I'll preface this by saying I am only speculating, but couldn't rail doors
also have been used to remove "waste material" from stockcars when carrying
livestock. Just a thought.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

We were traveling on Highway 18 between Brainerd and Garrison MN Sunday when I spotted a barn? made from two freight cars. The cars were orientated N/S with a large door between them and a peaked roof over the entire structure. Gable end of the roof was at the car ends. Kind of like a corn crib. I noticed the western car first, (we were heading east) it looked like a USRA double sheath. It still had it's wooden door, but had two panel Murphy end instead of three panel. The eastern car had a wooden end with outside supports. I turned my head in passing and saw that car was a stock car. Complete with door also. The whole building was appropriately paint box car red and everything looked in surprisingly good condition. I was pulling a boat so I couldn't just whip around and ask if I could take photos. Chances are I will be up that way again. I'll be better prepared next time.
Clark Propst
PS Good freight car enthusiasts know about Brainerd. Garrison is located on the NW corner of Lake Mille Lacs. It's claim to fame is having a McDonalds with only a population of between 2 and 300. Smallest town to have one.

Thanks for the reply Richard,

Looks like it is yet another freight car that is due
for a bath of scalecoat paint remover!

Brett Whelan
Melbourne
Australia.


Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 08:59:45 -0700
From: Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@...>
Subject: Re: Type 27, 8,000 gal. tank cars in UTLX?

On Jun 17, 2005, at 2:32 AM, Brett Whelan wrote:

The recent talk about type 27 tank cars has fired me
up to complete a IM Type 27, 8,000 gallon, tank

car,

"O" scale kit I have.

The model is UTLX 992

Does anybody know if this is correct?

I can't find any photos and according to the article
that was in RPC, UTLX didn't buy any new.

As stated in RPC, UTL did not purchase new AC&F Type
27s; the cars they
got from AC&F in the 1920s and '30s were all built to
UTL's own X-3
design. UTL might have acquired some Type 27s
second-hand, but if so
I've never seen any photographic evidence to that
effect, and the 1952
UTL roster doesn't include any cars that look as if
they might have
been Type 27s. In any event, the UTLX 950-1027 series
were all three
compartment cars, not 8K gal. single compartment cars.
Sorry to be the
bearer of bad tidings, but I think the model in
question is almost
certainly bogus.

Richard Hendrickson


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Does anyone know if C&IM hoppers were loaded for off-line

customers?
Geoffrey Barbier

gdbarbier@y...

Hi Jeff,
I have a Sidney Wheeler snapshot of two C&IM hoppers 6238 & 6134.
Snapshot was taken at Stewartville MN on the CGW Oct,20 1961. The cars
were to be loaded with iron ore from Ostrander MN area.
Clark Propst

Both Ilford and Agfa have still been selling B&W paper, and many darkroom guys say that Ilford is better than Kodak anyway. But both Agfa and Ilford have been struggling financially, so Kodak's decision may just be the beginning of the end.

Tony Thompson
Editor, Signature Press
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
thompson@...

Michael Watnoski wrote:

The negative can be scanned on many scanners, including some
inexpensive ones.

Let's not confuse "can be scanned" with "can be scanned well," nor with "scanned for archival storage or publication."

Tony Thompson
Editor, Signature Press
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
thompson@...

Paul LaCiura wrote:

With a little quality control you cannot tell the difference between a
traditional B&W print versus a digital photo printed on a good ink jet.

Frankly, Paul, my respectful opinion is "BS" on your opinion of quality. I'll bet I can tell with the naked eye, and a scanner can certainly tell.

Tony Thompson
Editor, Signature Press
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
thompson@...

Does anyone know if C&IM hoppers were loaded for off-line customers? I
know most of their carloads went to the dumper in Havana, IL and was
barged to utility customers, which makes me think that the cars were in
mostly captive service. Does anyone know who the C&IM served mines
around Taylorville sold their coal to, and if any of it went offline?

TIA!

Geoffrey Barbier
gdbarbier@...

Message: 2 Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 11:32:21 -0400
From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Subject: RE: Stock car end doors

. . .

----- Original Message -----
From: Rupert and Maureen
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Stock car end doors


Most of the CB&Q stock cars are shown in 1925-7 ORER's as having an upper door 2 ft x 3 ft at one end and a rail door 22 1/2 inches x 14 3/4 inches both ends.
The upper door was the same size as those on box cars, and has been referred to previously as "lumber loading". The rail door appears in diagrams to be simply a small panel sliding on rails mounted vertically on either side.
Up till 1925, almost all the stock cars were shown as having only the "lumber doors", although #64500-649999 (class SM-8 built 1907) were shown as having rail doors from the beginning.
Does anyone know what was the purpose of the rail doors? Was it perhaps for hosing out the cars after the stock had been unloaded?

Like the lumber doors used for loading and unloading long pieces of lumber into the cars (by hand, one piece at a time), Rail Doors were for loading and unloading lengths of rail. They would be located at floor level.

Neither job sounds like fun but given the cheap cost of labour in those times, allowed for more use of the stock cars.

Regards
Bill Dixon

Anyone have an unstarted one of these he would want to part with? Thanks.

John


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Jim Brewer wrote:
"I understand from a previous post on the CGW car that the P/L scheme
is the plain car with reporting marks/number, no road name or
monogram.
What is the appropriate date this scheme would have been used? I
model August 1956 and want to be certain it will fit."

It'll work for August 1956. CGW went to the "plain" boxcar scheme in
1953. The "Lucky Strike" herald didn't appear on general service
boxcars until 1956, though a group of the "X29s" were renumbered to
CGW 400-506, painted black with white lettering and lettered "System
Merchandise Service Only" and small "Lucky Strike" herald on the
right for on-line LCL service. (Photo from the pay side of the RPI
website.)
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/X29-types/X29-
CGW-490-Stewartville-MN-LCL-service-Propst.jpg


"From the LNE info that I have, it appears that the black scheme was
applied beginning in 1959. Could this have been used earlier?"

I have 1956 for the billboard "LNE" scheme - I'll check my photos
after I get home from work today.


Ben Hom

benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Tim Gilbert wrote:
"There were ... 13,642 (1.9%) B&M M-15(?) 40' Boxcars which were
quite similar to PRR's X29's."

What Tim meant to say was "13,642 (1.9%) B&O M-26 and subclasses 40'
boxcars which were quite similar to PRR's X29s."

Thanks Ben.

Tim

Tim Gilbert wrote:
"There were ... 13,642 (1.9%) B&M M-15(?) 40' Boxcars which were
quite similar to PRR's X29's."

What Tim meant to say was "13,642 (1.9%) B&O M-26 and subclasses 40'
boxcars which were quite similar to PRR's X29s."


Ben Hom

Correction to what I wrote:

(snip)

In terms of inside length, 8,905 or 3.2% of the total 732,119 were
around 36'; 648,005 or 88.5% were around 40'; 75,100 were around 50';
and 111 or less than 0.1% had inside lengths greater than 60'.

8,905 36' boxcars is only 1.2% of the Total 732,119 Boxcars listed by US Class I RR's in the 1/1953 ORER.

Tim Gilbert

matthewjstrickland wrote:

hi everyone,

I live in the UK so info here is fairly limited. I was wondering if
anyone could tell me what was the approximate make up of box cars in
1954. i. e . what percentages of the following box car types were
being used throughout the US

Ventilated box cars %?
USRA double sheathed %?
Single sheathed (Outside braced) %?
37 AAR Box %?
PS 1 box %?
x - 29 %?
other %?

Matthew,

In the January 1953 ORER, there were approximately 732,119 boxcars owned by Class I RR's in the United States.

Of these 732,119 boxcars,

671,350 or 91.6% were designated at "XM" general service boxcars;
6,270 or 0.9% were ventilated ("VM") boxcars;
960 or 0.1% were insulated "XI" boxcars;
2,402 or 0.4% were designated XME.
4,715 or 0.6% were designated XML;
14,042 or 1.9% were designated XAP;
1,719 or 0.2% were designated XMP;
8,091 or 1.1% were designated XAR;
23,420 or 3.2% were designated XMR.

In terms of inside length, 8,905 or 3.2% of the total 732,119 were around 36'; 648,005 or 88.5% were around 40'; 75,100 were around 50'; and 111 or less than 0.1% had inside lengths greater than 60'.

In terms of construction on December 31st, 1952, 568,358 which was 77.5% of 732,701 boxcars were had steel sheathing while the remaining 164,353 (22.5%) had steel underframes, but whose sheathing was either all-wood (double) or composite (single) .

There were 23,549 PRR X29's listed in the 1/1953 ORER (3.2% of the total 732,119 boxcars); 17,451 (2.4%) NYC 40' Boxcars having 2,955' of cubic capacity; and 13,642 (1.9%) B&M M-15(?) 40' Boxcars which were quite similar to PRR's X29's.

While not answering many of your questions, I hope this still helps you.


Tim Gilbert

hi everyone,

I live in the UK so info here is fairly limited. I was wondering if
anyone could tell me what was the approximate make up of box cars in
1954. i. e . what percentages of the following box car types were
being used throughout the US

Ventilated box cars %?
USRA double sheathed %?
Single sheathed (Outside braced) %?
37 AAR Box %?
PS 1 box %?
x - 29 %?
other %?


thanks for all your help

MATT

hi everyone,

I live in the UK so info here is fairly limited. I was wondering if
anyone could tell me what was the approximate make up of box cars in
1954. i. e . what percentages of the following box car types were
being used throughout the US

Ventilated box cars %?
USRA double sheathed %?
Single sheathed (Outside braced) %?
37 AAR Box %?
PS 1 box %?
x - 29 %?
other %?


thanks for all your help

MATT

Scott:

Scott is right about petroleum bulk plants. In this area (Midwest) LP
gas was (and is) used mostly for home heating. When the LP gas
retailers started out they competed with the fuel oil retailers
(jobbers) for that home heating business and it was unusual for the same
retailer to sell both.

Over the years fuel oil has lost out to LP gas (this segment of OUR
business declines approximately 7% per year) and some fuel oil sellers
have since entered into the LP gas business to offset the decline. But
that is now and we are interested in "back when."

Larry's comment about grain drying in the EARLY 1950's is interesting.
Around here the gain dryers for corn and soy beans were installed in the
late 1950's or early 1960's. Possibly the larger gain processing
facilities started earlier.

Interestingly farm tractor manufacturers John Deere, International,
Minneapolis-Moline, and others flirted with propane powered tractors
during the late 1950's and into the early 1960's. I didn't catch on
around here.

Mont Switzer

Steve

Thanks for this reference. I've seen other stock car photos with similar upper doors that ran sideways on a rail. However, the ORER's (over a 20 year period) stated "Upper door 2 ft x 3 ft at one end; rail door 22 1/2 inches x 14 3/4 inches both ends". Looking at the diagrams and photos, it is apparent that the lower "rail" door ran between the two end vertical posts which were typically 24 inches apart, corresponding with the measurements given, but little clue as to their purpose.

The mention of the "lumber" door was meant to relate to doors of the same size and location on box cars of the same period - the "and" should have been a "that"!

Do you know if there is a stock car list?

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

While looking up information on the LNE X29 style cars, I came across a
photo of DL&W 47180 in the April 1987 issue Model Railroading. According to
the caption the DL&W had 1000 cars, 47000-47999, of USRA style 40' box cars.
My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends? They look similar, however, Al Westerfield
doesn't offer his 2900 series NYC model with DL&W decals, so I imagine there
are differences.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY