Date   

Re: Athearn Santa Fe Reefers

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Has anyone determined which Reboxx wheelsets are correct for these cars. I measured and got 0.980 (or thereabouts) but would like to confirm this before I order the wheels.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Mexican box cars in the US

ed_mines
 

What's the consensus on Mexican box cars entering the US in the steam
era?

Would they be held for ransome?

Ed


Re: Couplers

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Last night we went to a friend's house for an op session. I, being the
proud new daddy of the new Genesis M&StL F units, naturally wanted to
show them off. As I'm carefully unwrapping my babies the host says "The
first thing you want to do is get rid of those couplers." I don't know
whose couplers Athearn uses, but I guess they aren't very good. Another
guy brought a pair of new Bowser/Stewart U boats. They didn't move a
foot and came uncoupled. We ran the engines apart and one was only
slightly faster than the other. We coupled them back together and they
uncoupled again in short order. I don't know who makes those couplers,
but I had to replace them on my Bowser covered hoppers too. So, to me
it looks like if you want to run something other than Kadees, you
should only buy a couple pair to try out before going whole hog. The
host had tried the scale Accumate couplers and liked them, but gave up
on them because they wouldn't couple on his curves.
Clark Propst


empty car waybills.

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Despite my possibly negative appearing comments about emoty car waybills, actually I think the discipline that they impose on the operation is good. As I reflect on the empty distribution by locals situation, I can see that the question could be handled by having an open ended destination on the bill, something like "for distribution enroute". Naturally the clerks in different yards would have different abbreviations for that , like "dist", "xx" or whatever.

The positive thing about requiring some paper to move a car is that it forces someone to actually think about where the car is going. When NYC in the 60's (but problem was the same in STMFC era) was trying to get a handle on controlling car utilization, empty cars being thoughtlessly sent somewhare else was a big problem.

I recall that when I made my first stock investment in 1961 (GN and SAL) the Q was one of the railroads that was regarded as a good investment.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


ART reefer info, the definitive statement, from one who knows

asychis <asychis@...>
 

To all our customers. In order to try and stem the tsunami of
confusion caused by the problems with our ART kits, PLEASE read the
following regarding the three "types" of cars we are and will be
offering.

ART "mistake kits" 8 numbers available now $15.95
ART "correct kits" due Nov., no numbers, with decals $18.95
ART assembled Due in Nov., 8 numbers $29.95

"Mistake" kits were a run of 200 that had the underframe tabs
incorrectly painted yellow and came with numbers. We had originally
requested that no numbers be applied. So, there are two "goofs" on
these kits. If you can live with the numbers and want to apply a
little black paint to the underframe (instruction sheet included with
purchase), these are a great buy. As of this writing, there are a
little under 100 still on the shelves. There are eight numbers
available. PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO ORDER THESE FROM OUR WEBSITE. EITHER
CONTACT US DIRECTLY AT amarillorail@... OR GO TO e-Bay AND ORDER
VIA OUR FIXED PRICE SALE. If you have ordered kits off of our
website and are expecting the "mistake kits" please reorder using the
above instructions.

Shipping is via USPS Priority Mail. Shipping is $7.00 for 1-4 kits,
$14.00 for 5-8, and so forth.

"Correct kits" will be a run of 200 with the correct paint and no
numbers. We will supply a set of Oddball's Decals so that you can
apply whatever numbers and reweigh dates you prefer. These will
hopefully be available in mid to late November (if InterMountain
lives up to their promise). If you have placed an order via the
website for kits, this is what you will get.

The same rules apply for the assembled cars as for the "correct
kits". None are available now. We hope that they will be here mid-
November. If you ordered assembled cars, your reservation is intact.

We do not bill credit cards or cash checks until orders are packed
and ready to ship.

I am terribly sorry for the confusion. I will be happy to help you
sort this out if you have additional questions. You can e-mail me
directly at amarillorail@.... This is probably the best way of
getting your question answered. Hopefully, this message will also
appear on our websit in the next day or so. I will keep posting
the "mistake kits" on e-Bay until they are sold out.

Sorry I did not get this posted much earlier, but for some strange
reason when I purged my Yahoogroups list of some useless sites, I
accidentally purged this site as well. Now I'm back on (obviously)
and ready to roll.

Jerry Michels


Re: House car for groceries?

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Malcom,

Both valid points. In general locals would either tell the
Yardmaster the day before how many grain boxes they would
need for the next day or would have cars left for them at
some point to use as they saw fit. For example the Local
that worked between Rock Falls and Earlville would have cars
available at Earlville. Once they were under the control of
the Local they no longer needed waybills.

As to multiple cars you were really not supposed to but
sometimes you cheated. The reasoning there was that when
these cars got to another yard they could just cross out and
change your destination. With multiple cars that process
would be a little more difficult.

By "Interchange Report" I would presume you are referring to
the official interchange. In the Chicago area the official
interchange was handled on a monthly basis by accounting
offices and would not be available at the time of delivery.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolm Laughlin
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, 06 November, 2006 10:05
Subject: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries?


Posted by: "Russ Strodtz" > Yes, all empty cars had to move on waybills. That was a quirk
of the CB&Q and was a time consuming process..
--------------------------------------

Interesting, I had never heard of a railroad of that era consistently using waybills for empties, but it is one way to keep some control of empty car flow. What happened when yard A got orders to send 40 empty boxes the B and at B there were orders to send 20 to C and 20 to D. Then each car was distributed to some industry. That's a lot of waybills per load. Seems like a time to use multi-car waybills. Once they were on a wya freight for distribution, waybills would seem to be impractical if the practice was to put the first two empties at ABC co. and the next three at DE&E Co, etc., especially if the clerk got the order on the track wrong when assigning the cars.
=======================

> Cars received from a connection without waybills were either held or returned.
-------------------------------------------------------

But empty general service cars returning on record rights or being home road cars did not require waybills, just a line on the interchange report.



Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: ART reefer info - kits and decals

Charlie Duckworth <trduck@...>
 

AT
The only wood ART reefer I've seen is the one at the NMoT in St. Louis.

I even worked on the same floor as the ART company and asked if they
had a diagram book I could copy - didn't know what I was talking
about.....

Charlie


Re: ART reefer info

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

The new action number (68 available) is 330047565688



Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
pullmanboss
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 1:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ART reefer info



Order on-line at eBay. Item number: 330044351096
http://cgi.ebay. <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?>
com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=330044351096&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:11
That auction is now shown as ended.

Tom Madden


Re: Derailments, Coupler Swing, and related topics ...

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

The worst problems occur in reverse 'S' curves without or with poor
easements.



Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jim
Betz
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Derailments, Coupler Swing, and related topics ...



Denny/et al,

I suspect that the size of the head of the coupler is the least
significant issue with respect to reliable coupling/uncoupling.

Has anyone on this list ever seen anything that talks about the
relationships between coupler shaft length, amount of swing in the
coupler (as determined by the width of the coupler box), the distance
of the swing point of the coupler from the mounting point of the
truck, car length, and track curvature ... as all of those relate to
reliable operations. (Yes, I know that wheel profile and flange
depth is related as well ... for the purposes of this discussion
I'm willing to defer that part of the equation to a later time when
it makes more sense ... at least to me.)

For instance, it is common knowledge that 90-foot cars with body
mounted couplers wont go thru an 18-inch radius curve without
putting so much side force on the wheels that they will derail.
Similarly, if your layout has no turnouts smaller than a #10 and
no curves smaller than 30" radius you can reliably operate a lot of
equipment that simply won't do on a layout with more restrictive
curvatures.
The real railroads all had operating rules that 'prohibited' certain
types of equipment on certain routes - and I've seen the crew of 4449
literally walking-and-watching it thru a section of track to ensure
that it didn't derail due to tight curvature. We need the same thing
for our model railroads as well. An example of which is that on the
club I'm a member of we have a section of track known as "the branch"
and that track was built to be reliable with 4-axle diesels and does
not support 6-axle trucks ... and we have designated it as such.

A lot of the products we use are 'compromised' (ie. designed) based
upon the desire to operate on track such as Atlas 18" snap track. Some
of those design decisions are built in to our 'legacy' products. If
we had some kind of table/guidelines that addressed the issues with
respect to a variety of curvatures we'd be able to determine just how
much scale accuracy our layout(s) will realistically tolerate.

So has any one ever seen a table/formula that describes this
geometry in 'realistic fashion' ... ???
- Jim in San Jose


Re: Interchange of Mexican freight cars?

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Back in the '60s, a neighbor with whom I rode the bus, was a car agent(?) for
the Pennsy. His job was to track down missing cars. There was a group of box
cars that wound up in Mexican limbo. He was told to forget it...it was a common
problem. He claimed to have never lost a car and became obsessed. He took a
vacation in Mexico and tracked down the cars. They were on a remote unused
siding and were being lived in by a half dozen families. They were so chewed up
that he wrote them off, but they weren't lost!

CJ Riley


--- Dave Nelson <muskoka@...> wrote:

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Hi:

Looking through the ORER there are quite a few Mexican railroads with
a sizeable number of cars. It seems to me that Canadian cars were
quite freely interchanged but not those from Mexico. How extensive
was the interchange of Mexican cars in the US? How should the
Mexican car numbers be reflected in our car fleets?

Depends on what you mean by freely. Canadian carloads sent south represent
only 10% of all Canadian carloadings, some portion of which would be in US
cars being sent home. IMO that's not freely interchanged. OTOH if you mean
with a minimum of problems, then, yes, freely is probably the word to use.

As for Mexican cars, based on what I've read the only proper use of the word
free would be in the context of US roads not getting their good condition
cars returned. Ever. Or getting a bad order Mexican car numbered for a US
road. And trade itself was no doubt less than what was seen with Canada.

IIRC there were periodic embargo's placed against exports to Mexaco because
the cars were not being returned.

Dave Nelson






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Re: Lettering on SFRD roof top

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 7, 2006, at 12:07 PM, David Karkoski wrote:

I am finishing the assembly of a Sunshine SFRD reefer and would like
clarification on reporting marks on roof. When at Naperville I noted
that Stan R's SFRD cars had reporting marks on the roof. Was that the
common practice or is it specific to car series? Time period of
interest1950.
David, it depends on whether the car you are modeling had the original hatch cover arrangement, with the covers hinged at the ends of the car and opening toward the center, or the later one (designed to fold flat and clear mechanical icing machines) which had the covers hinged toward the center of the car and opening towards the ends. On cars with the earlier arrangement, the reporting marks and numbers were stenciled on the right hand hatch cover at each end so that they could be read from the icing platform when open and standing vertical against the hatch cover rests. On cars with the later arrangement, such as the mid-to-late 1950s reefers modeled by Stan, the reporting marks and numbers were on the roof above the doors.

Richard Hendrickson


Details of rebuilt M&StL Fowler clone boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I have a few questions about some MSTL Fowler clone boxcars
following rebuilding in the 1930s. The cars in question are from the
series MSTL 18000-18998, 500 cars built in 1916 by Bettendorf. They
were identical to a series of Rock Island boxcars, RI 44700-45699,
built in 1915. A prototype photo, taken after the car was weighed in
May, 1939, can be found on page 89 of the June 2006 issue of RMC. As
built, these cars would have had Murphy plain mullion roofs and two
braces on the doors. In 1934, the cars were rebuilt and new roofs
were installed. What I would like to know is:

1. What sort of roof was used in the rebuilding?

2. Were the two door braces replaced with a single brace in the
center of the door?

3. Was the "The Peoria Gateway" slogan and the attendant lettering
common on these cars?

4. When were these cars off the roster?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Lettering on SFRD roof top

David Karkoski <karkoskd@...>
 

I am finishing the assembly of a Sunshine SFRD reefer and would like
clarification on reporting marks on roof. When at Naperville I noted
that Stan R's SFRD cars had reporting marks on the roof. Was that the
common practice or is it specific to car series? Time period of
interest1950.



David Karkoski


Speedwitch M26D/M26E Durea Underframe

S. Busch <SCSBusch@...>
 

I just received Speedwitch's very nice B&O M-26D/M-26E Dureau underframe kit - underframe and decals only - and have been itching to start on it.

But, I can't find a reference as to how the train line brake pipe is routed, especially as to how and where it crosses the center sill. Rather than making my own assumptions (and finding out later I'm wrong?) can anyone please offer some advice?

Thanks!

Regards,
Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks, Larry! I think you need one of these, too.

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Larry
Kline
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:55 AM
To: STMFC list
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

From a search at the CA State RR museum library, 1500-1506 first appear
in the 10/54 ORER.

The listings I have are:
10/55 - 1500-1510
10/56 through 1/61 - 1500-1512
1/62 through 10/64 - 1511, 1512
4/66 - not listed under NKP or P&WV

I don't know why they were acquired or how they were used.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Larry Kline
 

From a search at the CA State RR museum library, 1500-1506 first appear in the 10/54 ORER.

The listings I have are:
10/55 - 1500-1510
10/56 through 1/61 - 1500-1512
1/62 through 10/64 - 1511, 1512
4/66 - not listed under NKP or P&WV

I don't know why they were acquired or how they were used.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Couplers

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Gee Guys, I'm sorry I mentioned Denny AnsBach in my post<G>
Clark ProPst

We came over before 1780 Denny...see I listen to you.


Derailments, Coupler Swing, and related topics ...

Jim Betz
 

Denny/et al,

I suspect that the size of the head of the coupler is the least
significant issue with respect to reliable coupling/uncoupling.

Has anyone on this list ever seen anything that talks about the
relationships between coupler shaft length, amount of swing in the
coupler (as determined by the width of the coupler box), the distance
of the swing point of the coupler from the mounting point of the
truck, car length, and track curvature ... as all of those relate to
reliable operations. (Yes, I know that wheel profile and flange
depth is related as well ... for the purposes of this discussion
I'm willing to defer that part of the equation to a later time when
it makes more sense ... at least to me.)

For instance, it is common knowledge that 90-foot cars with body
mounted couplers wont go thru an 18-inch radius curve without
putting so much side force on the wheels that they will derail.
Similarly, if your layout has no turnouts smaller than a #10 and
no curves smaller than 30" radius you can reliably operate a lot of
equipment that simply won't do on a layout with more restrictive
curvatures.
The real railroads all had operating rules that 'prohibited' certain
types of equipment on certain routes - and I've seen the crew of 4449
literally walking-and-watching it thru a section of track to ensure
that it didn't derail due to tight curvature. We need the same thing
for our model railroads as well. An example of which is that on the
club I'm a member of we have a section of track known as "the branch"
and that track was built to be reliable with 4-axle diesels and does
not support 6-axle trucks ... and we have designated it as such.

A lot of the products we use are 'compromised' (ie. designed) based
upon the desire to operate on track such as Atlas 18" snap track. Some
of those design decisions are built in to our 'legacy' products. If
we had some kind of table/guidelines that addressed the issues with
respect to a variety of curvatures we'd be able to determine just how
much scale accuracy our layout(s) will realistically tolerate.

So has any one ever seen a table/formula that describes this
geometry in 'realistic fashion' ... ???
- Jim in San Jose


Re: House car for groceries?

Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tony,

I have little doubt what was being done in 1965 was being done
before 1960. The CB&Q's "Empty Slip Bill" was an old form. I
have a couple pads somewhere, if I see one I'll get a date.

At the yard in question we only made three groups. The Clerk
or Agent/Operator or Operator used a certain column to show
the grouping. That was all that concerned the crew.

As to wheel reports and setout lists in most cases these were
made by the Conductor off the waybills. On the CB&Q wheel reports
were traditionally made from the rear of the train. That gave the
Conductor room to add pickups at the bottom. Setout lists were
usually from the head end. You could not always count on getting
a setout list. If you did not you made one from the waybills.

In a much later era but in accordance with the same policy I
once had a Conductor who had picked up about 75 cars from the
GB&W. The GB&W Conductors usually left a car number only list
with the bills and our Conductors usually just numbered that
list. This Conductor just handed me a pile of neatly folded
waybills. I asked for a list and he said "That's your list,
just don't get them out of order". When I left that morning I
took an internal road where I could see that track. Working
from memory I did not see any positioning errors in that track.
This Conductor did not usually work the end that picked up from
the GB&W.

Always something different to keep you on your toes.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, 06 November, 2006 11:50
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: House car for groceries?


Malcolm Laughlin wrote (replying to Russ Strodtz):
> Interesting, I had never heard of a railroad of that era
> consistently using waybills for empties, but it is one way to keep
> some control of empty car flow.
> But empty general service cars returning on record rights or being
> home road cars did not require waybills, just a line on the
> interchange report.

Can we define whether Russ' mention of CB&Q waybilling empty
cars was at all common before 1960 (the period of this list)? I have
always heard of MTYs in the 1950s being handled as Malcolm describes,
just as switchlist or wheel report entries.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Mike and Greg;



Thanks for the info! The car with the Viking roof would be a natural for a
resin kit, wouldn't it?



I need to get off my duff and send an order to Stan.



The thing that concerns me about a bash is that the side panels aren't
duplicated. Those two rows of rivets, one being on top of the overlapping
part of the sheet being so prominent, is a pretty stand-out feature of the
car.



Greg, you are right; the small print on the left hand door on the P&WV car
indicates it is sealed. They also added a small wedge in the top left door
track to keep it sealed. I have no idea why the P&WV got two of these,
sealed the door, and installed DF equipment, but the claim that they were
auto parts cars is not confirmed. I suspect it had something to do with the
re-alignment of Rook yard and the P&WV's industries in the very late 50's or
very early 60's that lead to a new customer/need. They do appear to be the
P&WV's only 50-footers.



Mont does great work. I hope I get to see his car someday.



Take care, guys.



Thanks again,



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
tgregmrtn@...
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 6:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NKP DD box featured in MM



Just a note... Stan Rydarwicz des make a 50-foot Viking Roof to replace the
roof of the LL P2K car in his line of resin part. I have photos of one of
these P&WV cars in my collection. From what I understand the 50-foot cars in
this series came from NKP and were listed as single doors because the left
door was sealed shut. I think Larry Kline can share more about this car.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: mononinmonon@... <mailto:mononinmonon%40yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 3:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NKP DD box featured in MM

Elden,

This caught my eye because I had just seen Mont Switzer's model of
this car at the RPM meet in Mishawaka a few week's before. It is an
interesting model with two Des Plaines Hobbies Viking roofs spliced to
50 ft. Lo and behold, the same model shows up in the background of
one of Mont's photos in the same issue. According to the Trains.com
magazine index there was an article by Mont in the July 1996 MM
called: "Auto Parts Box Car" which had to do with a P2k car and the
NKP. Can anyone confirm this is the correct article?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood,
Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

All;

I am sure we are all hoping that what we have heard about Mainline
Modeler
may be only temporary. It would be a great loss to have Bob Hundman
give up
contributing what he does, but it's is also true that he also gave up on
paying at least some of his authors, which couldn't last..

Does anyone know if any of the resin kit manufacturers intend to do
the NKP
double door boxcar(s) that were featured in the August issue of MM?
Does
anyone know the story about the transfer of two of these cars to the
P&WV,
and their intended service? Were the NKP cars DF-equipped? What
was their
service in latter days?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood
__________________________________________________________
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