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Re: Winona Refrigerator Car (WRLX) information wanted - 1937 ORER data enclosed
Rob Adams
Mark;
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My July 1937 ORER lists 18 cars for WRLX, with only interior dimensions listed. They fall into 6 groups of Refrigerator Cars (M.C.B. designation RS), with the following descriptions: Cars 701-706 inclusive, Inside dimensions: length 29 ft, 6 3/4 in., with 8 ft 1 1/2 in., height 7 ft 1 1/2 in., capacity 1728 cu ft, 80000 pounds, (ice bunker capacity 6396 pounds crushed ice, 5772 pounds chunk ice, 156 cu ft measure of capacity). Total, 6 cars Car 707, Inside dimensions: length 29 ft, 6 3/4 in., with 8 ft 3 5/8 in., height 7 ft 1 1/2 in., capacity 1735 cu ft, 80000 pounds, (ice bunker capacity 6396 pounds crushed ice, 5772 pounds chunk ice, 156 cu ft measure of capacity). Total, 1 car Car 708, Inside dimensions: length 29 ft, 6 3/4 in., with 8 ft 1 1/2 in., height 7 ft 1 1/2 in., capacity 1728 cu ft, 80000 pounds, (ice bunker capacity 6396 pounds crushed ice, 5772 pounds chunk ice, 156 cu ft measure of capacity). Total, 1 car Cars 709-712 inclusive, Inside dimensions: length 29 ft, 6 3/4 in., with 8 ft 3 5/8 in., height 7 ft 1 1/2 in., capacity 1735 cu ft, 80000 pounds, (ice bunker capacity 6396 pounds crushed ice, 5772 pounds chunk ice, 156 cu ft measure of capacity). Total, 4 cars Cars 713-714 inclusive, Inside dimensions: length 30 ft, 6 in., with 8 ft 3 in., height 7 ft 2 in., capacity 1803 cu ft, 80000 pounds, (ice bunker capacity 7800 pounds crushed ice, 6700 pounds chunk ice, 185 cu ft measure of capacity). Total, 2 cars Cars 715-718 inclusive, Inside dimensions: length 29 ft, 6 3/4 in., with 8 ft 3 5/8 in., height 7 ft 1 1/2 in., capacity 1735 cu ft, 80000 pounds, (ice bunker capacity 6396 pounds crushed ice, 5772 pounds chunk ice, 156 cu ft measure of capacity). Total, 4 cars Grand Total, 18 cars I hope this is helpful. Kind regards, Rob Adams Mark Plank wrote:
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Rob Adams Wellman, IA steamera@... Modeling the CB&Q RR's Keokuk & Western branch, along with connecting Wabash and CRI&P operations, circa 1938 <http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com> |
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Re: Winona Refrigerator Car (WRLX) information wanted
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Mark Plank wrote:
In 1934 the Winona organized The Winona Refrigerator Car Corporation, which operated twenty-three cars numbered 701 to 723.Mark, I have a photo of a Winona reefer if you need one. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Winona Refrigerator Car (WRLX) information wanted
Mark P.
I'm doing some research on industries served by railroads in the New Paris, IN area, an area served by the Big Four, Wabash and Winona Railway. In 1934 the Winona organized The Winona Refrigerator Car Corporation, which operated twenty-three cars numbered 701 to 723. The primary purpose of the cars were for loading eggs in the Mentone, Indiana area. Mentone was known as the egg basket of the Midwest at this time. <http://yesteryear.clunette.com/winonadarr.html> has "It was the Winona that helped make Mentone famous for its egg production. Eggs were brought from farms to Mentone where they were loaded into Winona refrigerator cars located on a siding track on South Morgan St. The Winona then interchanged the cars with the Wabash Railroad for the trip to New York for distribution. It is estimated that an average of eight to 10 cars, with a peak of 20 carloads of eggs were shipped each week."
I've been side-tracked by a new interest in the Winona. <vbg> I'm looking for roster information on the Winona Refrigerator Car Corporation (WRLX), the Winona Railway subsidiary. The Winona was an interurban started in 1902 that de-electrified in 1938 and lasted until 1952, using the following power starting in 1938: small direct drive propane-powered unit (1938), 65-ton propane-electric locomotive (1938), direct drive gasoline engine (1939), and two 44-ton diesel electrics (1944). Ian Cranstone's site has the following: WRLX: Winona Refrigerator Car Corp. 4/1938-1/1950 WRLX: General American Transportation Corp. 1/1952-4/1961 WRLX: Western Rail Leasing Corp. added 7/1970; eliminated 10/1971 {and various others later after this} All my ORERs are 1930 and earlier, or are after the time of this list. Would anyone be able to help out with ORER information (number of cars, dimensions, etc.)? From secondary (at least) sources, I did find the following: <http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/reefer.ws4d> summarized the January 1954 ORER listings for General American Transportation Corp. (wood car division), showing 5,298 cars, including those lettered W.R.L.X. (no individual count of WRLX cars). <http://www.lonestarregion.com/documents/marker_lamp/private_forfleet.pdf> has 1 WRLX car listed under GATC - unknown date. Questions and assumptions: 1. Where would these cars have come from? Somewhere I had a note saying these were second-hand, but can't find it now. 2. Did GATX buy up the Winona cars? Did they take over the WRLX operations? I'm assuming they didn't just pick up the WRLX reporting marks. 3. Was there a renumbering, either under the Winona or under GATX? See link to number 810 below (cars were 701-723 originally). 4. Mentone also has/had the Nickle Plate, so why would a round-about route to Warsaw, IN, then north to New Paris be preferred by egg shippers? 5. I'm assuming New Paris was used for the interchange with the Wabash (I'm fuzzy on the Winona's southern operations and haven't checked yet for any other Wabash lines down there), as local histories refer to the Winona interchanging eggs, sand from the nearby Leesburg, IN sand pits, and coal from the PRR and NYC with the Wabash in New Paris. WRLX 701 <http://hvrm.railfan.net/historical/winonabox.html> WRLX 703 <http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Reefers/Shorty-reefers/Reefers-shorty-Winona-703-McCarter.jpg > WRLX 721 <http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Reefers/Shorty-reefers/Reefers-shorty-Winona-721-McCarter.jpg > WRLX 810 <http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Reefers/Wood/Reefers-wood-Winona-810-McCarter.jpg> Unknown WRLX <http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Reefers/Shorty-reefers/Reefers-shorty-Winona-McCarter.jpg > 2 barely visible cars <http://davesrailpix.com/odds/in/jpg/win05.jpg> If you are interested in searching for more on the Winona, here are the various names it had. Although I can find no record of it ever being called the Winona Railroad, most web references do refer to it as that. Winona and Warsaw Railway, 1902-1905 Winona Interurban Railway, 1905-1924 Winona Service Company, 1924-1926 Winona Railway Company, 1926-1952 Winona Refrigerator Car Corp. 4/1938-1/1950 There are at least two articles on the Winona that I'm trying to track down in the hope they have more information. One is a Central Electric Railfans' Association bulletin (B-132 on the Northern Indiana Railway apparently has some the connection with the Winona), and the second is an [11/1973?] Traction Heritage (reprint of a [1906?] Street Railway Journal) article. For those still following along, <http://hvrm.railfan.net/historical/025_Mentone.html> is captioned with "Known as the “Egg basket of the Midwest”, Mentone, Indiana was an important point of the Winona Railway. The Winona had a small fleet of refrigerator cars for egg service. Pictured is the Winona’s sub-station and depot at Mentone. Surprisingly the building is still standing, but heavily remodeled. It is on the north side of highway 25 on the east side of town, a giant egg is across the road from it. The Winona passed under the Nickel Plate Road a block south of here. The bridge is still in place, but filled in. Postcard from Bob Albert collection." Thanks for any help! Mark Plank modeling the Toledo & Ohio Central in S scale, but now sidetracked with the Winona -- Search for products and services at: http://search.mail.com |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Denny, I used the stock number as Clark mentioned it was just to easy.
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Interestingly, I spent part of my night manually spacing tiny HO lettering probably about 2" Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car Friends, I would like to know what numbers have been chosen by those |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Denny Anspach It is simply amazing that it taken almost a full year to finish a kitbash project that Greg Martin promised would take "only a few nights" or a "weekend" :-D . ----- Original Message ----- There is a famous tank modeler who is known not just for his skill but his incredibly high completed model production rate, PLUS his regular magazine articles, PLUS his frequent book authorship. When asked at seminars how he does it all, he deadpans: "I don't watch television." KL |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
Greg Martin
Clark writes:
"John, The model that was given to us has the 'late improved dreadnaught ends' I believe the prototype had 'improved dreadnaught ends'. The ones with the large corrugations that look like rolling pins. Fat in the middle, thin at the ends with a fast taper between." "I ended up following the instructions, which were better than most resin kits by the way, because the sides of my body were so badly warped. I couldn't cut the sides off and build up a flat kit. " For those that are building the kit "as is" we included two pieces of styrene rod stock to spread the sides so the underframe will fit comfortably. "I mentioned the instructions, my only complaint with them is that when the underframe was dropped into the body it was way too narrow. I ended up using several styrene strips to 'fill in' the gaps on both sides. Did anyone else have this problem? Or didn't I understand the instructions?" Clark, in the list of kit contents there shows to be 4 pieces of .043"x .043" (scale 4"x 4") styrene square stock, this is meant to be used to build out the void space for a clean fit with the USRA underframe. Look at the upper right hand side of the exploded drawing to see how it fits inside the body at each end of the car... The .030"x .125" is to be added to the edge of the USRA underframe to take up balance of the space on each side. (see the note on the bottom left hand side of the exploded drawing) the some of the two piece times two (as each side get the same treatment) equals the proper wide within a couple of SCALE inches... My bad, after I read you email I went back and re-read my instruction sheets and I totally left it out of the text although it was in the exploded drawing... I finished weathering my car the weekend before the holiday and I had to leave town before I could get photos of the car, but I will try to take them and post them to the photo section this weekend or next, I am juggling a lot right now and I need to get my column out for TKM, so bear with me. Denny, I also used the original numbers for the car even though as I sat down to decal it I told myself to change one nine to a six... Go figure... Bring your cars back to Cocoa Beach as I would like to photo them together. Remember, we will have another "SHAKE AND TAKE" car this year as well... A Kahns Meat Reefer circa 1954+ paint scheme and it will come painted and letter thanks to 5th AVE. Car Shops. Greg Martin |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
Friends, I would like to know what numbers have been chosen by those who have finished/are finishing/are rushing to finish the Cocoa Beach KCS rebuilt boxcar. I would not like to duplicate any of the chosen numbers :-).
It is simply amazing that it taken almost a full year to finish a kitbash project that Greg Martin promised would take "only a few nights" or a "weekend" :-D . Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
I just uploaded two small photos of the KCS car that I built using a BLT
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body and the supplied Accurail underframe. The decals look really silvered in the photos. They are not really that bad. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message -----
From: "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car I realize that the sill is supposed to be inset from the sides. I just |
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Re: Boxcar DF Symbol?
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
walter kierzkowski wrote:
Russ: Ford motor Company developed a lot of these cars for shipping Auto parts to their different Auto assembly plants by there own engineering dept. They requirered special racks for different items.. like car sides, Batterys, all types of bins and racks for quick unloading. flat cars loaded with car and truck frames etc..Walter, I think you're confusing two different things. The immediate post-WW II period was the heyday of the custom parts racks, with corresponding custom attachment hardware inside the cars. But the development of loaders led to the Ford history you mention: they ELIMINATED the special parts racks in favor of "universal" racks and bins which could be put into a bare car and used for any parts whatsoever. But all that was in the 1960s, after the "end of history" on this list. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Boxcar DF Symbol?
walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
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I also recall a lot of the cars had Ford Motor Co. also painted on them..the big red Santa Fe High cubes were all marked in this way.. Along with some other I just don't remember at this time,.. These may of been assigned to the Ford Car pool.. Walt K.---- Original Message -----
From: Russ Strodtz To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Boxcar DF Symbol? Kurt, These symbols were supposed to be put just above the right hand doors operating handle, (if so equipped). They gave more info about the car's equipment. A rather quick look at a few painting diagrams does yield some information. I think the circle/line means it has lading anchors. I know the circle/bar with two vertical bars to the right and left means moveable bulkheads. These symbols were thought up by the AAR so somewhere there should be a drawing that covers all of them. I just haven't found it yet. Note in the thread about "RB" type cars that at the end they were specifying an amount of insulation. Cars with less ended up being "XLI" rather than "RBL". Sometime in the 80's they changed to a cutoff on the number of bars needed to make it an "XML". Some cars that still had belt rails and bars became "XM" because they did not have enough. Russ PS: On a locomotive frame a circle with a diagonal slash means it has a chemical toilet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kurt Laughlin To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, 27 November, 2006 22:40 Subject: [STMFC] Boxcar DF Symbol? P. S. I notice that there is another symbol on some car doors, a circle divided vertically with a line. It's usual alone but I found one photo with it and the symbol described above together. Any ideas as to this one's meaning? Thx, KL |
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Re: Boxcar DF Symbol?
walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
Russ: Ford motor Company developed a lot of these cars for shipping Auto parts to their different Auto assembly plants by there own engineering dept. They requirered special racks for different items.. like car sides, Batterys, all types of bins and racks for quick unloading. flat cars loaded with car and truck frames etc.. Check out the Ford Mahwah Assembly Plant web site. and some of the others..Mahwah used to take in a hundred cars into the plant at a time on two tracks on a craneway these were unloaded and replaced several times a day..There was two assembly lines I car and one truck they put out better the 60 cars an hour and about 24 to 30 trucks depending on what type..
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Walt K.. ----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Strodtz To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Boxcar DF Symbol? Kurt, These symbols were supposed to be put just above the right hand doors operating handle, (if so equipped). They gave more info about the car's equipment. A rather quick look at a few painting diagrams does yield some information. I think the circle/line means it has lading anchors. I know the circle/bar with two vertical bars to the right and left means moveable bulkheads. These symbols were thought up by the AAR so somewhere there should be a drawing that covers all of them. I just haven't found it yet. Note in the thread about "RB" type cars that at the end they were specifying an amount of insulation. Cars with less ended up being "XLI" rather than "RBL". Sometime in the 80's they changed to a cutoff on the number of bars needed to make it an "XML". Some cars that still had belt rails and bars became "XM" because they did not have enough. Russ PS: On a locomotive frame a circle with a diagonal slash means it has a chemical toilet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kurt Laughlin To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, 27 November, 2006 22:40 Subject: [STMFC] Boxcar DF Symbol? P. S. I notice that there is another symbol on some car doors, a circle divided vertically with a line. It's usual alone but I found one photo with it and the symbol described above together. Any ideas as to this one's meaning? Thx, KL |
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Re: N scale vertical staff brake wheels?
Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
--- In STMFC@..., raildata@... wrote:
You mean MicroTRAINS, right? MicroSCALE makes decals. Dean Payne |
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Intermountain HO PFE Reefer Kits For Sale
parkvarieties <parkvarieties@...>
List Members,
I have been in the process of consolidating my kit stash and find that I have too many Intermountain HO PFE reefer kits for my needs. I would like to sell about 50% of the kits I have. The kit numbers and car numbers available can be viewed at www.provide.net/~parkvarieties/pfe.jpg Price is $11.50 per kit plus actual Parcel Post or Priority Mail shipping cost to your ZIP Code. All kits are complete in mint condition. If interested, please respond directly to me off-list at: parkvarieties@... and include your ZIP Code. Thanks. Frank Brua |
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Re: Boxcar DF Symbol?
walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
Kurt a lot of the High cube auto parts car had that symbol meaning DAMAGE FREE :>) the cars had special racks to hold the merchandise from moving in shipment..Lots of special fitted cars for the auto industry.. ?Walt K.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Laughlin To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:40 PM Subject: [STMFC] Boxcar DF Symbol? In many boxcar photos you can see a marking that is basically a filled rectangule with a circle overlaid in the center. What's curious is that sometimes: - The symbol appears by itself - The symbol is parallel to and between two lines - The symbol is perpendicular to and between two lines - The symbol is long axis horizontal - The symbol is long axis vertical - The symbol is on sliding doors - The symbol is on plug doors - The symbol is adjacent to the door - The symbol frequently - but not exclusively - appears with DF markings, and DF marked cars do not always carry this symbol. However, I did find one photo where "DF" is clearly visible in the circle of the main symbol, so I suspect it has something to do with the DF load restraint system. What does this symbol represent and what is the significance of the variations noted above? When did it start being used? P. S. I notice that there is another symbol on some car doors, a circle divided vertically with a line. It's usual alone but I found one photo with it and the symbol described above together. Any ideas as to this one's meaning? Thx, KL |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
I realize that the sill is supposed to be inset from the sides. I just
thought it was too far inset. It will be interesting to see all these slightly different models with the same car number. I wasn't thinking fast enough or I would have rearranged my car numbers. They were arranged so well on the decal sheet it was a breeze to just cut them out and slap them on. Clark Propst |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Clark Propst wrote:
The model that was given to us has the 'late improved dreadnaught ends' I believe the prototype had 'improved dreadnaught ends'. The ones with the large corrugations that look like rolling pins. Fat in the middle, thin at the ends with a fast taper between.In what I think is John Nehrich's memorable phrase, the "late" ends are called "banana taper," the earlier ones "rolling pin taper." I like the terms, both for vividness and because "late" always seems a bit ambiguous. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Floor and Body were supposed to be a poor fit, from memory close to an 1/8"
gap. The original DS car was narrower than the postwar body. That was the reason of the channel, simulated with strip stryene, and brackets, also simulated with strip styrene. I took a few pictures of my car to send to John. I'll post them to the list tonight. Brian Carlson |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
armprem
Clark,I too had the same problem.Floor and body were a poor fit., but you can't look a gift horse in the mouth.Armand Premo
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----- Original Message -----
From: "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 2:14 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car John, |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Clark Propst wrote:
"I mentioned the instructions, my only complaint with them is that when the underframe was dropped into the body it was way too narrow. I ended up using several styrene strips to 'fill in' the gaps on both sides. Did anyone else have this problem? Or didn't I understand the instructions?" Clark, you're making this too hard. It's a rebuilt boxcar. The prototype had the same problem, which is why these cars had an indented side sill and brackets. To do this conversion using the Accurail fishbelly underframe, you're essentially doing the same thing that the prototype did. Ben Hom |
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Re: Cocoa Beach '06 KCS Car
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
John,
The model that was given to us has the 'late improved dreadnaught ends' I believe the prototype had 'improved dreadnaught ends'. The ones with the large corrugations that look like rolling pins. Fat in the middle, thin at the ends with a fast taper between. I ended up following the instructions, which were better than most resin kits by the way, because the sides of my body were so badly warped. I couldn't cut the sides off and build up a flat kit. I mentioned the instructions, my only complaint with them is that when the underframe was dropped into the body it was way too narrow. I ended up using several styrene strips to 'fill in' the gaps on both sides. Did anyone else have this problem? Or didn't I understand the instructions? Clark Propst |
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