Ah, Larry! I know the temptation. Which is why I had to buy one of the new Atlas 36' meat refrigerator cars with the billboard "Kahn's" on it (also made years ago as a cardside, probably by Champ), and why I am slowly working on a thirty+ year-old Walthers car with the script lettering. And the Kahns of Cincinnati were not even relatives, or at least not so close that we could claim real kinship...
As I have long ago discovered to my chagrin, any resemblance between prototype paint and lettering and MainLine silk-screening is purely coincidental, although most of their products were attractive, even if spurious.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

I was going through my stash of old kits the other day and
found a Main Line Models kit for a billboard reefer-"King Packing Co.
Omaha" reporting mark KPCX. Would anyone have any info or pictures of
this prototype or info on the company?

Sincerely yours
Larry King
<lrkdbn@...>

_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Thanks much, Terry. Now I have the further headache that the KTM models are of a rebuilt type with Ajax (it looks like) geared brakewheels, and the vertical end braces are unlike the builders view. The side sills on the end also seem unusual in appearing to bend DOWN (most of the typical AAR type hoppers angle UP. And the endsills seem non-standard, almost like a PRR H-21, with atypical coupler pockets. I was also surprised to see Andrews trucks under a car built in 1937 (as I read the data in the view)--or actually RE-BUILT, which may explain the vertical brake staff with AB brake components.
What a revoltin' development this is! Perhaps the P&LE ones were new construction and not so non-standard?

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

I have finally gotten around to dealing with the USH panelside triple
hopper
car (unfortunately I have only an old set of Walthers decals but will

live

with them); can anyone point me toward a good view of either the NYC or
P&LE
ones (a list member several months ago having confirmed my suspicion

that

there were no others), preferably in the black scheme (I really would
prefer
not to strip and repaint)?

Photo:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-903354.jpg

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@...
www.canadasouthern.com

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Patrick Wider wrote:
"I've placed a photograph of WE tank car SHPX 17561 to the Photos
file."

Pat, thanks for sharing the builder's photo! Unfortunately, the
photos section on Yahoo Groups have several serious drawbacks:

- Photos are automatically saved and displayed as small (< 25KB)
files. Only the file owner and group moderators can view full sized
files.

- The full size file remains on the server with few able to view it,
essentially wasting group server space.

This goes for many of the files posted in the Photos section. To
allow everyone to see full sized files, I recommend the following:

- Post photo files > 25KB to the STMFC or STMFPH files section.
Thumbnails are not available, but there is no restriction on viewing
full sized files. Unfortunately, the Yahoo Groups files sections are
limited to 20MB of space, which leads me to my second recommendation:

- Avoid posting raw photo or scanner images, particularly low
resolution images. 800-1200KB files scanned at 100-150 DPI eat tons
of server space and aren't really that much more useful than a smaller
compressed image. Compress these types of images before posting to
save space.


Ben Hom

I mean CB&Q FM11. Fat fingers strike again.
Thanks again,
Tom Palmer

Howdy group,
Can anyone tell me who did the brass stake pocket castings that come with the Westrail flat car kits. I and a friend would like to replace the ones that come with the Sunshine CB&Q F 11 flats. We need to do about five or six cars.
Thanks,
Tom Palmer


Tom Palmer
remlapmot@...
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

Andy Carlson wrote:
"In HO the available PS doors have been quite crude, especially in the
over-exageration of the "hip roof" panel embossing. I have molds made
from the old Kurtz-Kraft door in 6' 7' & 8' widths, which I find still
superior to any later incarnations."

Bill Welch replied:
"I would love the 6 foot version to do a Birmingham Southern PS-1,
built I think in 1953."

Ed's tables show BS 6700-6799, P-S Lot No. 8009, built 1-52 with 6 ft
7 panel Superior doors as modeled by Kadee. Tim's attempt at humor
notwithstanding, Bill's post implies that some of these cars had the 6
ft version of the P-S proprietary door, and he's correct - on page 6
of the March 1993 issue of Railmodel Model Journal, there's a Wil
Whittaker photo of BS 6765 clearly showing a 6 ft P-S proprietary door.

The 6 ft P-S doors appear to have been rarely used - the only other
cars that used them look to be MNS 1202-1302, P-S Lot 8409, built 11-
57.


Ben Hom

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@a...> wrote:

Bill,
For photos of the WE tank cars, try Railmodel Journal, October 1990, or Kaminski's ACF

tank car book, page 131.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

All,

I've placed a photograph of WE tank car SHPX 17561 to the Photos file.

Pat Wider

List,

Here are two images of AT&SF flatcars taken from the Online Archive of
California web site. The first is of AT&SF 9290(x) taken in May of 1922
in Orange, California:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/affiliates/images/cor/kt5k4020tm/hi-res/10511375.jpg

The second image is of AT&SF 97105 (maybe 97106) also at Orange in 1922:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/affiliates/images/cor/kt5k4020tm/hi-res/10511376.jpg

Amazingly, my April, 1959 ORER shows examples of both series still in service,
though it says 92900-92999 were in pulpwood rack service by this date.

Is it safe to assume that both series looked much the same at this later date,
except for the addition of AB brakes (and racks on the 92900 series)?

Shawn Beckert

In the 1/43 and 1/53 ORER's, the KPCX reporting marks belonged to the
Koppers Company.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

I didn't record the details, but at TrainFest last weekend Accurail
announced that they were working on a 40' steel gondola of a prototype other
than Varney or Tyco.... which should be good news for you HO guys!
Charlie Vlk

Greg Smith wrote:

Just remember when it's midnight and you're wondering
why on earth you ever got involved with this, that there are many of
us out here who are truly grateful for the work you do.

Very well said, Greg. I would like to add my compliments and thanks for the site too.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Adams <steamera@n...> wrote:

Ed and others;

I'm helping Ted out and will be posting additions and changes to the
Steam Era Freight Cars web site, so feel free to send things along. It
may take a bit to get caught up, but bear with me and I'll get it

done.

This is great news. I have been wandering in Eliot's "Waste Land"
since the SEFC website ceased updating. Great source of info, photos,
and inspiration. To you, Rob, and to Ted: there is no way most of us
can repay you for the time and work you put into something like the
SEFC website. Just remember when it's midnight and you're wondering
why on earth you ever got involved with this, that there are many of
us out here who are truly grateful for the work you do.

Greg Smith

Group,
Was there such a thing as a "common" 40' steel gondola for steam era
or transition era railroads?

I'm searching for something similar to what the 1937 AAR boxcar design
was to the boxcar world. Any thoughts on gondola prototypes that saw
widespread sales? Gondola designs were usually very unique based on
the needs of each individual railroad, but I'm hoping for some
inspiration on a common prototype.

Thanks,
Andy Laurent

In a message dated 11/17/2005 6:19:15 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
shawn.beckert@... writes:

Amazingly, my April, 1959 ORER shows examples of both series still in
service, though it says 92900-92999 were in pulpwood rack service by this date.


---> Interesting that you should bring this up. I was looking through the
Signature Press book by David F. Myrick, RR's of Arizona, The Santa Fe Route,
Vol. 4 (yet again), and on page 265, there is a photo of an eastbound Santa Fe
train carrying at least one load of pulpwood behind the motive power. I
always had thought that pulpwood cars were an eastern car, not something that
would normally be found in Arizona.

But if I understand the caption correctly, loads were picked up somewhere
between Phoenix and west of Flagstaff (the location of the photo, the caption
does not state the origin of the load), and delivered to the Apache Railway in
Holbrook, Arizona. Does anyone know if the was done during the Steam era?

I did try to search info on "Arizona Pulpwood Mills" and several other
searches, but while I was able to locate the mill, I could find nothing on the
history of the mill. I plan to search more this weekend, but I thought that I
try here first, just in case someone already had this info. If this was
something that was done in the steam era, were the cars like the one cited above?

Comments (if any) should, no doubt, be concerned about the cars themselves,
rather then the loads or traffic. However, I would welcome any such
information, but please do so off list! I don't want to be sent to jail and not
collect my $200! <G> Nor do I want anyone else to either! Thanks!


Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District

In a message dated 11/17/2005 5:17:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
gsmith@... writes:

To you, Rob, and to Ted: there is no way most of us can repay you for the
time and work you put into something like the SEFC website. Just remember when
it's midnight and you're wondering why on earth you ever got involved with
this, that there are many of us out here who are truly grateful for the work
you do.


----> I heartily agree. Likewise, I truly appreciate the willingness of the
people on this list to share their knowledge with us as well! I've learned a
lot, and look forward to learning more!


Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District

Great news!!!

Bill McCoy
Jax
--- In STMFC@..., Rob Adams <steamera@n...> wrote:

Ed and others;

I'm helping Ted out and will be posting additions and changes to

the

Steam Era Freight Cars web site, so feel free to send things

along. It

may take a bit to get caught up, but bear with me and I'll get it

done.

As most of you know, Ted has his hands full right now with other

things.

Best regards, Rob Adams

Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 04:44 PM, benjaminfrank_hom

wrote:

Brian, I strongly recommend you obtain a copy of Ed Hawkins'

excellent

article in the March 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal, which

contains

an extensive table detailing original owner 40 ft PS-1s,

including

door size and types where known.

Ben and Brian,
This roster and in particular the door data has been extensively
updated since 1993. I sent the resulting roster to Ted to

include it in

the STMFC web site, but it seems he's been busy with moving and
establishing his new business, and the file not been added as

far as I

can tell. The file is Microsoft Excel - is there a way I can add

it

myself?
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@n...
Modeling Keokuk, IA operations and the CB&Q's K&W branch, circa

1938

http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com

Bill,
For photos of the WE tank cars, try Railmodel Journal, October 1990, or Kaminski's ACF tank car book, page 131.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

Hello, all

I was going through my stash of old kits the other day and
found a Main Line Models kit for a billboard reefer-"King Packing Co.
Omaha" reporting mark KPCX. Would anyone have any info or pictures of
this prototype or info on the company?

Sincerely yours
Larry King
<lrkdbn@...>

On Nov 17, 2005, at 9:28 AM, Dick Harley wrote:

On Mon Nov 14, 2005 Shawn Beckert referenced a photo with UP boxcars in mail
service :
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics45/00057025.jpg

[snip]

Looking carefully at the photo, we can see:
1. The sides are not ACR.
2. The reporting mark number could be 181xxx.
3. The side sill appears exposed above the corner step.
4. Both UP cars appear to have square corners.

I believe those characteristics all point to a class B-50-17 rebuild.

I agree; note also the lower eave height relative to the adjacent Erie 10'0" IH 78000-79199 series box car. Also, what's visible of the door matches photos of the B-50-17s. Interesting that both this car and the B--50-17 visible in the distance have fresh paint and 1939-1947 style lettering - so fresh, in fact, that the chalk lines to align the stencils were still visible.

Richard Hendrickson

Ed Mines wrote:

Using "railroad yards" as a key word I came accross some photos containing reefers. I was surprised to find a "yellow" PFE reefer and a URTX reefer assigned to MILW with a touch of orange in the yellow.

The PFE orange did indeed weather in the direction of yellow. Some years ago I was presented at Winterail with a piece of wood from one of the surviving wood-sheathed PFE cars at the Portola Rail Museum, and it sure was yellow. However, I scraped it with my thumbnail and lo! the underlying paint, unweathered, was a distinct orange.
I state this because the PFE painting statistics in the 1929-1934 period show that all cars, which had been yellow, had been painted orange following introduction of that color in 1929; there is more on this in the PFE book (page 117 for those following along in the hymnal).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history