On Apr 28, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Jim Betz wrote:

1) When were the first covered hoppers and what service
were they in?
I know they first started showing up on the GN in
'48 and were in cement service. Grain hoppers started
showing up fairly soon after.

The first conversions of existing coal hoppers by railroads (PRR and DL&W) were in 1931, according to Jerry Dziedzic's excellent research on the cement industry.

2) Does anybody have any pics of the "GE LAMPS" cars in
service? (Black cars with white lettering built by
ACF in 10-46 if you can trust the markings on the Kato
cars.)

I believe that there was a photo of one of these cars in Ed Hawkins' series of articles about these cars in RMJ, many years ago. Consult the model railroad magazine index. Even though it will anger ben Hom to post it yet one more time, the link is:
http://www.index.mrmag.com/

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912

Ed Mines wrote:

Could someone familiar with the current state of this technology send
in a little summary?

It's history.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., "Edwin C. Kirstatter"
<Q1xaMacArthur1@j...> wrote:

Have any of you ever sat on a flatcar deck? Or really looked at

one! I guess not!

I don't normally rise to this kind of bait, but I found this
particular opening unnecessarily inflammatory and insulting to a group
with a bazillion collective years of studying freight cars.... It
would not be worth a response if it were not followed with...

The wood used on flat cars decks were treated with Creosote just as

are wood ties on the track. Look at them.

Which is about as sweeping a statement as I have seen on this list and
one so spectacularly wrong. But I suppose Ed will point us to all of
the relevant specs of all the railroads to confirm his assertion.

Bill McClure

The NKP got covered hoppers in 1936, IIRC. I can't seem to locate my
documentation right now, of course, but I think they were in Kaolin
service. These were probably NOT the FIRST, but were the earliest I
know of off hand.
Dean Payne

Hi Shawn,

Each of the Shippers Guides I have reprinted has a section listing grain elevators for each railroad.

My most recent guide is from the Rock Island for 1941. This book is 142 pages and spiral bound to open flat for easy use. It joins the following titles:

Milwaukee 1943
Union Pacific 1938
Chicago & Eastern Illinois 1950
Chicago & North Western 1923
Chicago Switching District 1956
Milwaukee reciprocal switching 1978
Rock Island 1941

Please contact me off list for any of these books>

Ted

At 01:40 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote:

List,

Do any of you living in the midwest and southern states recall
seeing a published directory of grain elevators, either national
or regional?
Shawn Beckert

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://users.foxvalley.net/~railsunl/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 3% added).


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On Apr 28, 2005, at 1:07 PM, eabracher@... wrote:

In a message dated 4/28/05 1:01:00 PM, b.hom@... writes:

(available in photoetched brass from Free State Systems). 

who might they be? Address?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/freest/carcut-
rtecrdmain.html

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912

1) When were the first covered hoppers and what service
were they in?
I know they first started showing up on the GN in
'48 and were in cement service. Grain hoppers started
showing up fairly soon after.

2) Does anybody have any pics of the "GE LAMPS" cars in
service? (Black cars with white lettering built by
ACF in 10-46 if you can trust the markings on the Kato
cars.)

THANK YOU Charlie, It now all makes sense, excrpt Richard H's Sk-R model on
the back of the Warbonnet with toe holes. I am sure I will get that answer in
short order!
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

My historical refs have it that AB brakes were required
on all -new- cars in 1933 (don't have a more specific date
but perhaps it was Jan. 1?) and that K brakes were banned
from interchange service on Jan. 1, 1954.

Dean Payne asked:
"I just ordered CCC&St.L decals from Westerfield to letter an ERTL USRA
box that has the incorrect CB&Q paint scheme. Is this paint any
different to strip than others? (Each mfgr. seems to differ...)"

No better or worse than others in my experience.


"Any other corrections for this model (besides replacing all the grabs
with .010 wire, I dunno if it's worth it...)"

That's the first one that comes to mind. I recommend back-dating the
brake system from the AB system on the model to the original KC
system. See the Westerfield website for photos showing the brake
arrangement. Additionally, you might want to add Carmer cut levers
(available in photoetched brass from Free State Systems). See Mont
Switzer's article in the February 2002 issue of Mainline Modeler for
more suggestions on improving the Ertl model.


"When I paint it, I should be finished with my Tichy PMcK&Y box. Both
cars are NYC roads. I will paint them using PollyScale or other
acrylic. Ted painted his P&LE box with a mixture of Floquil Boxcar and
Oxide reds...same for PollyScale?"

Not all Floquil and Polly Scale paint colors having the same name are
equal. I'd do a test mix first to see if you're happy with the results
before you put it on the model.

"Timescale is the mid-late 30's, if that has any bearing on the color
they used (I guess the Big Four box would have been painted earlier,
while the PMcK&Y will be almost new...)"

FWIW, the Big 4 cars were renumbered into NYC number series in 1936.


Ben Hom

I just ordered CCC&St.L decals from Westerfield to letter an ERTL USRA
box that has the incorrect CB&Q paint scheme. Is this paint any
different to strip than others? (Each mfgr. seems to differ...) I
will be replacing the poor-rolling trucks with correct Accurail
Andrews. Any other corrections for this model (besides replacing all
the grabs with .010 wire, I dunno if it's worth it...)
When I paint it, I should be finished with my Tichy PMcK&Y box. Both
cars are NYC roads. I will paint them using PolyScale or other
acrylic. Ted painted his P&LE box with a mixture of Floquil Boxcar and
Oxide reds... same for PolyScale? Timescale is the mid-late 30's, if
that has any bearing on the color they used (I guess the Big Four box
would have been painted earlier, while the PMcK&Y will be almost new...)
Dean Payne

Andy Miller wrote:

Why did RRs go from the one piece K brake to the two piece AB? It
seems to me that having it all in one piece minimized the labor
required to install the brakes. As labor costs rose, I would have
guessed that the RRs would prefer to go the other way.

Were there sufficient failures of the brake cylinder (or reservoir)
that it paid to be able to replace one without the other? Or was
there another reason?

Andy,
You are barking up the wrong tree here. The reason had nothing to do with the number of separate parts nor the failure rate of specific parts. The K brake was disallowed because it did not control braking well enough as train length and weight increased (it was technologically out of date). Several systems competed for approval and eventually what we know as the AB system won out.

Also, I would hardly call the K brake "one piece". Yes, the cylinder was often bolted to the reservoir, however they were separate parts. Remember too that the K brake was often separated into cylinder and reservoir components such as the split KD system used by many PRR cars.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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I use a color laser printer, Minlota, and get around the white problem two ways depending on my project. I print on whit decal paper sometimes or I put white on the model where my clear "hole" in the decal will be. The most difficult thing to do is a lot of white lettering of course and this is what most cars have! Working in N Scale has the plus that I don't have as much area to deal with. I am toying with the idea of "painting" a car with a car color decal with all the lettering clear and applying on a white body. The laser decals need a top coating when done, I use Testor's Gloss.

Jon Miller <atsf@...> wrote:>also as far as using an ink jet printer to do decals, the inks that are
used are water soluable<
OK, trying to make this an easy question. Given I have an Alps printer,
given a laser printer can't do white, given a laser printer can use almost
any paper.
Has anyone done decals using a color laser printer. Reason I ask is
they are quite cheap now as are the refills (page count vs ink jet) and I
figured there are quite a few at peoples homes!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS






Yahoo! Groups Links










George Hollwedel
Prototype N Scale Models
georgeloop@...
310 Loma Verde Street
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883
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also as far as using an ink jet printer to do decals, the inks that are

used are water soluable<
OK, trying to make this an easy question. Given I have an Alps printer,
given a laser printer can't do white, given a laser printer can use almost
any paper.
Has anyone done decals using a color laser printer. Reason I ask is
they are quite cheap now as are the refills (page count vs ink jet) and I
figured there are quite a few at peoples homes!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Charlie Vlk says:

What is the point of the public whippings????

Of course there are "public whippings and "public whippings". The STMFC is not the place for just beating up on a manufacturer. OTOH, it IS the place to scrutinize a manufacturer's product...pro and con. It is a waste of time and energy and even out of scope to bludgeon a manufacturer. If a product has...in the view of a member...a problem, it should be so indicated. If it has pluses, it also should be so indicated. At the same time it does not follow that the manufacturer should be stoned for perceived errors...at least not on the STMFC. There is a difference. So, yes, point out errors and, as well, good stuff and even solutions. A primary task of the STMFC is to provide a service to members...help them to be aware of issues with a product so they might have the chance to "fix" it. The group also has the task of guiding members in helping them find "accurate" models that they might seek. To add to that, the group should be a source...at least the members should be...for manufacturers to find information to assist in the production of better and more accurate models. It is difficult for that to happen in a negative environment.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

Hi Paul,

If that's the question, here's the answer: The kit with the Ajax hand brake, toe holes, and long grab iron is correct for an Sk-U just as it comes.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@...

FYI, there is a yahoo group for the use of ALPS printers as well as
model railroad decals; alps and rr-decals. also as far as using an ink
jet printer to do decals, the inks that are used are water soluable. i
have had disasters by the solvaset under the decal disolving the film
and causing the ink to bleed. better off with the alps system that
does not use the ink jet system. most of the "basement bombers" who
produce small runs of decals are using alps or a much more expensive
kodak system.

woody grosdoff

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the response and confirming that reworking the end grab and using a staff hand brake will result in a Sk-R. However, my basic question seems to still not be coming through, so I will try one more time to state it as clearly as I can. Question: Are new Santa Fe Intermountain stock car kits right out of the box DEAD ON accurate for any Sk series car? If the answer is YES, would someone please provide me with which kit matches which prototype car. If the answer is NO as I suspect, and you have to use prototype photos and do minor kit bashing to get an accurate model that is fine, I just want to understand. My confusion stems from the fact that I thought Intermountain was originally going to make one kit for each Sk class car similiar to Sunshine(total of 5). I suspect Richard Hendrickson or Charlie Slater probably have the answer to my question and can clear up the confusion.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

Tim,

I realize the decision was the ICC's, not the RRs'. My question is really
directed to the reasoning, not the authority. Sorry to have confused you.


regards,

Andy Miller

Ed-
I am working with Hubert Mask on his Mask Island decal projects using an
ALPS printer....
The ALPS is a heat transfer tape technology machine and can print white,
metalics, and other colors.
It does an excellent job for black, white, and other pure colors that are on
the tape cartridges. Specific blended colors can come out
"dithered" (like a printed magazine picture under magnification.....dots)
but in general the results are acceptable.
The ALPS machines are no longer available new but can be had on the used
market. The machines are tempermental and used ones often have to be sent
back to ALPS for warranty replacement ($350???). Kodak sells essentially
the same machines new for big bucks if money is
no object.
The supplies for ALPS machines are expensive..... a discount white cartridge
is around $8 and it is used like a typewriter tape and you don't get full
use of the medium.....depends on how the printing is aligned on the page and
how dense it is. The machine normally uses black, magenta, cyan, and yellow
cartridges. You have to replace the black with a white to print white and
have the "white" on a separate layer on your artwork to print "black" using
the white cartridge.
I've looked into seeing if inkjet cartridges can be reloaded with white ink
but so far no commercial cartridge reloading company has responded to my
inquiries. Apparently there is not a large need for printing in white in
the marketplace. If cartridges would work with a white ink, dedicated
inkjet machine could be then used to print white on decals (because of the
inkjet process it would have to be a separate machine as the cartridge site
would be contaminated switching cartridges) .
Charlie Vlk
Rairlroad Model Resources

PS- For those of you who know Hubert, he underwent heart surgery this week.
He is doing well and.should be home next week