Date   

Re: Freight car Type designations

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

While on the subject, is ax XMLI the same as a RBL?

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: ron.merrick@... [mailto:ron.merrick@...]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:34 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight car Type designations


All the discussion on this thread has been about car 'classes'.
To me, car 'type' refers to the AAR designations, such as XM and RB and
HT
and so on. <snip>


Universal Boxcars

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Eldon, your comments tend to place the "seas of x29's" to the late 50's and early 60's - I assume partly because that's when you had the good fortune to crawl over them. Is there any basis to assume the practice started earler - the late 40's to be precise. What I am thinking is that the box car shortage at that time would have justified putting even fairly decrepit cars in service.

Comments?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Universal Boxcars

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Tim;
Thanks for the added info.

As to the last point, I can only say that in the 60's, there was a sea
of dead X29s and H21s in yards all over the PRR. There were lesser
numbers of X31s there, too. This is evidenced by the drastic drop in
numbers over the late 50's-60's, with offsetting of numbers after about
'59 due to the new car orders taking place.

There is photographic evidence of this, but my memories of crawling all
over old equipment, getting splinters from decayed roofwalks, getting
asphalt on my pants knees, and then having to go home and take it from
my Mom brings it back pretty vividly.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert [mailto:tgilbert@...]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Universal Boxcars


Rob Kirkham wrote:

This is very useful info Tim - thanks for posting it. I have not seen
anything quite like it in the past. Do the larger classes of CPR and
CNR cars simply not make the 1% threshhold, or did you stick to USA
cars only?
Thanks for the compliments. Sorry for you and other Canadians, USA Cars
only.


I would like to see a matching list of the models that work for each
of these cars. I'm not asking anyone to do it, of course, but it
would be good to have. Its something I will probably work on
(slowly).

I should leave what the matching models are to others more proficient
than I. But Red Caboose does have models of the PRR X29 and B&O M26.
Westerfield, I know, has models for the NYC System 40' 2,955 CF boxcars
and SOU's 36 footer. Bowser produces models of PRR's X31, but some feel
that they are not good ones. Intermountain-Tichy produces the PRR's X26
in RTR form. I don't know which of the SP/T&NO's or SOU's 10' Inside
Height Boxcars are replicated by the sundry models makers of the 1937
Design - again, more expert advice is necessary.


With respect to the older classes of cars in the list, I wonder if all
the PRR car classes named were functionally as large as the numbers
listed in the ORER. I have a vague undersanding of the PRR having a
lot of cars in storage. Not sure when that was, nor whether the
stored cars tend to be a particular class.
Good point although there is no supporting data to ascertain how many
cars in the older classes were on the dead (or dying) lines.

Take Care, Tim Gilbert





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Freight car Type designations

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tim,

A couple of corrections to your otherwise sage post on the reefers.

In R-30-12, etc., the "30" stands for tons, not length. You said it both ways. Except for a few special large cars, nearly all steam-era PFE reefers were 33' inside, with a nominal 40' outside length.

As for the WP reefers, they wer NOT supplied by PFE. They were owned by the WP as their proportionate membership share (2,275 cars), but were operated as an integral part of the PFE fleet. This included servicing and rebuilding by PFE, though the bills ended up on WP desks. There was no special assignment to WP rails either, and finding one on WP track was pretty rare if the lack of photos is any indication.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Tim Gilbert wrote:

drgw_dave2 wrote:


hi,
In researching car types for WP, D&RGW, CBQ and others I've frequently
come across designations such as 'R-30-12 or R-30-13'.

Woud someone please elaborate on this nomenclature and if possible
provide web references for further reading. Unfortunately I do not
have access to books or magazines that may provide answers.

Dave,

The R-30-12 or 13 appear to be PFE designations. They are thoroughly covered in Signature Press' PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS by Thompson, Church and Jones. Copies of the book are available from Signature Press. Their order page is http://www.signaturepress.com/order.html

In the meantime, "R" stands for Reefer, "30" stands for 30 tons nominal capacity and "12" or "13" represents the 12th or 13th design of a 30 foot reefer. Reefers on the WP were supplied by PFE; CB&Q's was BREX; and I don't know off hand who supplied reefers to the DRG&W.

Tim Gilbert


CB&Q GS-1 and 2 train-line

Tom Lawler <tjlawler@...>
 

Since no one had suggestions on where the train-line runs on the CB&Q
rebuilt GS-1 and 2 drop bottom gons maybe I should pose a more general
question.

In general, where would the train-line run on a drop bottom gon where the
doors open towards the sides of the car (hinged towards the center sill)? I
have looked at my two CBC's and found no detailed drawings of the bottoms of
the drop-bottom cars that show the train-line. My best guess would be that
the train-line ran inside the center sill. Anywhere else it seems like it
would interfere with the doors or door mechanisms.

Thank you for any assistance.

Tom


Re: Freight car Type designations

Bob Webber <zephyr1@...>
 

At 08:33 AM 3/4/2005, you wrote:

All the discussion on this thread has been about car 'classes'.
To me, car 'type' refers to the AAR designations, such as XM and RB and HT
and so on.

http://www.nakina.net/aartype.html


Re: Freight car Type designations

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

ron.merrick@... wrote:

All the discussion on this thread has been about car 'classes'.
To me, car 'type' refers to the AAR designations, such as XM and RB and HT
and so on. Since maybe10 to 20% of interchanged cars in this era had
class designations, maybe we'd be better off using the AAR designation for
high-level statistical purposes such as these since they were uniform
(although not always painted on the car side or always painted in
consistent places, despite AAR recommendations).
I'm also aware that even the AAR designations are not that well known to a
lot of modelers. But every ORER during this era had the definitions and
the mechanical description of what distinguished one type from another.
As an example of current-day use, look at rr-fallenflags.com and see how
virtually all freight car images are identified by car classification.
Ron,

I agree somewhat with you that the AAR Mechanical Designations may be more important in comparing cars between railroads than the use of individual railroad's class designations. Indeed, for most of my analyses of car use, I only use the first digit of the Mechanical Designation - e.g. "X" for boxcars; "T" for tanks; "R" for reefers; etc..

Still, as long as people use designations like X29, R-30-12; etc., we the public are somewhat obligated to understand. An individual RR's Class System can be often times more descriptive than the Mechanical Designation providing that the code for such classification can be easily broken. But I put my foot down on the NYC's Lot system which I have almost no urge to break that code down into something I can use and understand.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Freight car Type designations

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Mar 4, 2005, at 8:33 AM, ron.merrick@... wrote:

All the discussion on this thread has been about car 'classes'.
To me, car 'type' refers to the AAR designations, such as XM and RB
and HT
and so on.  Since maybe10 to 20% of interchanged cars in this era had
class designations, maybe we'd be better off using the AAR
designation for
high-level statistical purposes such as these since they were uniform
(although not always painted on the car side or always painted in
consistent places, despite AAR recommendations).
Ron,

For the purposes of determining the distribution of specific cars
within a road's fleet, this information is not helpful. I think we've
gone beyond the question of what percent of the fleet was B&O, and are
now asking, if I need 6 B&O cars, what were the percentages of
different "classes" of cars within that fleet?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Freight car Type designations

mopacfirst
 

All the discussion on this thread has been about car 'classes'.
To me, car 'type' refers to the AAR designations, such as XM and RB and HT
and so on. Since maybe10 to 20% of interchanged cars in this era had
class designations, maybe we'd be better off using the AAR designation for
high-level statistical purposes such as these since they were uniform
(although not always painted on the car side or always painted in
consistent places, despite AAR recommendations).
I'm also aware that even the AAR designations are not that well known to a
lot of modelers. But every ORER during this era had the definitions and
the mechanical description of what distinguished one type from another.
As an example of current-day use, look at rr-fallenflags.com and see how
virtually all freight car images are identified by car classification.

Ron Merrick

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Re: Freight car Type designations

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Mar 4, 2005, at 7:55 AM, Tim Gilbert wrote:
CB&Q's was BREX;
Aka Burlington Refrigerator Express, like sister companies Fruit Growers Express (FGEX) and Western Fruit Express (WFEX), had no car class "system", making them just about (but not quite as bad) as the New York Central to figure out!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Freight car Type designations

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

drgw_dave2 wrote:


hi,
In researching car types for WP, D&RGW, CBQ and others I've frequently
come across designations such as 'R-30-12 or R-30-13'.

Woud someone please elaborate on this nomenclature and if possible
provide web references for further reading. Unfortunately I do not
have access to books or magazines that may provide answers.
Dave,

The R-30-12 or 13 appear to be PFE designations. They are thoroughly covered in Signature Press' PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS by Thompson, Church and Jones. Copies of the book are available from Signature Press. Their order page is http://www.signaturepress.com/order.html

In the meantime, "R" stands for Reefer, "30" stands for 30 tons nominal capacity and "12" or "13" represents the 12th or 13th design of a 30 foot reefer. Reefers on the WP were supplied by PFE; CB&Q's was BREX; and I don't know off hand who supplied reefers to the DRG&W.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Universal Boxcars

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

This is very useful info Tim - thanks for posting it. I have not seen anything quite like it in the past. Do the larger classes of CPR and CNR cars simply not make the 1% threshhold, or did you stick to USA cars only?
Thanks for the compliments. Sorry for you and other Canadians, USA Cars only.


I would like to see a matching list of the models that work for each of these cars. I'm not asking anyone to do it, of course, but it would be good to have. Its something I will probably work on (slowly).
I should leave what the matching models are to others more proficient than I. But Red Caboose does have models of the PRR X29 and B&O M26. Westerfield, I know, has models for the NYC System 40' 2,955 CF boxcars and SOU's 36 footer. Bowser produces models of PRR's X31, but some feel that they are not good ones. Intermountain-Tichy produces the PRR's X26 in RTR form. I don't know which of the SP/T&NO's or SOU's 10' Inside Height Boxcars are replicated by the sundry models makers of the 1937 Design - again, more expert advice is necessary.


With respect to the older classes of cars in the list, I wonder if all the PRR car classes named were functionally as large as the numbers listed in the ORER. I have a vague undersanding of the PRR having a lot of cars in storage. Not sure when that was, nor whether the stored cars tend to be a particular class.
Good point although there is no supporting data to ascertain how many cars in the older classes were on the dead (or dying) lines.

Take Care, Tim Gilbert


Freight car Type designations

dave w
 

hi,
In researching car types for WP, D&RGW, CBQ and others I've frequently
come across designations such as 'R-30-12 or R-30-13'.

Woud someone please elaborate on this nomenclature and if possible
provide web references for further reading. Unfortunately I do not
have access to books or magazines that may provide answers.

Thanks, dave


Universal Boxcars

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

This is very useful info Tim - thanks for posting it. I have not seen anything quite like it in the past. Do the larger classes of CPR and CNR cars simply not make the 1% threshhold, or did you stick to USA cars only?

I would like to see a matching list of the models that work for each of these cars. I'm not asking anyone to do it, of course, but it would be good to have. Its something I will probably work on (slowly).

With respect to the older classes of cars in the list, I wonder if all the PRR car classes named were functionally as large as the numbers listed in the ORER. I have a vague undersanding of the PRR having a lot of cars in storage. Not sure when that was, nor whether the stored cars tend to be a particular class.

Rob Kirkham


Re: accurail single sheathed boxcar

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Justin Turpin wrote:
"I bought a nicely detailed and easy to fix with a few small pieces
added (so I thought) Accurail HO scale single sheathed wooden boxcar
model of the USRA WWI era and copied into the 1920's. The problem is
I have not seen any photos of these cars with the wooden ends in the
1946-1950 era I focus on."

Though superficially similar, this kit is NOT the USRA SS boxcar. Your kit
is actually CN 500500-503499, single sheathed boxcars built in 1923.
Approximately 3,000 of these cars were in service in 1950. For more
information, see the August 1992 issue of Canadian Railway Modeler, Stafford
Swain's article in the October 1992 issue of Model Railroading, Richard
Hendrickson's article in the February 1993 issue of Rail Model Journal, and
J.A. Chambers' article in the September 1998 issue of Railroad Model
Craftsman.


Ben Hom


Test2: Ignore. HTML

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

This is a test. Ignore. HTML.

Mike Brock


Test1: Ignore. Plain Text

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

This is a test. Ignore. Plain Text.


accurail single sheathed boxcar

birdbiz2003 <birdbiz2003@...>
 

I bought a nicely detailed and easy to fix with a few small pieces
added (so I thought) accurail HO scale single sheathed wooden boxcar
model of the USRA WWI era and copied into the 1920's. The problem is
I have not seen any photos of these cars with the wooden ends in the
1946-1950 era I focus on. The single piece body of the Accurail kit
makes it impossible to swap the ends to murphy ,dreadnaught ect ends
and look presentable.Please e mail photos of the prototype to
birdbiz2003@.... I ended the auto into my inbox feature of
messages of this group because althought this list is great it was
way too many messages to deal with each day.

Sincerely,

Justin Turpin


Re: Universal Boxcars

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Tim;
Very interesting reading. I can't wait to see what this leads to,
as
far as specific cars vs. modeling options.

While folks have broken much of this down on the PRR by car class, I
have yet to see the same done for other roads. Do you know of
anyone
that has called out the major classes of each type car on their
favorite
roads?

Elden Gatwood
Elden,

One can get this information for the B&ORR.

The B&OHS [http://borhs.org/Shopping/index.html] publishes a summary
booklet of all the "Summary of Equipment" from 1917-1960 that lists
each freight car by class and the number in the fleet for each year.
The price is $11.00. The S of E was published annually by the B&O and
list all the equipment operated by the B&O from locomotives to tug
boats. Reprints of individual S of E's are also available for the
years 1912 to 1960, with some issues missing. The originals were
pocket-size booklets about 3"x5".

Description: "B&O Freight Car Equipment and Cabooses, 1917-1960.
Contains 43 pages of tables that summarize the Summaries of Equipment
for 1917-1960 for freight cars and cabooses, but not passenger cars.
Compiled by Society member Richard K Daniels. This item was serialized
in 3 parts and mailed to all members of the B&O Society in years past,
now available as a single reprint item."

I hope this helps...

Bob Witt


Re: Universal Boxcars

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

"Gatwood, Elden" wrote:
Tim;
Very interesting reading. Do you know of anyone that has called out
the major classes of each type car on their favorite roads?<

From Tim's comments <snip> "Only five classes each comprised more than
1% of the national boxcar fleet in all four ORER's: - PRR X29, PRR
X31, NYC Steel 1923 Design, B&O's 1923 ARA Design, and SOU's 40' 3,712
cubic footer."

Tim has found that the Class M-26, the 1923 ARA design, constituted
the largest class of B&O boxcars for the period he covered. I have
done this for the total B&O freight car fleet for the year 1955 and I
assume Chris Barkan has done this also. I did it primarily to plan my
model rolling stock fleet by determining the percentage of each class
required to represent the B&O fleet. Of course, now I know that
depending upon what part of the B&O I model the percentages will
change. [e.g. Open-top hoppers are about 50% of the fleet, but it
would be more than this in West Virginia.]

Bob Witt

157861 - 157880 of 197031