Re: gondolas of coal
walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
Guys just took a peek into page from the July 1897 ORE and the Delaware, Susquehanna, and Schuylkill RR Coal gondola 1001 to 2513 a total of 1513 COAL GONDOLAS LISTED NOTHING ABOUT HOPPER BOTTEMS...Walt K.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Westerfield To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: gondolas of coal NYC and subsidiaries had 16,500 inside stake wooden coal gons built in 1903-6, many used in rotary dumpers. They were specifically designed with recessed grab irons for clearance. See Mainline Modeler 6/84. - Al |
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Re: gondolas of coal
Westerfield <westerfield@...>
NYC and subsidiaries had 16,500 inside stake wooden coal gons built in 1903-6, many used in rotary dumpers. They were specifically designed with recessed grab irons for clearance. See Mainline Modeler 6/84. - Al
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Re: gondolas of coal
Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
I apologize to the Group for the wasted bandwidth, but the revised Yahoo format has me buffaloed. There was just too big a gap between my comments and Elden Gatwood's so that I thought some would surmise that I had written nothing - of course, even after reading my comments, some may still think that I have contributed nothing.
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Tim Gilbert Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote: |
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Re: gondolas of coal
Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Group; Elden, Perhaps, a summary of ownership of the type of gons would be helpful. According to the AAR Car Service Division, there were 306,333 Gons owned by Class I RR's in the US on December 31st, 1948 (vs. 571,919 Hoppers either Covered or Open-Top - the open top include Ore Cars). There were 305,501 Gons listed in the "Recapitulation of Car Equipment" in the April 1949 ORER. Basically, the car types based upon their Mechanical Designations may be sub-divided into three sub-types: - 1) Solid Bottom; 2) Side Dump; and 3) Center Dump. The Solid Bottom Gons could be further divided by either being type "GT" ("An open type car having high sides and solid bottom, suitable for unloading coal on dumping machines only, but not suitable for the mill trade"). Below is the split of gons owned by region into the four types: Solid Bottom Drop Bottom GT's Other Side Dump Center Dump Total New England - 234 1,523 1,227 2,984 Great Lakes 605 47,922 93 888 49,508 Central East - 93,947 233 6 94,186 Pocahontas 3,257 10,432 50 5,484 19,223 Southern 626 22,337 6,563 15,708 45,231 Northwest - 7,159 16,568 - 23,737 Central West 209 8,786 42,530 619 52,144 Southwest - 15,097 3,390 11 18,498 Total Class I 5,097 205,514 70,947 23,943 305,501 The majority of GT Gons were owned by the RR's in the Pocahontas Region (2,004 by the VGN and 1,653 by the N&W - the C&O designated no cars as GT gons). The ERIE owned 596 of the 605 GT's in the Great Lakes Region. About 60% of the Side Dump Gons were owned by the Central West RR's (8,761 by the ATSF, 8,434 by the CB&Q, 7,709 by the SP-Pac Lines, 5,666 by the UP & UCR, and 3,876 by the RI). The MILW had 9,006 side dump gons while other Northwest RR's having significant amounts included the NP with 3,573 and the GN with 2,197. In the Southern Region, the IC owned 3,587 side dump gons and the L&N 1,892. In the New England Region, the B&M owned 1,256 of the Region's 1,523 Side Dump Gons. Almost two-thirds of the nation's 23,943 Center Dump Gons were owned by roads in the Southern Region - almost all by either the L&N (9,924) or the SOU (5,716). Others roads having a significant number of Center Drop Gons were the N&W (5,451) and the New Haven (1,138). Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert |
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Re: Attention Minneapolis & St. Louis Modelers (WAY Off Topic)
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Thanks Shawn, WE know about this product. What surprised me was that
Lombard Hobbies had commissioned Athearn to do the CGW motors in the original paint scheme. Clark Propst |
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Attention Minneapolis & St. Louis Modelers (WAY Off Topic)
Shawn Beckert
List,
The jpg shown below is definitely not a freight car, so don't look if you're going to be terribly offended. But as I recall, there are several modelers here who follow the Minneapolis and St. Louis, so you might be interested in this forthcoming Athearn product. I don't remember who the M&StL people are - I think Gene Green is one - but if you're not on the diesel list you'll probably never know these are coming - and I believe it's the first time they've ever been offered: http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/080106/MSTL_F.jpg To smooth Mike's ruffled feathers, this IS a steam-era product; you just can't load freight in it <g>. Back to your scheduled program... Shawn Beckert |
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Re: gondolas of coal
--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:
was cheap then - cheaper than building a trestle.They took delivery in gondolas and had them emptied by hand. Labor Advance apologies if this info comes from this list, I've lost track of where I read it, but I've read reports that much coal from lake boats was loaded to boxcars at Duluth-Superior, with unloading by hand into trackside coal sheds. I've noticed that very small towns rarely have elevated trestles. I have only seen these in larger towns or cities. The only small town that I've seen one in was where the railroad went through a fill, and there was ready made elevation difference between track grade and ground level. |
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Re: gondolas of coal
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Group;
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It would be interesting to examine fleet development in individual railroads based on their histories with coal and coke movement (in particular) and the particulars of that resource. Given that the PRR had extensive connection with the bituminous trade, and with so much of that going to large industrial users, who had a big reason to have efficient unloading procedures, it is not hard to see why they rapidly abandoned development of additional drop bottom or low side gondolas in favor of a large and effective open hopper fleet. The PRR's gon fleet quickly developed into one oriented around non-mineral loads as a result. Other railroads with far different experiences with mineral loads had little reason to go to the extreme of developing a big standard hopper fleet, so may have had little impetus to develop options (like open hoppers) that would prevent them from using the cars in other service, like a gon could be used. The PRR had almost no bottom-doored gondolas after the mid-30's, while other roads had entire fleets of them. It'd make a nice article! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jerry Dziedzic Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:00 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: gondolas of coal --- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote: It looks like D&H was the only railroad to offerL&NE also rostered a sizable fleet of gons. Given its service territory, coal was a very likely load. I'm away from my reference materials, but I recall photographic evidence confirming this. I also recall plenty of paper documentation from Susquehanna train lists and delivery receipts. Jerry Dziedzic Pattenburg, NJ Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: gondolas of coal
Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
List,
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Add to the list the C&O, who shipped great quantities of coal in gonds. Photos of the PRR coal loading facilities on the Great Lakes contain long strings of such loads. Fred Freitas walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...> wrote: The NYO&W also used gondolas for coal..possibly the Erie. as well... I have photo's of O&W gondolas with coal loads... Walt K. ----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Dziedzic To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: gondolas of coal --- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote: It looks like D&H was the only railroad to offerL&NE also rostered a sizable fleet of gons. Given its service territory, coal was a very likely load. I'm away from my reference materials, but I recall photographic evidence confirming this. I also recall plenty of paper documentation from Susquehanna train lists and delivery receipts. Jerry Dziedzic Pattenburg, NJ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. |
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Re: gondolas of coal
benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Ed Mines wrote:
"...only the western road offered coal in gons." Ed, be careful with your generalizations, as this one is simply not true. Jerry and Walt have already identified LNE and NYO&W gons in anthracite service, as well as the Erie gons that have been discussed on this list before. Additionally, several other eastern roads used large numbers of gons in coal service, notably C&O (familiar to HO scale modelers as the MDC 40 ft gon with oval ends) and L&N. The lead photo of the "Big Emma" article in the latest issue of Classic Trains is especially illustrative of the L&N coal fleet, showing the range of cars that they used - gons, USRA twin hoppers and "clones", and offset hoppers. Ben Hom |
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Re: gondolas of coal
walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
The NYO&W also used gondolas for coal..possibly the Erie. as well... I have photo's of O&W gondolas with coal loads... Walt K.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Dziedzic To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: gondolas of coal --- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote: > It looks like D&H was the only railroad to offer > anthracite in gons. L&NE also rostered a sizable fleet of gons. Given its service territory, coal was a very likely load. I'm away from my reference materials, but I recall photographic evidence confirming this. I also recall plenty of paper documentation from Susquehanna train lists and delivery receipts. Jerry Dziedzic Pattenburg, NJ |
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Re: gondolas of coal
Jerry Dziedzic
--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:
It looks like D&H was the only railroad to offerL&NE also rostered a sizable fleet of gons. Given its service territory, coal was a very likely load. I'm away from my reference materials, but I recall photographic evidence confirming this. I also recall plenty of paper documentation from Susquehanna train lists and delivery receipts. Jerry Dziedzic Pattenburg, NJ |
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Re: Boxcar End Doors - question
Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
I suspect that the close fit in an end door box car was a design
parameter of the bus. Like all U.S. warships (until the super carriers) were a close fit in the Panama Canal. regards, Andy Miller ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:16 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Boxcar End Doors - question Peter Bowers wrote: > There is a neat picture or two in BC Archives of the doors open and a > bus being unloaded. There is one in my SP Freight Vol. 3 of a Greyhound bus being unloaded--it is REALLY a close fit. Tony Thompson Editor, . <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=2554753&grpspId=1600169725& msgId=55934&stime=1154405762&nc1=3848611&nc2=3848443&nc3=3848530> |
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Re: Boxcar End Doors - question
Tony Thompson
Peter Bowers wrote:
There is a neat picture or two in BC Archives of the doors open and aThere is one in my SP Freight Vol. 3 of a Greyhound bus being unloaded--it is REALLY a close fit. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: NYC Box Car Heralds, c.1950
golden1014
Brian,
Got the answer--thanks for the help. From the CASO site: "The oval "Lines" herald prior to November 1935 had a black background and was replaced with the oval "System" herald in November 1935." This one applies to me: "Roman style "System" herald used between November 1935 and August 1955. Between November 1935 and March 1944 - the roman "System" herald had a black background. The black background officially removed from the roman "System" herald starting March 2, 1944." "Gothic style "System" herald used between August 1955 and May 1959. The black herald background returned with the gothic "System" herald. (NOTE: The gothic "System" herald was also used prior to 1955 on Pacemaker boxcars and bay window cabooses." John Golden O'Fallon, IL --- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote: link might shed some light.accuracy of the information. |
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Re: Boxcar End Doors - question
PBowers <waiting@...>
At 02:44 PM 7/31/06, you wrote:
Other railroads had much larger fleets of such end door boxcars. WhatThere is a neat picture or two in BC Archives of the doors open and a bus being unloaded. Peter Bowers -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/06 |
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Re: Box car doors....open or closed
Mike Brock posted:
"I will note that Union Pacific rule 855 from the 1946 rule book states: Freight Service: "The doors of empty cars in trains must be kept closed. The doors of loaded cars must be kept closed and properly secured unless required to be left open for ventilation"." Is there any provision on freight cars in our era for securing doors in the open or partially open position for ventilation purposes while in transit? Eric Petersson ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag |
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New HO scale PRR stock car
cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
Really neat car -- check out those trucks!
http://www.geocities.com/bkempins/ASMMain/CattleCar.html Marty McGuirk |
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Re: gondolas of coal
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
A friend of mine has waybills that outline deliveries made to his father on a
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team tracks that consist of exclusively loads of sand, gravel and other building materials, all in gondolas, during the late 40's thru late 50's. Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of walter kierzkowski Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 2:23 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] gondolas of coal I remember back as a you teenager in the fifties that Mills bros got delievery of gondolas full of sand and also the Northwest Breaker got whiote sand in gondolas for cleaning the coal..this was all hand unloaded... early Fifties. Walt K. ----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S. To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] gondolas of coal Ed, I believe most RRs had side dump hoppers. They were used to deliver ballast to track maintenance sites. regards, Andy Miller ________________________________ From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ed_mines Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:27 PM To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [STMFC] gondolas of coal (Erie had a few hoppers that dumped coal to the side.) I . <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=2554753&grpspId=1600169725& <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=2554753&grpspId=1600169725&> msgId=55920&stime=1154367025&nc1=3848601&nc2=3848432&nc3=3848527> |
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Re: Boxcar End Doors - question
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Ditto for fire engines (American LaFrance, for one, in X30's), long lumber
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loads, and pre-assembled trusses. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Andy Sperandeo Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:15 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Boxcar End Doors - question Jim Mische asked about the uses of end-door boxcars. These cars were often used for automobiles and trucks - some early versions were introduced for carriages and wagons - and in WWII they were also used to carry large aircraft assemblies. so long, Andy Andy Sperandeo Executive Editor Model Railroader magazine asperandeo@... 262-796-8776, ext. 461 FAX 262-796-1142 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links |
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