Re: Left and right sides of a car...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

Mike Brock wrote:
And, of course, I knew all that...<g>. I'm just glad nobody said that
as you
face the B end of the car [ The brake wheel end ], that the side to
your
left is the port side and the side to your right is the starboard side.
Richard H. replied:
That's true, Mike, but only when the freight car is on a car ferry.
Or, of course, if it's a naval ammunition car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Left and right sides of a car...

Mike Brock <brockm@...>

Tony Thompson writes:

while.....
Larry Jackman wrote:
You stand and face the B end of the car. The side to your right is
the Right side and to your left is the left side.

You can see why people get confused....<g>
Larry's and my statement sure look alike to me. But there is a
potential problem with Larry's: you have to stand AT the B end, facing
the B end. Otherwise I guess you could "stand and face the B end" from
the side.
It is interesting that there are those that live in the real world and mathematicians who often live in unworldly worlds. Having attained a degree in mathematics about 45 yrs ago...and never really using any of it during my 33.5 [ note the 0.5 ] yrs with NASA...I can say that I have been in the real world most of the time since...although Mike Rose did comment recently that he often has no idea what I'm talking about. The point is, given Larry's real world statement...an unworldly mathematician might note that you could "face" the "B" end from quite a few different positions...infinite according to Zeno. Certainly, though, for our discussion, you could face the "B" end AND the "A" end at the same time from at least 2 different positions standing on the track...assuming that one position is to the right of the car when viewed from 90ï¿½ to the car's side and in the same plane and the other is to the left of the car when viewed from the same location. See why Mike Rose said that?

Mike Brock...it must be late...

Re: Left and right sides of a car...

Richard Hendrickson

On Oct 3, 2005, at 8:46 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

And, of course, I knew all that...<g>. I'm just glad nobody said that as you
face the B end of the car [ The brake wheel end ], that the side to your
left is the port side and the side to your right is the starboard side.
That's true, Mike, but only when the freight car is on a car ferry.

Richard Hendrickson

Re: Left and right sides of a car...

Mike Brock <brockm@...>

Jack Burgess says:

Tony Thompson wrote:

As with any freight car, Mike, stand at the B end and look
toward the car. The left side is on your left.

while.....

Larry Jackman wrote:

You stand and face the B end of the car. The side to your right is
the Right side and to your left is the left side.

You can see why people get confused....<g>
And, of course, I knew all that...<g>. I'm just glad nobody said that as you face the B end of the car [ The brake wheel end ], that the side to your left is the port side and the side to your right is the starboard side.

Mike Brock

Richard Hendrickson

For the benefit of some members perhaps not as enlightened as me <g>...how
does one determine the right side from the left?

Mike Brock
Mike, I'm shocked...shocked, I tell you...that you don't know this very basic freight car fact.

On cars of any type, the left and right sides are those on the left and right when looking at the B (brake wheel) end.

Richard Hendrickson

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

Richard Townsend wrote:
The obvious next question is which end is the B end. To identify the B end, you stand facing the left side of the car. The B end will be on your right.
Well, an alternative is to guess A vs. B. You have a 50% chance of being correct, which is better than most things in life. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Richard Townsend

The obvious next question is which end is the B end. To identify the B end, you stand facing the left side of the car. The B end will be on your right.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

ljack70117@... wrote:

You stand and face the B end of the car. The side to your right is ï¿½
the Right side and to your left is the left side. Also the journals ï¿½
number from the B end of the car R1 R2 R3 R4 and L1 L2 L3 L4 on a 4 ï¿½
axle car. If you have more axles you add more numbers
On Oct 3, 2005, at 8:35 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Richard Hendrickson writes:

Armand, whether there were ladders on both sides of tank cars ï¿½
depended,
of course, on whether there were dome walkways or platforms on both
sides, as there was no point in having a ladder that didn't go
anywhere.
For the benefit of some members perhaps not as enlightened as me ï¿½
<g>...how
does one determine the right side from the left?

Mike Brock

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Re: Left and right sides of a car...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

Jack Burgess wrote:
Tony Thompson wrote:
As with any freight car, Mike, stand at the B end and look
toward the car. The left side is on your left.

while.....
Larry Jackman wrote:
You stand and face the B end of the car. The side to your right is
the Right side and to your left is the left side.

You can see why people get confused....<g>
Larry's and my statement sure look alike to me. But there is a potential problem with Larry's: you have to stand AT the B end, facing the B end. Otherwise I guess you could "stand and face the B end" from the side.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Covered Hoppers/Grain

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

Jim Brewer wrote:
Is it true that covered hoppers were not used to haul grain prior to 1960? I realize that grain was hauled in boxcars for many years, but thought the larger capacity covered hoppers developed in the 50's were intened, at least in part, to haul grain.
I think the 1960 date is a trifle late, but not much. Practically all those hundreds of 2000-cubic-foot cars built through the 50s were for cement and comparable loads. At the end of the 50s true grain cars did begin to appear, but 1960 is not, to my mind, very late. Perhaps someone has more specifics.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Left and right sides of a car...

Jack Burgess <jack@...>

Tony Thompson wrote:

As with any freight car, Mike, stand at the B end and look
toward the car. The left side is on your left.

while.....

Larry Jackman wrote:

You stand and face the B end of the car. The side to your right is
the Right side and to your left is the left side.

You can see why people get confused....<g>

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

ljack70117@...

You stand and face the B end of the car. The side to your right is the Right side and to your left is the left side. Also the journals number from the B end of the car R1 R2 R3 R4 and L1 L2 L3 L4 on a 4 axle car. If you have more axles you add more numbers
On Oct 3, 2005, at 8:35 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Richard Hendrickson writes:

Armand, whether there were ladders on both sides of tank cars depended,
of course, on whether there were dome walkways or platforms on both
sides, as there was no point in having a ladder that didn't go
anywhere.
Tell that to that lady in San Jose who built that crazy house with doors
that opened to a solid wall, stairs to nowhere and hidden rooms. Of
course...she did live in California.

Tank car builders provided one walkway and one ladder as

standard (almost always on the left side). Right side walkways and
For the benefit of some members perhaps not as enlightened as me <g>...how
does one determine the right side from the left?

Mike Brock

~-->
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------
~->

Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few

Tim O'Connor

For the benefit of some members perhaps not as enlightened as me <g>...how
does one determine the right side from the left?
Mike Brock
Mike,

When you stand and face the brake wheel (end of the car), the side
to your left is the left side, and other side is the right side. If
a car has a brake wheel on the side, on or both ends, then there are
usually stencils designating the A-end and B-end. This is important
in orienting a car for unloading, for example. (Rarely modeled -- a
car that must be wyed or turned on a table, to orient it correctly.)

Tim O'Connor

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

Mike Brock wrote:
For the benefit of some members perhaps not as enlightened as me <g>...how
does one determine the right side from the left?
As with any freight car, Mike, stand at the B end and look toward the car. The left side is on your left.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Covered Hoppers/Grain

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>

In one of the articles, "Freight Equipment and Operations" by Robert S. McGonigal, there is a statement, on page 43 to the effect that covered hoppers weren't adopted for grain hauling until the 1960s.

Is it true that covered hoppers were not used to haul grain prior to 1960? I realize that grain was hauled in boxcars for many years, but thought the larger capacity covered hoppers developed in the 50's were intened, at least in part, to haul grain.

Thanks.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

Re: ARA 1934 Open Loads Publication

Richard Hendrickson

Richard Hendrickson

Mike Brock <brockm@...>

Richard Hendrickson writes:

Armand, whether there were ladders on both sides of tank cars depended,
of course, on whether there were dome walkways or platforms on both
sides, as there was no point in having a ladder that didn't go
anywhere.
Tell that to that lady in San Jose who built that crazy house with doors that opened to a solid wall, stairs to nowhere and hidden rooms. Of course...she did live in California.

Tank car builders provided one walkway and one ladder as
standard (almost always on the left side). Right side walkways and
For the benefit of some members perhaps not as enlightened as me <g>...how does one determine the right side from the left?

Mike Brock

Re: NKP Car Movements

Bill Darnaby

Greg,

I think that you are correct. I have seen notation on some of the other sheets that indicated that the waybill originated elsewhere. For example, I have seen "xCyclone, Ind"...an elevator on the Monon sending raw beans to Swift...and "CIL waybill" under the car number.

Bill Darnaby

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NKP Car Movements

Bill and list,

I can't help but wonder if the reason for the reference to the inbound
origin of the beans is for transit billing. It was quite common in the steam
era for railroads to permit "milling in transit", where the total freight
paid was for a single shipment from origin to destination rather than a
combination of origin to milling point and milling point to destination.

The note told the NKP agent to match the shipment with an inbound waybill
and prepare a transit waybill outbound referring that inbound waybill.

I'm sure Swift made use of this provision in the tariffs.

Gregg Mahlkov

Richard Hendrickson

On Oct 3, 2005, at 12:04 PM, armand wrote:

Ladders,I have seen photos of tank cars with ladders on only one
one car builder?.How can one be sure to be correct by mounting the ladder
on only one side?Armand Premo
Armand, whether there were ladders on both sides of tank cars depended, of course, on whether there were dome walkways or platforms on both sides, as there was no point in having a ladder that didn't go anywhere. Tank car builders provided one walkway and one ladder as standard (almost always on the left side). Right side walkways and ladders were optional; some buyers specified them, others not. By the 1930s, most tank cars had them on both sides, but the SP ordered 8K gal. oil cars from GATC as late as 1942 that had walkways and ladders on one side only. Of course, cars with full platforms and railings around the dome, as on many ICC-105 high pressure cars (and some other tank cars as well) had ladders on both sides.

So the short answer is that, for ARA III and IV or ICC 103/104 tank casrs, there's no way to know for sure unless you have (a) a photo showing the side of the car that had no platform/ladder, or (b) photos of both sides of the car. If you have a photo of the right side and it has a platform and ladder, then it's highly likely (but not entirely certain) that there was a platform/ladder on the left side as well.

Richard Hendrickson

Re: NKP Car Movements

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>

Bill and list,

I can't help but wonder if the reason for the reference to the inbound origin of the beans is for transit billing. It was quite common in the steam era for railroads to permit "milling in transit", where the total freight paid was for a single shipment from origin to destination rather than a combination of origin to milling point and milling point to destination.

The note told the NKP agent to match the shipment with an inbound waybill and prepare a transit waybill outbound referring that inbound waybill.

I'm sure Swift made use of this provision in the tariffs.

Gregg Mahlkov

Mea culpa

Andy Carlson

Group,
I was not paying attention in my reply to Tim
O'Connor. My apologies.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

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