At 12:45 AM 11/8/2005 -0000, you wrote:

I felt the new vendor hall with the feeding frenzy, narrow aisles, and
shorter hours than past years lost a lot of the charm and accessibility
of years past. As others have mentioned it was a lot harder to look
through the photo collections in the limited time and space. Losing
Friday night made the choice between a clinic or shopping a much harder
choice. Personally I liked the old way.

I'd have to agree. The large hall vending room was too much like a GATS
show, and I didn't spend much time in there. Didn't spend any time looking
at photos, it was just too crunched.

Andy

I am making the HO scale Bachman bobber kit in HO scale accurate to the prototype. need a manufacturer name and part number that will best model the window shades on the non cupola windows.Some photos of prototypes are on the website below.

Sincerely ,

Tyler Turpin



. Lehigh & New England caboose #512 four-wheel "Bobber",

www.jeff-z.com/wks/cabfrtroster/512/512.html



Railroad Museum Of Pennsylvania Page-3-of-3-Stan's RailPix- !

Lehigh Valley Railroad four-wheel wooden "bobber" caboose # 2606.


The LH&R Caboose No. 81.

home.cyberave.com/~wisner/Factsandhistory/History/LHR.html


---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Hey Clark, All,

I thought Naperville was good. This was only my second
time, but I really learned a lot and enjoyed meeting
everyone.

Business first. I've used Ted Culotta's Southern and
Seaboard HO decal sets--many of them--and they are
VERY THIN. Thinner than anything I've ever used. For
example, when applying decals, I normally lay down a
light wash of Micro Sol and then lay the decal on top
of it. I did that with Ted's decals and they curled up
and were ruined. From that point on, I laid them down
on a light coat of distilled water and had terrific
results.

Back to Naperville. I was disappointed that Sunshine's
room opened without notice, but it's their meet and I
guess I don't have room to complain. It was like a
feeding frenzy in there. On another note, I arrived at
1256 hrs. on Thursday and Tricia frantically informed
me that I was presenting at 1300--just four minutes
away, and that I was "not allowed to start late". I
managed to get my show off without too many problems,
but I wish they could've notified me beforehand. At
least the episode gave me a good story to bore
everybody with.

Frankly, I had a better time making fun of Ed Hawkins
running around with his briefcase. It was chock full
of photos and other secrets. He should've had it
handcuffed to his arm. He had it the entire
time--maybe he had the "launch codes" in there...

Oh yeah--another note. I spent $70.00 and a heck of a
lot of time making 135 quality handouts for my
presentation. Every one of them were distributed to
attendees. I note that many other presenters didn't
bother making or distributing handouts, which, quite
frankly, pisses me off. It's a requirement for
Naperville to have a handout. As Martin says, "It's
expected". I went to a lot of trouble and expense for
the benefit of others, and am very disappointed that
many other presenters didn't reciprocate. I probably
came back with three handouts from other
presentations--that's it.

Ted's new Southern and SP gondolas were there at
Naperville and looked terrific. I was a little
disappointed with the rest of the model vendors,
except for the photo dealers which were terrific as
always. I was quite surprised to see the number of
diesel (disease-el, as one of my buddies says) era
models in the display room. They're slowly taking over
the meet. Plus, most of the award winners in the model
room were disease-el era models.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:50:26 -0600
From: "Clark Propst" <cepropst@...>
Subject: N'ville atfermath

I was just scanning through the latest message list
at Yahoo groups. I see lots of messages about
Martin's stuff, but little about the rest of the
meet.

I'm curious as to what people thought of the
'vendors day' this year. I picked up Gene's new
reefer book (which is well worth the discounted
price) I also got some of Ted's stuff. Has anyone
tried his decals yet? I didn't get a chance to ask
if you could order the new resin kits there.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Clark Propst

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014

Jeff English wrote:

I agree with you, Dave. I was only able to spend a grand total of
about 15 minutes in the sales room before I had to run off, and then
later realized I had missed my last opportunity. It was clear in
those 15 minutes, however, that the atmosphere was far less
conducive to enjoying the shopping experience.

I agree also. I heard the speculation in the hallways that Martin had restricted the time and space of the vendors so as to maximize exposure of his own model sales, relative to all the other vendors. Since it's his show, I guess that's his privilege, but certainly the "vendor ballroom" for one day was not anything like optimum for me. And Martin's selection was well picked over on Friday.

Secondly, I find it amusing when people, mostly on this list, rant
about wanting businesses to conform to their desire for fingertip
access. I, for one, admire both Martin Lofton and Bob Liljestrand
for sticking to what works for them and focussing on what they want
to do. I'm much happier that they produce what they do rather than
wasting time on the 'net.

Well said, Jeff. Anyone who wants to criticize Martin or Bob is, of course, free to do so, but it would be nice if those so choosing would give a brief thought to the business model of the OTHER GUY. Amazing as it seems, not everyone wants to do business the way YOU want them to.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., "dh30973" <76523.1060@c...> wrote:

I felt the new vendor hall with the feeding frenzy, narrow aisles,

and

shorter hours than past years lost a lot of the charm and

accessibility

of years past. As others have mentioned it was a lot harder to

look

through the photo collections in the limited time and space.

Losing

Friday night made the choice between a clinic or shopping a much

harder

choice. Personally I liked the old way.

I agree with you, Dave. I was only able to spend a grand total of
about 15 minutes in the sales room before I had to run off, and then
later realized I had missed my last opportunity. It was clear in
those 15 minutes, however, that the atmosphere was far less
conducive to enjoying the shopping experience.

Secondly, I find it amusing when people, mostly on this list, rant
about wanting businesses to conform to their desire for fingertip
access. I, for one, admire both Martin Lofton and Bob Liljestrand
for sticking to what works for them and focussing on what they want
to do. I'm much happier that they produce what they do rather than
wasting time on the 'net.

Jeff English
Troy, New York
birthplace and childhood home of Maureen Stapleton, star of stage
and screen in the era of STMFC

I agree with Dave insofar as the photo collections go -- I hope next year
there is a separate room (or rooms) open Thu-Fri-Sat for photo vendors,
who are a very valuable part of the whole meet! I didn't mind the ballroom
for "goods" shopping, but looking through photos shouldn't be rushed.

Tim O'Connor

I felt the new vendor hall with the feeding frenzy, narrow aisles, and
shorter hours than past years lost a lot of the charm and accessibility
of years past. As others have mentioned it was a lot harder to look
through the photo collections in the limited time and space. Losing
Friday night made the choice between a clinic or shopping a much harder
choice. Personally I liked the old way.

Dave Hussey

--- In STMFC@..., "Eric Hansmann" <ehansmann@a...> wrote:

Gene S. wroe:

Does Railshops have a presence on the web? I'd like to get a few

of

the carbon black hoppers and see what else they may offer.

==================================================


I also did a Google search and a scan over the links at the NMRA

Internet

directory. I came up with no hits on either account. It makes me

wonder if

that is the real name of the company, or if the note taker mixed

things up

between photos, and note taking, and talking to others and,

drooling over

the next model....I know I've jotted details down wrong in

overwhelming

situations.

Has anyone heard of Railshops before the latest N'ville meet? Are

there any

other models they have announced?

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.

Railshops, is a brand new venture from Chris Zygmont. The Carbon
Black car is the first project. Jimmy Booth of PBL/Hi-Tech Details is
doing the tooling for Chris. The car at the show was literally "hot
off the press", test shots without any mold polishing and assembled
Thursday night to show on Friday, and Chris took it back home and
painted it Friday night. The hopper bays did not even get shot untill
last week (after the show). Give them a chance to get things finished
and I'm sure there will be some announcements on avaibility, price,
versions, etc.

Dave Hussey

Gregg and Brian;
Thanks for the info on the Athearn gons. I guess that I was a bit frustrated
with the Yahoo search engine and didn't go through the messages well enough.
Thanks again...this is a big help!

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District

Thanks, Tim O'Connor,

Unfortunately, due to a continuing changing web site we no longer have as
much information about the PS-1 box cars posted as we use to.
There are a number of features besides the "cute" dimples and roof panels
that need to be noted between the pre 1950 and 1950 PS-1 box cars.
For us the main factor for not producing the pre 1950 PS-1 is the
underframe. "Sometime" after the introduction of the first PS-1 box car
Pullman Standard had a transition period where they changed from the common
AAR underframe to their proprietary PS-1 underframe. So far we have not been
able to nail down dates or lot numbers where this change took place,
however, at a certain point we simply quit looking so if the info is
available somewhere please let us know. Noted differences (besides the
dimples and roof panels) from the pre 1950 PS-1s is the use of only two
floor runners running the entire length of the floor where most of the 1950
cars had three runners running to the bolsters and two out to the ends, and
even later cars had all three out to the ends. The end ladders had two
straight runners the later cars have a belled out right runner. The end top
grab iron has three mounting points, later cars have four. The side sill
tabs have different angles and are just a bit smaller than the later cars.
There were a number of earlier style of doors used also that would require
new tooling. There are a number of other very minor details that may or may
not make a difference unless you actually see the drawings and know about
them.

Thanks again Tim.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

Ron, I spoke with a good friend of Brian Leppert tonight and here is the
latest on the Dalman two level trucks. Brian is experiencing some production
equipment problems that MAY take up to two or three mobths to overcome. Best guess
is we will see the trucks in production by spring of next year.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

I have some knowledge of his business, but even at that it is a scrape in the barrel. I've helped him move his collections at a few shows in and out of the van to and from his tables, and helped him at his table now and then. That and some normal conversation has led me to the following response to an Internet site anytime soon.

GFL. What you see at (most) shows is less than a quarter of his collection. He had more at Gaithersburg this past weekend than he had at Naperville (shorter trip=more books). It was still not a quarter of the printed shots. The only place where most of the printed shots are to be found is at the Springfield, MA show in February. BUT, that is not his entire collection either. At any given time he has thousands of negatives he needs to get printed - and due to time or money he can't (or, better put, won't - he COULD, but his business sense won't let him). He purchased at least 2 new collections this year of over 30,000 negatives. That's in addition to the well over 100K negatives he already owned and over 10K he has access to. That does not include the slides. (And bare in mind these are estimates that are more than likely on the low side). Now, as one who has scanned my photos which is less than 5K, and some slides (less than 100 of 5K) I can tell you it is a back breaking and a boring job. Not to mention one that takes some time to get right. I know we are talking low-res thumbnails here 0 but -are willing to buy a clear photo based on a fuzzy scan? I didn't think so.

You say hire a teenager. To scan over 150,000 photos. And then put up a web site and ensure that those photos are not only put on the web site but also described accurately and the descriptions match the scan (and let's not forget that one of the more endearing qualities of these photos is the sometime lack of information on them - which means that teenager is going to have to know that that locomotive is a NYC Hudson in Buffalo or a ATSF PS-2 covered hopper - likely? I think not.

He HAS a catalog of prints, incidentally. It might not be in the order or in the manner YOU want it to be in, but it suits his purpose. As for the rest, that would mean purchasing and using a computer - for someone who has never used e-mail or any of the ancillary functions needed for such an undertaking. And he's more than happy that way. Let alone using on-line transactions. And remember, he does not use credit cards now. So going to this business model is not going to happen - soon if ever.

In terms of making prints - The print making business is not what it once was. Finding a place that does 8x10 b/w is hard enough - and to fin one that produces an image to a set standard is very hard in a confined area. And getting more expensive day by day. Naperville for him is a 5 day excursion - he drives to and from there in one day. My advice here - and it isn't criticism - is that you learn more about the existing business and owner before suggesting alternatives. Because this work model simply doesn't fit with his living model as I've seen it - but I may be very wrong too.

Why not ask if Martin will do the same? Seems his business would be a sure fit for this - more so than Bob's. I suspect that the answer is the same as always.


At 02:04 PM 11/7/2005, ed_mines wrote:

You guys who spend time with Bob (Bob's photos), why don't you get
him to start cataloging the prints as he has them made up and
selling them over the internet?

There are easy solutions to returns (men copying the prints and then
sending them back) - a policy of no returns. Almost anyone else
doing business with checks waits for them to clear too.

Bob's business model is different from most of the other guys
selling prints - he has multiple prints made up by a semiautomatic
machine and keeps them in inventory. He has a lot less of an
investment in each print, but traveling is a big expense most of the
others don't have. Sure they go to a few shows now and then, but he
goes almost every weekend and frequently travels for days each way
(Naperville must have been a 6 or 8 day excursion).

I've heard Bob wants to slow down and visit fewer shows; this would
be a good opportunity to cash in without going to the shows.

After each show someone fills up the books and must order additional
prints to replenish the supply.

I'm sure Bob could pick up additional sales if he hired a teenager
to catalog those prints and keep that catalog updated on the
internet. I'm sure after a year there would be 1000 plus prints on
the list.

Even guys who see Bob a couple of times a year would check the list.
Some of these new prints could be sold out by the time the get to go
through the books or the buyer could run out of money. How many of
you missed out on something you wanted at Naperville?

Bob's out of pocket expenses would be peanuts compared to the
lengthy trips. I'm sure a high schooler and whoever picks and packs
the orders would be happy with $10/hr.

Of course unscrupulous people could copy the prints, but they can do
that now if they go to a show and buy a print off the table.

Ed









Yahoo! Groups Links

Bob Webber

--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@m...> wrote:

Arnold in the Netherlands asked: "Before I buy the Accumate Proto gearboxes,Can anyone tell me if it is possible to put the boxes underneath a
Red Caboose (X-29?) boxcar and use a Kadee # 58 in it?"

Why not buy the Kadee no. 78 instead? It's a scale-size coupler like the 58 already assembled in a close-to-scale-width box. It can be installed on the floor of the Red Caboose X29 with a small screw - the hole in the coupler box is a clearance hole for a 0-80 machine screw - but it might require a shim to get the height exact.

Because the gentleman asked about the Accumate, Andy. If he uses the Accumate PROTO:HO, he will get the benefits of a scale size coupler head WITHOUT the exposed knuckle spring, that is positioned to place the cars a scale distance apart, and will get a fully detailed draft gear that isn't artificially widened at the end. Our product can also be mounted to the floor of a Red Caboose car kit, replacing the factory box molded on the under frame. It also my need to be shimmed to the correct height. The 0-80 screw supplied should self thread into a 1,3mm hole, or if a longer screw is needed, a 1,4mm miniature metric screw that should be available in European model shops will work



Dennis Storzek

Exactly Tony! And they have to turn around and write books to
pay for their habit. No thanks! It's cheaper to buy the books! :-)

Peter,
Don't have your answer but, I've used Tichy rivets quite often. They are
available in .025, .030, .035 and I think .020. Even used the .020 as
"carriage bolts" on a Sn3 flat car deck recently, all 300 plus of them.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division

On Monday, November 7, 2005, at 10:11 AM, matthewjstrickland wrote:

Can anyone tell me when PS-1 box cars were first used? and which
railroads were the first few to use them?

Thanks for your help

MATT

Matt,
The first cars came in June 1947 for Lehigh Valley. Others receiving
PS-1s in 1947 were CGW, MEC, BM, ATSF, NH, and KCS. There's been
numerous articles and many photos published in RMJ over the past 15
years on the general subject of PS-1s, in particular during March 93 to
December 94 plus other small fillers since that time.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Does any one know how to contact Brian Leppert
Ron Christensen

--- In STMFC@..., Tony Thompson
<thompsonmarytony@s...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Then you are in luck, Jon, because someone at Naperville

was showing

off a beautiful newly tooled HO Dalman two-level delrin truck

model,

with
two styles of bolster end inserts, and properly located brake
shoes/beams.
I forget his name (!) but he used to work for Model Die

Casting and is

now setting out on his own.

That would be Brian Leppert, and the truck looked terrific.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705

www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tim O'C wrote:
. . . since I can never remember what I've already bought,

I tend to err on the side of fewer photos.)

Gosh, Tim, some people make and carry a list of the Bob's stuff they already have . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Dennis, if Bob's entire McCoid and other collections were available with
a simple mouse click, I'd go broke in no time at all... It's better that I only
see him 3 or 4 times a year and am limited to how much I can carry away
with me! (And also since I can never remember what I've already bought,
I tend to err on the side of fewer photos.)

Same principle applies to Sunshine models!

Tim O.

Ed, I would not presume to tell Bob how to run his business, but
I think his inventory problem is a lot more complex than you have
imagined -- I'm sure he has well over 100,000 images and often
sells over a thousand prints at a single show or meet. He could
create a web site etc etc but it would be a big investment and might
end up driving the prices up even higher. If you've been to Springfield,
Bob has about 20 tables and a dozen or more people working there,
and literally hundreds of binders of photos. It's a mob scene! If he
implemented careful inventory tracking it would bog down the works.

Tim O'Connor