Date   

Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 27, 2005, at 2:55 PM, buchwaldfam wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.
Phil, I have a ca. 1950 photo of a Santa Fe steel reefer in Milwaukee being loaded with cartons of Schlitz beer in cans. PFE cars were doubtless used for this purpose as well.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

buchwaldfam wrote:

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.

Five of the 64 westbound loaded PFE reefers in the UP Conductor's Fraley Fall 1947 were loaded with beer. No idea who the brewer was.

There was one westbound SLRX beer load reported, but no MRS boxcars.

Tim Gilbert


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Since beer was quite often shipped in insulated box cars, does this
imply that I can run PFE reefers loaded FROM the Schlitz brewery? I
have a picture of a Manufacturers Railway insulated box car on the
lead at Schlitz around 1950. That one really surprised me since
Manufacturers was the Anhauser Busch road.

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Regarding "left to right," remember that about 20% of PFE
reefers westbound were loads in the ice age (being used mostly as
insulated box cars, rarely as reefers).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Florida reefers was More From the Florida Archives.

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson says:


Mike Brock wrote:
First, FL is most definitely NOT self sufficient regarding produce now
and
hasn't been for some time . . .FL receives . . . unbelievably . . .
citrus from California . . .
Not sure why it's out of scope, Mike, as in the era of this list
those shipments would have come in freight cars.
Quite true but I was referring to now which I certainly don't want to open the door for discussion.

One thing...one has to be very careful about discussing the relative merits of FL/Cal fruit while in FL <g>. One thing is for sure, Tree ripened fruit is best. BTW, Tennessee strawberries were in the steam era, IMO, considerably better than what one finds now. Hmmm. Just like with locomotives.

Mike Brock


Re: Reefers in the South was Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

On Jul 27, 2005, at 12:47 PM, I wrote:


I imagine that the SOU got the business only instead of banana boats
usually arriving in Baltimore or further north because many of those
banana boats were being retrofitted for civilian service after WW II: -
the Gulf Ports allowing a quicker turnaround than the North Atlantic Ports.
Bruce Smith responded:


I suppose that the number of PFE cars being so close to the FGE group is a sign of the immediate post WWII time frame and the suspension of the car service rules for reefers as well.
Bruce,

I tend to think that the War Time suspension of Car Service Rules for Reefers were the reason that PFE were used in the Banana Trade from the Gulf Ports rather than proximity to the FGE Group. Putting it in another way, the percentage of perishables loaded in PFE reefers of the total perishables loaded by the UP, SP and WP as per page 450 of Thompson et al.'s PFE was 91% in 1941; 73% in 1943; 66% in 1947; and 84% in 1949: - the suspension was started in 1942 and ended in 1949.

Tim Gilbert


Re: PFE (& SFRD) Westbound Loads

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Bruce, the PFE correspondence archives (and probably SFRD too)
support the continual problem with eastern shippers and railroads
confiscating PFE and SFRD cars, as they were typically in better shape
than FGE (and far better than MDT, ART, etc.) and therefore preferred.
Some parts of the year, PFE did not much care (after all, they got paid
mileage on all movements), but in the peak season, roughly July to
October, they were quite intolerant of confiscation and worked extra
hard to find and return all empties westward.
Regarding "left to right," remember that about 20% of PFE
reefers westbound were loads in the ice age (being used mostly as
insulated box cars, rarely as reefers).
Of the 170 westbound PFE reefers between Laramie and Rawlins WY reported by Fraley in the Fall of 1947, 106 were empty and 64 were loaded. 31 of those loads were LCL Merchandise which did not need insulation. Instead they were used in lieu of boxcars which were needed on the UP for eastbound grain traffic from Nebraska and Kansas.

According to page 15 of Jordan, Hendrickson, et al.'s SANTA FE REFRIGERATOR CARS, the Santa Fe had special dock facilities at Argentine Yard to load reefers with LCL; I assume that the LCL Transfer at Argentine was not equipped to load reefers efficiently due to their hinged doors (vs. sliding on boxcars), and that merchandise had to be trucked over from the Transfer to this special dock facility.

At C&NW's Proviso Transfer, special dock facilities were not necessary because each track had direct access to a permanent platform. At many other LCL Transfers, only the platform track was directly accessible; LCL on parallel tracks had to be unloaded/loaded through car doors to reach a permanent platform. Short portable platforms allowed LCL to be hand-trucked between cars on parallel tracks.

Tim Gilbert

Tim Gilbert


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
PFE 15110 A PFE reefer! How could you post that? Don't you know
that loaded PFE reefers only ran left to right!! Oh the humanity! I
think a warning label might have been in order as some list members
may be unduly shocked by seeing that photograph ;^)

Of course, I LOVE it as it supports a mix of reefers hauling Florida
produce north, which would have included PFE, MDT, and FGE/BRE/WFE
(although that PFE date of 1928 is quite a bit earlier than the other two)
Bruce, the PFE correspondence archives (and probably SFRD too) support the continual problem with eastern shippers and railroads confiscating PFE and SFRD cars, as they were typically in better shape than FGE (and far better than MDT, ART, etc.) and therefore preferred. Some parts of the year, PFE did not much care (after all, they got paid mileage on all movements), but in the peak season, roughly July to October, they were quite intolerant of confiscation and worked extra hard to find and return all empties westward.
Regarding "left to right," remember that about 20% of PFE reefers westbound were loads in the ice age (being used mostly as insulated box cars, rarely as reefers).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Florida reefers was More From the Florida Archives.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
First, FL is most definitely NOT self sufficient regarding produce now and
hasn't been for some time . . .FL receives . . . unbelievably . . . citrus from California . . .
Not sure why it's out of scope, Mike, as in the era of this list those shipments would have come in freight cars. As every California learns as a child, Florida oranges are not outstanding table fruit and have traditionally been used primarily for juice; California oranges are the reverse. California has long been the dominant US producer of lemons also.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wabash #8000-8299 series boxcars #8000-8299

Ed Hawkins
 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2005, at 09:41 AM, stefanelaine wrote:

osted this message to the Wabash list, but did not receive a
response: I'd like to letter a Wabash #8000-8299 series 10'6" 40' DD
boxar for the early - mid 1950s using CDs dry trnasfers. Does anyone
have a photo of one of these cars? Black roof? Ends? Any idea if wood
or steel running board? Type of trucks?

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Stefan Lerché
Stefan,
A photo appeared in the Nov/Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler on page
17 (car no. 8153), taken circa 1963. I can't be of help to you
regarding official paint specs but the sides and ends were no doubt
Wabash #10 Red. Chances are good that the roof was coated with black
car cement as this was a common practice on Wabash box cars built
during the early 1950s. The side sill extends in a straight line
between the bolsters. The running board on car 8258 (Joe Collias photo
in 1962 of a repainted car 3-59) shows a U.S. Gypsum running board and
A.A.R. spring plankless trucks. Perhaps Chet French has more data about
these cars and will report. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: CA as gap filler.

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Not to mention green shrinks. Use the Squadron white instead.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:39:36 -0700
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: CA as gap filler.

John Swanson wrote:
Another trick I picked up is to place Squadron putty (I near always
use Green Putty) on a piece of around .020 styrene and wipe it into
the area to be filled. This fills the area under pressure so it fills
nicely and leaves little sanding.
In other contexts, John, the tool would be a putty knife.
Therefore not IMO a "new" trick.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: CA as gap filler.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Swanson wrote:
Another trick I picked up is to place Squadron putty (I near always use Green Putty) on a piece of around .020 styrene and wipe it into the area to be filled. This fills the area under pressure so it fills nicely and leaves little sanding.
In other contexts, John, the tool would be a putty knife. Therefore not IMO a "new" trick.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Reefers in the South was Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Jul 27, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:
Bruce,

While probably not from Florida (probably Mobile or New Orleans,
instead), on September 27th, 1946 there was a 43 reefer block loaded
with bananas northbound on the Southern's Washington Division (Monroe VA
to Pot Yard). The road names of the 43 reefers included: - FGEX group (9
- FGEX; 2 - BREX; 2 - WFEX; and 1 CX); 11 - PFE; 7 - MDT; 4 - ART; 3 -
SFRD; 2- URTX; 1 - NP; and 1 Indecipherable.
Tim,

Thanks! I love it!!! For such a small sample, this is pretty close to some ratios I was working with for the fleet I need. The FGEX:BREX:WFEX ratio is close at 9:2:2 (should be 6:3:1).

I imagine that the SOU got the business only instead of banana boats
usually arriving in Baltimore or further north because many of those
banana boats were being retrofitted for civilian service after WW II: -
the Gulf Ports allowing a quicker turnaround than the North Atlantic Ports.
I suppose that the number of PFE cars being so close to the FGE group is a sign of the immediate post WWII time frame and the suspension of the car service rules for reefers as well.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Fred,

Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, or sometimes chutes, which were supposed to carry the water away from the car, much like the downspouts on a house. How effective this was at high speed, remains questionable. One would expect considerable spray hitting the car thanks to the turbulance. This detail is rarely modeled.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Fred in Vt. wrote:

Guyz,

Corosion will attack most anything, so, what happens to the trucks / journal bearings if this drip is similar to acid? Did the reefer co's install a pan to attempt to wash it outboard of the trucks?

Fred F


Re: 10/46 and 1/47 ORER Request

Bob Bowes
 

STMFC,
I apologize for the extra bandwidth, but would a member having either
or both the 10/46 and 1/47 ORER tell me if Fruit Growers Express car
number 40000 is listed in these specific editions? This was a car with
aluminum construction. Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Not listed in the OCT. '46. Nothing from 38699 to 43500.
--

Bob Bowes
St. Thomas, Ontario.
robert.bowes@...


Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Guyz,

Corosion will attack most anything, so, what happens to the trucks / journal bearings if this drip is similar to acid? Did the reefer co's install a pan to attempt to wash it outboard of the trucks?

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: mcindoefalls
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks



> In the days of ice refrigerator cars, dripping brine on the rails
> posed a significant maintenance issue to the railroads. The salt
> caused corrosion of track and track components.
>
> Regards
> Bruce
>
Not to mention the corrosion of bridges!

Walt Lankenau




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 26, 2005, at 10:02 PM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

Railroads sometimes added salt to the ice in ice bunker refrigerator
cars to achieve lower load temperatures. John H. White's book, The
Great Yellow Fleet, mentions on Page 106 that "brine tanks to catch
and hold the discharge were required on cars used in interchange
service". The previous paragraph in the book implies he is discussing
refrigerator cars used for meat and frozen foods.

My question is, were such brine tanks ever required for RS reefers in
produce service?
Tony Thompson has already responded to this query, but I would like to
add a caution about using The Great Yellow Fleet as an authority on
refrigerator cars and reefer operations. The first half of the book on
the 19th and early 20th century development of refrigerator cars was,
in fact, written entirely by Jack White, and you can take whatever he
wrote on the subject to the bank. However, most of the second half of
the text and photo captions was written by White's publisher and silent
collaborator, Donald Duke, and there are errors of fact or
interpretation on almost every page. Duke has a fine track record as a
publisher but an abysmal one as a researcher, an activity in which he
has neither significant credentials nor significant experience.
Regrettably, you can't believe in the accuracy of anything you read in
the second half of the book, and that's unfortunate because, especially
with Jack White as named author, it looks like the kind of book you
should be able to trust.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: More From the Florida Archives.

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:


Of course, I LOVE it as it supports a mix of reefers hauling Florida produce north, which would have included PFE, MDT, and FGE/BRE/WFE (although that PFE date of 1928 is quite a bit earlier than the other two)
Bruce,

While probably not from Florida (probably Mobile or New Orleans, instead), on September 27th, 1946 there was a 43 reefer block loaded with bananas northbound on the Southern's Washington Division (Monroe VA to Pot Yard). The road names of the 43 reefers included: - FGEX group (9 - FGEX; 2 - BREX; 2 - WFEX; and 1 CX); 11 - PFE; 7 - MDT; 4 - ART; 3 - SFRD; 2- URTX; 1 - NP; and 1 Indecipherable.

I imagine that the SOU got the business only instead of banana boats usually arriving in Baltimore or further north because many of those banana boats were being retrofitted for civilian service after WW II: - the Gulf Ports allowing a quicker turnaround than the North Atlantic Ports.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Florida reefers was More From the Florida Archives.

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Bruce Smith writes:

You are <G>. I would be VERY curious to know of a circumstance
whereby fresh produce was shipped TO florida <VBG>. Especially in 1928.
I'm going to carefully note that part of my response is out of scope and additional messages on the subject are also out of scope...so don't do it <g>.

First, FL is most definitely NOT self sufficient regarding produce now and hasn't been for some time. I cannot say if that was true in our period although I could probably find out. Coincidentally, I know a guy who is a FL historian who very likely owns the best collection of Florida photos that exists today. At least he thinks so. Anyhow...quickly...and out of scope...FL receives...unbelievably...citrus from California and other fruit...strawberries, black berries and blue berries from Mexico, Central America and North Carolina to name three locations I am familiar with even though all are grown in Florida. That's enough on this out of scope subject.

Mike Brock


10/46 and 1/47 ORER Request

Ed Hawkins
 

STMFC,
I apologize for the extra bandwidth, but would a member having either or both the 10/46 and 1/47 ORER tell me if Fruit Growers Express car number 40000 is listed in these specific editions? This was a car with aluminum construction. Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks

mcindoefalls
 

In the days of ice refrigerator cars, dripping brine on the rails
posed a significant maintenance issue to the railroads. The salt
caused corrosion of track and track components.

Regards
Bruce
Not to mention the corrosion of bridges!

Walt Lankenau

153281 - 153300 of 196884