I am working on my Naperville presentation on the steel 40 foot cars
owned by FGE/WFE/BRE and there is one mystery I have yet to solve, the
series numbered 52680-52799, which is noted in the ORER as an all steel
car.

This series, which first appeared in 1942 with 100 cars, is an unknown
entity to me in terms of the design and what the cars looked like, as I
have never seen a photo of any car from this series.

I am curious if anyone has a photo from this series and what their
source was, and any other descriptive info thay can give me?

Bill Welch

Photos of a pipe load on a flat car for your inspection and comments.
Comments, critiques, suggestions, and Ideas are solicited.
I am not exactly sure where the photos went, since after uploading
them, I can't access the photo section to hunt for them. I dunno what
happened yet.

Demetre>

Mike:

I got in on the Monon mini-kits and they are great. I'm sure we can
work out a purchase arrangement. How many children do you have and when
was the first one born?

Mont Switzer

I am working up some HOn3 Ingoldsby car kits. there were a few standard
gauge railroads that had them also. is there any interest in a standard gauge
car kit?

eric/riograndemodels

I apologize in advance for a long posting, but I've been working on a
B&LE freight car roster and would like to solicit additions and
corrections. I'm interested in number series, builder, build month
and year/s, builder lot number, B&LE class number, B&LE renumberings,
dispositions, and clarifications on secondhand cars B&LE acquired.
There also may be series that I've missed. Though the roster runs
past 1960, it's the pre-1960 cars that I have the hardest time
finding information on.

1000 ? /61 covered hopper
1001 ? /? covered hopper
1001-1099 ? /? gondola
1000+1795 GSC lot 1162 1/79 hopper ex ROCK 700300-700799 via URDX
1900-1904 Morrison International 12/60 caboose
1905-1921 International Car 10/75 caboose
1954+1969 GSC lot 306 4/41 offset bay window caboose
2000 GSC lot 915 1/67 hopper
2001 B&LE /67 hopper
2004 Pullman lot 9399 3/69 hopper HK41 class
2005-2974 ? /? gondola
3501-4500 (1st) PSC /03 gondola ex URR
3601-3650 (2nd) ACF lot 1997 4/40 covered hopper LO1 class
3701-3720 (2nd) Pullman lot 8231B 5/55 covered hopper LO2 class
3721-3740 (2nd) Pullman lot 8308B 5/56 covered hopper LO3 class
3741-3765 (2nd) Pullman lot 9188 3-5/67 covered hopper LO4 class?
3766-3820 (2nd) Pullman lot 9462A 10/69 covered hopper LO5 class
4000-4039 GSC lot 801 1/63 flatcar ex D&TSL 6100-6199
4301-4400 (2nd) ACF /39 flatcar FM5 class
4401-4450 (2nd) Magor lot P-9780 4/41 flatcar FM6 class
4550-4582 ? /? flatcar
4599 GSC /57? or 4/62? flatcar ex 4603
4601 Thrall 4/58 flatcar FM9 class
4602 Thrall 4/58 depressed center flatcat FD1 class
4603 GSC /57? or 4/62? flatcar to 4599
4604-4605 Thrall 6/68 flatcar
4606-4610 ? /? flatcar
4700-4734 ? /? flatcar
5101-5400 (1st) SSC /08 hopper ex H.C. Frick Coke
5301+5400 (2nd) ? /39? TOFC flatcar FC5 class
5401+5450 ? /41? TOFC flatcar FC6 class
6001-6010 (1st) ? /57? flatcar FMS7 class
6000-6014 (2nd) Evans lot 1-6009 9/67 coil FMS10 to 16000-16014
8000 GSC lot 686 5/57 flatcar
8101-9100 PSC /02 hopper
9101-9600 SSC /07 hopper
9601-9900 SSC /08 hopper ex National Mining
9901-10000 SSC /08 gondola ex National Mining
12101-13100 SSC 7/05 gondola
13101-13600 PSC /07 gondola
13601-14100 SSC 10/12 gondola
14101-15100 (1st) PSC /14 gondola
14101+14130 (2nd) ? /? gondola
14201-14210 (2nd) ? /? gondola
14251+14299 (2nd) ? /? gondola
14301+14350 (2nd) ? /? gondola
14400-14404 (2nd) ? /? gondola
14425+14429 (2nd) ? /? gondola
14500 ? /46? hopper HM27 class
15001+15500 (2nd) ? /40? gondola GBR7 class
15000-15099 (3rd) GSC lot 962 12/68 gondola
15100-15179 ?/? gondola
15200-15479 Pullman lot 9821 9/75 gondola GB31 class
16001-16500 (1st) PSC /40 gondola
16000-16014 (2nd) Evans lot 1-6009 9/67 coil GBSR 27 ex 6000-6014
16050-16063 (2nd) Evans lot 1-6002 5-6/67 coil GBS36 ex P&LE 42100-
42249

16100-16109 (2nd) Evans lot 201022 2-4/66 GBS37 coil ex P&LE 42000-
42099 via EJ&E 7300-7359/16100-16109

17001+17500 ? /40? gondola GB2 class
18001-18025 GSC lot 616? /53 gondola GBR3 class ex URR 1000+2974?
18026-18040 ? /? gondola
18051-18063 GSC /54 gondola ex URR
18070-18080 ? /? gondola
19001+19999 ? /37- /42? gondola GB8 class
20001-20500 GSC lot 603 6/52 ore HMA1 class, some to ACY 6102-6133
20501-20700 GSC lot 622 10/53 ore HMA2 class
20701-20890 ? /? ore
20900-20982 ? /? ore
21000-21020 ? /? ore
30000-30199 ACF lot 11-09601 8/80 gondola
31000-31009 Evans lot 1-6010 12/67-1/68 GBSR15 coil car
32000-32009 Darby 12/67 gondola
32010-32030 ? /? gondola
33026-33100 ? /? gondola
34001-34025 GSC lot 157 12/29 gondola GB4 class
34800-34999 ? /? gondola
35001-35500 (1st) RSC /16 gondola
35026-35100 (2nd) Pullman lot 8136 9-10/53 gondola GBS65? class
36001-36500 GSC lot 245 /37 gondola GB5 class
36501-36800 GSC lot 344 6/42 gondola GB6 class
36801-37000 PSC /42 gondola GB6 class
39001+39500 ? /37? gondola GBS5 class
40001-41000 (1st) SSC 10/14 hopper
40000-40049 (2nd) ? /? ballast hopper
41001-41250 PSC /14 hopper
41251-41500 RSC /14 hopper
41501-42000 ACF /16 hopper
42001-42750 PSC /17 hopper
42751-43500 SSC 10/16-?/17 hopper
43501-43750 ACF 10/18 hopper
43751-44000 SSC 10/18 hopper
45000 ? /60? boxcar
45001-45100 PSC 3/35 hopper HT13 class?
50001-50500 (1st) Pullman lot 5842 10/46 hopper HM25 class
50501-50750 (1st) PSC 12/46 hopper HM25 class
50000+50299 (2nd) GSC lot 1151 /78 hopper ex ROCK 700000-700299
50300+50799 (2nd) GSC lot 1162 1/79 hopper ex ROCK 700300-700799
50800+51019 GSC lot 1174 4-5/79 hopper ex ROCK 700800-701299
51020+51299 GSC lot 1174 4-5/79 hopper ex ROCK 700800-701299
60001-60300 SSC 6/31 hopper HT4 class
60301-60600 PSC /31 hopper HT4 class
60601-60950 ACF /31 hopper HT4 class
60951-61050 GSC lot 177 7/31 hopper HT4 class
62001-62500 Pullman lot 8022 3/52 hopper HT26 class
63000-63499 ? /? hopper
63500-63599 ? /? hopper
64000-64499 ? /? hopper
65001-65800 Pullman lot 5521 6/36 hopper HT17 class
65000-65547 Pullman lot 9904 11-12/75 hopper HT48 class - 65000 built
painted bicentennial #1776?

65548 Pullman lot 9904B 2/76 hopper ex 99025?
65549 Pullman lot 9904A 2/76 hopper HT51 class
65550-66149 GSC lot 1148 11/77 hopper HT52 class
65801-66000 PSC /36 hopper HT17 class
66001-67000 Pullman lot 5555 4-6/37 hopper HT19 class
67001-68000 Pullman lot 5622 2-4/40 hopper HT24 class
68001-68650 Pullman lot 5660 3-4/41 hopper HT22 class
68651-69075 Pullman lot 5712 5-7/42 hopper HT23 class
69101-69900 Pullman lot 5725 5-9/43 hopper HT24 class
70001-70200 PSC /26 hopper ex American Steel & Wire
70201-70841 RSC /29 hopper ex H.C. Frick Coke
74000-74499 ? /? hopper
75001-75750 ACF /36 hopper HT16 class
75751-76000 GATC /36 hopper HT16 class
76001-76500 ACF lot 1633 6/37 hopper HT18 class
77000-77600 ? /? hopper
77800-78500 ? /? hopper
80001-80385 SSC 3/13 boxcar
80386-80400 SSC 3/13 boxcar
80401-80691 SSC /12 boxcar ex URR
80692-81075 PSC /12 boxcar ex URR
81001-81500 GSC lot 291 2-3/40 boxcar XM3 class ex 91001-91500
81501-81800 GSC lot 311 2/41 boxcar XM3 class ex 91501-91800
82001 GSC lot 745 3/62 boxcar ex GSC GV-5
82100-82103 ACF lot 11-06374 1/66 boxcar XML7 class
82500-82529 EJ&E? /66? boxcar ex EJ&E
82550-82569 ? /? boxcar
84000-84499 ? /? hopper
87000-87477 ? /? hopper
90001-90100 (1st) SSC 4/13 boxcar
90001-90100 (2nd) Pullman lot 5584 8/38 boxcar
90101-90200 Pullman lot 5584 8/38 boxcar
90201-90300 ACF /41 boxcar XM3 class
90000+90638 ? /? hopper
91001-91500 GSC lot 291 2-3/40 boxcar XM1 class to 81001-81500
91501-91800 GSC lot 311 2/41 boxcar XM4 class to 81501-81800
92000-94700 ? /? hopper
95000-96999 ? /? hopper
98000-98199 Pullman lot 9481 5/70 hopper
98202-99001 Pullman lot 9556 9-12/71 hopper HK43 class to CR
498209+498267

99002-99005 Pullman lot 9556A /71 hopper
99006-99024 Pullman lot 9556B /71 hopper
99025 Pullman lot 9904B 2/76 hopper to 65548?

In addition, there are some I can't identify a number series for:

15 Ortner coil gondolas 3/69
5 Darby coil gondolas 4/70
16 Darby coil gondolas /72- /73?
50 Greenville 30' hot ingot cars /72?


Stephen Mayberry

This is very intriguing. So if one was to turn a form for a tank car body on a lathe, with appropriate ends, and a recess along the main diameter to allow for a wrapper, one could rapid prototype wrappers with appropriate rivet strips, then have them flat cast, and glue them round the form to make a variety of tank cars with that diameter? For radial course tanks, one wrapper could potentially be made to fit a number of diameters (rivet spacing perhaps being the differentiating characteristic that could spoil the idea.) For insulated cars, an inner diameter rivet strip for the ends would have to be added as well.

The all one would need is a variety of frames to put beneath those tanks,

frames and domes....

Rob Kirkham -
getting closer to homemade tank cars.

I wrote:

....For starters, your parts can have recesses on
the bottom side, but not details. Remember that honeycomb support
structure I mentioned? All features on the first layer have to
bridge multiple cells of that honeycomb or they will simply float
away and sink to the bottom of the tank.

The bottom of the part doesn't have to be in one plane - the honeycomb
support structure will build up to meet the contour whatever the
shape. You just can't have small projections on the bottom side. There
won't be anything to support them.

Tom Madden

Google it, Ed. I've seen it. It's published in your area, western NYS. It's a pretty nice
magazine, with what seems to me to be pretty high quality printing, and some interesting articles.
Prototype oriented, not models, AFAIK. It deserves more . . .uh . . . .press.

SGL

I've seen the company's website, and I was very disappointed.
They require you to use their proprietary software, which is VERY
restrictive, and they will only cut wood.
Their software only supports certain designs of windows and doors
(for structures), and that's it.

I do not see any benefit to STMFC modeling from that company
(their name escapes me, too!)

Regards,

-Jeff

Jeff et al:

King Mill Enterprises at
http://www.kingmill.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=40

Jack Boren

Jeff Aley asked:

Is it easier to create a CAD drawing for RP as compared to doing
drawings for injection-molding? I am under the impression that I
could easily do a CAD drawing for a box car, whereas DESIGNING
injection molds requires far more intelligence, skill, and
experience than just re-drawing a paper drawing on the computer.
I would think that the RP method frees one from having to consider
things like material flow, how to eject the part from the mold,
etc. I do, of course, realize that resin casting can only handle
undercuts to a very limited extent.

Are my fantasies even *close* to reality, or am I way off base?

Gee Jeff, I'm not sure I want any insight into your personal fantasies!

CAD for RP is neither easier nor harder than CAD for injection
molding, just different. For starters, your parts can have recesses on
the bottom side, but not details. Remember that honeycomb support
structure I mentioned? All features on the first layer have to bridge
multiple cells of that honeycomb or they will simply float away and
sink to the bottom of the tank. You want to avoid overhangs for the
same reason - everything on a part has to be supported by something as
it is built. Don't put fine details on vertical surfaces - rivets
built sideways don't look very good. Avoid sloped or curved surfaces
if possible. They show stairstepping, which on a 1:1 conventional RP
part is removed by sanding. You can't do that on a miniature part with
rivets. So, the idea is to break down your model into a series of flat
RP parts, then build those flat parts (or first-generation castings of
them) into the actual casting masters. Stereolithography doesn't do
very thin parts well, so if you want thin flat parts, design them on a
thicker support plate and flat cast them later. See the following
photo for an example:
http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Details.jpg

The parts are left & right "wings" for the top of a Pullman blind end
(sloped surfaces on the finished end) and left & right collision posts
for the same end (vertical surfaces on the finished end). I made a
rubber mold from that plate and two others, which I then cut apart so
that the surfaces of the plates became the surfaces of three new,
small molds for flat casting. Easier to show than to describe, but I
just did the first pour on those molds and they're in the pressure
tank curing right now.

My Naperville clinic on this topic will have some "Gee Whiz!" stuff
just for show, but mostly I'll be going over design considerations
like the above.

Tom Madden

Justing, got this message from Gene the other day. He is doing very well.

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com <http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com/>


Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:44 AM

Subject: Recent Health Issues


To all who wished me well or remembered Heide and me in your prayers, THANK
YOU! I feel better now than I have felt in a couple of years. (Apparently
that is typical for this type of procedure.)

I first noticed symptoms at 3:30 AM Saturday. By 4 AM the ambulance had
transported me to the ER. By 10:30 AM the problem had been identified and
two stents inserted through my groin. Two arteries leading to my heart had
been blocked 100%. I was discharged from the hospital just after 5 PM
Monday.

I'll know the extent of heart damage, etc. in a couple of weeks but, in the
meantime, I feel confident that all my weakness, light-headedness, etc. in
Iowa last year was likely related to this. I am abundantly optimistic about
everything.

Gene


Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso


_____

Yahoo! for Good
Click here <http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/> to donate to the
Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Scott wrote:

Now that Broadway has released their GACX 53'6" express reefer, why

should we care? Is it a different prototype than the Walthers model? They look
almost identical. The Broadway version costs a couple dollars more.<<



Bruce wrote:

Scott,

AFAIK, they are identical prototypes. I would LOVE to see an unbiased side
by side review of these cars.

Regards
Bruce<

I too would like to see a comparison, but not to each other, rather both to
an accurate set of plans. This is the only true comparison.

Greg Martin

Mike,

I didn't go to Cinnci but the name of the business is King Mill Enterprises. They have released a very nice kit of the N&W depot at Green Cove (made famous in an O. Winston Link photo) as a kit called Nella Country Store & Post Office. Both very nice kits. I'm sure freight cars were spotted at the Green Cove depot (mandatory content).

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

On Sep 16, 2005, at 6:51 AM, Bob Webber wrote:

....However, I wonder then about
tank cars as that is one car type that always seems to be decried as
not having proper representation in the model world due to the many
variances and the uncertain prototypes so far chosen.

Actually, by ca. 1930 there were only two tank car manufacturers in the U.S., AC&F and General American, (plus one in Canada, Canadian Car & Foundry), and the two tank car designs that were being built from 1930 through WW II were the AC&F Type 27 and the GATC Type 30. These were thus de facto "standard" designs. The problem is that they were made in a variety of types (ICC-103, insulated ICC-104, insulated high pressure ICC-105, and other specialized tank designs for acids, corrosive chemicals, and such) as well as a variety of sizes, everything from 4,000 gal. to 12,500 gal. After WW II, both AC&F and GATC switched to all welded construction, though their tank car designs didn't change much in other respects.

Briefly, during WW II, there was a "war emergency" tank car design, intended to save steel, which was assigned specification USG-A and AC&F built more than 700 of them; they were essentially the 10,000 gal. tank of USRA design (never actually built during WW I but resurrected during WWII) mounted on a standard AC&F Type 27 underframe. Those cars can be modeled in HO scale with a Tichy tank on an Intermountain underframe, plus some detail modifications.

Conveniently, both AC&F and GATC mounted both 8k and 10K tanks on the same underframes, and Intermountain takes advantage of this to produce both 8K and 10K versions of the Type 27s with ICC-103 tanks, as does Life-Like in their models of the earlier AC&F Type 21s. But that's no help in modeling smaller size tank cars, of which there were many, nor multiple compartment cars which were almost all of 6K gal. or smaller capacity, nor large insulated ICC-105s used for chlorine and LPG service. So, in effect, the standardization of tank cars in that era meant that all the underframe components were the same, except that the underframes were of different lengths, while the tanks varied widely in size and type.

Richard Hendrickson

Jeff,

The only thing that comes to mind after hearing this
is that one could potentially have custom flat car
decks and roof walks. It sounds like the technology
might allow that, but not the vender.

Thanks for the info.

Mike

--- jaley <jaley@...> wrote:

Mike,

I've seen the company's website, and I was very
disappointed.
They require you to use their proprietary software,
which is VERY
restrictive, and they will only cut wood.
Their software only supports certain designs of
windows and doors
(for structures), and that's it.

I do not see any benefit to STMFC modeling from
that company
(their name escapes me, too!)

Regards,

-Jeff


On Sep 16, 11:49am, Mike Aufderheide wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] pattern making
I visited a freind last night that had attended

the

Cinci NMRA convention. He saw a company that was
planning to sell software soon which would design

CAD

patterns to do laser cutting. The modeler will

use

the software to design the pattern for the laser

cut

object at his home, e-mail that CAD file to the
company, and the company will send the laser cut
object to the customer. This was being developed

with

strutures in mind, but I'd imagine there would be

some

freight car possiblities.

Did anyone else see this?

What materials can be cut like this?

Is this any use for making resin patterns?

Regards,

Mike

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

This is an interesting thread and, since it does bear on the possibilities
of bringing production and semi-production freight cars to market, I think
fairly relevant to this list.
A group of us have been working with Mark4 Designs (Mark Gasson). He is a
New Zealander who has just relocated home after retiring early from a career
with BP in the US and other places in the world. He has invested in a rapid
prototyping machine called a prefactory. It is capable of doing objects in
acrylic plastic. The machine is not as expensive as the ones quoted
previously in this thread but is far from the reach of casual hobbyists.
Right now because of the cost of amortizing the machine and the build time,
the highest and best use of this machine is in the creation of masters for
resin casting. Material costs are not so severe as to eliminate the
possibility of some parts being offered directly out of the machine... Mark4
sells replacement hoods, cabs, and noses to modify Atlas and other brand
locomotives.
We have not arrived at any final pieces yet (mainly due to Mark's
relocation) but are working on a N Scale Baldwin Centercab Transfer
locomotive, steel mill bottle cars, and a CB&Q SM16 stockcar. The test
shots have been outstanding and promise to be excellent pieces once final
parts are completed.
The resolution of the process is entirely sufficient for Model Railroad
purposes. Z Scale rivets are very crisp and correctly shaped. The "stair
stepping" of early stereolithography parts is not present... there is very
little evidence of the layers that the part is built up from and most of it
can be eliminated by building the part in the correct orientation. The
material is a light-cured acrylic plastic which has very good hardness and
other characterisics.
The prefactory is in many ways a magic machine. Any object that can be
drawn in a 3d program (Solidworks is one, Rhino is another) can be processed
into a solid object in any scale from Z to G (there are some size
limitations in the build area of currently available machines which tend to
favor Z, N and HO rolling stock and smaller detail parts only for larger
scales).
The advantage over hand building masters is not great in terms of time for
the first part. Railroad cars tend to be highly modular and use standard
assemblies and parts. The real advantage to the process comes to the fore
when you begin to assemble libraries of parts and can build variations of
previously rendered objects with literally a couple of keystrokes instead of
cutting apart previous submasters to hand build new versions.
The company that is offering the kitOmat design program for custom lasercut
buildings has, as far as I can determine, a rather simplistic program for
very basic building shapes. Design of laser cut parts is not a very
difficult process and it seems to me that laser cut wood is not an ideal
medium for freight cars (or even cabooses and other non-revenue or passenger
equipment) given that the process only can yield wood sides and windows and
doors and flat roof parts. Rapid prototyping can give you all the parts
necessary for any car with the exception of the wheel pairs and the couplers
of choice.
Rapid prototyping will come down in price to the point it will be within the
reach of casual manufacturers. The learning curve to know how to draw
objects in 3D that are usuable and the tricks necessary to get usable
finished parts out of the machine is not inconsequential.... and, depending
on the amortization period selected, the hourly cost of the machine is very
substantial.
There may be processes to use the output of a prefactory, either directly
using different mediums or indirectly using the prefactory to make mold
inserts and/or as an intermediate step in emerging technologies to get to
hard tooling. This opens up the possibility of many short production cars
that are limited to resin copies of hand built masters today.
We are living in the Golden Age of Model Railroading today, but even better
things are on the horizion for tomorrow!!
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources

Mike,
I had Chris Jesse, owner of King Mill, make me a Deck for a SN3 PBL flat
adn had him bore 168 holes so I could put Tichy rivets in to simulate
carriage bolts. Very nice.He claims that he can do 25 for about $4.00 each. I don't
remember his web site but I'll see him Saturday morning at the NMRA MER
James River Division meeting in Charllottesville Virginia.
Chuck Hladik

Mike,

I've seen the company's website, and I was very disappointed.
They require you to use their proprietary software, which is VERY
restrictive, and they will only cut wood.
Their software only supports certain designs of windows and doors
(for structures), and that's it.

I do not see any benefit to STMFC modeling from that company
(their name escapes me, too!)

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

Thomas Olsen asked:
"The other question here is whether Ben Hom ever got his car order from
Aaron from two years ago? Ben was the last one waiting for Aaron to
send him his car."

I did, back in July. (Thought I cc:ed everyone about it.)


Ben Hom

Rich Yoder asked:
"Does anyone know how to get in touch with Al Kresse?"

The latest C&O Historical Magazine lists Al's contact info as:

Al Kresse
8664 Gates
Romeo MI 48065-4365
water.kresse@...

BTW, the July/August issue has two articles of interest for list
subscribers:

"Moving the Packages (LCL on the C&O)" by Charles W. Bohi

"C&O" 9500-9999 Steel-Sheathed Automobile Box Cars" by Al Kresse


Ben Hom