--- In STMFC@..., "drgw_dave2" <nzntrains@y...> wrote:

Sorry posted to wrong group list [was STMFPH Steam Era Frt Car Group
Photos]
hi,
could someone please explain the significance of this car and some

of

the other photos that were uploaded earlier on the existence of the
group. They are nice historical records however few descriptions/
details have been given of them.

I've purposely selected a small variety of mid-western roads cars
[like this type Wabash, Frisco, CBQ etc.] for use on my little
[non-authentic modelled N scale] D&RGW branchline of the 40s and

50s.

Dave,

Wabash 47194 was one of 1000 cars numbered in the 47000-47999 series
built in 1927. The first 500 cars were built by the Standard Steel
Car Co. and the latter 500 by AC&F. The cars were used mainly in
automoblile and automobile parts service. By the mid 1950's many of
these cars were used for rough freight loading such as brick, and
they also were used during that time in merchandise (lcl) service.
The Wabash had over 5000 of these cars with some variations such as
different size door openings, wood or steel doors, and Murphy or
dreadnaught ends. They tend to show up in many train consist photos.

Chet French
Dixon,IL

--- Mr. Turpin wrote:

What were class designations and types of the hoppers that carried
sand, slate and kyanite in revenue service on the ACL, N &W , C &

0, PRR , B & 0, Seaboard , Southern in the l948 -1954 era.

=================================================


Keep in mind that many sand shipments were done using box cars with
the sand piled loose on the floor and possibly a 2x12 dam across the
doorways. Many smaller glass factories in West Virginia and
Pennsylvania received bulk sand shipped in boxcars and hand unloaded
into the material bins at the glass factory.

One of our club members worked for a glass factory in the mid-1960's
in Weston, W. Va., and he has recounted several stories of unloading
a box car of sand with a shovel and wheelbarrow.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.

Marty,
Source for decals?
Pierre Oliver

Tom Madden wrote:

To stay with the railroad theme, here in Colorado old-time railroaders
still talk of the "RYE-oh Grand" (Rio Grande) railroad . . .

And in the 1950s, the D&RGW ads in general-circulation magazines emphasized exactly this pronunciation, spelled out as Tom has spelled it. Guess they didn't want any suspicion that they were "soft" on Hispanic culture.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

OK, guys,
I think we've wasted enough space on pronunciation. I suppose if this group were verbal rather than written, it might be more appropriate. Anyhow, unless you want to discuss how to pronounce X29 or B-50-21, it's time to get back to frt cars. Thanks.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

"Jon Miller" wrote:
"It's very common, for a manufacture who makes kits to sell them to
another manufacture who then sends them to China for printing and
assemble thus creating RTR cars which they sell under their label."

How times have changed... Five years ago this was not common at all.
The Tichy kits originally appeared over 25+ years ago before they
re-appeared as RTR from China under a different label.

Bob Witt

If anyone hasn't already answered this:

Paint the car CN Freight Car Red #11, which is available from both
Modelflex and Scalecoat

-- Scalecoat paints available from the CN SIG or Des Plaines Hobbies.

To make this more confusing, the panel arrangement on the sides of
the Tichy car do not necessarily match those of the CV/GTW cars --
Stafford Swain did an article on this conversion for CN Lines years
ago using the Tichy car (all that was available at the time). As I
recall, he spliced two of the Tichy cars together.

I've done the same project for some CV cars -- one of these days I'll
use one of Stan's kits as the starting point for the CV car that had
some blister panels and some flat ones.

I know that's the ONE CV car Richard H. knows about . . .

Marty

Mr. Turpin wrote:

What were class designations and types of the hoppers that carried
sand, slate and kyanite in revenue service on the ACL, N &W , C &
0, PRR , B & 0, Seaboard , Southern in the l948 -1954 era.

Bulk materials with densities greater than coal typically would be
carried in twin hoppers. For the B&O, since they had so many AAR
off-set side twin hoppers, those would be the ones seen. Photographs
and movie records confirm this. These would be B&O classes N-35,
N-35a, N-41, and N-44. Materials carried also included iron ore from
the Great Lake ports. Dense materials like ore and sand did not fill
the hoppers before they reached their load limit so in photos they
appear empty. One needs to look for compressed springs to determine
if they are loaded.

Before WWII the class N-12 was the major hopper in their fleet so
those would be the ones seen, but there is little photographic
evidence to confirm this. The N-12s were standard all-steel, twin
hoppers (6 or 8 panels depending how you count them with 7 outside
stakes) built to a B&O design.

Bob Witt

The two middle panels are wider than they should be, for some reason. And the kit doesn't fit together quite as well as previous Tichy kits.
But I still entertain the thought of making one into a C&O ballast car, which has steeper slope sheets and therefore a rather small end panel. Seems like it should be easier to modify than the Accurail one-piece body, and I'm pretty sure the sides and ends are thinner on the Tichy.
Scott Pitzer
===========

Did I miss something before I joined the list re the Tichy USRA
hoppers? Do they have any problems or inaccuracies? I realize they
only come undec (my favorite road) but do have wire grabs and brake
rigging.

Jerry Glow

Paul,

Ted Culotta displayed some fine decals for these cars at Collinsville Ct. last weekend. He is in the process of a major moving event, so give it a couple weeks before you order. Hopefully this is right: www.speedswitch.com; and the answer will appear!

Fred Freitas

Sorry posted to wrong group list [was STMFPH Steam Era Frt Car Group
Photos]
hi,
could someone please explain the significance of this car and some of
the other photos that were uploaded earlier on the existence of the
group. They are nice historical records however few descriptions/
details have been given of them.

I've purposely selected a small variety of mid-western roads cars
[like this type Wabash, Frisco, CBQ etc.] for use on my little
[non-authentic modelled N scale] D&RGW branchline of the 40s and 50s.

Regards,
dave

Thanks to everyone who has contributed info to this discussion today. After work I spent the evening helping a friend roof his house, so was not able to get back to this thread. But just to comment on some of Tim's observations/suggestions, here is a little of the general traffic info that I have on obvious tank car traffic - cross border and within Canada:

In 1935, Canadian DBS records show:

- 441,138 tons of Crude petroleum received from outside Canada connections. Since this was rail transport, that would be from USA connections, I believe. That's 94% of the crude moved in Canada.

- Asphalt was different, with only 19,962 tons, or 9% received from the USA.

- 148,910 tons of Gasoline was received from the United States - about 11% of the Canadian tonnage.
- Other petroleum products amounted to 166510 tons, or 19%.

Its hard to pick out other tank car commodities from these statistics. Sugar and liquor may be partly represented by tank car traffic, but I would think most of it moved in other ways. Chlorine is not mentioned at all so must be included in the miscellaneous/other category.

By 1953, the same commodities show as follows:
Crude petroleum - 18,074 tons, or 3% of tonnage was from the USA.
Asphalt - 33,154 tons, or about 5%
Gasoline - 159,628 tons, or about 4%
Other Petroleum Products - 638,697 tons, or about 16%

Obviously, a lot changed in the Canadian domestic crude and refined petroleum situation over the course of 18 years! No doubt the war years drove development at a significant pace, although that is something I need to research further. But this shift in traffic will have impacted the need for tank cars from the USA. Whether that shift occurred after the post war car shortages, or earlier, is still something I have to find out. Another factor to consider is the role of pipeline traffic - I'm not sure when the first of these was established up here - either cross border or within the country.

Also in 1953, another DBS report indicates that of all crude moving in Canada, about 7,408 tons, or 1% was moving from the USA to the USA. Only 7962 tons were delivered to the USA in total, so most of it was this traffic moving through Canada between USA points. With respect to Asphalt, 23,369 tons (4% of all asphalt moved in Canada) were received from the USA and delivered to the USA. Of all Asphalt moved in Canada, including domestic production, only 24,084 tons were delivered to USA connections. 64,178 tons of Gasoline was received from the USA and destined for the USA (about 2% of all gasoline moved in Canada); 68,294 tons in total were delivered to the USA. 201,365 tons of other petroleum products were received from and delivered to the USA (6% of total Canadian traffic); in total 220,435 tons were delivered from Canada to the USA.

So, at least for these products, there was not much call for Canadian tank cars to be moving south of the 49th parallel. The movement of USA cars into Canada was more significant, but still only a small part of domestic traffic.

Of further interest, the movement of Crude in Canada in 1953 was strictly regional according to the Waybill analysis for the year. All traffic is from western Canada to western Canada, and from eastern Canada to eastern Canada. In addition to moves with each region, Asphalt moved from eastern Canada to the Maritimes, from Eastern Canada to the Superior region, and from eastern Canada into western Canada. Gasoline moved from the Maritimes to eastern Canada and vice versa, eastern Canada to western Canada, and from the Superior region into eastern Canada. Other petroleum products moved from in similar patterns. In nearly all cases, however, the vast majority of the moves were within a given region.

This is of course only the start of researching tank traffic in Canada. Not sure when I'll get into more info.

Rob Kirkham

Does anyone know if Rib Side Cars is going to produce any of the other
variations of the MILW ribside car, or has the venture gone the way of
the Dodo ?

Ian Clasper

Having two projects there, I've been spending a lot of time in Worcester. The natives actually say
it differently than any of the pronunciation guides provided thus fah. Err, far. You have to wrap
Wuss . . . with Woo . . . And end with "sta." Sort of "Woousta" with a rising inflection at the
"ous" part.

The really hard part, for a person afflicted with Spoonerism as I am, is that one of these projects
involves both Worcester, and Westboro, and I'm constantly talking about Westah, and Wooustboro . . .
8^/

SGL

Ben-
Were all the Lindberg cars actually released? IIRC no. The
steel-resheathed composite hopper was only released in a small run as a
kit...(before Manchewa got the tooling) and I don't recall ever hearing
about the tank car, box car, and flat. I think the reefer did make it to
market.
Charlie Vlk

Charlie Vlk wrote:
"Model Power also has a line, newly tooled although for what reason not
readily apparent, of all-metal cars which are diecast metal and are
incredibly heavy. Too heavy. From top to bottom. In details. In weight.
It is different from the Mantua Heavies Line. I am not sure any new
production has been done under Model Power from the Mantua/Lindberg tooling.
I could not find what Model Power calls their metal line on the website..."

The Lindberg hopper, tank car, and caboose have been re-released by Model
Power:
http://www.modelpower.com/site/519087/product/729620
http://www.modelpower.com/site/519087/product/732307
http://www.modelpower.com/site/519087/product/726008

Here's a summary of the Lindberg railroad line from a kit box posted on the
pay side of the RPI website:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Kits/Lindberg-kit-box.jpg

The Model Power metal line is called ... "MetalTrain"!
http://www.modelpower.com/site/519087/page/286766

This has to be the most embarrassing model out of the whole bunch. If you
were wondering, PRR 5911 is really an EMC SW, the first "off-the-shelf"
diesel purchased by the Pennsy in 1937.
http://www.modelpower.com/site/519087/product/2214


Ben Hom

Bob Witt wrote:
"The B&O version has the classification for a box car and the lettering type
face is totally incorrect."
and
"For the B&O version the lettering is still poorly done. The type face,
spacing, layout and of course the class are just not correct."

I've uploaded a prototype-model side-by-side to STMFPH at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Side-by-Side/
Select "B&O USRA Twin Hopper Side-by-Side.JPG"


Ben Hom