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Re: ammonia cars
Tony Thompson
Scott Chatfield wrote:
Not so fast, Tony. From the late '50s into the early '70s a number of pressure tanks were built without themal jacketing, since it was felt the carbody was more than strong enough to resist the relatively minor change in pressure caused by ambient temperatures (compared to the starting pressure, which for anhydrous ammonia is about 10 atmospheres, if memory serves). What they didn't consider was how much the pressure would rise if the tank body was exposed to direct flame. This caused several catastrophic failures with loss of life and lots of media attention. In the late '70s a program was instituted to add jacketing and other safety features to large pressure tanks.This is all true, Scott, though off the end of this list's time period. During most or nearly all of the time covered on this list, I will stand by my statement. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: UTC Type Vs lasted how long?
Richard Hendrickson
On Nov 1, 2005, at 10:31 PM, blindog@... wrote:
How long did the frameless Type Vs last in revenue service? I'd gotten the impression they'd been retrofitted with frames or assigned to the Rio Grande's narrow gauge lines. HmmmmmThe narrow gauge Type Vs were converted from standard gauge in the 1930s and may have lasted through the 1950s with KD brakes, as they never went off-line in interchange. The standard gauge Type Vs were apparently retired in the early 1950s owing to the difficulty of converting them to AB air brakes before the 8/53 deadline for ABs in interchange. I have never found a photo of a Type V taken after ca. 1951, or of a Type V with AB brakes. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: Naperville Photos
dh30973 <76523.1060@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@n...> wrote:
Captions fixed. I was guessing they were yours since there was no name.PS any spelling corrections appreciatedIt's Propst not Probst, that's the guy who can't be voted off the Dave
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Re: Wheels
Rick <oscaletrains@...>
What's that old saying, rules were meant to be broken or something
like that? Railroads can often be arrogant enough to do whatever they happen to want to do, or what is expedient at the time, regardless of said rules. It just takes someone high enough up the totem pole to make it so sometimes. In an instance quite the opposite of the one you posted, I recall when the rebuilt NKP Berk ran through Central Illinois in the 1980s and was stranded, forced to replace "obsolete" 33" Armco wheels under her tender before proceding. I remember it because I and a co- worker replaced those wheels with 33" multi wear Griffin ones. Just wish we had had a camera handy to record it back then. --- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote: The FGE wood reefer that is such a prominent exhibit in the Greatmuseum c. 1975 in Sacramento from Tacoma Ice & Storage (WA) on the samemany years previous. It could not be handled in "interchange", but yetin Sacramento. It was further interchanged with both the Centralstate that a railroad does not have to accept on interchange certain
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Re: GN 15000-15549 Boxcars
Larry
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
A partial Jim Sands photo of GN #15400 confirms the Viking roof as well as the original National Type B trucks found on ERIE 78500-78999.
In a collection of photos taken at the recent Naperville prototype modelers
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Re: Equipment registers
Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
Garth,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The requirements of the ORER only applied to cars that were in interchange service on which either Per Diem in the case of railroad cars, or mileage on the case of private cars, was paid. So, a railroad could accept a car not in the ORER in interchange and then refuse to pay for its use. A strong incentive to make sure interchangeable cars were listed. Perhaps I was not clear in my meaning about "no errors". As I said in a later post, according to the ICC, if a tariff and the facts differed, the tariff took precedence over the facts. So, if a car was not listed, according to the ICC it did not exist, therefore a "foreign road" did not have to pay for its use while in its lines. Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Groff" <ggg9y@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Equipment registers Gregg,
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Re: Car Builder Cyclopedias
Larry Kline
Eric Hiser wrote:
I am most interested in the 1910 through 1930 time frame. The 1922 Car Builder Cyclopedia is available on CD from Rail Driver at: http://www.raildriver.com/rdcyclopedias/22carbuild.php I have the CD and am happy with it. There are links in the table of contents and index that facilitate navigation through the Cyc. (The 1922 Cyc on CD is also listed on the nice web site that Bob Webber posted http://www.ironhorse129.com/rollingstock/builders/bibliog-bldrs.htm ) Larry Kline Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Equipment registers
Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
Gregg,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks for your information on the mechanics of the ORERs. But what clout did the Commission have over prompt reporting of changes? By that I mean, was there any penalty if railroad managers simply failed to report equipment changes during the required submission period? Would another railroad reject interchange of such new cars that were not yet reported? You say that there could be NO errors. That works well in theory, but as many students of railroad history could tell you, there are many examples of whole classes of cars missing from the ORERs which have been recorded in published photos. Example: D&RGW leased a whole mess of 40' PS-1s lettered in their own road name (possibly beyond the scope of this group, sorry), but which supposedly were not recorded in the ORERs. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff Gregg Mahlkov wrote:
Allen, Garth, and list,
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Re: Wheels
Guy Wilber
Pat writes:
<< On January 1, 1952, cast iron single-plate nonbracketed (without ribs) wheels were prohibited from interchange. >> The prohibition was extended to January 1, 1953 as of July of 1951. I haven't had a chance to dig further, but I suspect there may be even further extensions. Once I tally the entire story I will report back. This is a classic case of the AAR Interchange Rules having been extended without subsequent follow up on the author(s)' part. Regards, Guy Wilber Earthquake Faults, Nevada
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Re: GATX Type X cars?
Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On Nov 2, 2005, at 1:22 AM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
GATX 3176 is an ARA III (as stencilled.) It has KC brakes (one piece.) The running boards attach to the bolsters and some relatively light framing diagonally up from the center sill. This underframe is common for many GATX tank cars built from the 20's on. The Athearn tank car frame is a (very) crude rendition of this underframe.The GATX car shown is not a Type 30 (which the Athearn crudely represents). It is one of the WWI era GATC products. Note the radial courses with rivets running around the circumference of the tank. Also note the double sill steps common on GATC cars. While it is hard to tell, it looks like it was built in June 1919, which would jibe with the details of the tank. These cars were offered in brass by Overland in HO. Regards, Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912
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Re: Wheels
Guy Wilber
oscaletrains@... writes:
<< Ok...1928 AAR Wheel and Axle Manual>> 1928 ARA Wheel and Axle Manual <<I'd still like to get ahold of a Section G manual to see if it sheds any light on it. >> An early Section G from the ARA/AAR Manual might have some information though most of the information within subsequent volumes is little more than that contained within the Wheel and Axle Manual. The Manual is a loose leaf book of nearly 1200 pages (depending on era) and most sections were edited down throughout time. The most comprehensive information on early wheel specs was published by the ARA's Wheel and Axle Committee (1928). There are nearly two hundred pages of information and specifications (within) from which the 1928 Wheel and Axle Manual was formulated. The Wheel and Axle Manual was modified throughout its history by use of supplements. It was never completely revamped and published until the latter part of the 1950s, I believe 1958, by which time cast iron wheels were nearly a non factor as applied to freight equipment. Regards, Guy Wilber Earthquake Faults, Nevada
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Re: Wheels
Guy Wilber
Pat writes:
<<On January 1, 1952, cast iron single-plate nonbracketed (without ribs) wheels were prohibited from interchange.>> This rule prohibited (in interchange) the use of 700 and 750 lb. single plate, non-bracketed cast iron wheels cast on and after January 1, 1938. Prior to that date, 600 and 750 lb. single plate, non-backeted, cast iron wheels cast before January 1, 1938 were prohibited (in interchange) effective January 1, 1950. Regards, Guy Wilber Earthquake Faults, Nevada
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UTC Type Vs lasted how long?
D. Scott Chatfield
http://216.94.16.48/people/index_choice.cfm?id=129&photoid=400748160
> The UTLX car looks like a frameless Van Dyke Class V car. How long did the frameless Type Vs last in revenue service? I'd gotten the impression they'd been retrofitted with frames or assigned to the Rio Grande's narrow gauge lines. Hmmmmm Scott C
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Re: GATX Type X cars?
Sorry, Rob. Yes, UTLX 55136 is a V car. Note the lack of a center sill under the tank. Its brakes may well be KD attached to the tank. The running boards are also attached to the tank. GATX 3176 is an ARA III (as stencilled.) It has KC brakes (one piece.) The running boards attach to the bolsters and some relatively light framing diagonally up from the center sill. This underframe is common for many GATX tank cars built from the 20's on. The Athearn tank car frame is a (very) crude rendition of this underframe.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Nice photos! Thanks for pointing them out. Regards, Steve Hile
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:35 PM Subject: [STMFC] GATX Type X cars? This is a link to a very nice on line photo showing the end of GATX 3176 and part of the side of UTLX 55136. http://216.94.16.48/people/index_choice.cfm?id=129&photoid=400748160 . The photo was taken along the Central Vermont in the Second World War. The GATX car looks - to my uneducated eyes, like a UTL Type X car. Is that a misinformed statement? The GATX car still has a KD brake. My guess from attempting to read the stencil is that its leased to Proctor & Gamble. Its a radial course tank of 8043 gallons. The UTLX car looks like a frameless Van Dyke Class V car. The UTLX car is one of the three radial course variety, like the Precision Scale kit. Both cars are also shown in another different photo at http://216.94.16.48/people/index_choice.cfm?id=129&photoid=-1011884325. Rob Kirkham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "STMFC" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: ammonia cars
D. Scott Chatfield
TT wrote:
Even for cargoes not loaded under great pressure, the ICC rules Not so fast, Tony. From the late '50s into the early '70s a number of pressure tanks were built without themal jacketing, since it was felt the carbody was more than strong enough to resist the relatively minor change in pressure caused by ambient temperatures (compared to the starting pressure, which for anhydrous ammonia is about 10 atmospheres, if memory serves). What they didn't consider was how much the pressure would rise if the tank body was exposed to direct flame. This caused several catastrophic failures with loss of life and lots of media attention. In the late '70s a program was instituted to add jacketing and other safety features to large pressure tanks. The the poster was talking about the late '50s, it could be some of those non-jacketed pressure tanks that he saw loaded. I don't recall any cases of pressure tanks loaded with anhydrous ammonia failing from flame impingement, but since the same cars are used to haul propane, they all had to be refitted. Scott C
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GATX Type X cars?
Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
This is a link to a very nice on line photo showing the end of GATX 3176 and part of the side of UTLX 55136. http://216.94.16.48/people/index_choice.cfm?id=129&photoid=400748160 . The photo was taken along the Central Vermont in the Second World War.
The GATX car looks - to my uneducated eyes, like a UTL Type X car. Is that a misinformed statement? The GATX car still has a KD brake. My guess from attempting to read the stencil is that its leased to Proctor & Gamble. Its a radial course tank of 8043 gallons. The UTLX car looks like a frameless Van Dyke Class V car. The UTLX car is one of the three radial course variety, like the Precision Scale kit. Both cars are also shown in another different photo at http://216.94.16.48/people/index_choice.cfm?id=129&photoid=-1011884325. Rob Kirkham
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Re: 1943 AAR loading rules for open top equipment
Richard Hendrickson
On Oct 26, 2005, at 8:32 AM, twinstarcars wrote:
Help! New guy to the list wondering how to get a copy of this.Ross, I may have an extra copy or two, but I won't know until mid-November when I come back from a trip out of the country. If so, I'll let you know at that time. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: GN 15000-15549 - Viking Roof
bnpmodeler <bnchmark@...>
And Ron;
Thanks to you too; I ought to have known that the Viking roof was a clue as to the ex-Erie heritage. I believe you are quite correct that the DL & W did not have any cars with such a roof. Jim Harr --- In STMFC@..., "dphobbies" <dphobbies@e...> wrote: <lrice@o...> wrote:fitIf so, from where might I find Viking corrugated roofs that will the RedtheCaboose HO scale kit RC-8500?Larry RiceI can probably answer the Viking Roof part. We(Des Plaines Hobbies) Red Caboose (formerly IMWX) AAR boxcar.seperate ends. Your choice.EL with Viking roofs, they were probably ex Erie cars as I am notaware of DL&W having any Viking roof cars. It was my understanding(perhaps wrong)that the surviving Erie Viking roofed cars were reroofed.
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Re: Railshops Carbon Black Hopper
Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
This looks like the same car that Funaro and Camerlengo has produced for
years. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon
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Re: GN 15000-15549 Boxcars
bnpmodeler <bnchmark@...>
Larry;
Thanks so much! I suspected that they may have been single-door cars originally, but did not get as deep into the research that you obviously did. I am in your debt, and will say thanks again. Much appreciated. Jim Harr --- In STMFC@..., Lorraine Kirsch & Larry Rice <lrice@o...> wrote: 1963 as rebuilt double door cars via A. A. Morrison.
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