Date   

Re: L&A Howe Truss Boxcars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Ok, I give up. I've been quietly following this thread as I have the same Sunshine kit, albeit still in the box to be built.

On the running board, wood or metal?

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry" <jrs060@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:51 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&A Howe Truss Boxcars


--- In STMFC@..., cobrapsl@a... wrote:

FANTASTIC Pat, The photo answers all my question except what type
power hand
brakes these cars were equiped with. I am assuming they were Ajax,
but can
anybody else put the last piece of this puzzle in place. Thanks in
advance.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

Paul, the L&A Howe Truss Cars were built with Ajax power hand
brakes. I have seen them show up in the backround of some old
L&A photos to prove this. Remember they were built in 1930,
rather late for the old chain wind-up brake.

Regards,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.









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Re: Life Like P2k 10k Insulated Tankcar Type 21

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Patrick Wider" <pwider@s...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "luzhin1" <gsmith@c...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., "Patrick Wider" <pwider@s...> wrote:

Other cars obviously for tar were:
Montazuma Asphalt (Pan American Petroleum Co.), Tarvia (The Barrett
Co.), and ROTAR (Dominion Tar & Chemical Co.).

This discussion is reminding me that I have some lovely Tarvia
(Barrett) decals but have never been able to find out what type tank
car (circa 1930) Barrett would have owned. Would it have been
insulated? Has anyone done up a Tarvia car? And what model did
you use?

Thanks,
Greg Smith
Greg, Check out BMX5281 I just loaded into the files section.

Pat Wider


Oh Pat, I'd love to model this one (BMX 5281). It would
not take that much work to change the details on the Life Like
car, a little plastic for the dome walkways, and some pipe
fittings from Precession Scale for the heater pipes. Yes,
the decals are the problem, even if you can use the logo
in the Microscale set you still have a problem with getting
the correct data and test information.

I had looked at some of the preproduction samples that
Larry Grubb had at Naperville and noted that the cars
all had correct lettering and data, but none were lettered
with heater pipe test data. They all were type ARA III
without heater pipes for general service, or ARA type IV
cars for volatile commodities that may need to have the
pressure unloading fitting added to the dome? ARA type
III cars for dense heavy commodities, asphalt, cut back,
or roofing tar would all have heater pipes, and or steam
jacketed outlet pipe.

Say, has anyone noted that the Sinclair car used in the add
photos by Walthers(Life Like)has a different car number on
the ends and underframe than on the tank side? Sure hope
thay fixed that!

Regards,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.


Re: MDT 1941 Composite reefer

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

Unlikely, there is an excellent photo of one of the 6000 series cars in the LOC collection
already painted in orange in the early 40s; given these were wood sided cars, I doubt any survived the
war without a repaint and would have gotten the change.


I would love to see a photo to the contrary though

Roger Hinman

On Dec 6, 2005, at 10:09 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

On Tue, December 6, 2005 5:38 pm, Roger Hinman wrote:
The 1941 cars were never in the white scheme as shown by numerous
builder's photos. The switch to orange appeared to come around 1940;
there are numerous photos in the LOC collection of South Water street
area in Chicago showing repaints of the earlier composite cars which
were white, now all being an orange color.

Roger Hinman
Roger,

Thanks for correcting me on that. That's what I get for working without a
net! It was the 1937 built 6000 series composite reefers that got white
paint, correct? Would these cars have lasted through WWII in this paint?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



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Re: MDT reefers

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

Dates are never absolute, but the white was only used on the first few lots of the steel
cars and if I get my notes I can state exactly which ones. My suspicion is they were repainted orange
during their next shopping period.

The 8300 series you mention, I'm presuming is the 8000 series of 1941; what you probably mean is the
large fleet of wood reefers built from 1911-1928 and yes many of them were painted orange as well as
many being renumbered.

Roger Hinman

On Dec 6, 2005, at 11:06 PM, Ron Morse wrote:

OK you guys, ya got me completly confused......the white steel MDT
reefers in the 9000 series built 1947, were they repainted orange
before the 1950's? Were the wood reefers in the 8300 series of 1924
painted orange before 1950's or scrapped before then?
Ron Morse
ETC






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Re: MDT 1941 Composite reefer

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

I hate to say it but 8350 is a bum number' the 8000 series cars were numbered 8000-8149

Roger Hinman

On Dec 7, 2005, at 3:46 AM, marcuj10 wrote:

Many thanks to you all.
I kind of thought it was wrong in paint-scheme and number. My main reference source is a
fair number of Sunshine flyers/data sheets from their HO models. I had my 1941 car painted
according to the Sunshine suggestions ie in the yellow, numbered 8350.
It's a shame about thw white car - its a great paint-scheme.
Thanks again for all the expertise deployed here.
Jon






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Re: L&A Howe Truss Boxcars

Paul Lyons
 

Jim, Go to the files and see the picture that Pat posted. It clearly shows
the car to have a wood roof walk and AB brakes. Take note of the brake part
locations as they are different from what is called for in the Sunshine
directions. With Jerry and Richard confirming these cars had Ajax power hand brakes all
the parts of the puzzle are finally in place. You might find it interesting
that I used Westerfield ladders on this kit as they were the only ones I could
find that had the right spacing.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Re: MDT "orange"

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

My suspicion on definitive orange is there may not have been one. On a painting diagram I have
for the 1947 white cars, it basically states white and a red shade for the two colors, no reference to
specific mfgs numbers as some other drawings have.

There is a very interesting photo in the LOC collection of 4 different MDT cars at a freight house, 3 have the faded
yellow appearance in the photos you mention below but the other is a much brighter orange more similar to the later color
used in the sixties, obviously having been freshly repainted. It leads one to belive their choice of colors weathered very quickly.

Roger Hinman

On Dec 7, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Ron Morse wrote:

Ed
Thank you for the link.
These then are the plain "MDT" not "NYC MDT" cars, that is where I
was confused!
Ron Morse
NYC/C&O O scale no longer confused in cool Springfield,MO



--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:

If you go to the library of congess photo web site -

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsacquery.html

and type in railroad freight cars (or yard or Illinois Central
R.R.)
for the search you will find a picture of MDT 5721 taken in 1943
which
is lemon yellow (i.e. no red). There's another print of MDT
reefers
beneath a Pabst sign which shows the same color.

I didn't find it today but there's also a photo of yellow MDT cars
assigned to IC that are also yellow.

All these photos were probably taken with the same batch of film
but
Kodachrome usually exaggerates color.

Does anyone have anything definative on MDT orange?

Ed





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Re: L&A Howe Truss Boxcars

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., cobrapsl@a... wrote:

FANTASTIC Pat, The photo answers all my question except what type
power hand
brakes these cars were equiped with. I am assuming they were Ajax,
but can
anybody else put the last piece of this puzzle in place. Thanks in
advance.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

Paul, the L&A Howe Truss Cars were built with Ajax power hand
brakes. I have seen them show up in the backround of some old
L&A photos to prove this. Remember they were built in 1930,
rather late for the old chain wind-up brake.

Regards,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.


Re: MSTL Station Car Records

ljack70117@...
 

On Dec 7, 2005, at 4:45 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:


Tom, are you a Yahoo member or just a group member? Anyone can join the
group, but only those with a Yahoo account can view the files area. At least
that is how it used to be.

Brian J Carlson
Not true. I am not a Yahoo member and I can access the files.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
The 50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is 90% probability you'll get it wrong.


Re: MSTL Station Car Records

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

They were up loaded to STMFPH, not STMFC, half of STMFC members don't
belong to STMFPH.

Which was considered the thru line on the MSTL to points south at Albia
from Minneapolis/StPaul? the one to the west thru Des Moines, or the
eastern one thru Marshaltown?

Allen Rueter

On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 04:10:41PM -0500, Thomas Baker wrote:
Doug:

I am very interested in downloading what you have posted in regard to freight movements through the three towns but I cannot break into the system. I am puzzled about this since I am on the STMFC, although the site informs me that I am not a member. I receive the e-mails daily. Any idea what the problem is.

Tom

________________________________

From: STMFC@... on behalf of Douglas Harding
Sent: Tue 12/6/2005 2:09 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] MSTL Station Car Records



Freight car fans I recently had brief access to some Station Books for the
M&StL towns of Minburn and Dallas Center, Iowa. These towns are in the
county west of Des Moines, Iowa. I was allowed to photocopy a few pages. I
have created an Excel Spreadsheet which contains the Station Car Records for
Minburn and Dallas Center Iowa for the years 1945 and 1949, and also
contains some listings for 1944, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1950, & 1954. As these
were hand written records, some were difficult to decipher, but I did my
best. The record lists every car that was Received at Minburn and Dallas
Center. What is really nice is the record lists where the car came from.
Some of the records contain Code numbers, indicating a town/location on the
M&StL. This Excel file has been added to the STMFPH files at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/ as there was no room in the
regular group files.

A few notations: I believe G Bx means an empty boxcar for grain loading.
Corn and soybeans were loaded out, but almost nothing else. What is really
interesting is the lack of Petroleum products delivered in 1945, remember
WWII was still going on, but in 1949 Petroleum products dominate deliveries
in Minburn. Also note that all Petroleum comes from TX, OK and KS. I can
only assume that, as this line came out of Des Moines, that Petroleum
products came to DM via the RI then interchanged with the M&StL. Can anyone
shed any light on this? I am trying to track down the M&StL interchange for
Petroleum products

Another thing I noticed in 1945 was the M&StL must have been relaying track
in the area. Lots of company cars and work trains.

In the Dallas Center records I noticed a very interesting traffic pattern.
In the summer of 1949 lots of tank cars with water were delivered to the
city of Dallas Center, along with cars of pipe. The city must have lost its
water supply, ie a drought or shallow wells dried up, and had to ship in
water until a new system was installed. Deliveries began the later part of
May and were regular until the end of August.

Remember both of these communities are small rural towns in Iowa, neither
had any manufacturing or factories. So it was Ag products out, basic
necessities it. It gives a nice picture of the traffic such towns witnessed.
This is also a wonderful record of the cars that were delivered.

I look forward to comments and analysis.

The file is in MS Excel, a spreadsheet program. If you do not have Excel,
Microsoft offers a free viewer, so you can look and print. Go to
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c8378bf4-996c-4569-
b547-75edbd03aaf0&displaylang=EN

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com








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------
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.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Re: MSTL Station Car Records

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Tom, are you a Yahoo member or just a group member? Anyone can join the
group, but only those with a Yahoo account can view the files area. At least
that is how it used to be.

Brian J Carlson


Re: MSTL Station Car Records

Thomas Baker
 

Doug:

I am very interested in downloading what you have posted in regard to freight movements through the three towns but I cannot break into the system. I am puzzled about this since I am on the STMFC, although the site informs me that I am not a member. I receive the e-mails daily. Any idea what the problem is.

Tom

________________________________

From: STMFC@... on behalf of Douglas Harding
Sent: Tue 12/6/2005 2:09 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] MSTL Station Car Records



Freight car fans I recently had brief access to some Station Books for the
M&StL towns of Minburn and Dallas Center, Iowa. These towns are in the
county west of Des Moines, Iowa. I was allowed to photocopy a few pages. I
have created an Excel Spreadsheet which contains the Station Car Records for
Minburn and Dallas Center Iowa for the years 1945 and 1949, and also
contains some listings for 1944, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1950, & 1954. As these
were hand written records, some were difficult to decipher, but I did my
best. The record lists every car that was Received at Minburn and Dallas
Center. What is really nice is the record lists where the car came from.
Some of the records contain Code numbers, indicating a town/location on the
M&StL. This Excel file has been added to the STMFPH files at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/ as there was no room in the
regular group files.

A few notations: I believe G Bx means an empty boxcar for grain loading.
Corn and soybeans were loaded out, but almost nothing else. What is really
interesting is the lack of Petroleum products delivered in 1945, remember
WWII was still going on, but in 1949 Petroleum products dominate deliveries
in Minburn. Also note that all Petroleum comes from TX, OK and KS. I can
only assume that, as this line came out of Des Moines, that Petroleum
products came to DM via the RI then interchanged with the M&StL. Can anyone
shed any light on this? I am trying to track down the M&StL interchange for
Petroleum products

Another thing I noticed in 1945 was the M&StL must have been relaying track
in the area. Lots of company cars and work trains.

In the Dallas Center records I noticed a very interesting traffic pattern.
In the summer of 1949 lots of tank cars with water were delivered to the
city of Dallas Center, along with cars of pipe. The city must have lost its
water supply, ie a drought or shallow wells dried up, and had to ship in
water until a new system was installed. Deliveries began the later part of
May and were regular until the end of August.

Remember both of these communities are small rural towns in Iowa, neither
had any manufacturing or factories. So it was Ag products out, basic
necessities it. It gives a nice picture of the traffic such towns witnessed.
This is also a wonderful record of the cars that were delivered.

I look forward to comments and analysis.

The file is in MS Excel, a spreadsheet program. If you do not have Excel,
Microsoft offers a free viewer, so you can look and print. Go to
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c8378bf4-996c-4569-
b547-75edbd03aaf0&displaylang=EN

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com








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Re: MDT "orange"

Ron Morse <ronstrainshop@...>
 

Ed
Thank you for the link.
These then are the plain "MDT" not "NYC MDT" cars, that is where I
was confused!
Ron Morse
NYC/C&O O scale no longer confused in cool Springfield,MO



--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:

If you go to the library of congess photo web site -

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsacquery.html

and type in railroad freight cars (or yard or Illinois Central
R.R.)
for the search you will find a picture of MDT 5721 taken in 1943
which
is lemon yellow (i.e. no red). There's another print of MDT
reefers
beneath a Pabst sign which shows the same color.

I didn't find it today but there's also a photo of yellow MDT cars
assigned to IC that are also yellow.

All these photos were probably taken with the same batch of film
but
Kodachrome usually exaggerates color.

Does anyone have anything definative on MDT orange?

Ed


Re: SSW decals - Blues

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Shawn,

For some good chemical reason, light to medium blues seems to have faded quicker than any other color in the 1950's. John Nehrich addressed this in one of his NEB&W Guides. Not only was the "blue" of the Blue Streak affected, but also the "blue" which the B&M applied to engines and boxcars in the mid-to-late 1950's. There should be other examples, too.

Part of the problem may have been the rarity of a natural blue pigment which was stable. For instance, when I was in sixth grade, the headmaster took a sabbatical in India. In India, he found that all pigments except blue could be found naturally; thus, we six graders were forced to pony up pennies to buy blue paint to send to India.

This fading did not seem to affect dark blue as much as lighter shades. In the modern day, the problem with blue seems to have been solved although Conrail Blue may be an example of quicker fading than say BN Green.

Tim Gilbert

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

I'm not clear on what the problem with the SSW herald faux pas is. But I have a photo of SSW 20067 taken in 1946 that shows a plain
white lightning bolt. Its a small photo, so I suppose an argument
could be made about the ability to detect the blue, but I'm pretty
confident from what I can see.
When new - or nearly new - the "Blue Streak" herald looked like this:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/by_number/33500-33849.htm

Blue lightning bolt with white outline. The Champ decal set gets this
correct, and I recommend using it for new or lightly weathered cars.

With moderate weathering you get this:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/ssw_bytype/box/ssw_box.htm

The blue is starting to fade, but the white outline is still there.
The next two images show cars where the white outline is fading or
almost gone:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/by_number/35175-35849.htm

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/by_number/34800-35149.htm

If you want to model a car that's really beat up from the elements,
then go ahead and use the Micro Scale set, which doesn't have the
white outline around the bolt. I suspect they didn't produce it with
that effect in mind, but without the white outline, that's all it's
good for.If you're going to model the car as Cotton Belt intended the
paint job to look, you need the Champ set.


Re: SSW decals

Andy Carlson
 

There is another option, a superior one in my
estimation, in selecting heralds for the "Blue Streak"
schemes. Tom Hood's CDS dry transfers for the Cotton
Belt has at least 2 sets which does this herald very
well, and unlike the aforementioned decals, comes out
100% opaque. The irritant to some about the need to
layer the CDS's 2 different colors can be an asset for
the more distressed forms Shawn cites (the heralds are
done in single colored layers which are applied one
over the other). Unfortunatly, CDS is going out of
business soon and these fine sets will become
difficult to obtain, so some searching now might be
prudent.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...> wrote:
If you're going to model the car as Cotton

Belt intended the
paint job to look, you need the Champ set.


Re: SSW decals

Shawn Beckert
 

I'm not clear on what the problem with the SSW herald faux pas is.
But I have a photo of SSW 20067 taken in 1946 that shows a plain
white lightning bolt. Its a small photo, so I suppose an argument
could be made about the ability to detect the blue, but I'm pretty
confident from what I can see.
When new - or nearly new - the "Blue Streak" herald looked like this:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/by_number/33500-33849.htm

Blue lightning bolt with white outline. The Champ decal set gets this
correct, and I recommend using it for new or lightly weathered cars.

With moderate weathering you get this:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/ssw_bytype/box/ssw_box.htm

The blue is starting to fade, but the white outline is still there.
The next two images show cars where the white outline is fading or
almost gone:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/by_number/35175-35849.htm

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/sswcars/by_number/34800-35149.htm

If you want to model a car that's really beat up from the elements,
then go ahead and use the Micro Scale set, which doesn't have the
white outline around the bolt. I suspect they didn't produce it with
that effect in mind, but without the white outline, that's all it's
good for.If you're going to model the car as Cotton Belt intended the
paint job to look, you need the Champ set.

Shawn Beckert


Dome and a half Barret Tarvia tank car

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Tom,

I too went back to Pennsy Power I and could not find the photo. I
wonder now where I saw it. I built the car almost 30 years ago, so it
was not a recent book. I distinctly remember the picture. It was a
PRR freight on the corridor being pulled by a P5 electric.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message----- (in part)
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Thomas M. Olsen
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 10:05 PM

Hi Andy,

I went looking for the Tarvia car behind an electric in Pennsy Power I
but could not locate the photo in question. I also checked Pennsy
Power
II and III to no avail.
. . .

Tom Olsen


Miller, Andrew S. wrote:

An interesting photo appears in Pennsy Power I of a train containing a
Barrett Tarvia tank car behind a PRR electric. I have always referred
to this car as the "dome and half" tank car. It was obviously a
single
dome car modified to two compartments. It has a large dome in the
middle of the car and a noticeably smaller one at one end. I built a
model of this car many, many years ago and unfortunately, not having
the standards I do today, wasted the decals on a crude model of an
inappropriate car. I think it was a early Mantua plastic tank car. I
have looked at this car recently in hopes of finding a way to bring it
up to my current standards for a stand-in, but it does not seem
likely.

regards,

Andy Miller


Looking for a Photo of a CB&Q Composite Hopper and PC Gondola

rrhistorian
 

Hello all,

I am looking for the address photo that is on the web somewhere. In
the foreground of the photo is a Penn Central Gondola (likely nee NYC
- with a C. 1950 built date) and in the rear a CB&Q composite gondola
in chinese-red paint with billboard "Everywhere West" lettering. The
photograph was taken just south of Chicago Union Station (CUS) C.
1973. In the rear of the photograph the massive PRR/Western
Warehousing freight terminal is being demolished. The CB&Q car was in
a line of cars supplying coal to the steam plant.

My specific interest in this photo is for use in illustrating a paper
on the history of the PRR freight terminal. While I can remember the
details of the photo clearly, I have not been able to relocate it
after many hours of searching, My hope is that someone here will know
the photo -- if for nothing else as this is a rather late date for a
composite hopper to be in service.

Many thanks,
Tom Cornillie


MDT "orange"

ed_mines
 

If you go to the library of congess photo web site -

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsacquery.html

and type in railroad freight cars (or yard or Illinois Central R.R.)
for the search you will find a picture of MDT 5721 taken in 1943 which
is lemon yellow (i.e. no red). There's another print of MDT reefers
beneath a Pabst sign which shows the same color.

I didn't find it today but there's also a photo of yellow MDT cars
assigned to IC that are also yellow.

All these photos were probably taken with the same batch of film but
Kodachrome usually exaggerates color.

Does anyone have anything definative on MDT orange?

Ed


Re: Small town oil distribution: cars/facilities/practices

jim peters
 

Gordon,

I'm a new member to the group - but in the past I was considering building a diorama of a small town oil distribution facility.

The one article that may be just what you're looking for is of The Bulk Oil Depot at Devils Lake, N.D.
December 1994, Railmodel Journal, page 12. There were a couple of others that might fit your needs - I'll go through my files tonight.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, B.C.


From: "Milepost 131" <mp131@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Small town oil distribution: cars/facilities/practices
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:05:26 -0500

I'm looking for photos/information on small town oil distributors and the
way this was handled with steam era tank cars.

Standard Oil seems to be one of the main companies.

Some questions:

Rivet patterns on the tank cars
Could they carry multiple products
Types of trucks and brakes
Railroad practices for placement of these cars
Loading unloading facilities
Length of time to unload a tank car
What a local distributor looked like

Lots of questions. Few answers.

Yeah I've search Model Railroader, Mainline etc.

I've seen whole "unit" trains during WWII but not detailed pictures or info.

Thanks.

Gordon Andrews

--
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