Date   

Re: Live Poultry

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 21, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Ian Cranstone wrote:

On 21-Nov-06, at 10:21 AM, Jerry Dziedzic wrote:
Discussion about the 1931 Erie freight consists included some comments
about LPTX cars. By 1945, the earliest ORER I have, LPTX listings have
disappeared, but I located PTCX which was assigned to Poultry Transit
Company of Chicago. Was PTC a successor to Palace or LPT?
I would say not. According to my listing of AAR reporting marks
(www.nakina.net/report.html), the LPTX mark was transferred to North
American Car sometime in the July 1932-April 1938 period, and was
last listed circa 1941. Although I have by no means worked my way
through all ORERs, they were not listed in 1/1943.

PTCX marks appeared by January 1945, and lasted until circa 1950.
During the 1920s the major operators of live poultry cars were the Palace Poultry Car Co. and the Live Poultry Transportation Co. Ca. 1931 the Palace Poultry Car Co. acquired the Live Poultry Transportation Co. and PPKX and LPTX cars were combined into a single fleet. By 1938, the Palace Co. and its PPKX and LPTX reporting marks had been acquired by the North American Car Corporation. By that time, live poultry transportation had diminished to a small fraction of its former size and many of the poultry cars North American had taken over were stripped to the underframes and rebuilt into 36' wood meat reefers.

In 1945 North American was operating 75 live poultry cars under PPKX reporting marks (the LPTX reporting marks having disappeared) and the Poultry Transportation Co. of Chicago was operating another 249 such cars under PTCX reporting marks. By 1950, however, all the live poultry cars appear to have been taken out of service.

Richard Hendrickson


Rib Side Car - improved

dphobbies
 

Once again I am taking the liberty to toot Georges horn since he
won't do it himself. He has just delivered a new version of his
MILW rib side 40' box. He calls it a short rib with 6' door. The
improvement is they have seperate grab irons and ladders. A quantum
improvement. So far they come unpainted (kit #4260) with decals and
painted/lettered Route of the Hiawathas (kit #4261). Each are $19.39
and are available at any good, caring hobby shop as well as here.

Another new item is Railshops has released two new lettering schemes
for their carbon black car. They are GACX Charles Eneu Johnson and
the beautiful script of Continental Carbon Company. Each are
$35.00. Same blah, blah about hobbby shops.

Happy Thanksgiving for those that do, and what the heck, Happy
Thanksgiving for those that don't.

Ron Sebastian
Des Plaines Hobbies
1468 Lee Street
Des Plaines,Il 60018
1-847-297-2118 fax: 1-847-297-4976


Re: Atlas Ore Cars

John Riba
 

Hello Group,

I took a picture of an AC&Y ore car in New London OH. It was a former B&LE car.
I also saw a single B&LE ore car on a PC train, no picture.

John F. Riba

Justin Kahn <harumd@...> wrote:
From what I've heard over the years (and what I remember of what I've
heard), there WAS a prototype for all the older-run Atlas cars; the problem
was/is that most of them were very limited prototypes. My sole Atlas car
(somewhat re-detailed, as much as one can--sow's ears, etc) and my three or
four brass Max Gray ore cars will almost certainly end up in a sand and
gravel operation, as I don't believe such ore cars ended up in interchange
as a usual thing.
I shall be interested in the experts citing exceptions to my assumption.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

I'm almost afraid to ask. Does the old Atlas O scale ore car have a
prototype?
Curt Fortenberry
Yes, a series of cars built for B&LE. Unfortunately, not correct for
any of the upper Great Lakes ore roads.
Jack Mullen
Some of the B&LE cars were sold to the C&NW in later years. I shot a
slide of one of them in northern Wisconsin near uppper Michigan back in
1976. You could still make out the B&LE lettering under the new C&NW
lettering. Maybe someone else will have more informaton. I know this is
way past the steam era.
Stan Schwedler
__________________________________________________________
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Re: MoP 52'6" Beth Steel gon; and sunshine kit 70.10

mopacfirst
 

I don't see any replies to this message, and it's already several
weeks old. For the record, I'd been preparing for conferences and
then been out of the country for some time, so my backlog of website
reading is enormous.

These cars were pretty vanilla, and their biggest distinguishing
feature is that the ribs didn't extend over the fishbelly. They were
all the same height, and were riveted. The ends were early
dreadnought. They were signature cars on the MoP, used for all kinds
of junk, both literally and figuratively.

I'm regretfully behind in my purchases of cars (my wife would say
thankfully) and after my last order of Sunshine cars arrives I'll buy
some of these. I'm currently building some F&C earlier MoP gons (the
non-fishbelly cars) which may round out my purchases of that car.

Ron Merrick


--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

Hi all;



Does anyone out there own a Sunshine kit of this car; kit 70.10;
and could
someone who does, or is familiar with the prototype tell me:

1) if the car itself has any unusual features?

2) Do the ribs extend down into the fishbelly, or are they
all even
length? And, are they riveted?

3) What the fixed dread end looks like (i.e., rib taper)?

Thanks very much in advance!

Elden Gatwood


Re: Soo Express Refrigerator 4266

Charlie Vlk
 

Since Dennis mentioned the Walthers cars, I would be remiss if I didn't also call your attention to the second production run of Broadway Limited's car.
The roadnumbers have been selected so as to not conflict with the Walthers release. Some of the roadnames have not been previously available except on
brass models.
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources/Broadway Limited


American Refrigerator Express
Chicago Great Western
Chicago Rock Island & Pacific
Denver & Rio Grande Western
GARE (General American)
Kansas City southern
Louisville & Nashville
Minneapolis & St Louis
Missouri, Kansas & Texas
Missouri Pacific
Nashville, Chattanooga & St Louis
Nickel Plate Road
Northern Refrigerator Car
Pacific Fruit Express
REX (Hunter Green, red and white Herald, Dulux Gold Lettering)
Railway Express Agency (Pullman Green)
REX (Hunter Green, red and white Herald, white Lettering)
Seaboard Air Line
Soo Line
St. Louis-San Fransisco (Frisco)
Texas & Pacific
Union Refrigerator Transit URTX (yellow sides)
Union Refrigerator Transit (Pullman Green)
Wabash
Western Pacific


pre-war Carbon Black hopper info

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

In part inspired by Richard's Carbon Black hopper talk, I picked up one of
the Rail Shops Cabon Black Hopper kits at Naperville, along with their new
decals for Continental Carbon Company.

In looking at my 1940 CBC, I see that the Continental car is pictured, but
the photo raises some questions. The Continental car was built by General
American, not AC&F. Although nearly identical, I can see some
differences, including a drop grab for the bottom grab iron of the end
ladder and more importantly, power handbrakes with a vertical wheel
instead of the horizontal brake wheel of the AC&F car (and the model). I
also note some differences in the end structure, such as what appears to
be an additional vertical member to which the arm for the brake lever
fulcrum attaches (Note that this is also incorrectly depicted in the Rail
Shops direction for the AC&F car). The car in the 1940 CBC is lettered
GACX 40116. The 1943 ORER shows the series 40112-40199, but there are no
cars listed under the total number of cars. The decals imply that the
Continental car should have reporting marks of CCCX 358. But, I note that
ALL the decals offered so far appear to show build dates of 1947 or later,
which (IIRC from Richard's talk) is incorrect for the pre-war style of AB
brakes on the model. So I would love some help with the following:

1) What handbrakes were used on the General American car?
2) Any one have a B-end photo handy of one of these cars to help place
that additional channel?
3) What would be the correct reporting marks, numbersand build dates for
Continental Carbon cars in 1944?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Soo Express Refrigerator 4266

Charlie Vlk
 

Dennis-
Thanks for sharing the link for the Soo Line Express Reefer.
Anyone wishing to save a copy of the picture may find the following useful:
Some images on the web cannot be copied and pasted directly, but you can sometimes get a saveable copy by first
emailing yourself the page (file, email page). Once you receive the email sent to yourself you can often
save the copy by either saving the picture to a file directly or by doing a cut and paste into a program that
accepts pictures (Excel, Word, or a drawing program).
Charlie Vlk


Re: Atlas Ore Cars

Justin Kahn
 

From what I've heard over the years (and what I remember of what I've heard), there WAS a prototype for all the older-run Atlas cars; the problem was/is that most of them were very limited prototypes. My sole Atlas car (somewhat re-detailed, as much as one can--sow's ears, etc) and my three or four brass Max Gray ore cars will almost certainly end up in a sand and gravel operation, as I don't believe such ore cars ended up in interchange as a usual thing.
I shall be interested in the experts citing exceptions to my assumption.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

I'm almost afraid to ask. Does the old Atlas O scale ore car have a
prototype?
Curt Fortenberry
Yes, a series of cars built for B&LE. Unfortunately, not correct for
any of the upper Great Lakes ore roads.
Jack Mullen
Some of the B&LE cars were sold to the C&NW in later years. I shot a
slide of one of them in northern Wisconsin near uppper Michigan back in
1976. You could still make out the B&LE lettering under the new C&NW
lettering. Maybe someone else will have more informaton. I know this is
way past the steam era.
Stan Schwedler
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline


Re: Soo Express Refrigerator 4266

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I was surfing among photos of the Vancouver waterfront again, and came
across a shot of a Soo Express Refrigerator car, No.4266, apparently
taken
in June 1948. The scene is clealry Vancouver B.C. It can be found
by using
the search term "447-1854" at the City of Vancouver web site,
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/ctyclerk/archives/notdream/ws_photo.htm

I'd like to know that the car was running in 1946 (wood sheathing would
suggest undoubtedly, but you never know). I'd also like to locate
drawings
or other reference info on this car, and know what colour it would have
been.

At last, an easy one, Rob. The Soo Line had 100 express reefers on
lease from General American, starting in 1931 IIRC. All 100 cars,
4200 – 4299, are still listed in the ORPTE in 1946, with the number
dropping to 73 cars in 1949. No cars remain in the next listing I
have, 1953.

These cars are also easy to model; Walthers has done them, lettered
for Soo Line even. See:

http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-5482

Yes, the Pullman green color is correct, and has been confirmed by old
timers I've spoken with. Apparently, the terms of the lease called for
standard General American paint and lettering, with the letter board
repainted to reflect the identity of the leasing road. The lettering
on the Walthers model is a perfect match to a builders photo of one of
the Soo Line cars published in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia a couple
of years ago.

Dennis


Re: Atlas ore cars

coronadoscalemodels
 

Yes, a series of cars built for B&LE. Unfortunately, not correct for
any of the upper Great Lakes ore roads.

Jack Mullen
Some of the B&LE cars were sold to the C&NW in later years. I shot a
slide of one of them in northern Wisconsin near uppper Michigan back in
1976. You could still make out the B&LE lettering under the new C&NW
lettering. Maybe someone else will have more informaton. I know this is
way past the steam era.

Stan Schwedler
Coronado Scale Models


1937 national box car fleet query

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

I am working towards comparing the numbers of box cars featured in the new
Focus on Freight Cars book with the national fleet of box cars. Where can I
find the data that reviews the numbers of cars on a national level? I know
there are recapitulation tables for many larger roads listed in their ORER
data, but I need to see the big picture. I am specifically looking for:

* total box cars
* total auto cars
* total fifty-foot box cars

Thanks for any help or direction you can provide.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Atlas ore cars

Jack Mullen
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Curt Fortenberry" <arrphoto@...> wrote:

I'm almost afraid to ask. Does the old Atlas O scale ore car have a
prototype?

Curt Fortenberry
Yes, a series of cars built for B&LE. Unfortunately, not correct for
any of the upper Great Lakes ore roads.

Jack Mullen


Re: Accuracy of Con-Cor Produce or "Watermelon" car?

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Thanks Charlie and Dean. There is an article in an issue of RMC that covers a conversion of a Walthers/TM old time box car. That might be the way to go.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Vlk
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Accuracy of Con-Cor Produce or "Watermelon" car?


The Con-Cor "Watermelon" car is just a production run from former AHM castings. I don't believe Con-Cor obtained the tooling, just got a run of parts from Europe that they printed using new artwork.
The car was likely a copy of the old Ambroid or NorthEastern wood kit, so its accuracy is doubtful. It was a part of an old time series that shared the same underframe and mold parts, further reducing the chance of it being accurate.
Charlie Vlk


Soo Express Refrigerator 4266

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I was surfing among photos of the Vancouver waterfront again, and came
across a shot of a Soo Express Refrigerator car, No.4266, apparently taken
in June 1948. The scene is clealry Vancouver B.C. It can be found by using
the search term "447-1854" at the City of Vancouver web site,
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/ctyclerk/archives/notdream/ws_photo.htm

I'd like to know that the car was running in 1946 (wood sheathing would
suggest undoubtedly, but you never know). I'd also like to locate drawings
or other reference info on this car, and know what colour it would have
been.

Thanks in advance for any help

Rob Kirkham


Atlas ore cars

Curt Fortenberry <arrphoto@...>
 

I'm almost afraid to ask. Does the old Atlas O scale ore car have a
prototype?

Curt Fortenberry


Re: Live Poultry

proto48er
 

Guys - There is/was a prototype live poultry car at the National
Museum of Transport in St Louis, Mo. It looks like it may have been
in revenue service as recently as the 1950's. The last time I saw it
(1995), they had it over by the MP interchange track in "original"
unrestored condition. You could still see some original orange paint
on the steel ends, and the cage screening was largely intact. I do
not recall reporting marks on it - may have been illegible. It was an
all steel car. Ed Hawkins may have more information on this car.
A.T. Kott


Re: Accuracy of Con-Cor Produce or "Watermelon" car?

Charlie Vlk
 

The Con-Cor "Watermelon" car is just a production run from former AHM castings. I don't believe Con-Cor obtained the tooling, just got a run of parts from Europe that they printed using new artwork.
The car was likely a copy of the old Ambroid or NorthEastern wood kit, so its accuracy is doubtful. It was a part of an old time series that shared the same underframe and mold parts, further reducing the chance of it being accurate.
Charlie Vlk


Re: House car for groceries?

Greg Martin
 

I have watched this thread from the very beginning and I find it interesting because it seems so current and I have to smile because it is very enlightening to see what happened then and how it repeats itself today... You can still find some "old Heads" in car management even today, some go way back to the "Q" or the "SP" What's old is new again...

Paul vocalizes the customer postion... and it sounds so familiar and he is right and it still goes on today and I am in another demanding industry, forest products. The customer demands cars and if not then there is always another carrier ready to fill the void and hell to pay in marketing and operations.

Malcolm tells us the sitiuation from the side of a car applicator. He's right they dedicate the cars to a pool that if properly managed there is not issues with guys like Paul... And if properly execute in the yard then all is well and Paul. And they really try hard to make it all happen. It is what they do and they dohave a plan, providing a local clerk doesn't "screw it up" (we no longer have local clerks though), so you guys in car management from that era were lucky because a good local clerk could bail you out... Or Not!

But wait.. theres more as Paul recognizes and Russ supports... IF the crews do what they can to make the program work then all is well but if they are ask to fix something by a local cleark or yard master... OH WELL! Off to some distant yard with your car supply and hope you can get the cars back... For us it is Hinkle, Eugene, Brooklyn,Noth Platte or ROSEVILLE! Good luck...

Things haven't changed much, we were just given two cars last night that were not on our "customer assigned car list" (UP calls them RGs) but guess what they're loaded by lunch and on their way with revenue loads and car management, well go punt! The customers just appreciate their loads on a car and a good waybill...

In a perfect world... but as Russ says enough...

Greg Martin

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Re: Accuracy of Con-Cor Produce or "Watermelon" car?

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I don't know for sure how accurate the Con-Cor car is, but I believe
it was based on the ACL car, so it's at least a stand-in. The details
aren't up to the standards of Proto/Intermountain/Red Caboose, but
that's no surprise. The grabs come as a "ladder", which goes into
recesses and is supposed to blend into the grooved siding. It works
OK if you don't look too closely, I guess.
The problem I have with mine is the coupler height is too low. I
tried shimming up with a Kadee "red" washer, and it didn't help much.
I think I need some offset-shank couplers for this car. The coupler
box is kind of odd, maybe I need to scrape it off and install a Kadee
box instead, using some styrene to LOWER the box to the right height,
but it's been low on my priority list.
Dean Payne


--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

Hi:

Has anyone ever compared the accuracy of the Con-Cor
Produce/Watermelon car against a prototype ACL ventilated boxcar in
the 17000 - 18999 series?

Thanks,
KL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: House car for groceries?

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Let's note in all fairness to Malcolm that much of what has been
discussed in the past on this list is ACTUAL operating people's
experience and attitudes. What top management thought or TRIED to do is
often another story entirely, particularly with railroads. Whether NYC
actual PRACTICE followed what Malcolm describes remains to be
determined.

==========================

I'm talking about what actually happened on the NYC. I spent enough time looking at train consists and car movement reports, along with some time in yard offices, to know what was ACTUALLY happening on the NYC, just as Paul can describe what actually happened on the SP.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

138981 - 139000 of 196997