side sills, not to mention the rebuildings. On the surface the
appear to be one type of car, but they were build in two programs and
rebuilt separately. Some cars were new tops on old frames and the
frames were then rebuilt later, leaving little of the original cars
except maybe ladders and other bolt ons.

I am also happy that folks outside the B&O community appreciate our
modeling magazine efforts.

Best Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Editor, The B&O Modeler
Summerfield, NC


--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:

Greg Martin wrote

There has over the years been many B&O offering and more needed.

Great articles

from Bob Chapman who I believe actually models B&O. At least now

they have their

own online magazine.

Don't forget Chris Barkan's important B&O box car research; I

believe he was very

involved in the Red Caboose ARA/X29 box cars project. Not that I

don't think that a

good M55 is long overdue...

With regard to the B&O Wagon top car I think the reason that no

one wants to

tool it is that it has already been tooled and never offered by

the company that

tooled it. So, no one wants to start only to have the other

tooling show up in

the form of kits/built-up models by the other source sitting on

the tooloing.

That may be true but there are MANY examples of 'duplicate' models

in HO scale

and it doesn't seem to stop anyone from making even more duplicates.

Unless

the one that has been tooled is of Kadee quality, I don't think

anyone should be

too intimidated to market a good model. Now if a Proto1000 version

appeared

FIRST, that could spoil the market for a better model. But not

necessarily. It's hard

to say anymore with numerous single-owner (or few-owner) models out

there.

Tim O'Connor

On Apr 13, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Dave Nelson wrote:

I just read about 30 messages in this thread and not one has
mentioned what
material is being used -- brass, styrene, or resin. Anyone know?

Injection molded styrene, Dave.

Richard Hendrickson

Dave:
I started the tread. The forthcoming model is a styrene kit. The article in
RMJ states that much. I just didn't quote the entire article.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Dave,

You sound like a man that has an interest in perhaps building a model--a very foreign thought on this list lately.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

Brian J Carlson wrote:

I just picked up the March 2007 issue of RMJ, and see an article by
Richard Hendrickson on the NYC Steel Boxcars. The lead in says a new
model is coming from Sun Models.

I just read about 30 messages in this thread and not one has mentioned what
material is being used -- brass, styrene, or resin. Anyone know?

Dave Nelson

Since I brought up the Reading XMy th other day, I thought about moving the
BLT kit to my workbench. What trucks were these cars delivered with?
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

As far as hand signals were concerned being able to use
the foldable carton was a good reason to buy a 6 pack of
beer.

The basic problem was always limited visibility. If ya
got a 100 car train and 20 cars of visibility there has
to be a different way. The answer was usually air. On the
CB&Q just about every waycar had a tailhose. On the IHB
the cabooses had valves built right into the handrails at
the ends. The cars all have angle cocks. Don't need much
more.

Russ Strodtz

Interesting. Can tell you that if I wanted to buy one or
two brass steam locomotives for a freelance operation they
would be NYC/MC/CCC&StL/IHB/PAE prototypes. I don't keep
up with this stuff, did anyone import a good H5?

Since the available USRA 0-8-0 is so close have been
tempted many times but would prefer the H5.

Russ Strodtz

There are a number of factors involved in determining WHAT gets produced, probably too numerous and varied to start a discussion on here.
But I do know that the best models are the result of someone's passion.
Some roads are over-represented in production models because key individuals caused models they were interested in to be made.
Yes, some models were selected by less-informed companies because they were "easy"..... right out of a book or parked outside
the factory door..... but the good ones come about because somebody "knows" the prototype and wants a model of them.
This doesn't mean that you have to work for a model company to ever hope to see a (reasonable) favorite prototype made...... putting together a
complete research package (railroad/builder drawings/details, photos of all surfaces, equipment, piping, etc., etc..... not just a diagram
book page or a copy of a published drawing) VASTLY improves the chances of a model to be made.
Some of the underepresentation of railroads is a self-fullfilling prophecy.... hard to mode the XY&Z if nobody makes key pieces of equipment
for that road.
We are seeing very railroad specific equipment coming out in plastic.... the Intermountain ATSF stock car being a prime example.... and new
production and toolmaking techniques promise more quality models will be possible, if not in injection molded styrene, at least in resin and
other plastics.
Charlie Vlk

Hi folks,

The first-ever scottymason.com podcast is now available to listen to through my website.
This new monthly podcast features discussions about model railroading with myself and my
co-hosts, Jimmy Deignan and Doug Foscale. Log on and listen. www.scottymason.com

Thanks,

Scott
www.scottymason.com

Greg Martin wrote

There has over the years been many B&O offering and more needed. Great articles
from Bob Chapman who I believe actually models B&O. At least now they have their
own online magazine.

Don't forget Chris Barkan's important B&O box car research; I believe he was very
involved in the Red Caboose ARA/X29 box cars project. Not that I don't think that a
good M55 is long overdue...

With regard to the B&O Wagon top car I think the reason that no one wants to
tool it is that it has already been tooled and never offered by the company that
tooled it. So, no one wants to start only to have the other tooling show up in
the form of kits/built-up models by the other source sitting on the tooloing.

That may be true but there are MANY examples of 'duplicate' models in HO scale
and it doesn't seem to stop anyone from making even more duplicates. Unless
the one that has been tooled is of Kadee quality, I don't think anyone should be
too intimidated to market a good model. Now if a Proto1000 version appeared
FIRST, that could spoil the market for a better model. But not necessarily. It's hard
to say anymore with numerous single-owner (or few-owner) models out there.

Tim O'Connor

Hmmm. Don't recall a brakeman or switchman ever trying to signal me with a whistle <g>. Lantern, hands, fusee, and a large piece of cardboard seemed to be the preferred methods on the old SP/T&NO.
Charlie

Tim,Have you tried Westerfield's NYC stock car?It is a really great kit and a nice looking car when finished.Armand Premo

Eldrn Erote in part...



"I have spoken about this to several NYC (or System) modelers, and having had some odd experiences with the NYC (Society) folks in times past, I can't help but recognize part of the reason that the PRR is so much better represented in the modeling market than the NYC. The Society folks I spoke to had not one iota of interest in freight cars! For a road that rostered well ,over 100,000 freight cars at any one time, and had some of the most innovative freight car designs of any road, this is astounding!. The NYC had, at times,the second largest freight car fleet in the country, yet NYC, P&LE, IHB, P&E and other System roads are shockingly under-represented in model offerings. If it were not for Branchline, P2K, RC, Sunshine, F&C and Westerfield, we would have almost nothing (Thanks, guys!)."

I think all the manufacturuers have done their best to market NYC equipment, including Walthers , but where are the NYC buyers?
Years past there were some great articles with regard to NYC equipment, such as Jeff Eglish's article on the NYC PS-1 from the old flat kit (the name escapes me) that he converted the 7-foot door to the 6-foot car which I believe kicked off the surge of PS-1s onto the market. Monte Switzer with his Pacemaker Service car and many others. But many of the cars modeled in the Press were not NYC modelers,but like the PRR modeled them as they needed NYC cars in their fleets.

"The vast majority of the B&O's later fleet is missing, as are several other
important roads. Thank goodness some in the B&O Society are getting to
addressing this issue!"

There has voer the years been many B&O offering and more needed. Great articles from Bob Chapman who I beleive actually models B&O. At least now they have their own online magazine.

"I have also been told by hobby store operators, that NYC motive power and
freight doesn't sell. What is the reason for that? Any of us trying to
represent these significant roads has a hard time. One can only hope that
this will be addressed over time."

It does sell but to those who model other roads. It would seem there are no NYC modelers left, but we know that is not true. Their own Mike Dudley was on track and then pulled out for personal reasons.

"I am only one of a host of PRR modelers that at least attempt to write
articles about the Prototype, and its modeling. When was the last time you
saw a good article about an NYC freight car? Where is the information about
using the great P2K "Greenville" gon to model one of the tens of thousands of
clones that the NYC and P&LE purchased? Where are the System modelers
displaying their models? We would love to see them!

Elden Gatwood"

The quandry in the industry si where are the NYC modelers that are also buyers? Perhaps they are just not as serious as the rest of the community.

Tim,
With regard to the B&O Wagon top car I think the reason that no one wants to tool it is that it has already been tooled and never offered by the company that tooled it. So, no one wants to start only to have the other tooling show up in the form of kits/built-up models by the other source sitting on the tooloing. So, we may never see the car.

Greg Martin

________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NYC Steel Boxcars, New Models?

Tim O'Connor wrote:

But seriously, I have pointed out before that us SP modelers are
really in hog heaven these days -- we can model about 95% of the new
SP box cars built from 1920 to 1950 in HO scale, for example. And
about 90% of PFE ice reefers. Perhaps PRR and ATSF fans can say as
much, but not NP, UP, D&RGW, to name just a few. I think C&O, B&O, NYC
(the non-PRR eastern giants) are neglected on the whole.

Remember, Tim, Elden's comment was about gondolas. Care to make
that same calculation about SP gondolas? Now I'm sure there ARE
neglected roads, and didn't mean to imply otherwise, only that most of
us feel that OUR road, obviously important since it's MY favorite, has
some much-needed prototypes with no model.
Inclusion of the D&RGW in your list is probably wrong--in the
sense that it had a pretty small car fleet. I personally find that road
quite interesting and would like to have more D&RGW cars available (I'm
a Western modeler, after all), but nationally it WAS a small fleet. If
you look at your list (B&O, C&O, NYC) and leave off the coal hoppers,
the shortcomings are certainly reduced. But as I said, of COURSE there
are neglected roads out there.
At least some of them are neglected because (a) they have few
modelers, or (b) their modelers don't buy much. Any hobby store owner
can tell you in a minute which roads sell, and which don't. Big
surprise: the latter aren't well covered. I doubt we'll ever see the
day when the Gilbert-Nelson freight car percentages are used as
marketing tools by the manufacturers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history





________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Key Imports brought in three variations of the NYC H-5 back in the mid-80's.
Built by SKI, they are excellent models and are very difficult to find.
Hugh T. Guillaume



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Westerfield wrote:

Elden - We attended one NYCHS annual meeting. Sales did not make back our expenses. The layout they had running in the ballroom was Lionel! - Al Westerfield

About ten years ago, Charlie Smith, then the NYCSHS Boss, telephoned me about an NYC Merchandise Car Schedule. As far as he was concerned, the only worthwhile model railroad was a loop around a room.

Tim Gilbert

Well, for our part the "Early Bird" double door and P&E green single door 50' cars pretty much paid for the tooling of the Despatch ends and roof ("pretty" cars). All other more common schemes are dying a slow and painful death as kits. We'll see about RTR.....

Bill Schneider

On Apr 13, 2007, at 11:08 AM, timboconnor@... wrote:

Not all signals were visual -- there were whistle signals too.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Charles Morrill" <badlands@...>
> Also remember the era of roof walks and decorating tops of cars was
before
> radios to pass signals were available. Signals from yard and train
crews to
> the engineer were all visual both day and night.

You're all overlooking what was perhaps the most common method of
signaling between road engines and helpers on long trains, the use of
the air brake valve to "twitch" the air pressure gauge.

Richard Hendrickson

Wow, thanks, Tony! About time!



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 1:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NYC Steel Boxcars, New Models?



Gatwood, Elden wrote:

I am only one of a host of PRR modelers that at least attempt to write
articles about the Prototype, and its modeling. When was the last
time you saw a good article about an NYC freight car?

Gosh, Elden, there's one in the new RMJ <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history