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Re: Pools, going in the deep end
Shawn Beckert
Clark Propst wrote:
I know little of car pools and am maybe oversimplifying things.My understanding of a freightcar pool is the railroad that stands to get the greatest percentage of the line haul business has to contribute a corresponding number of cars to the pool. Other roads which get a smaller piece of the revenue pie contribute fewer cars. Shawn Beckert
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@c... wrote:
Clark, I would love to see a model of this car, since evidentlyTim, here's a link to a model. http://www.eldora.net/lyndon/propst/boxcar2902.html I'll post the prototype in the files section. Clark propst
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Pools, going in the deep end
Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
I know little of car pools and am maybe oversimplifying things. My definition of a pool would be: Railroad X buys freight cars to carry an industries product. That industry loads and sends the cars indecrimitly with the cars returning for another load when empty.
I'm sure to find out how this really works. Back when 5 railroads served Mason City the local cement plants ran a pool arrangement for box cars. If they were to ship 11 loads out on your RR then you were to supply them with 11 empties. You probably would not get the same cars back loaded you gave them empty. Most box cars in photos do not belong to the 5 local roads, lots of PRR cars. Although I have records of lots of CGW X29 style (Ted says AAR cars) with cement loads on the M&StL. Today the plants are still protected by a covered hopper pool. I'm told it's one of the every few still around. Clark Propst
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CGW ore
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
By the way, Clark, I know that the CGW billed some of its orehoppers to South Freeport for handling by the IC and I think it billed some to Galena for the Q. Either line had a way from said locations to East St. Louis. Yes, and some probably went to Marshalltown and was turned over to the M&StL. Tom, Chet has provided great indepth information on the ore interchange at S Freeport. I have records that ore traveled on the M&StL. I have drawn a blank of the Q. They got it at East Dubuque. Most times brought over from Fairgrounds yard by the Chicago Passenger train. I need info on where exactly the Q got the ore and what they did with it? In other words, how they handled the ore traffic to Granite City. Thanks for any info on this subject, Clark Propst PS There's a new IT book with a photo of two of their geeps pulling CGW 3 bay hoppers loaded with...what else? Ore of course. Thanks to eagle eye French for finding that one.
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Clark, I would love to see a model of this car, since evidently
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they ran on the SP in the 1960 era. Can you post a photo? Does it have tab sills, taper sills (what style?) Does it match either the Intermountain or any Kadee version? Tim O.
Tony wrote:There were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda inthe1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing inAlameda(if it came there directly from Weirton).I have been informed by an expert that they cars had 9' doors not 8'
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
Clark
Tin plate equals Tin Cans, add in the M&StL and we arrive at Decker Meat in Mason City. And don't forget the various canneries, ie Marshall Canning #5 in Roland, Grinnell Canning in Grinnell, etc. Thanks everyone, now I have some new routing for waybills on the IaC. Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Tony wrote:
There were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda inthe 1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing inAlameda (if it came there directly from Weirton).I have been informed by an expert that they cars had 9' doors not 8' as I had first mentioned. Thanks for all the great replies. I think it is safe to assume (using the CGW car assignments as a guide) these cars were purchased for the Weirton pool and could have traveled anywhere in the country. They were fortunately photograghed in Alameda. BTW they are not coupled together, but in separate photos. All agree, raise your hands....how many of you acually did? How many of you would like to see models of these bright red cars with black ends and 10'6" M dot ST L on the left and the road name in a white horizonal stripe on the right with a diagonal stripe with Damage Free in it? Thanks tons guys, Clark
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Thomas Baker
Wierton, WV once had--maybe still does--a sprawling steel mill. Would that make any sense?
Tom By the way, Clark, I know that the CGW billed some of its ore hoppers to South Freeport for handling by the IC and I think it billed some to Galena for the Q. Either line had a way from said locations to East St. Louis. Yes, and some probably went to Marshalltown and was turned over to the M&StL. Tom ________________________________ From: STMFC@... on behalf of Clark Propst Sent: Mon 8/22/2005 12:28 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Thanks, Clark Propst Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Greg Martin
All,
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This does make sense if the stock was shipped as cans or can stock in rolls as many of the cars Marked "WE" show up here in Salem, OR today loaded with empty cans for Truit Bros. canneries even today. Salem, OR is stuffed full of empty cans ("hey, he hates the cans..." excerpt from The Jerk) in just about every empty building in town and I am sure it was the case in the 50's as there were more canneries here then than now. The WE cars are from the current Wheeling and Lake Erie RR fleet. I am simply using this as a comparitive example albeit out of scope for this lists time period. So Tony and Garth this all plays together. One thing we don't address often on this list is the old railroads marketing approach to cars and car supply of years past. I am often reminded by the RR car applicators (still working for the major carriers) that the railroads were often ask to contribute cars to pools to assigned locations to return to for loading in order to participate in that commodity's distribution to plants on line. The theory was if you participate in the revenue you supply the needed cars to d the job. Often the cars were incorrectly shipped to the wrong destination in error by the shipper. But the theory was that a CB&Q car loaded offline at one location was to route to the home road with a load. This often resulted in a car in the pool ending up at the wrong desto but that the user on the Q would be supplied anther like car from the same pool. It was often difficult to correct but they were generally recaptured and corrected at some point. So for the M&StL car it was likely in a pool and routed in error to California, but would likely get corrected at some point. Regardless the cars were in the "pool" and therefore carrying the correct commodity in this case likely cans or can stock. Many canneries had local companies that made cans from sheet or coil stock near by. We in Salem, OR have a small can producer (former American Can Co. plant) who chooses to use trucks rather than rail as we have experimented with transloading coil steel, but the damage created in transite makes trucking a better alternative. BTW te coils were shipped on pallets "eye to the sky". Greg Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff <ggg9y@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:21:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Clark and Greg, If the cars shipped coils to Alameda, they might well have been canstock. There was a large Del Monte cannery in Alamada. They primarily canned pineapples from Hawaii, but I think did other fruit as well. Strange that they would send all the Wierton for canstock though. Plenty of it was rolled at USS Columbia in Pittsburg, California. There was also a small steel fabrication plant in Alameda. it was dormant by the time I lived there in the mid-1970s. The plant used primarily structural steel. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff tgregmrtn@... wrote: Clark,boxcars bought from both PS and AC&F were bought to handle coil steel rolls.
W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Clark Propst Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: Bearings, was: Scale Weights - Doubt It
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Larry Jackman wrote:
My father went to work for the UN PAC in 1929 and these bearings wereWe have this debate regularly and often: shall we use the railroaders' term, or the professional industry term? Both can work, of course, but often the railroaders used different terms in different parts of the country, or even on different parts of the railroad or in different crafts on one railroad; and often they are slang or inaccurate or confusing terms, unless you know the context. That's why some of us prefer to use the professional literature terms (Cyclopedias, Railway Age, AAR Bulletins, etc.) Naturally YMMV. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: American Memory
Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
timboconnor@... wrote:
Tim, follow the directions I gave to Brian Ehni. As he saidTim, I have & found links to IHB's Blue Island Yard, ATSF's Corwith Yard although the photos at Corwith do not have the panoramas I am looking for. Many, many thanks for finding this - Take Care, Tim
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
Clark and Greg,
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If the cars shipped coils to Alameda, they might well have been canstock. There was a large Del Monte cannery in Alamada. They primarily canned pineapples from Hawaii, but I think did other fruit as well. Strange that they would send all the Wierton for canstock though. Plenty of it was rolled at USS Columbia in Pittsburg, California. There was also a small steel fabrication plant in Alameda. it was dormant by the time I lived there in the mid-1970s. The plant used primarily structural steel. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff tgregmrtn@... wrote:
Clark, Clark Propst
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Weirton Steel, which the PRR switched, was a division of National SteelThere were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda in the 1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing in Alameda (if it came there directly from Weirton). Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: American Memory
Tim, follow the directions I gave to Brian Ehni. As he said
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I only gave a link to the JPG version, which is 1000x smaller than the TIF file. If you could print the TIF it would be big enough to carpet your house, I think... I think most of those Delano railroad photos date from the early 1940's. Tim O.
Tim,
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Clark,
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You may have hit on something. Weirton Steel was a major producer of tinplate. See this article from 1956 http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/bus/WHSTEEL1.HTM Tim O'Connor
Clark,
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Very useful for appliance manufacturingMaytag in Newton IA, on the branch out of New Sharon. Would seem odd for these new cars to be rocking down a light rail branch behind an ALCO. Clark Propst
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
Clark;
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Weirton Steel, which the PRR switched, was a division of National Steel during that period. Weirton made coke, pig, and steel, but they were also a huge producer of tin plate, both electrolytic and hot dipped. This was used extensively as can stock. There seem to have been a number of boxcars stenciled with that label. Among them an insulated set of X53s on the PRR set up exclusively for Weirton Steel (also DF-equipped). They are said to have been reserved for coil on pallets, although I do not know their ultimate destination. Weather-protected coil strip was also used extensively in appliance manufacture, as well as the larger coils you more typically associate with the auto industry. Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Clark Propst Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:29 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Thanks, Clark Propst [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: American Memory
Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
Excellent!
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-- Thanks! Brian Ehni
From: <timboconnor@...>
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Re: M&StL 50 fters
Clark
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I agree with Greg, some kind of steel sheeting either in coils or flat form. Very useful for appliance manufacturing which I think was present somewhere on the M&StL. It looks like someone "borrowed" the cars and sent them to California instead of Iowa... Tim O'Connor
Clark,
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Re: American Memory
Go here http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/
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Search for "Bensenville yard" Select picture 14. There are many other good photos too. To get the C&NW pictures look for "Proviso yard"
Do you have a link for the archival version? This page only has a 128k
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