Tim O'Connor wrote:

I am resigned to this as a fact of life with clubs. You can't leave your
best, delicate models out to be destroyed... but since it's the only place
I can run an 80 car train of my own stuff with midtrain and end-of-train
helpers, and where I can get my "operations fix" once a month, I stick
with it. There are no Darnabys or Holbrooks or Koesters nearby, so it's
a choice of accepting the club, or doing without. I may reassess this
attitude once I have my shelf set up and running...

You are right on the mark. It wasn't an easy decision to go, knowing I was
giving up prototype-length trains and hour-long running times. I was in the
midst of attempting to model Espee's "Argonaut" passenger train (I'm still
one car shy), which in its heyday wasn't often less than 14 89' heavyweights.
Not too many places I can run a train like that; kinda like an 800-pound gorilla
in most train rooms.

But it was more important to me to be able to build and operate the railroad
"I" had in mind, not the minds of 60 other people. At most I will have roughly
a 14' by 20' room to work with, but it will be built and run the way I envison
a strictly SP/SSW railroad should be run. That's enough justification for me.

Shawn Beckert

Tony sez:

While entirely agreeing with Shawn about what happens in clubs,
I'm amused at his use of the term "political correctness" to describe
dialogue that you don't like. (This is now a national phenomenon.)
That those guys are morons was all you needed to say, Shawn.

Perhaps "political correctness" was not a good description; what I meant
was that we were chided for objecting violently when someone handled our
equipment like Playdough or coupled freightcars at a scale 20 mph. They
were "members in good standing" and "hard workers" at the club, so we ought
to cut them some slack. When this viewpoint made itself apparent, I knew it
was time to go.

Shawn Beckert

FCJ was David Casdorph, with help from Eric Neubauer, Jim Eager and
others. It was very idiosyncratic, but a number of issues had some very
good stuff. David decided a few years ago to go electronic and has done
a number of "issues" on CD-ROM. He also runs the freightcarworld Yahoo
group. His focus is mainly contemporary, and since September 1996, holds
absolutely no interest for me.

Tim O'Connor

Shawn

I am resigned to this as a fact of life with clubs. You can't leave your
best, delicate models out to be destroyed... but since it's the only place
I can run an 80 car train of my own stuff with midtrain and end-of-train
helpers, and where I can get my "operations fix" once a month, I stick
with it. There are no Darnabys or Holbrooks or Koesters nearby, so it's
a choice of accepting the club, or doing without. I may reassess this
attitude once I have my shelf set up and running...

Tim O'Connor

Pat,

I enjoy the in-depth prototype articles you present (well, not so much the passenger stuff, but that's just me), but there's more to this hobby than just data. In your earlier efforts there were more articles on actually building models, similar to Ted's RMC series. I would like to see these return.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Tim;
That is probably a better idea even than for a written publication, as
so much of it can be periodically updated.

Have a good one,

Elden

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

To keep this somewhat within list guidelines, one of the BIG reasons I
quit the club was having to deal with the morons that abused the freight
cars and locomotives of other members, then got their feelings hurt when
taken to task for it. When did model railroading start having to accept
and accomodate "political correctness"?

While entirely agreeing with Shawn about what happens in clubs, I'm amused at his use of the term "political correctness" to describe dialogue that you don't like. (This is now a national phenomenon.) That those guys are morons was all you needed to say, Shawn.

Anthony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompsonmarytony@...

I have experienced the same problem that Greg has and would love to
obtain a copy of this article.

Thanks,
Jeff Helm


--- In STMFC@..., "gsb157" <sgaab@p...> wrote:

A while back I had inquired about Vol. 4, specifically for the

article

on freight car trucks. I have searched the net far and wide, and

have

come up empty. No shop that carries the magazine has it and it is

sold

out.

Is there anyone who may have an extra copy and is willing to part

with

it or would copy the article on freight car trucks for me? I will
gladly compensate for the cost of the issue and/or copies along

with

the postage.

If anyone can help, please contact me off-list.

Thanks,
Greg Bartek

Richard Hendrickson wrote

I prefer kits to RTR for the following reasons:
I do a slightly better job of building kits than the Chinese who
assemble RTR models.

Richard

I agree, with one exception -- the Tichy USRA hoppers. All those wire
grabs added to those scale posts is something I would just as soon
skip doing myself.

I've noticed a lot of badly assembled Accurail 3-bay hoppers, and then
I saw that my club members were making the same mistake! The hopper
doors do fit flush against the bays, but you have to make them fit. If not,
you get a silly looking gap.

Tim O'Connor

Roger Parry wrote:

Clubs can, and often are, evicted by owners changing moods. Build a
home layout, get a round robin group to help, help them build and
operate, the best of both worlds. No disputes, the owner rules.

I absolutely agree. I was a member of one of the larger clubs in the
Los Angeles area for a dozen years before giving up in disgust. I won't
go into the reasons why (there were many), but suffice to say that I
will never be involved with a club layout again.

If you're going to build a model railroad and operate it in anything
resembling a prototype fashion, you've got to do it yourself. Thereby
avoiding the endless discussions on how to build and operate it, not
to mention the buffoons that mishandle your equipment.

To keep this somewhat within list guidelines, one of the BIG reasons I
quit the club was having to deal with the morons that abused the freight
cars and locomotives of other members, then got their feelings hurt when
taken to task for it. When did model railroading start having to accept
and accomodate "political correctness"?

Never again...


Shawn Beckert

Ed Mines wrote:

Anyone know the story of the Kratville series of freight car magazines
printed around 1980?

Not sure what Ed means by "story" here. They are a most miscellaneous collection of photos, obviously whatever Bill had at hand, with many oddball cars and a certain number of railroad PR photos, and sometimes erroneous captions. That said, they can be useful sources of info. I have issues 1 through 5, which I think is all there ever were. You see them for sale occasionally. Bill told me that the sales were abysmal.

How about the "Freight Car Journal"? I subscribed (or was a member)
for a while but the subject matter didn't interest me - it was mostly
current stuff but every so often a pre1900 drawing would show up. This magazine
(or society) is long defunct, right?

I'm not sure if it's still around, though someone on the list will know. My reaction was exactly like yours: poor focus, and a tendency to do contemporary cars (they did do a nice issue on the historical IC fleet).

"Prototype Modeler" and it's predicessor regional magazines had a lot
of freight car articles. I was sorry when they stopped publishing.
Richard hendrickson wrote some articles for them. I wonder what the
story was?

Money (not enough of it) after it was sold. Richard Hendrickson may want to add more.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., Eric <newyorkcentralfan@u...> wrote:

I agree. According to the feral government...

Eric Petersson
Prisoner of Zenda

feral - A most apt typo (or was it?).

Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

Pat Wider wrote:

Seriously.........What changes, if any, would you like to see us
make to RP CYC?

None. Well, OK, no more passenger car issues <g>.

I started work on a "short" article on Milwaukee ribbed-side box cars
and it grew in length to encompass 75 pages.

And the problem with this is...?

The premier reason for buying RPC is precisely because the articles are
long, extensively researched, and full of useful information. This is
what RPC's reputation is built on. It ain't broke; don't fix it.

If you were to produce an issue focused entirely on one type or series of
freight car, or one facet of railroad operations, this would not hurt my
feelings one bit. Ted Culotta recently published a book about one boxcar
design. It has a prominent place on my shelf, and I hope he does more.

Shawn Beckert

Tom,
Agree with all you say but would like to add a couple of points.

First, writing an article can seem overwhelming until one has
actually done it at least once.

Second, bad experiences with editors can discourage one from writing
and submitting more articles.

Personally I have come to prefer giving a seminar or clinic in
preference to writing an article. First, there's no question whether
or not it will be "published." Second, I don't lose my material to
some editor who will neither return nor publish it. Third, my
message isn't garbled by a well-meaning (I assume) editor making
changes.

Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

--- In STMFC@..., "Thomas M. Olsen" <tmolsen@U...> wrote:

Eric is right concerning magazine content. If no one writes the
article, then there is nothing to publish. I have heard the same
complaints about the PRRT&HS Keystone. I have had a number of

people

complaining about content. Some do not like articles about the Long
Island Railroad or complain about not enough contemporary articles

about

operations or mid-fifties
steam and diesel articles. They all work under the delusion that

the

magazine editor or publisher writes everything and is ignoring

their

complaints. When you say, "write something in the area of interest

that

you are interested in and submit it" and the response is that they
either 1) do not have any access to any material (even when they

have

major libraries and universities in the same town or nearby, or 2)

they

do not have time, cannot afford to travel to other locations,

museums or

industrial libraries (i.e. Hagley, Pennsylvania State Archives,
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania State Railroad Museum at Strasburg, Pa.,

etc.)

or any number of other excuses. The bottom line is that no matter

what

the editor of the magazine does, it will never satisfy these people.

Fortunately, we have a very competent set of editors for the

Keystone

and The Keystone Modeler and a large group of dedicated members who

are

willing to share their time (and money when necessary to travel and

do

research) to help produce these two magazines which are the
underpinnings of the PRRT&HS.

In closing, if it were not for the modelers and historians that

support

this web site and participate in the RPM seminars across the

country, we

would all still be pushing the antiquated equipment we started out

with

many years ago. It is the constructive nit-pickers that are

associated

with the magazines and support this movement, that has made it

possible

for the rest of the modelers in this hobby to enjoy the finest

equipment

being made at this time. Of course, there is still a lot of room

for

improvement. Now having said all that, I will put my soap box away

and

retire for the day!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@u...





eabracher@a... wrote:

In a message dated 12/21/05 10:18:25 AM, thompsonmarytony@s...
writes:

Whether it's the natural constituency of the
magazine, or Brown's preference, I don't know, but it is sure

obvious

in issue after issue.

bob only can publish what he gets. If you want other STUFF,

submit it.

eric


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anyone know the story of the Kratville series of freight car magazines
printed around 1980?

How about the "Freight Car Journal"? I subscribed (or was a member)
for a while but the subject matter didn't interest me - it was mostly
current stuff but every so often a pre1900 drawing would show up. One
thing I did like was a drawing of a RDG USRA mil gon. This magazine
(or society) is long defunct, right?

I also remember buying some color freight car cards (about 1980?). I
think only one printing came out.

"Prototype Modeler" and it's predicessor regional magazines had a lot
of freight car articles. I was sorry when they stopped publishing.
Richard hendrickson wrote some articles for them. I wonder what the
story was?

Ed

Tom Olsen wrote:

Eric is right concerning magazine content. If no one writes the
article, then there is nothing to publish . . . They all work under the delusion that the
magazine editor or publisher writes everything and is ignoring their
complaints . . . The bottom line is that no matter what
the editor of the magazine does, it will never satisfy these people.

Though broadly true, this is most misleading. Any good editor works continually to seek out and stimulate creation of articles that are needed. I've even heard it said that any editor who is entirely passive should be replaced with someone who understands the job. Some editors I know, actively twist arms to get articles written that they want. So let's not pretend that if Johnny doesn't decide to write it, it can't appear in the magazine. And let's also not pretend that the editor is helpless to control material that arrives (as was suggested about NG&SLG): the editor not only does and should recruit what IS wanted, but also obviously can reject unwanted material.
That's not to say that editors can publish the exact magazine they want, of course. But portraying them as passively waiting for stuff to be slipped under their door is simply incorrect.

Anthony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompsonmarytony@...

In the far distant past (1950s) MR used to give printed cars sides
similar to Champ and Red Ball slides.

I don't think this would be such a bad idea for N scale.

Ed

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
A niche largely unfilled to-date is a good discussion of the most
common

cars each RR owned, by class, by era, so that one might model those
classes.

I recall in years past that MR had articles on smaller railroads (GBW
comes to mind). There were 50 or so class 1 railroads, right? There
are probably experts for most of those roads.

Ed

On Dec 22, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Gatwood, Elden wrote:

With time increasingly short, there ARE many that will take the route
of
buying what prototypically-accurate freight cars as are available to
them, and be thankful for it. Kadee sells a lot of PS-1 and PS-2's for
that reason, even if most on the lists would not own up to it.

I prefer kits to RTR for the following reasons:

I do a slightly better job of building kits than the Chinese who
assemble RTR models.

Some details which are often omitted from RTR models (e.g., uncoupling
levers) are easier to add when the model is under construction rather
than after it is built.

If I want to modify anything, as often happens, (e.g., replace AB
brakes with K brakes), that's also easier to do when the model is being
built.

That said, I'll gladly take RTR models if they're all that's available
and they're well assembled. Being snobbish about this is pointless; at
my age, I really am running out of modeling time and I have way more
that I want to do than I'll get done in what's left of my lifetime.

Also, note that "ready to run" is misleading. Sure, RTR models can be
put on the track and run just as they come out of the box. But if you
want models that truly look like the real thing and measure up to the
standards many of us are adopting (scale size couplers, closer-to-scale
wheel sets), you'll need to change out the couplers and wheel sets and
add at least some aging and weathering, chalk marks, route cards,
re-stenciling of weight and repacking data, left over junk on empty
gondola and flat car decks, etc. – all the stuff that adds what I like
to call "the texture of realism." Otherwise your RTR rolling stock
isn't much more realistic than the train set under the Christmas tree.
I sometimes spend hours getting a "ready to run" freight car ready to
run on my diorama.

So I don't agree with the gloomy predictions that RTR amounts to the
destruction of the "real" hobby of model railroading. I'm old enough
to remember when the same doleful noises were being made about the
replacement of wood, cardboard, and stamped tin with injection-molded
plastic.

Richard Hendrickson

Elden

This probably is an appropriate idea for a publication like Ted's which
is aimed at modelers. I once wrote up a 1953 PFE roster with notes
indicating which cars could readily be modeled in HO scale -- it was a
very high percentage as I recall, and even more so today. I have thought
about doing it for SP/T&NO freight cars, but like everything it would take
a lot of time to do. Plus I think the best way to present such data is on
a web site, with hyperlinks to model & prototype photos...

Tim O.