Display the FGE car as an FGE car, and have photos and models of PFE
and SFRD cars. The FGE car will provide the "Wow it's big" and
the "Look at how they put the ice inside them" effects...
(well, depending on what other equipment is nearby, it may be
the "Wow it's small" effect.)

Scott Pitzer

-------------------------------------------------------
--- In STMFC@..., Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
wrote:

I think we are dealing here with a conflict between two quite

reasonable objectives, and I'd like to make a suggestion that I
think resolve the conflict. I respect the interesting input from
the professional historians about the "knowability" of history, but
I also don't want to see information lost, as I'm sure the
historians don't, of exactly what happened or what something looked
like if it can be definitely known.

Recognize that there are two constituencies here for the

railroad museum. One that works at the micro-level of exact detail
like Schuyler and Andy Miller. I have great respect for their work,
but it's more than I can handle.

The other is macro-level people like me who are most interested

in the overall effect. When I'm operating a model railroad, I don't
really care if the grab irons are an inch too far out or the ice
hatches have the wrong number of hinges or even if the roof is black
or dark red as long as the car I'm seeing from two or three feet
away [think 100 to 200 scale feet] looks like my memory of a PFE car.

Suppose you are running a museum in the southwest and you want

to show what a reefer that moved produce from the area looked like.
And suppose the only car available to you is an ice bunker car that
was operated by FGE and its details are different from any car ever
operated by PFE or SFRE.

From the perspective of showing the younger generation what cars

in that service in your territory looked like, it seems perfectly
reasonable to me to paint it in one of those schemes.

But then we have to recognize that there are others who would

like to know exactly what a car in that service looked like. It's
unfair to them to say that this car is one that operated in the
southwest.

Can't we reasonably satisfy both constituencies with the

sign/brochure,whatever, that describes the car in the museum. Say
that it is intended to show what such cars looked like but is not an
exact replica of a PFE/SFRE car. Also state its original ownership
and car number.

Doesn't that completely satisfy the requirements of truth and

accuracy for both constituencies. Let's recognize ALL of the
legitimate interests and stop putting down the guys whose main
interest is different from yours.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mal,

Its SFRD, not SFRE. You never did get the details right! ;-)


regards,

Andy Miller

An older program is Fontographer. It may not even be available
anymore from Macromedia. I think I've had mine close to 10 years.

Another program is from High Logic http://www.high-logic.com/index.html,
I have both programs but I'm a little more familiar with Fontographer.
A friend says the high logic program is easier to use. You can
import an image and trace over it. With these programs you can get
lettering as accurate as you care to spend time on it.

Curt - I use Fontographer as well. The license of Fontographer was purchased
a year ago by Font Lab. ( http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/22893.html )
Font Labs is selling a new package of Fontographer for $349.95 (
http://www.fontlab.com ), which seems a little steep considering I got mine
bundled with a Macromedia Graphics Suite for less than that. It might be
worth looking around for a used package.

The latest versions of Fontographer will also let you import a bitmap to
trace over. As you've said, a person can get as accurate as they want (or
have time for). The toughest part for me with some fonts is keeping them all
the same size proportionally between characters.

Dan Stinson
Helena, Montana

Go to http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/ and click on "our products" then "rolling stock" then "HO" and you will find:

DPH296 - 301 - 40' boxcar, 10' IH, with early block lettering

DPH320 - 325 - same car with Dollar sign herald.

Each kit is $15.98.

Jim Brewer
www.pocahontasmodels.com

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
about details for SP lettering, but this is an

excellent example of how a nominally "close" font does NOT

duplicate a

particular railroad's lettering. The SP characters, including

numerals,

were reprinted in my Vol. 1 on SP freight cars, and several are

quite

at odds with any of the Century siblings, Schoolbook or otherwise.
Numerals in particular are visibly quite condensed for SP relative

to

the font.

Many if not most railroads had "fonts" that are not duplicated by
standard computer fonts. The early steam era railroads relied on
sign painters and didn't use stencils. They each had unique
stencils. I have had to create several "fonts" for the decals that I
sell. CN alone had more than 1/2 dozen different "fonts" depending
on era and equipment. In Canada if a small railroad didn't specify,
the manufacture would use a larger railroad's stencils.

In Corel draw I can size the letters to be exactly 5" or 7" in the
scale used. I set up guide lines for size and spacing between lines
and usually do some manual kerning. relying on points is an inexact
science at best. The fonts I create are 72 points to the inch but it
doesn't matter. In the smaller sizes, like 2" in HO, the letters are
usually made a little bolder so that they can be printed but 4" and
larger are prototype weight.
Allen Ferguson

As many have said, today's computer fonts may not be close to railroad
lettering for many reasons. There are at least two software programs
that you can use to modify existing fonts, or create fonts from scratch.

An older program is Fontographer. It may not even be available
anymore from Macromedia. I think I've had mine close to 10 years.

Another program is from High Logic http://www.high-logic.com/index.html,
I have both programs but I'm a little more familiar with Fontographer.
A friend says the high logic program is easier to use. You can
import an image and trace over it. With these programs you can get
lettering as accurate as you care to spend time on it.

But with anything reduced to scale, there are diminishing returns on
smaller lettering. While many older lettering styles are stencil
letters, it may be difficult to render it well enough when looking at
2" letters reduced to HO scale.

Curt Fortenberry

Tom Madden wrote:

Some time ago Des Plaines Hobbies had a special run done
by Red Caboose for these cars. Small SOO herald, though, not
the billboard style Blair is seeking. Don't know if Ron Sebastian
has any left. The one I have is DPH294, car #136148.

During last October's Naperville event, Des Plaines had a fairly large
number of the Soo Line boxcars for sale on a table at the front of the
store, all with the dollar sign herald. IIRC I bought at least two. You
could call and see if there's any left. Remember that a number of the
early herald cars lasted into the late 60's.

Shawn Beckert

On Wednesday, May 24, 2006, at 05:23 AM, bean_bowl wrote:

Any suggestions for what available plastic kit from Branchline,
Intermountain or Red Caboose would be most appropriate? Looking at an
ORER there are a ton of number series to choose from, but I'm unclear
as to combination of car end, door, roof, etc. I suppose I'd like to
model a *common* series of cars--perhaps the 10'6" 1951 cars built by
North Fond du Lac shops?

Blair,
My earlier post needs a modification. I mentioned that Soo didn't have any cars matching the RC or IRC models. As Ben Hom mentioned, Soo Line had 100 cars of the 1937 AAR design built by Pullman-Standard in 1936. These cars are listed in the 1937 AAR box car roster I prepared for the STMFC in conjunction with Ted Culotta. To date I have not found a photo from this series, and I'm not sure what type of doors were used. Does anyone know of a photo source of the Soo Line 136000-136198 (even) series?
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

On Wednesday, May 24, 2006, at 05:23 AM, bean_bowl wrote:

Any suggestions for what available plastic kit from Branchline,
Intermountain or Red Caboose would be most appropriate? Looking at an
ORER there are a ton of number series to choose from, but I'm unclear
as to combination of car end, door, roof, etc. I suppose I'd like to
model a *common* series of cars--perhaps the 10'6" 1951 cars built by
North Fond du Lac shops?

Thanks in advance for advice/help.

Blair,
The Soo Line built 40' AAR box cars from 1949-1954 that had common features with 10-panel riveted sides, Youngstown-Camel doors over a 6' opening, diagonal panel roofs, and R+3/4 (early) Improved Dreadnaught Ends. Branchline's model is correct for all of these cars. Soo Line changing their paint and lettering scheme during this period with some of the earliest cars having the $-sign emblem and others having various versions of the SOO LINE billboard lettering. There were at least three billboard schemes with SOO LINE being either closely spread (located near the doors) or spread wider, plus there variations on the vertical positioning. In addition, the ends of the 1949-built cars were black while later cars had ends painted freight car red. Branchline offers several of these variations, so be sure to get the version you want.

Neither RC or IRC offers a box car that is correct for Soo Line prior to the early 1950s. The 1937 AAR Modified cars owned by Soo Line had ends with square corners.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Oops! One too many slashes in the URL. Try this one:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Russ-L_19.jpg

Dennis

List,

Does anyone have a source of drawings or a trade press article about
what an equipment diagram calls a "RUSS-L #19" roof? I've found three
photos of cars having this roof; two Soo Line cars built in 1915 and
an RF&P car built in 1911. An illustration of a similar Murphy product
is shown in the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary. See a clip of an ACF
photo of one of the Soo cars at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files//Russ-L_19.jpg

This appears to be an outside metal roof made of light gauge sheet
steel, having cast clamps that hold the ends of the seam caps in
place, with additional clasps at the third points of each panel to
keep the edges from lifting. Chicago-Cleveland continued to use
similar clamps on radial roofs into the twenties (the NP was fond of
these) but the clamps themselves are a different shape. The wood
fascia also seems to have a profile molded on its face to provide a
drip edge.

I'd like to include this roof in a drawing that is slowly being
prepared for publication, but some additional details would be most
welcome.

Dennis

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Here are two of your options:

1937 AAR boxcar, SOO 136000-136198, 100 cars built 1936. Kit: Red
Caboose 1937 AAR boxcar (square corner post)

Some time ago Des Plaines Hobbies had a special run done by Red
Caboose for these cars. Small SOO herald, though, not the billboard
style Blair is seeking. Don't know if Ron Sebastian has any left. The
one I have is DPH294, car #136148.

Tom Madden

Hi Schuyler,

The method I like is to solder the grabs to the laterals from below before
installing the running board. That way I can trim the excess wire flush with
the underside. I use Tix solder and flux, which make a strong joint. I use a
wood or cardstock spacer ­ it would be really embarrassing to melt styrene
into those finely etched grids!

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-11142




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Blair Kooistra asked:
"I'd like to do at least one Soo Line 40' steel boxcar with 6' door
for my railroad, but don't have a huge amount of research material
handy to pull this off without at least a little input from the
list. I'd like to model a car as it appeared in the *late* steam era
with the billboard lettering.

Any suggestions for what available plastic kit from Branchline,
Intermountain or Red Caboose would be most appropriate? Looking at
an ORER there are a ton of number series to choose from, but I'm
unclear as to combination of car end, door, roof, etc. I suppose I'd
like to model a *common* series of cars--perhaps the 10'6" 1951 cars
built by North Fond du Lac shops?"

Here are two of your options:

1937 AAR boxcar, SOO 136000-136198, 100 cars built 1936. Kit: Red
Caboose 1937 AAR boxcar (square corner post)

Modified 1937 AAR boxcar, 900 cars in four number series built 1940-
1941. See page two of the linked table for details:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/mod37aarpdfmain.htm
l
http://rr-fallenflags.org/soo/soo44052ajs.jpg

Kits: Intermountain plus Sunshine mini-kit MK.10A; Athearn (one of
the three prototypes for this kit).

Decals: Champ HB-168 or Microscale 87-1048.

I don't have postwar sources handy at work - I'll check after I get
home if nobody else posts an answer.


Ben Hom

Attaching corner grabs to Plano laterals:

Use .010" wire as it fits in the holes in the laterals provided by Plano. .008 is closer to scale but .010 is a good compromise for strength. I used to use the DA eye bolts for the corner support but somebody on this list, I think it was Ted, suggested folding over a piece of wire instead. Once the formed .010 corner grab is stuck in its holes and secured, make the corner support. Take a piece of the .010 wire, mash the end with pliers, bend the mashed end 90 degrees at the flat/round transition with the pliers and then continue to fold the end over the dull edge of the razor blade to make a U. Drop the round end of the piece into the Plano hole so the U hooks over the corner of the grab and secure everthing thing with CA. Then trim off the end extending down thru the lateral. Hope that helps...

Bill Darnaby

I'd like to do at least one Soo Line 40' steel boxcar with 6' door for
my railroad, but don't have a huge amount of research material handy
to pull this off without at least a little input from the list. I'd
like to model a car as it appeared in the *late* steam era with the
billboard lettering.

Hope this question isn't too broad.

Any suggestions for what available plastic kit from Branchline,
Intermountain or Red Caboose would be most appropriate? Looking at an
ORER there are a ton of number series to choose from, but I'm unclear
as to combination of car end, door, roof, etc. I suppose I'd like to
model a *common* series of cars--perhaps the 10'6" 1951 cars built by
North Fond du Lac shops?

Thanks in advance for advice/help.

--blair kooistra
fort worth, TX

Attaching corner grabs to Plano laterals:

Hoo boy, what a pain that is. The open-grid pattern and the expanded
pattern, and maybe the Morton, have the three attachment holes etched.
But, they're too small. Now I should know better, but early on I just
drilled those out. Took me a half-hour per hole, and a drill bit
barely lasted through one pair of laterals. Worse, the hole at the
left edge of the lateral is on top of the brass frame provided. So, I
do an inaccurate thing and force the grab through one of the slots
adjacent to the proper hole. I use a Detail Associates 2206 eyebolt
for the corner attachment.
But, and this is a large but, I trim the grab legs and the eyebolt so
they just barely go through toe lateral. That way there's no chance of
them anchoring to the roof and forming that incredibly rigid attachment
that causes the bowing of the roofwalk proper due to thermal
contraction.
There's more to this, but that's the heart of the matter.

Ron Merrick


--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

<snip>

But nobody's hit on the second question: How do you all handle

attaching the corner grabs to Plano

lateral roofwalks?

I've developed a repeatable "method" but I'm willing to bet that it's

not the best way . . .so, how

do you perform this feat?

SGL

But nobody's hit on the second question: How do you all
handle attaching the corner grabs to Plano lateral roofwalks?

I've developed a repeatable "method" but I'm willing to
bet that it's not the best way . . .so, how do you perform
this feat?

Schuyler -
My technique involves popping them out of a pair of tweezers and never
finding them again. (I did hear them hit once, but I'm not quite sure
where.) As you might guess, the results are less than optimal and I'm still
searching the recesses of my modeling desk. As one who adheres to the "two
square foot" theory, this becomes quite a challenge.<G>

Perhaps you'll share your method and I can have greater success. Is Keith
Hapes over on Modern Freightcars? Perhaps asking there might get a reply
from the master.<BG>

Dan Stinson
Helena, Montana

Even some of the most chaotic and poorly maintained museums can be used as an adjunct to successful modeling of freight cars. Here are some of the things to look for at Billy-Bob's Rail Museum and Souvenir Stand.

1. If the rolling stock is out in the open, you can get some shots of extreme weathering.
2. Snoop around the lower depths, you may find some of the original hardware kicking about even on that pink freight car.
3. With digital cameras you can take tons of shots to take back and analyze later to see if it passes the hogwash test.
4. Look how the light and shadows play across the cars, I often do shelve layouts and I've been strongly tempted to paint in the shadows so that cars can't be turned around but will look great!
5. If worse comes to worse, you will absolutely see how NOT to do things.

Just don't use it as your final authority unless you have no other options.

Jim Eckman

Hi. In regard to Tom Olsen's message of Monday, May 22
quoted below:

I sent an email to Aaron Gjermundson at the email listed on
his website inquiring about the availability of the "30 sets
of castings" that Tom Madden said he was doing for Aaron.
He
responded within a few days that they were there and
available. I sent a check for three on May 8 and received
them in the mail Monday, May 22. The castings are terrific
and the new
wood deck by Bruce Barney and Ken Van Wormer adds a great
touch, too.

Exemplary communication and service, I think.

Cheers,
David Turner
Keeping S. P. & S. Rwy. alive in Santa Rosa, California


From: "Thomas M. Olsen" tmolsen@...
Date: Mon May 22, 2006 9:53pm(PDT)
Subject: Re: Northern Specific Models NP Flat Car

List,

Recently there was a discussion regarding Aaron
Gjermundson's new NP
flat car and some people having sent money for the kit,
but not hearing
or receiving theirs. I would like to say that I sent
for three of the
kits on March 29th and received them this past
Saturday, May 19th. The
only delay was how long it took for Tom Madden to
complete the castings,
get them to Aaron and for Aaron to reach my name in the
queue!

I must say that I am impressed with the quality of the
castings. It
appears that Aaron has learned from his earlier
mistakes and has his
operation up to speed. I wonder what he has in mind
for an encore after
this model?

Tom Olsen

(NOTE: This my second attempt to send this message, if I was
misinformed and the first one did get through, please accept
my apology for the extra bandwidth.)