Date   

NYC "USRA" Boxcars - How Many is Enough?

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

In the latest Mainline Modeler, there is commentary by a
certain Benjamin Hom <g> that the New York Central's
steel version of the USRA boxcar is under-represented on
most modelers rosters, and that the Westerfield kit makes
an excellent model of this car.

Ben, I assume you mean Al's 2901 and 2951(dreadnaught end)
kits. Which one would have been more prevalent in the late
1950's, the dreadnaught version?

You also said that we ought to have at least one of the NYC
cars for every X29 in our fleet. Ouch! I've got at least a
half-dozen Red Caboose X29's in the closet. Now I gotta buy
6 of Al's kits to get back in balance?

I can hear my credit card screaming....

Shawn Beckert, I better get a second job <g>


Re: Need car class help for spring of 1955

rberry634 <rberry634@...>
 

Yes, these are post-war ribside cars with ribs that do not extend to the
ends. Taking information from a Milwaukee diagram book I see this car was
built with a Camel side door, no end lumber door and no auxiliary grain
door. According to the diagram book 24800, 24913-24937 were equipped with
auxiliary grain doors. The reason I say built is that I have a photo of
another car in the series that doesn't fit the description above. Also, I
have photos where the door no longer fits the panel Camel description but is
a corregated door. Any shopping could have resulted in changed doors or the
diagram book is not correct. John Greedy's handout at the 1997 and 2001
Prototype Modelers meeting in Naperville gives most if not all of the
information about these cars. His notes indicate the series 24938-25537 have
Superior doors.

Richard H. Berry
Warsaw, Indiana

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Need car class help for spring of 1955




Richard Berry wrote:
MILW 25328 (24938-28559 blt. 1948 Milwaukee Shops)

Are these post-war rib-side boxcars? How about a description of the
cars?


Ben Hom







Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: N&W 41366 model help

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rob Kirkham asked:
"In terms of bashing this N&W car, were patch panels as much the
rage at N&W or did they have a different solution to the rust
problem?"

I have not seen photos of these cars later in life (only the ones
pulled from the Virginia Tech N&W Historical Collection) - the only
photo that I've seen of these cars with some form of patch panel is
this one:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns048.jpeg
which shows partial patches on either side of the doors. The single
door BPa post-rebuilding photo:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns046.jpeg
does not show patch panels at all. Perhaps the N&W gave the cars
fresh sides when they brought them into the shops to lose the
auxiliary door.

At any rate, these cars shared the same design flaw of the X29/1923
ARA proposed steel boxcar, so some sort of repair would eventually
be needed.


Ben Hom


Re: Photos Posted

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

WOW! Only an hour to post!
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:07:46 -0600
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos Posted


It's in photos

--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni


Re: Need car class help for spring of 1955

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Berry wrote:
MILW 25328 (24938-28559 blt. 1948 Milwaukee Shops)

Are these post-war rib-side boxcars? How about a description of the
cars?


Ben Hom


Re: Photos Posted

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Rob,

That's because they are in the (useless) Photos section not the files section...
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/lst

They look interesting, but all we get are the dinky little thumbnails so they are not much use...

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
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__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
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| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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On Feb 15, 2005, at 9:04 AM, Rob Daniels wrote:

What exactly is the URL for that? I can't find
anything under
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/

Rob Daniels
New York, NY

--- railsnw1 <railsnw@...> wrote:

>
> I have created an album under the name Richard W. in
> the STMFPH
> Yahoo site. These are snapshot prints that appear to
> have been taken
> in the 30's or 40's. The photos are:


Re: Photos Posted

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

It's not under files its under photos.

Richard

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Daniels <shalizadad@y...> wrote:
What exactly is the URL for that? I can't find
anything under
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/

Rob Daniels
New York, NY

--- railsnw1 <railsnw@a...> wrote:


I have created an album under the name Richard W. in
the STMFPH
Yahoo site. These are snapshot prints that appear to
have been taken
in the 30's or 40's. The photos are:

Central Railroad of New Jersey CNJ 19156 Steel
Automobile Boxcar
Lackawana DL&W 81144 Steel Cement Car
Fruit Growers Express FGEX 18070 Wood Reefer
GULF ???? Tankcar
Wilson Car Line WCL 480? Wood Meat Reefer. This car
has lettering
saying to see their exhibit at the Century of
Progress.

Richard Wilkens





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Re: Photos Posted

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Wilkens wrote:
"I have created an album under the name Richard W. in
the STMFPH Yahoo site." These are snapshot prints that appear to

Rob Daniels asked:
"What exactly is the URL for that? I can't find anything under
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/ "

They're in the photos section; however, they're only viewable
in "Schleicher size":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/photos/

Richard, could you repost your photos in the Files section and
delete the ones in the Photos section (to free up space)? Right
now, nobody except for the moderators can see the full size photos,
which severly limits their usefulness.

Thanks for sharing them!


Ben Hom


Re: Photos Posted

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

It's in photos

--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: Rob Daniels <shalizadad@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:04:27 -0800 (PST)
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos Posted


What exactly is the URL for that? I can't find
anything under
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/

Rob Daniels
New York, NY

--- railsnw1 <railsnw@...> wrote:


I have created an album under the name Richard W. in
the STMFPH
Yahoo site. These are snapshot prints that appear to
have been taken
in the 30's or 40's. The photos are:

Central Railroad of New Jersey CNJ 19156 Steel
Automobile Boxcar
Lackawana DL&W 81144 Steel Cement Car
Fruit Growers Express FGEX 18070 Wood Reefer
GULF ???? Tankcar
Wilson Car Line WCL 480? Wood Meat Reefer. This car
has lettering
saying to see their exhibit at the Century of
Progress.

Richard Wilkens





__________________________________
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http://my.yahoo.com




Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Photos Posted

Robert Daniels
 

What exactly is the URL for that? I can't find
anything under
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/

Rob Daniels
New York, NY

--- railsnw1 <railsnw@...> wrote:


I have created an album under the name Richard W. in
the STMFPH
Yahoo site. These are snapshot prints that appear to
have been taken
in the 30's or 40's. The photos are:

Central Railroad of New Jersey CNJ 19156 Steel
Automobile Boxcar
Lackawana DL&W 81144 Steel Cement Car
Fruit Growers Express FGEX 18070 Wood Reefer
GULF ???? Tankcar
Wilson Car Line WCL 480? Wood Meat Reefer. This car
has lettering
saying to see their exhibit at the Century of
Progress.

Richard Wilkens





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com


Re: Need car class help for spring of 1955

rberry634 <rberry634@...>
 

Add the following:

MILW 25328 (24938-28559 blt. 1948 Milwaukee Shops)

Richard H. Berry
Warsaw, Indiana

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Need car class help for spring of 1955



Garrett Rea's list - what we know:
PRR 602273 (X43a, ACF)
PRR 87597 (X46, Altoona)
NC&StL 22240 (XM, PS-1)
NYC 169382 (Lot 798-B PS-1)
RDG 101045 (XMu, 9'3" IH, 8 panel sides X29/USRA-design steel boxcar
dopplegangers)
B&O 380590 (M-53 "Wagontop", 1937, B&O 380000-381999)
CB&Q 7196 (XA-12, CB&Q, PSC, 1930)
SP 65088 (A-50-14 50' auto boxcar, 1940-41, Mt. Vernon, SP 64925-65424)
NP 25404 (Postwar AAR boxcar, 1951, NP Brainerd Shops, NP
25000-25999)

C&O 289370 (ex-PM rebuilt PSC car?)
Yes - originally PM 89370, Pratt Truss SS automobile boxcar, 1929, PSC,
with
Hutchins roof and ends. Rebuilt with new steel sides and roof c. 1951 by
C&O. See page 144 of Million/Paton "Pere Marquette Revenue Freight Cars"
for more information and page 146 for photo.


Ben Hom






Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Digest Number 2297

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Tim O mentioned "Bob, cement is not poured. Concrete
is poured. But anyway...."

Actually Tim (and anyone else who cares about being
correct) neither is "poured". The correct termonology
is "placed". Concrete cannot be dropped more than 36"
without the aggregate ("rock") becoming segragated.
Ideally you want a uniform mix of aggregate throughout
the concrete, and dropping concrete more than 36"
causes all the heavy aggregate to migrate to the
bottom.

Interestingly enough I once spent a couple of years
doing concrete testing and noticed that most of the
field crews used the term "pour" for concrete
placement. Kinda like some rail workers who used the
term "friction bearings" for
solid/conventional/journal bearings (another
hot-button topic with me...;-). Neither usage is
correct.

Bill Daniels, P.E.
Civil Engineer/Hydrologist
Tucson, AZ





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Re: Identification of boxcars...

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jan Kohl asked:
"This one...
http://www.castlegraphics.com/graphic/transportation/id/freight69.jpg
...an express baggage built on a flatcar frame? No identification marks
at all, and nothing on the photo that I have."

I was hoping one of the NYC guys would get this one - this is most likely a
NYC milk car, NYC 5740-5799 and NYC 6401-6660. (NYC also had a similar
series of express reefers - this is a milk car because it lacks ice
hatches.) Information on the pay side of the RPI website includes an
equipment diagram and a photo:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/milk-cars/Milk-cars-NYC-class-di
agram-3.jpg
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/milk-cars/Milk-detachable-tanks-
unloading-NYC.jpg


Ben Hom


Re: box/caboose car

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Tony,

Curiosity got me to go back into the basement to the archaic card file that I started back in the late '60's for magazines. If you have access to the following magazines here are three references to the single-sheathed side door cabooses with the bench on the roof that were used in Rock Island transfer service:

Model Railroader, February 1958, Pages 44-47: HO Construction article by Al Kamm, Jr., Photo of RI-19045 on page 47.

NMRA Bulletin, March 1969, Page 7: Photo of RI-13125.

Railroad Magazine, December 1941, Article by William Knapke titled "Little Red Caboose:" Page 8: Photo of RI-19015.

Also in the same article by Bill Knapke is a shot of an SP Side-door caboose #23459 built from a double sheathed box car without the roof-top bench.

The photos in MR would probably still be in the Kalmbach photo files and perhaps Andy Sperandeo could help with these.

Rights to and ownership of Railroad Magazine and it's photographic files is owned by Carstens Publishing. Hal bought out the magazine when Freeman Hubbard sold it on his retirement. After the sale, it became the basis for the present Railfan/Railroad Magazine. Perhaps Bill Schaumburg can assist you in obtaining these photos from both the Railroad and RMC photo files.

As I no longer have the Bulletins, I was not able to vet this reference to be sure that the entry was correct. Perhaps someone with copies of the Bulletin or someone with access to the NMRA Kalmbach Library in Chattanooga can verify that this car is indeed a side-door single sheathed caboose with the roof-top bench.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: Photos Posted

thetrainman00@...
 

Hi Richard:

I enjoyed seeing the photos you recently posted. I especially enjoyed the
shot of CNJ 19156. I am modeling the CNJ in a more recent time frame but I
enjoy seeing any pictures of any CNJ equipment from any era.

Happy Model Railroading,
Jim Krapf
Burkesville, KY
Modeling the CNJ L&S Div 60's & 70's


Re: box/caboose car

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Good morning Tony,

I think that you may find an article in an early MR sometime between
1955 and 1965 on this car. I remember seeing it and if I can find it, I
will let you know which issue. It may be in the Kalmbach magazine index.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Anthony Thompson wrote:

I hope this is on topic.I`m trying to find a pic of a Rock Island
transfer
caboose made from a wooden box car.It had like a picnic bench on the
top
for the crews to sit on (in the summer).The caboose/box car was used
around Joliet Ill in the 50`s.I cant find a RI site that has a photo
of
one.They were strange looking and the only RR I know of that did this.

The SP de Mexico did this too.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links








Bay Area Prototype Modelers Meet - April 30, 2005

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

You are invited to attend the second annual San Francisco Bay Area Prototype Modelers (BAPM) meet in Newark, CA. We welcome railroad prototype modelers representing all roads, scales, and eras.

Bay Area Prototype Modelers Meet 2005

Saturday, April 30, 2005
10:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.

George M. Silliman Activity Center
6800 Mowry Avenue
Newark CA 94560

Map: http://shorterlink.com/?4I6JKO

Registration: Before April 16 = $15.00
After April 16 = $18.00

Activities include:
- Display tables for models
- Clinics - topics to be announced
- Manufacturer tables - see the latest parts and kits
- Raffle for great prizes!

Come enjoy a day of great models, both finished and in-progress, learn and share tips and techniques, socialize with your fellow modelers. We encourage attendees to bring locomotives (steam / diesel / electric), rolling stock, and structures. This is a non-competitive environment completely free from judging or contests.

For a look back at BAPM 2003, visit these sites:
http://www.pbase.com/espeeboy/cpmf03_bapm
http://www.pbase.com/espeeboy/cpmf03

For more information about BAPM 2005 or to register, please contact:

Rob Sarberenyi
37171 Sycamore St. #1427
Newark CA 94560

Email: espeef5@...

Include a SASE with written inquiries.

Make checks or money orders payable to: Rob Sarberenyi c/o BAPM
You can also pre-pay via PayPal, contact espeef5@... for details:

Brought to you by the local BAPM Organizing Committee: Elizabeth Allen, Thom Anderson, Ryan Martin, Bob Pires, Dave Pires, Rob Sarberenyi, and Harry Wong. Additional resources and advisors from the Western Prototype Modelers (WPM) include: Tim Costello, Dave Hussey, and Brian Rutherford.

Website with additional information coming soon!


Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@...


N&W 41366 model help

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks Dave and Ben - I appreciate the info and references. Very helpful. I had no idea the X29 was to be found in so many variants for so many railroads. I find it amusing that after my X28a question I ordered a couple of the Red Caboose models to do a kitbash. Now it looks like another couple will be required. It seems my research keeps leading me to photos of cars that Sunshine has discontinued. Go Figure!

In terms of bashing this N&W car, were patch panels as much the rage at N&W or did they have a different solution to the rust problem?

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: N&W 41366 model help



Rob Kirkham wrote:
"I've uploaded a snap shot of N&W41366 to the STMFPH files at the
following link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/
under the name N&W boxcar. It is shown in a train along the CPR
main line in British Columbia - not precisely dated - could be 30's,
could be 40's. According to my Jan 1953 ORER, it is a 9' 3"
interior height car. I can't say much more about it, but would
appreciate modelling suggestions."

Here are more photos of N&W Class BPa from the Virginia Tech N&W
Historical Photo Collection, both before and after removal of the
auxiliary doors:

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns047.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns048.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns046.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/NS2871.jpeg

The last photo shows one of the cars with roof hatches that Jim
Brewer described earlier.

As for modeling these cars, my suggestions are the same as PRR Class
X28 (detailed in post #37335): acquire and build the Sunshine kit
(26.16 or 26.17); kitbash the Red Caboose model by splicing two
bodies to increase the height of the car and ignore the lack of
the "odd panel" to the left of the door, or use the Red Caboose
model as-is and live with the height discrepancy. I'm less inclined
to accept the third option, as the increased height of the car is a
distinctive spotting feature, especially if you have the proper
abundance of PRR X29, 1923 proposed ARA design steel boxcars, and
CP "miniboxes" on your layout.


Ben Hom




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Re: box/caboose car

Arthur Marr <abmarr2@...>
 

On the second level of the California State Railroad Museum there is a
large photo of an oil tank fire at the Sacramento shops
in 1907. This photo looks over the roof tops of a group of SP cabooses at
least 3 of which are box car cabooses. All three have
benches on the roofs. One car in the foreground is SP Cal. 14270. I was
hoping that I could learn more about these in SP caboose
book but they are not mentioned..

Does anyone know when this practice was started and how long it lasted on
SP?



Art Marr
Reno, NV


The SP de Mexico did this too.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Identification of boxcars...

Jan Kohl <kohlj@...>
 

Thanks, Garth, Tony, Fred, & Ben!

It's a shame that the lettering on the others is so faded. I've tried hue and lightness alteration on this one to attempt to bring out the letters more, there's just too much missing.
http://www.castlegraphics.com/graphic/transportation/id/freight67.jpg

The first letter is probably an "R", the second an "E", the rest are pretty hit-or-miss. I'm fairly sure it says "Co" at the end as well.

This one...http://www.castlegraphics.com/graphic/transportation/id/freight69.jpg

..an express baggage built on a flatcar frame? No identification marks at all, and nothing on the photo that I have.

Cheers!


* ��/ Jan Kohl/ ��*
*::: computer security consultant :::*

the pits - http://www.theuspits.com
castle graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com

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