FWIW (not much) I believe one of these cars (in orginal form) is glimpsed in the 1942 film "Mokey." Robert ("Bobby") Blake is in a mood to hop a freight at night, which seems to be all ATSF equipment. I saw the movie (described by someone as among MGM's worst) just after studying a Sunshine flyer...
Scott Pitzer
---------------------------------------------------

On Dec 30, 2005, at 1:21 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

I have a copy of a builder's photo of a UTLX X-5 tank car built in 1937, number 99138. It appears from other research to be part of series 99106-99148. It lists SW CO as the location where the safety valves were tested, and, apparently, where the car was built.

Does anyone recognize SW CO as a car builder?

No, and I think I know all the tank car builders that were in business in the mid-1930s. However, UTL contracted for car maintenance with a number of companies around the country in locations that were not close to any UTL shops, and my guess would be that SW CO are the initials of one of those companies.

Richard Hendrickson

On Dec 31, 2005, at 12:06 PM, Paul Lyons <cobrapsl@...> wrote:

[snip]
My question to the group is about the trucks on these cars. The orginal Ft L
and N flats were built with Andrew trucks. The first sixteen cars, reconditioned
and converted to bulkheads, were 15 FtL's numbered 91280-91289, 91300,
91302-91305 and 1 Ft N numbered 91301. Since I doubt any photographic evidence
exists from the years 1949 and 1950 when these conversions took place, is it a safe
to assume they keep there original Andrews trucks or were these cars probably
upgraded with A-3 Ride Control trucks as the PDS sheet suggests.

Only the Ft-L class had Andrews trucks when built. The Ft-Ns were delivered with ARA cast steel trucks with spring planks and Barber lateral motion bolsters. When the cars of both classes were rebuilt in the mid-1940s from 50' to 53'6", they retained their original trucks, and the photographic evidence I have shows that the Ft-Ns kept their until they were retired. In later years, however, some (but not all) Ft-Ls had their Andrews trucks replaced with the same trucks that were originally on the Ft-Ns (for which the closest HO equivalent is probably Accurail's mis-named "Bettendorf" truck).

I have lots of photos. Tell me which class you're modeling and an approximate date and I'll send you appropriate scans off-list.

Richard Hendrickson

The photo of URTX 97136 clears up several questions I had, the first being when URTX dropped its full name usually in serif letters above the URTX reporting marks. The reweigh date makes it clear that the company had dropped the full name and gone to gothic lettering at least by 1937.

The other question is the color of the car. Books and articles say that the sides were yellow with box car red or brown ends and roof. Well, maybe, but I saw ONE of these cars about 1955 while riding CGW Train #5 from Minneapolis to Marshalltown. We picked up a reefer at Randolph, I believe, and dropped it off at Sumner, Iowa.

At the time I had no idea what a URTX car as indicated by the reproting marks on the end was. Not until we dropped the car off on a house track, pulled away from the track, and backed onto the main line to the depot did I notice that it was a car leased to the CGW. The ends and roof were definitely black, not box car red or brown, and sides were unmistakably yellow.

Do you, Pat, have any information as to the color of the car depicted in the photo?

Tom

Group:
The Fourth Quarter 2005 issue of The Warbonnet, the SFRH&MS in-house
magazine, includes an article "Evolution of the Santa Fe freight car fleet
from a modeler's perspective, Part 3 - 1920s" that I wrote with assistance
from Richard Hendrickson (thanks, Richard!). It continues his earlier
effort that covered the 1930s-1950s. The article provides some background
on the Santa Fe's economic and business issues, a discussion of changes in
car technology, photos of about twenty or so cars, a statistical treatment
of the increase in car length during that period, and a list of significant
freight car classes and available models. The Warbonnet is available from
some hobby shops or from the Society at www.atsfrr.net.
This is my first effort at serious prototype historical writing and I'd
appreciate any feedback, corrections, or suggestions on making future
articles better/more useful. You can email me at "email:ehiser@..."
(leave out the "email"). I appreciate all the help and information shared
by list members!

Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ

Dave Nelson writes:

By and large tho they settled on blending in Arkansas met coal,

which might explain the common appearance of MP hoppers in photographs taken
on the DRGW in Utah.

And perhaps the photos showing Mopac hoppers in Laramie.

Mike Brock

Hi,
For those interested in N&W HL and H-9 hoppers,
Please view them on my web page.
Rich Yoder
http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym_fc.htm

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
www.richyodermodels.com
610-678-2834 after 6:00 pm est. until 10:00pm

Tim Gilbert wrote:

That said, however, I doubt that many of the battleship gons went
over Sherman Hill because those gons were designed to be unloaded at
dumpers, and I don't believe that the West had many if any at all.

Geneva Steel near Provo Utah used rotary dumpers to unload their coking
coal, which BTW, was normally carried in ordinary hoppers marked for the
Carbon County RR. To get the right blend for coking the steel mill also
"imported" met coal from outside of Utah... including one year using coal
from B.C. By and large tho they settled on blending in Arkansas met coal,
which might explain the common appearance of MP hoppers in photographs taken
on the DRGW in Utah.

Dave Nelson

On the L&N car they look more like corrugations, almost dreadnaught-like, so I was surprised to see such a wide space between them.
Scott Pitzer

The December issue of Mainline Modeler has an article on N&W hoppers
including the building of the much malleigned Eastern Car Works kit.
Apparently the author feels the kit is worth what he paid for it.

There are also articles on oil paint weathering and rivet making and
some ATSF steam era photos.

There's still some content that put me to sleep but this is one of the
better recent issues.

Ed

you can buy back issues from the publisher at
http://www.railmodeljournal.com/

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

On Dec 31, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Mike Brock wrote:

Tim Gilbert says:

Therefore, whatever coal was carried westbound over Sherman Hill in N&W
cars was carried in hoppers, or perhaps, bottom-dropping gons.

Of course the number of N&W hoppers traveling over Sherman Hill during our
period must have been quite small. However, I am still curious about the
train mentioned to me by Ross Grenard, author and photographer during the
time. I've mentioned this before and, of course, it was likely a one time
deal but Ross claimed that while riding the only UP steam excursion behind a
Challenger in the '50's, a train of Pennsy hoppers loaded with coal passed
by the stopped excursion [ it was stopped to let the occupants view the
trains traveling over the Hill ]. The assumption is/was that the train was a
result of a coal strike at the mines in Hannah and Rock Springs. I've never
heard any other reference to this peculiar train.

Mike Brock

During the mine strike on the Un Pac we got a lot of oil burners on the Kansas division but we did get some eastern coal of use. The engine crews hated it. It did not burn hot enough, it mad big clinkers in the fire box. They had to keep cleaning the fire. The eastern coal was poor stuff as far as we were concerned.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...

Tim Gilbert wrote

Scott,

Why were there N&W coal cars on Sherman Hill? Because a few customers
west of the Rockies thought that the coal mined on the N&W had enough
qualities which western coal did not have to justify the additional
transportation costs.

That said, however, I doubt that many of the battleship gons went over
Sherman Hill because those gons were designed to be unloaded at dumpers,
and I don't believe that the West had many if any at all. Indeed, they
were rather scarce in the East being used primarily to transfer coal
from rail into ships or barges.

Therefore, whatever coal was carried westbound over Sherman Hill in N&W
cars was carried in hoppers, or perhaps, bottom-dropping gons.

Tim Gilbert

It was meant in jest Tim. That is what was meant by the smiley face. I too, doubt many battleship gons went over Sherman Hill.

Scott Seders

Tim Gilbert says:

Therefore, whatever coal was carried westbound over Sherman Hill in N&W
cars was carried in hoppers, or perhaps, bottom-dropping gons.

Of course the number of N&W hoppers traveling over Sherman Hill during our period must have been quite small. However, I am still curious about the train mentioned to me by Ross Grenard, author and photographer during the time. I've mentioned this before and, of course, it was likely a one time deal but Ross claimed that while riding the only UP steam excursion behind a Challenger in the '50's, a train of Pennsy hoppers loaded with coal passed by the stopped excursion [ it was stopped to let the occupants view the trains traveling over the Hill ]. The assumption is/was that the train was a result of a coal strike at the mines in Hannah and Rock Springs. I've never heard any other reference to this peculiar train.

Mike Brock

sseders@... wrote:

Al Westerfield wrote:

We will be launching the N&W GKa battleship gon at Cocoa Beach. See

photos

at our web site www.westerfield.biz - Al Westerfield

Very impressive. Boy, what a sight it must have been - a string of these behind a Big Boy going over Sherman Hill. :)

Scott,

Why were there N&W coal cars on Sherman Hill? Because a few customers west of the Rockies thought that the coal mined on the N&W had enough qualities which western coal did not have to justify the additional transportation costs.

That said, however, I doubt that many of the battleship gons went over Sherman Hill because those gons were designed to be unloaded at dumpers, and I don't believe that the West had many if any at all. Indeed, they were rather scarce in the East being used primarily to transfer coal from rail into ships or barges.

Therefore, whatever coal was carried westbound over Sherman Hill in N&W cars was carried in hoppers, or perhaps, bottom-dropping gons.

Tim Gilbert

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

Pat, is that a rebuilt reefer? I ask because of the heavy
underframe plus the sill details.

Tim O.

File : /URTX97136.jpg
Uploaded by : patrickwider <pwider@s...>
Description : URTX 97136 (CGW) Meat Reefer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/URTX97136.jpg
Regards,
patrickwider <pwider@s...>

Yes - The build date is 5/23 and reweigh/rebuild date is 7/36. The car looks brand
spanking new in the photo.

Pat

Al Westerfield wrote:

We will be launching the N&W GKa battleship gon at Cocoa Beach. See photos
at our web site www.westerfield.biz - Al Westerfield

Very impressive. Boy, what a sight it must have been - a string of these behind a Big Boy going over Sherman Hill. :)

Scott Seders

Guys,
I just finished building Sunshine kit #66.2, which is a Santa Fe Ft L or N
flatcar with original bulkheads for dry wall shipments. Let me say that the
bulkhead construction is a bitch and if there is any interest I will share my
construction techniques, very different than the instructions, with the group.
My question to the group is about the trucks on these cars. The orginal Ft L
and N flats were built with Andrew trucks. The first sixteen cars, reconditioned
and converted to bulkheads, were 15 FtL's numbered 91280-91289, 91300,
91302-91305 and 1 Ft N numbered 91301. Since I doubt any photographic evidence
exists from the years 1949 and 1950 when these conversions took place, is it a safe
to assume they keep there original Andrews trucks or were these cars probably
upgraded with A-3 Ride Control trucks as the PDS sheet suggests. As always,
any assistance is greatly appreicated.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

Richard - I had a sinking feeling you would say that but I waved it off. - Al

Launching a battleship, eh? That should make a big splash.

Richard Hendrickson



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Well, Doug, I think you are too modest. I wish I knew what you have already forgotten about the meat packing industry and the refrigerator cars the meat plants used. Thanks for your help and thanks, too, to Mr. Wider. The people on this list are very helpful.

Tom