Date   

Re: Fw: C&EI 40' 1937 AAR boxcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson asked:
"I spent a few hours organizing my kits in the basement tonight to
beat the 90 deg heat. I found a few I had forgotten about in the
process, including an Innovative Model Works 1937 AAR 40' boxcar
decorated for the C&EI with a Viking roof. <snip> Also any detail
changes, trucks, running board, brake step, etc, required to the kit
for a more accurate car?"

Following information is from the 1937 AAR Boxcar summary at
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html

C&EI 64000-64499: Wood running board; Ajax handbrake (64000-64249),
Klasing handbrake (64250-64499); Metal brake step, type not specified
(probably steel plate); Youngstown doors with Camel fixtures (64000-
64399), CRECo doors with CRECo fixtures (64400-64499), Black doors.

A photo of one of these cars is in the June 1994 issue of Railmodel
Journal.


Ben Hom


Re: And another one

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Pierre,

I have the 10.8 kit. Give me a snail mail address and I can copy and send to you.

Jim Brewer
jfbrewer@...
www.pocahontasmodels.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "pierreoliver2003" <pierre.oliver@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:59 AM
Subject: [STMFC] And another one


Found another Sunshine kit missing instructions,
#10.8, Pennsy X-31F Jeep/Auto Car Turtleback roof.
Again my thanks,
Pierre Oliver






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And another one

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Found another Sunshine kit missing instructions,
#10.8, Pennsy X-31F Jeep/Auto Car Turtleback roof.
Again my thanks,
Pierre Oliver


Sunshine instructions

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Greetings all,
Does anyone have the instructions for Sunshine Models #34.9, that they
could/would photocopy and mail to me? A customer aquired this kit from
an estate and the instructions and data sheet are missing.
Contact me off list please.
Many thanks.
Pierre Oliver


Re: ACF tank car book - question

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Rob,

Someone had to start somewhere, and I used what was on hand. Claim no specialized knowledge of Can. RR's, and leave it there. Thanks for the website, gives me one more resource to search when it's needed.

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:10 AM
Subject: [STMFC] ACF tank car book - question


Thanks for looking into this Fred. Ian Cranstone's "Canadian Freight Cars" site is an excellent starting point for this work, as he lists railway owned and non-railway owners by reporting mark, with car numbers an type, builder info, etc. His stats are based on the ORERs. I am trying to go a little further down the same path, trying to figure out some of the builders/build dates of cars Ian has not managed to identify yet. As usual with tank cars, transfer of ownership makes this a sometimes tricky task.

Rob Kirkham
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred in Vt.
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ACF tank car book - question


Rob,

This is what I found in the ORER / 1953

NOTE > all gallon figures are Imperial Gallons

DSLX Can. & Dominion Sugar 4---8000 50t
1---10,200 50t

CLOX Can. Linseed Oil Mills 2---8000 30t

HACX Can. Packers 3---8028 50t
1---8295 50t

CSTX Can. Starch 1---5000 30t
3---7000 50t
5---8000 50t

CAEX Can. Arsenals 1---6797 50t
1---6799 50t
1---6707 50t

CBX Can. Breweries 2---8000 50t

CILX Can. Industries Ltd # Class
45 ARA V
19 ICC105
8 ICC105A500W
18 ICC103A
8 ICC103B
1 ICC103CW
25 ICC105A300
2 ICC106A500
9 AAR201A335W

None listed for CN or CP

Not that sure of tank cars & metric system; hopr these give you a start.

Fred Freitas











----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:54 AM
Subject: [STMFC] ACF tank car book - question


Ed, I see you were able to provide some roster information to answer (at least in part) Brian Chapman's question. So I am wondering, do you have access to other roster information that is accessible? If so, in what way is it accessible? For what years? I'm thinking about sales to Canadian customers: tracking that would assist us tremendously. But I expect I am asking for something that really is impossible/impracticable. I have no desire to burden you with my research needs, so no sweat if it isn't to be had. Still, no harm in asking....

Rob Kirkham





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ACF tank car book - question

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks for looking into this Fred. Ian Cranstone's "Canadian Freight Cars" site is an excellent starting point for this work, as he lists railway owned and non-railway owners by reporting mark, with car numbers an type, builder info, etc. His stats are based on the ORERs. I am trying to go a little further down the same path, trying to figure out some of the builders/build dates of cars Ian has not managed to identify yet. As usual with tank cars, transfer of ownership makes this a sometimes tricky task.

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: Fred in Vt.
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ACF tank car book - question


Rob,

This is what I found in the ORER / 1953

NOTE > all gallon figures are Imperial Gallons

DSLX Can. & Dominion Sugar 4---8000 50t
1---10,200 50t

CLOX Can. Linseed Oil Mills 2---8000 30t

HACX Can. Packers 3---8028 50t
1---8295 50t

CSTX Can. Starch 1---5000 30t
3---7000 50t
5---8000 50t

CAEX Can. Arsenals 1---6797 50t
1---6799 50t
1---6707 50t

CBX Can. Breweries 2---8000 50t

CILX Can. Industries Ltd # Class
45 ARA V
19 ICC105
8 ICC105A500W
18 ICC103A
8 ICC103B
1 ICC103CW
25 ICC105A300
2 ICC106A500
9 AAR201A335W

None listed for CN or CP

Not that sure of tank cars & metric system; hopr these give you a start.

Fred Freitas











----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:54 AM
Subject: [STMFC] ACF tank car book - question


Ed, I see you were able to provide some roster information to answer (at least in part) Brian Chapman's question. So I am wondering, do you have access to other roster information that is accessible? If so, in what way is it accessible? For what years? I'm thinking about sales to Canadian customers: tracking that would assist us tremendously. But I expect I am asking for something that really is impossible/impracticable. I have no desire to burden you with my research needs, so no sweat if it isn't to be had. Still, no harm in asking....

Rob Kirkham





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Fw: C&EI 40' 1937 AAR boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I sent this last night but it never made it to the list for some reason?

I spent a few hours organizing my kits in the basement tonight to beat the
90 deg heat. I found a few I had forgotten about in the process, including
an Innovative Model Works 1937 AAR 40' boxcar decorated for the C&EI with a
Viking roof. I recall purchasing the kit second hand but know it came from
Des Plaines Hobbies in 1998. It is decorated in the as-built paint scheme
with narrow C&EI to the left of the door, and black doors. How long did
this paint scheme last on the C&EI? I model 1957. Also any detail changes,
trucks, running board, brake step, etc, required to the kit for a more
accurate car? Thanks.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: magnification etc. was Soo Line SS boxcar

Schuyler Larrabee
 

As with most tools, the user will have to experiment, and find the one that fits their needs best.
I have an Optivisor, and it's good for Real Close Work, but it's a bear when doing a lot of
soldering, because of the heat that gets trapped under the visor. I have a Mageyes too, which is
lighter and easier to have on for an evening. There is a salutory effect WRT light. It's also a
longer focal length, so when working with bigger chunks of models, it's easier to swing things
around.

Neither of these exactly breaks the bank, so get them both. You will find each has its
applications.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Jack Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:57 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] magnification etc. was Soo Line SS boxcar

An Optivisor is on my shopping
list (along with a bunch of books and several models). I hear that
the ones without a solid visor - so that overhead light can shine
through - are the way to go because the added light helps with fine
modelling.
The focal length of the 5 power Optivisor is about 6" while
the visor only sticks out about 2". Therefore, the visor
isn't a factor in preventing light from shining onto the
model. Although I've never used the MagEyes, I've used an
Optivisor for years and years and would argue that it may be
preferable to the MagEyes since the lens is closer to your
eyes and therefore the focus point is much closer to you.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com





Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: ACF tank car book - question

Brian Termunde
 

In a message dated 6/28/2005 5:26:30 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
cornbeltroute@... writes:

Anyway, no offense was intended.

Brian (Brain, Bryon) Chapman (Chatman, Chapmen, Chatham)



With a last name like mine, I see so many misspellings and mispronunciations
that I just shrug it off. I have other things to worry about (BTW, it's Ter
Monday <G>)

Take Care!

Brian (or Bryan, Byron or Brien) R. Termunde (Termundi, Tremundi, or Termite
-- ok, the last one I take offense to! <VBG>)
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


good boxcar photo

birdbiz2003 <birdbiz2003@...>
 

I found in a magazine that the New Hampshire Historical Society has a
photo/postcard from 1925-1950 era numbered F4208 that shows Grand
Trunk Boxcar # 14782 being loaded with stone at the Swensons' granite
works of West Concord NH. The door on the car is open and blocks of
stone on the floor are visible . stone is only stacked one block high
in the car. This is a good photo for anyone wanting to put a boxcar
carying stone for a building project or for art supplies. Stone blocks
were used everywhere in the steam era.

Sincerely,

Tyler Turpin


More on pipe

Tom Palmer
 

Gents,
Since I design drilling tools for a living the subject of API drill pipe loads should be touched upon. API drill pipe is of more specialized character in that it precut with a pin/box configuration (male/female). They are of a very controled length usually 30 foot sections and are within fractions of each other. This is due to the fact that as drill strings are assembled during drilling they count the sections as a tally to gage drilling depth. Even today with all the fancy gizmos these people ask me to cram into a drill collar today they still tally by joint length as a check.
So in our modeling era for those of us in the oil producing regions a 40 foot car is appropriate with a uniform 30 foot length pipe load. There would be a metal thread protector on the pin end or a banded wooden wrap and a plug in the other. They would be an oily color due the the rust inhibitor. Standard sizes during our era coverage would be from 4 to 9 inches in diameter. These would also be of the thick wall vartiety to withstand the torque and weight being put on the drill string as you are driving that piece of spaghetti in the ground.
For accurate loading of all types of pipe I recommend finding a AAR Loading of Commodities on Open Top Cars. It covers loading of all types of pipe plus other items with load retaining details.
Best regards,
Tom Palmer


Tom Palmer
remlapmot@...
EarthLink Revolves Around You.


Re: The Rules

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Betz wrote:
"I've looked at a lot of pics of trains and although you do see a
fair number of East Coast freight cars they do not seem to be
represented in the kinds of percentages I've heard quoted ... one of
which has that has been quoted many times is "Forty percent of your
freight car fleet should be PRR/NYC." I can't even say my studies
have shown even that number for 'non-West Coast RRs'. It seems to
me that the percentages seem more in the 40-40-20 range for most
freight trains on the West Coast (no matter what RR) ... that is
40% home road, 40% other West Coast roads, and 20% East Coast RRs
(East of the Mississippi).
Perhaps that 40% PRR "rule" is more an East Coast guideline?"

Jim,
I don't know who's been quoting this "40% PRR/NYC Rule" to you, but it shows
a total lack of understanding of the analysis that we've been discussing.
It fails to take many of the factors that we've been discussing into account
regarding car types and commodities. The "40% PRR/NYC Rule" is barely valid
for PRR or NYC layouts, and that's because of the large numbers of hoppers
owned by these roads, making 40% hold only for modeled locales that feature
large amounts of coal or mineral traffic.

I'll have to challenge your 40-40-20 assertion for all West Coast railroads.
What have you based your analysis on?


Ben Hom


Re: ACF tank car book - question

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Brian and other list subscribers should note that Ed Kaminski spell
his last name with an "i", not a"y", and is a bit sensitive (as he is
entitled to be) about having it spelled correctly.
Richard Hendrickson <

Noted.

Since the list membership here is composed of individuals who stand on
equal footing (I assume), I would not deliberately misspell Ed's last
name any more than I would deliberately misspell any other member's
name here.

Such a thing, to me, is such a small thing when it is committed
inadvertantly, that when such a thing has occurred with my name, I
attach no import to it; I ignore it. Of course, another person is not
required to see such a thing as I see such a thing.

Anyway, no offense was intended.

Brian (Brain, Bryon) Chapman (Chatman, Chapmen, Chatham)


Re: The Rules

Jim Betz
 

I model the Hill Lines - primarily GN and SP&S ... and have about
200 RR books that are primarily NorthWest topics but also a lot of
West Coast.
I've looked at a lot of pics of trains and although you do see a
fair number of East Coast freight cars they do not seem to be
represented in the kinds of percentages I've heard quoted ... one of
which has that has been quoted many times is "Forty percent of your
freight car fleet should be PRR/NYC." I can't even say my studies
have shown even that number for 'non-West Coast RRs'. It seems to
me that the percentages seem more in the 40-40-20 range for most
freight trains on the West Coast (no matter what RR) ... that is
40% home road, 40% other West Coast roads, and 20% East Coast RRs
(East of the Mississippi).
Perhaps that 40% PRR "rule" is more an East Coast guideline?


Re: The Rules (was Northern Pacific double sheathed box cars)

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Ben;
Good guess!

I have repeatedly heard that Monongahela River valley bituminous was
extensively used in steam locomotives (as well as power plants,
coke-making operations, etc.) due to its low waste content (the
Pittsburgh seam was only coal, and pretty clean, at that) and high
caloric value. The PRR used its own hoppers whenever possible, but the
P&LE (and by passing, P,McK&Y) and by ownership, the Montour, had very
large interchanges of hoppers with the PRR in the valley. The presence
of lots of B&O hoppers in that mix would also not be a surprise, as the
B&O also had lots of coal that mined from similar sources, and also did
an awful lot of swapping hoppers with the PRR.

The NYC hoppers seem to have also turned up in pretty big numbers, by
way of the P&LE in my area, but they also accessed numerous bituminous
mines in central PA, as well. Regardless of their absence in the Mon
valley directly, they still were sell represented in that area, too.

It is also interesting that this list looks a lot like the list of
hoppers you would have seen in the Mon Valley, anyway, as those other
roads' hoppers
Had a tendency to "wander" over that way, for some reason.....easier
than buying new hoppers, maybe?

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:59 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: The Rules (was Northern Pacific double sheathed box
cars)

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"...the Pennsy freight car fleet (as well as those of a number of
other NE and middle Atlantic RRs, e.g. N&W) included large numbers of
coal hoppers which either didn't go off-line or didn't go off-line
very far. Thus, though the Pennsy had about twice as many cars as
the NYC, a much greater proportion of them were hoppers in coal
service. This doesn't invalidate Peacock's theorem but does suggest
that the theorem should be extended to NYC as well as PRR."

It depends on what how far is "very far". I've been helping Armand
out with analyzing his Rutland trainsheets and Alburg, VT car logs.
The Rutland had no on-line coal mines, but maintained a small fleet
of twin hoppers and hopper bottom gons for company coal service.
Incoming company coal was forwarded to Alburg, where it was emptied
and transferred to Rutland cars. The foreign road empties were then
routed off-line to minimize per-diem charges. I'm still in the early
stages of data entry, but preliminary analysis for 202 hopper cars
between June 1947 and January 1951 indicate the following number of
cars by roadname:

PRR: 40
B&O: 34
NYC: 16
P&LE: 14
PMcK&Y: 10
RDG: 7
D&H: 6
Erie: 3
LV: 3
C&O: 2
CRP: 2
WM: 2
BM: 1
C&S: 1
CC&O: 1
CNJ: 1
INT: 1
LNE: 1
N&W: 1
P&S: 1
WLE: 1

R: 53

Too early to draw sweeping conclusions just yet as this sample size
is rather small, but it does raise questions on where the Rutland got
its locomotive coal, with the large number of PRR, B&O, NYC, P&LE,
and PMcK&Y cars. Pittsburgh area mines, perhaps? Armand sent me a
big stack of these to go through, so a lot more data points are still
waiting to be plotted.

I agree wholeheartedly that NYC should be included. I wish many more
NYC modelers thought so as well. If they won't agitate for more
accurate NYC freight car, the rest of will have to.

BTW, this also shows that not ALL coal went to New England by
steamer. Definitely true for coastal New England, but less so for
Vermont.


Ben Hom





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: The Rules

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
"I think rules 1-3 would apply most strongly if the term "box car" were
substituted for "general service" and perhaps that's what it conveys."

Richard Hendrickson responded:
"I'd add mill gondolas and flat cars to box cars but exclude both
hoppers and gondolas used primarily in bulk mineral service."

I intentionally used the wording "general service" for exactly the
reasons that Richard spelled out, as those rules really do apply to
other car types besides boxcars. (Unfortunately, four years inside the
Beltway forces you to pay attention to semantics.)


Ben Hom


Re: The Rules (was Northern Pacific double sheathed box cars)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"...the Pennsy freight car fleet (as well as those of a number of
other NE and middle Atlantic RRs, e.g. N&W) included large numbers of
coal hoppers which either didn't go off-line or didn't go off-line
very far. Thus, though the Pennsy had about twice as many cars as
the NYC, a much greater proportion of them were hoppers in coal
service. This doesn't invalidate Peacock's theorem but does suggest
that the theorem should be extended to NYC as well as PRR."

It depends on what how far is "very far". I've been helping Armand
out with analyzing his Rutland trainsheets and Alburg, VT car logs.
The Rutland had no on-line coal mines, but maintained a small fleet
of twin hoppers and hopper bottom gons for company coal service.
Incoming company coal was forwarded to Alburg, where it was emptied
and transferred to Rutland cars. The foreign road empties were then
routed off-line to minimize per-diem charges. I'm still in the early
stages of data entry, but preliminary analysis for 202 hopper cars
between June 1947 and January 1951 indicate the following number of
cars by roadname:

PRR: 40
B&O: 34
NYC: 16
P&LE: 14
PMcK&Y: 10
RDG: 7
D&H: 6
Erie: 3
LV: 3
C&O: 2
CRP: 2
WM: 2
BM: 1
C&S: 1
CC&O: 1
CNJ: 1
INT: 1
LNE: 1
N&W: 1
P&S: 1
WLE: 1

R: 53

Too early to draw sweeping conclusions just yet as this sample size
is rather small, but it does raise questions on where the Rutland got
its locomotive coal, with the large number of PRR, B&O, NYC, P&LE,
and PMcK&Y cars. Pittsburgh area mines, perhaps? Armand sent me a
big stack of these to go through, so a lot more data points are still
waiting to be plotted.

I agree wholeheartedly that NYC should be included. I wish many more
NYC modelers thought so as well. If they won't agitate for more
accurate NYC freight car, the rest of will have to.

BTW, this also shows that not ALL coal went to New England by
steamer. Definitely true for coastal New England, but less so for
Vermont.


Ben Hom


Re: The Rules (was Northern Pacific double sheathed box cars)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Fred Freitas wrote:
"Will you require extraction by boat crew from Little Creek? Still
have friends there. Heads up----------------!!!!"

Thanks for the offer, but I'm still stuck in the basement of the
Pentagon doing "half days".

Mandatory freight car content: I always wondered how they got the
material to the Pentagon site during construction between September
1941 and January 1943. As you can see from the link, a LOT of
construction material went into this place:
http://www.pentagon.mil/pubs/pentagon/facts.html

A spur from Potomac Yard, perhaps?


Ben Hom


Re: The Rules (was Northern Pacific double sheathed box cars)

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Garth,

Same area, now think U S Navy. I'm sure Ben got it, and I will get it back in some form or another. Has to do with his close association with water craft.
Still, the USCG was a good idea; I'll save that for someone deserving!! Thanks---

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth Groff
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: The Rules (was Northern Pacific double sheathed box cars)


Fred,

Are you thinking of the time the Virginia & Maryland dropped several
cars off a float into Little Creek, Virginia, and the Coast Guard had to
round up floating auto racks stuffed with Ford pick-ups? Or is this some
other Little Creek?

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Fred in Vt. wrote:

>Ben,
>
> Will you require extraction by boat crew from Little Creek? Still have friends there. Heads up----------------!!!!
>
>Fred F
>
>


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Re: The Rules (was Northern Pacific double sheathed box cars)

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson notes:

"I'd add mill gondolas and flat cars to box cars but exclude both
hoppers and gondolas used primarily in bulk mineral service."

A good point. My observation of the frt conductor book turns up quite a few eastern gons on UP tracks between Laramie and Green River...the Overland Route.


"Also, to
Mike's observation about adjacent RRs, I would add that it depended on
the RRs. Competing RRs, e.g. SP and ATSF, routed traffic where
possible to reduce their competitors' income from it and typically
returned their competitors' cars empty as soon as possible to avoid
paying per diem."

Another interesting point. I believe UP and Rio Grande were probably also in a similar position...although I have no direct evidence. I do know that my experience has been that Rio Grande and WP cars deon't show prominently in UP trains whereas SP cars do. SP...of course...was a main component of the Overland Route as well and a compliment to the UP Ogden-Omaha trunk. Mopac cars, however, as well as Q cars do show up in significant numbers. And, C&NW cars.

Mike Brock

153041 - 153060 of 195626