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Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Nelson Moyer
I attached Gene Green’s paper to my last email to the resinfreight car builders io Group, so you can get it there or search the web for “Freight Car Underbody Detail.pdf”. Search “Modeling AB Brakes on Freight Cars.pdf” for Ted’s paper, which also covers KC brakes.
These papers should be in the files of the RealSTMC, resinfreightcarbuilders, plasticfreightcarbuilders, and proto-layouts io groups. If they aren’t, somebody needs to upload them.
As I said before, I leave transverse mounted air reservoirs to modelers of the PRR, ATSF, and perhaps other roads.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 7:31 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Santa Fe also had many cars with perpendicular air reservoirs.
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of irv_thomae
Nelson, |
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Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Steve SANDIFER
Santa Fe also had many cars with perpendicular air reservoirs.
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of irv_thomae
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 12:28 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Nelson, |
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Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)
Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
Thank you, an interesting explaination. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> Date: 5/24/21 2:27 PM (GMT-05:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s) On the Monon gondola. That end is interesting. I would think that a pattern like that for the press die would be expensive to make. And then on a Composite car too?No more expensive than any of the Dreadnaught variations that came after. I suspect this was a Haskell & Barker proprietary design... All three orders of cars on which it was used were built by H&B, and when I was organizing H&B drawings at the Pullman Library, there were more detailed drawings of the pressing than was normal. I also suspect that the main design intent was patent avoidance. The Murphy patent claimed "tapered ribs" and had been upheld in court, thus driving both Van Dorn and Hutchins out of the car end business. This end has ribs, but they can hardly be said to be tapered. Dennis Storzek |
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Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)
Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:45 AM, Jeffrey Gray wrote:
On the Monon gondola. That end is interesting. I would think that a pattern like that for the press die would be expensive to make. And then on a Composite car too?No more expensive than any of the Dreadnaught variations that came after. I suspect this was a Haskell & Barker proprietary design... All three orders of cars on which it was used were built by H&B, and when I was organizing H&B drawings at the Pullman Library, there were more detailed drawings of the pressing than was normal. I also suspect that the main design intent was patent avoidance. The Murphy patent claimed "tapered ribs" and had been upheld in court, thus driving both Van Dorn and Hutchins out of the car end business. This end has ribs, but they can hardly be said to be tapered. Dennis Storzek |
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Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Jeff and Friends, Here is a similar end on a Sierra MW car. Note the difference though; this one does not spiral but instead has concentric ovals. I've also included a view of the very interesting brake wheel. Sorry this can't be sharper. Yours Aye, Garth Groff 🦆 On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 11:45 AM Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...> wrote:
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Photo: Mineral Range RR Flatcar 69 (Circa 1900)
Photo: Mineral Range RR Flatcar 69 (Circa 1900) Photo from Michigan Technological University: Only fair quality. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondola 153 (Undated)
Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondola 153 (Undated) Photo from Michigan Technological University: Load of “mass copper”, an industry term for native copper occurring in large masses. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondolas (1925)
Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondolas (1925) Photo from Michigan Technological University: Union Coal dock. Fair quality photo. Wiki info on the Mineral Range Railroad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Trains/ICC_valuations/Mineral_Range_Railroad Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
irv_thomae
Nelson,
Thanks for a very clear explanation! You've mentioned Ted Culotta's "treatise on freight car brakes" and Gene Greene's "paper on freight car brakes." Can you remind us where to find them on line? (And then there are the railroads that mounted air reservoirs with their long axis perpendicular to the car centerline, such as CN and the T&P. Are there any consistent rules that apply to them?) Thanks! |
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Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)
Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
On the Monon gondola. That end is interesting. I would think that a pattern like that for the press die would be expensive to make. And then on a Composite car too? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...> Date: 5/22/21 11:05 AM (GMT-05:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s) Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s) Photo from the Indiana Historical Society: https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/p16797coll35/id/1740/rec/48 Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge. While the main subject of this photo is the delivery of ice to a Monon train, notice the gondola with a spiral end discussed here before and a flat car with a possible granite or other stone load. Another example of the spiral end: http://monon.org/bygone_site/mines/CIL33149LittleBettyLinton-0001.jpg Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Re: Linde "Boxcar"
Hi Bob and others. Do you know if the photographer Jim Parker is still alive? OR where might his collection of photographs be? Sincerely, Rich Yoder
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:33 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Linde "Boxcar"
And here are the SERX cars. |
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Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Luckily, the Intermountain PFE brake details are so poorly cemented on, that I can easily pop them off and add brass wire for the correct arrangement.
-- John |
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Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Nelson Moyer
Athearn isn’t the only victim of misreading engineering drawings. I’ve encountered current models from two companies who shall remain nameless with erroneous underbody brake diagrams in their instructions. The best way to check instructions is to look at original engineering drawings, but lacking that, look at photo graphs of both sides of the car under construction whenever possible. I’ve adopted the dictum, trust but verify. Then there is the Intermountain PFE reefer brake disaster……….
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of John Sykes III via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 9:15 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Also, but not necessarily in your case, many builder diagrams show the brake system (and other underbody details) as though you are looking down, through the floor of the freight car, not looking up. That is how all the early Athearn blue-box
kits ended up with their brake systems on the wrong side of the underframe.
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Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Also, but not necessarily in your case, many builder diagrams show the brake system (and other underbody details) as though you are looking down, through the floor of the freight car, not looking up. That is how all the early Athearn blue-box kits ended up with their brake systems on the wrong side of the underframe.
-- John |
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Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question
Nelson Moyer
Since posting my AB air reservoir question, I've reread Gene Green's paper on freight car brakes. A study of the photos and diagrams in this paper suggest that the AB air reservoir has an up and down side, with the 'fat' side hanging down from the floor mounts, and it is usually mounted on the opposite side of the the center sill from the brake cylinder with two lugs facing the B end (direction to which the brake cylinder points).
Applying that convention, when the air reservoir is mounted on the opposite side of the center sill from the brake cylinder, two lugs face the B end. When the air reservoir is mounted on the same side of the center sill as the brake cylinder, one lug faces the B end. Cars converted from KC to AB brakes frequently have the AB air reservoir on the same side of the center sill as the brake cylinder hence the FGE car has one lug facing the B end. I think that pretty well sums up the answer to my initial question. |
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Re: AE Staley and Wabash RR Photos 1930s-1950s
Chris Barkan
BTW, the AE Staley building still stands in Decatur, although their corporate headquarters moved to Chicago a few years ago to the consternation of the Decatur town fathers.
-- Chris Barkan Champaign, IL |
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Re: Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907)
Schuyler Larrabee
Thanks, Steve.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 3:23 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907)
The series Erie 52000-52999 was built by Standard Steel Car Company in 1904.
Keith Retterer has a builder’s photo of 52000 in his collection of SSC builder’s photo.
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
List:
I was unaware of a 52000 series gon for the ERIE prior to this photo. Looking at my 1916 and 1920 ORERs I find that this was one a class of (presumably) 1000 cars 52000-52999. IL 40’ IW 9’-5 5/8” IH 4’-2” Length OA 41’Height OA 7’-5” 1706 Cu Ft capy 100,000 lb.
In 1916 there were 906 cars left in the series; in 1920, 994.
Class HT, hopper bottoms as Bob noted.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907) Photo from the Indiana Historical Society: https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/DC002/id/189/rec/31 Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge. Description: “Open-topped freight cars loaded with wood at Talge Mahogany Co., with railroad tracks in the foreground. Stacks of wood are in the background.” Gondola appears to have hopper doors. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Photo: PRR Work Train (1937)
Photo: PRR Work Train (1937) Photo from the Indiana Historical Society: https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/dc012/id/7402/rec/4 Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge. Fair quality photo. Bruce Smith commented: “This is indeed a PRR MOW train. The cars are former XL boxcars converted to MOW service. This looks to be a combination of two unit trains for living quarters. This would have typically housed a larger gang working on a major project. From left to the right the cars appear to be: Riding car Riding car Sleeping car Commissary car (?) Kitchen/dining Kitchen/dining Of course, these are available from Westerfield in HO.” Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Photo: PRR Flat Car 126939 (1935)
Photo: PRR Flat Car 126939 (1935) Photo from the Indiana Historical Society: https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/p16797coll70/id/19/rec/1 Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge. Only fair quality. Description: “A piece of Hetherington & Berner equipment is loaded onto a railroad flatcar to be shipped from Indianapolis where it was manufactured. Hetherington & Berner, Inc. was the first builder of asphalt mixing equipment in the United States. The company was established in 1867 by Benjamin Franklin Hetherington and Frederick Berner in Indianapolis. It ceased operations in the late 1970s.” Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Photo: PRR Gondolas (1931)
Photo: PRR Gondolas (1931) Photo from the Indiana Historical Society: https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/P0129/id/1238/rec/25 Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge. Only fair quality. Description: Coal for the Bledsoe Coal Company is in an open-top freight car. Men are standing near it. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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