Tim,

The UP Freight Shippers' Guide shows the following under "Oil
Refineries":

HYNES, CALIF.
Richfield Oil Co.
Operators Oil Refining
Harbor Refinng Co

LONG BEACH, CALIF.
Hancock Oil Co., of Calif.
The Texas Co.
Richfield Oil Co.
Standard Oil Co.
McMillan Petroleum Co.
Gilmore Oil Co.
Shell Oil Co.

LOS ANGELES, CALIF.
Associated Oil Co.
Continental Oil Co.
Crescent Refining & Oil Co.
Fletcher Oil Co.
Gilmore Oil Co.
Hancock Oil Co.
L. A. Refining Co.
MacMillan Products Co.
Petrol Corp.
Posolube Refining Co.
Richfield Oil Co. of Calif.
Seaside Oil Co.
Shell Oil Co.
Signal Hill Gasoline Co.
Signal Oil Co.
The Texas Co.
Union Oil Co. of Calif.
Wilshire Oil Co., Inc.

LOS ANGELES HARBOR, CALIF.
Union Oil Co. of Calif. (Wilmington, Calif.)
Pacific States Oil Co., do.


DENVER, COLO.
Bay Petroleum Corp.
Continental Oil Co.
Perry Petroleum Co.
Oriental Refinery.


POCATELLO, IDAHO
Idaho Refining Co.

TWIN FALLS, IDAHO
Gem State Oil Refining Co.


GORHAM, KANSAS
Standard Oil & Gas Co.

McPHERSON, KANSAS
The Globe Oil & Refining Co.
The Bay Petroleum Corp.

TOPEKA, KANSAS
Topeka Refinoil Co.


BUTTE, MONT.
The Waite Oil Co.


OMAHA, NEBR.
Searle Petroleum Co.

SIDNEY, NEBR.
Porter Oil Co.


SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
Utah Oil Refinery Co.

WOODS CROSS, UTAH
Wasatch Oil Refining Co.


SPOKANE, WASH.
Inland Empire Reineries
Montana Headlight Oil Co.


CHEYENNE, WYO.
Frontier Refining Co.

LARAMIE, WYO.
Albany Refining Co.

PARCO, WYO.
Sinclair Refining Co.

S. TORRINGTON, WYO.
Goshen Refinery Co.

--------------------

The agent in Kansas City was too lazy to make entries in the Shippers'
Guide, so I have had to rely on the guides of the CMStP&P and CGW for
Kansas City info. They show:

[per CMStP&P, 1943]

KANSAS CITY, MO.
Philips Petroleum Co.
Sinclair Refining Co.
Standard Oil Co.

[per CGW, 1957]
Socony-Mobil Pipeline Terminal

-----------------

Back to the UP book. In addition to the above, under the heading of
"PETROLEUM PRODUCTS" are a zillion oil dealers, as well as these entries
for "bulk stations" in McPherson:

McPHERSON, KANSAS
Standard Oil Co., bulk sta.
Texaco Co., bulk station.
Sinclair Refiing Co., do.
Phillips Refining Co., do.
Conoco Bulk Station, do.
White Eagle Co., do.


I hope this begins to help you (or others interested in oil traffic on the
UP.)


Regards,

-Jeff



--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

Be Specific was first used in 1949. There was experimentation
from 1950-1951. In 1951 the two lines were separated by 18".

Just wonderng when the this UP slogan first came into widespread use?
I've got a Trix ACR 40' B-50-27 that I'd like to use, but I fear that
my late 1954 era is too early for this scheme. Anyone stripped one of
these cars? What did you use?
Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerche'
Duncan, BC

Gregg Mahlkov wrote:

The only two commodities where there were a great many "rollers" shipped were perishables and lumber. That is, cars with a bogus consignee at a far distant point which were to be sold prior to arrival at that point and diverted to a new destination. For example, the people of Terre Haute, Indiana, appeared to eat 100 pounds of bananas a day apiece from the billing records out of New Orleans, but reconsignment orders awaited all those cars when received from the IC at Effingham.

Gregg,

I believe that reconsignment occurred only when the load in the car had been sold after the original or subsequent governing way bill (there could be reconsignments of reconsignments) had been cut. Diversion occurred to change the car's routing from that of the governing waybill . There could be diversions without reconsignments, and reconsignments without diversions albeit the latter would be rather rare.

Bananas were distributed quite differently than other fresh fruit and vegetables because that distribution was controlled by only two companies: - Standard Fruit and United Fruit. The companies cultivated the bananas in Central America and the West Indies; owned the banana boats which brought the fruit to the US (on all three coasts - Atlantic, Pacific & Gulf of Mexico) and Europe; and controlled the distribution of the product almost down to the individual retail market. After all, United's ad jingle was "I am a Chiquita Banana and I come to say..." with the Brazilian accent of Carmen Miranda. To whom would these companies reconsign their carloads of bananas?

I imagine that Effingham IL was used for shipments through New Orleans as a staging point for further rail movements throughout the Mid West. Effingham IL may have been the northernmost point on the IC's Southern Tariff District and Routing Guides. Shipments north of Effingham could be routed via Trunk Lines' (Eastern), or Western Districts subject to respectively Trunk or Western Routing Guides and Tariffs.

In contrast, there were no such oligopies controlling the transcontinental fresh fruit and vegetable movements from the West Coast. In that trade, packers usually shipped before the product was sold; the product would be sold to a broker en route who might sell to another broker, and so on. Each time the carload was sold would result in a reconsignment.

Diversions could take place with or without reconsignments as brokers tried to rout the carload of (non-banana) produce to markets where the best price was afforded. The boundaries of Tariff Districts usually had no play in making the decision to reconsign or divert.

You should treat the above as questions. Thanks,

Tim Gilbert

That's why I bought an electronic postal scale years ago. Great for
weighting cars.

Jerry Glow

Gene and I are building our freight car fleets the same way.

Ed and Pat are great for putting car number series' in their articles. Ted does not...irritating.

My approach is: !- To see a photo of a freight car, find the number series, see if it's on Bill's list, if so (and it is carrying a commodity I can use on the layout) I buy it and assemble it.
2-Carry the list with me to a meet, show and see with a model that interests me is on the list.

DO NOT stock pile models!!! I call it a 'backlog'! I have built up a backlog because of layout construction. It becomes difficult to choose which model to build. I end up not building any. Yesterday I couldn't decide what to build so I ended up building a Sunshine kit for a friend.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:

The brake wheel is the same as a CGW 92000 series.
Clark Propst

OOps! Both the 91000 and 92000 series had Superior hand brakes. I
looked at a photo, but not Gene's book.
Clark Propst

I wonder whether the Minuteman missle or whatever it was traveled in freight trains. I know that a missle car and perhaps a control car traveled in passenger trains. In 1968 I rode the Rock Island "Plainsman" from Iowa Falls to Minneapolis. It was winter, and the train was about two hours late into Iowa Falls and getting later as we went along. There it came with its three coaches, a diner lounge, mail car and baggage cars, and the two or three missle cars. The military personnel must have been in one of the cars. We definitely did not see them because it was snowing and very cold outside.

Tom

Can't speak to the US of A but there were definitely armed/armored
trains in Mexico and Uganda. See Signor and Kirchner, "Southern
Pacific of Mexico", p 29; and Patience, "Steam in East Africa"
(Heinemann: Nairobi, 1976), p 49.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

A number of the WWII and Korean War era videos show 'messangers'
or 'guards' (don't know the correct term) riding military equipment

on

flat cars. Don't know if they were armed or not.

The military had until recently guard cars. During the first gulf

war

I saw military equipment shipped in solid trains accompanied by

armed

guards riding in either a DODX guard cars or one of the special SP
white RR police cabooses.

Gene Green

A number of the WWII and Korean War era videos show 'messangers'
or 'guards' (don't know the correct term) riding military equipment on
flat cars. Don't know if they were armed or not.

The military had until recently guard cars. During the first gulf war
I saw military equipment shipped in solid trains accompanied by armed
guards riding in either a DODX guard cars or one of the special SP
white RR police cabooses.

Gene Green

Thanks to all who responded. I posted in frustration after spending
nearly an hour on Westerfield's site and finding, mostly, that the
number series is not to be found in his otherwise very informative
descriptions. In most cases I was unable to read the car number in
his photos and feel certain I could read it accurately.

I'll keep plugging along as I have been. It'll keep me busy.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...>
wrote:

Gene Green wrote:

I find myself wishing I knew the number series for HO model

freight

cars, especially those from F&C, Sunshine and Westerfield. I

know

that the Sunshine and Westerfield instructions pretty

consistently

have that information but how do I find it without first buying

the

kit?

Al Westerfield's web page generally gives roster information and a

brief

history for each number series of kit. I don't know anything about

F&C,

and of course Sunshine doesn't have a web presence at all.

Do I just need to continue wading through the material from

various

RR historical societies, magazine articles, Morning Sun color

guides

until I find what I'm looking for?

Yep.

Shawn Beckert

--- In STMFC@..., Owen Thorne <owen@...> wrote:

Seriously, thin sheet lead works wonders for these gondola weight
quandaries. I just bought another package of various thicknesses
of sheet lead marketed by T & J Rail Services P.O. Box 1965
Rancho Cordova CA 95741-1965. the five sheet variety pack PB-004
contains several thicknesses and is perfect for quite a few HO
cars and costs around six bucks a pack.

Do you have a phone number, e-mail or web site address for this
company? Did you buy this in a hobby shop?

I suspect this is one time you want the lead sheet to be perfectly
flat which I assume it is in this variety pack.

Does the manufacturer tell you how much the lead sheet weighs per
square inch?

Ed

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Do you mean "armored trains" or "armed trains"? I have found

veiled

references to both existing in the US, but little in the way of
evidence.

I mean trains carrying weapons. I don't know the train my coworkers
saw in Cleveland looked like but somehow they knew it was a military
train, supposedly traveling all over the country.

Ed

I just noticed the RMC ad for the Kadee #148 coupler with whisker
springs. It occurred to me that the Sergent modification I described in
an earlier post might be sprung in a similar way. If one drilled an
angled hole on each side of the remaining shank and ACCed a light springy
wire in the holes on each side these would act as springs against the
side of the draftgear box. The springing, however, would need to be very
light. This is just an idea and I have not experimented with it yet.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA

System owner/administrator
I have tried on a number of occasions to attempt to register but to no avail. My Yahoo name is Loyola. I am getting annoyed with Yahoo.
J.A. Van Buekenhout CMA
jvanbu1347@...

On Feb 3, 2006, at 9:12 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote:

Larry,

By "bogus consignee" I meant one that did not have a physical presence
(siding or street address) at the destination.

And nothing prevented a shipper from consigning a car to himself care of the
Freight Agent XYXRR for futherance unless the tariff specifically prohibited
diversion or reconsignment.

And of course the railroad charged for it. We never did anything for free.
<vbg>

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast
----------

A consignee does not have to have a siding or presents in a town or city. We had many cars of wheat arrive In Salina Ks from the west owned by a wheat dealer with a note at the top of the way bill "STOP AT SALINA KS FOR INSPECTION". We put these cars into storage right away where the Kansas grain inspection department could get to them to take samples. After running test on the wheat they would notify the consignee (owner) on the way bill the results of the tests. Then the cars started moving east again and the owner had them up for sale and were diverted as they moved east. Some of them were diverted before continuing their trip. A lot of them were sold to the flour mills in Salina.
The owner told the agent and his office sent us labels to put on the way bill of the new consignee and destination. Cars already gone were diverted by the agent at the next terminal where the the cars stop.
In other words there are no bogus consignees any where. If you have someone ship you a car of spuds from Idaho to you at Salina Ks and your warehouse is at Kipp Kansas about 15 miles from Salina. Then by your definition you are a bogus consignee. Not so. The RR puts your car on the team track and lets you know it is there and you bring your trucks to Salina and unload your car.
You can ship anything you want from anywhere to yourself anywhere you are not bogus even if you live in Boca Raton FL
Bogus!!!! You guys are to hung up on wrongly painted cars. Big grin
8>)
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...

Tim Gilbert wrote:

On another tank car matter, over the years, many have suggested that
layouts should have generic tank cars. What is a generic tank car -
petroleum, wine, chemical, tallow, etc.? Should any consideration be
given to whom the shipper and consignee was?

Clearly this would depend on era and geography, but pre-1950, when petroleum tanks were more dominant, plain black UTLX or GATX cars would clearly serve as "generic" cars. Cars for products such as tallow or wine would have to be rare, I'd think, for many parts of the country and thus less appropriate as "generic" cars. There is also the issue for some modeling as to whether a particular car, tank or otherwise, is a "through" or bridge-traffic car, or one which is switched, spotted, etc. The bridge traffic obviously can and likely should differ from on-layout shipper and consignee traffic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Larry,

By "bogus consignee" I meant one that did not have a physical presence (siding or street address) at the destination.

And nothing prevented a shipper from consigning a car to himself care of the Freight Agent XYXRR for futherance unless the tariff specifically prohibited diversion or reconsignment.

And of course the railroad charged for it. We never did anything for free. <vbg>

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast
----------
Larry Jackman wrote:

Gentlemen
The RRs did not control the shipping or cosigning cars of freight. If
you had a car of grain to ship, you asked your local agent for an
empty car. You loaded that car. Then you filled out a bill of lading.
It could be your form or you could have gotten it from the RR but
when you filled it out it was yours. You then gave this to your agent
and he made a way bill. You are a shipper. There is no such thing as
a bogus consignee. It could be any name you want to use and if you
were shipping it with the idea of selling it en-route then it would
probably be your name because you are the owner. The RR has nothing
to do with selling it and nothing to do with diverting it until you
notify them it has been sold. And you tell them who the new consignee
is and where it is to go to. What happens if the car arrives to the
destination you listed before you sold it. The RR does not care. The
put it into a storage track, tell you it is here and you have two
days to unload it, sell it or what ever. After the two days you start
paying good money as long as it sits in the yard. You sell it and
tell the RR the new consignee and where it is to go and away it goes.
There was a fee for the diversion. So the ICRR does not care hoot
about your bananas. They will make money on hauling them for you.
The only part the RR plays is they transport freight for a shipper to
a consignee.

Thank you

ljack70117@... wrote:

On Feb 3, 2006, at 12:58 PM, Dave Nelson wrote:

The Illinois Central must have used a bogus consignee, say in
Chicago, handed over to the ICC every waybill ending in the digit 1
as required by the ICC's 1% waybill analysis program, and then as
demanded, accepted reconsignments to other destinations. The ICC,
not knowing better (or perhaps not caring) simply recorded it as yet
another LA to IL routing.

Larry, if you replace the word "bogus", above, with the words "been given"
it will meet the drift of your correction and remain consistant with my
original post -- to wit, perhaps the copy of the waybill sent to the ICC did
not record the final destination but only the original.

If that's the case then any ICC state-to-state distribution reports that
involved commodities that were routinely reconsigned should be regarded with
some suspicion.

Dave Nelson

Gene,

Although I have a very limited number of products to offer, and probably none that you'd be interested in <vbg> I place the Shop Bulletin for each of the kits on the web site which provides railroad class, number series, built dates, etc.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD
www.pocahontasmodels.com