Date   

Miscellaneous

Justin Kahn
 

"Notorious?" Apart from their using enormous centercabs and F units on a shortline, I actually lament the passing of the WAG. I can add the minor bit of information that hide shipping was a major part of the lading from Ellenburgh Depot on the Rutland (presumably from decrepit dairy cattle in the area).
And whoever referred to "Alice Chalmers (as in "Alice doesn't live here..."), I think you will find the industrial manufacturer is ALLIS Chalmers. Not to throw very large rocks on that, as my aging mind slips the occasional gear, too.
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks/GTT

There is an excellent article in one if the "Logging Railroads of
Pennsylvania" series
of books. It secribes the whole tanning process including machines and
chemicals used. The book goes into the tanneries because the logging railroads were
associated with the tan bark (from hemlock trees).

The infamous Wellsville,Addison & Galeton was asociated with the tanning
industry and abandonment of the line was largely due tot he closing of the last
tannery in that area. The hides were shipped to PA becuase that's where the
tanbark was, with the volume of hides being far less than the tanbark.

Endicott-Johnson Shoe Co. had a tannery right in the middle of Endicott NY
that lasted into the 60's, perfuming the air for miles around. They got about
ten cars of hides a week from the Erie. The tannery was a conventional brick &
concrete multistory industrial building but the hide storage was made up of
wooden sheds.

As has been said, the cars used to bring hides from the west were wood
sheathed cars with floorboards and side sheathing often missing. My understanding is
that once a car was put in hide service it never could be used for anything
else.

Chuck Y
Boulder CO
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Eminently Useful Correction

Justin Kahn
 

Amen to that, Ted. I have spent many years taking exception to the common misconception that people who live in New York State (I am a native, and my great, great-grandfather relocated to central New York State from Connecticut in the 1790's) do not have a problem being defined by the slugs from New York CITY who control national media. Most of the rest of the country is not aware that they are being sold a bill of [spurious] goods by the city slickers.
I have. reluctantly, accepted that there really is an "upstate": it consists of about a hundred-mile radius from Sodom-on-the-Hudson (which should not be construed as suggesting homophobia but rather as acknowledging that the full panoply of unusual practice is available there), which has been corrupted by contagion. Now as to whether the perfectly normal people who live in New York State proper are entitled to be termed "Yankees," Don Valentine and I shall likely never agree.
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks/GTT


You native West Coasters will never get this one right. The Hamptons
are summer home communities on eastern Long Island. Binghamton (no
't') is a small city in "upstate" New York. Upstate is in quotations
because anyone who actually lives in upstate NY knows that upstate is
really places like Syracuse, Utica, Buffalo, Rochester, etc. People
from Manhattan think that upstate begins somewhere around Bronxville.

Regards,
Ted Culotta
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Re: "Unload This Side Only" Placard as added detail

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
. . . if they arrive with the wrong door towards the loading
dock or the unloading side of the team track, the switching crew would be
required to turn them at the nearest wye or turntable - which might be at a
considerable distance, and might either require considerable forethought or
an extra trip down the main line and back, probably to the dispatcher's
dismay.
And maybe earning said crew a small lecture on planning ahead. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: "Unload This Side Only" Placard as added detail

ljack70117@...
 

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 02:59 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

It certainly adds operating interest and even today some cars need to
be turned before unloading. And I've discovered there were more
commodities than lumber that met this requirement.
Photographic evidence indicates that "UNLOAD THIS SIDE" and "UNLOAD OTHER
SIDE" placards were fairly common on box cars loaded with lumber,
machinery, etc. I've added them to several models. From an operations
viewpoint, of course, such cars would add complication and interest to
switching since, if they arrive with the wrong door towards the loading
dock or the unloading side of the team track, the switching crew would be
required to turn them at the nearest wye or turntable - which might be at a
considerable distance, and might either require considerable forethought or
an extra trip down the main line and back, probably to the dispatcher's
dismay.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
On the two RRs I worked on, The UPRR and John Santa Fe, This problem was handled before a spot was made of the car. The Way bill had notations about it. The yard clerk would see it and have the switch engine take care of it before putting into the train that was going to set it out and spot it. Also the in coming train would have it on his train list. If one did get out wrong there would be no special Run to turn it. The train that had it would just keep and take it on to the next terminal and it would be turned and then put in a train the next day for delivery.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
It is only possible to live happily ever after on a day-to-day basis.


Tannery Traffic 1

Bob Bowes
 

All notations are on NYC paper at Elkland Pa. Routing at the end.
Typing in what is there.

1-2-58 / PRR 254437 / quick lime / from Bellefonte Pa. - Warner
to Elkland Leather Co. / PRR NBJCT

1-2-57 / PRR 254690 / quick lime / from Bellefonte Pa. - Warner
to Elkland Leather Co. / PRR NBJCT

12-30-57 / PRR 457565 / quick lime / from Bellefonte Pa. - Warner
to Elkland Leather Co. / PRR NBJCT

12-23-57 / PRR 255729 / quick lime / from Bellefonte Pa. - Warner
to Elkland Leather Co. / PRR NBJCT

12-27-57/ no car or no. / 1 bx steam separator / Barbreton O.
- Barcex and Wilsox / to Elkland Leather CO. / ERIE E BFLO

12-16-57 / PRR 255715 / quick lime / from Bellefonte Pa. - Warner
to Elkland Leather Co. / PRR NBJCT

1-7-58 / no car or no. / 1 crtn Stl Boiler Manhole Covers / Berberton O.
-Babcock Wilcox / to Elkland Leather Co. / ERIE E BFLO

12-19-57 / LMVX 118 / TC Tan Extract / Buena Vista Va. - Leas and Mcivty
to Proctor Ellison Co. / N&W RIV SOU POT YDS B&O PK JCT RDG NBJCT

12-6-57 / PRR 257023 / quick lime / from Bellefonte Pa. - Warner
to Elkland Leather Co. / PRR NBJCT

12-12-57 / PRR 255708 / quick lime / from Bellefonte Pa. - Warner
to Elkland Leather Co. / PRR NBJCT

1-15-53 / MILW 709073 / 685 GS Hides / Des Moines Ia. - Bookey Pkg Co.
to Proctor Ellison Co. / CMSTP DELMAR NYC

12-31-57 / RI 141431 / 905 GS Hides / Des Moines Ia. -Bookey Pkg Co.
to Elkland Leather Co. / CRIP CHGO NYC

12-24-57 / CBQ 10257 / 877 GS Hides / Denver Col. - Swift
to Proctor Ellison Co. / CS CBQ CON PK IHB NYC

12-23-57 / UP 180975 / GS Hides / Denver Col. Swift
to Proctor Ellison Co. / UP CB IC IHB NYC

12-19-57 / UP 180408 / 1500 GS Hides /Denver Col. - Swift
to Elkland Leather CO. / UP COB CNW IHB NYC
--

Bob Bowes
St. Thomas, Ontario.
robert.bowes@...


Re: Tank Car Dome Markings

Richard Hendrickson
 

Steve Hile asks:

... I have a Bob's Photo of a UTLX Type X tank car taken in 1954 where the
letters SR are stencilled on the dome side. I have seen this on some
other cars as well, but do not know what it stands for? Is there a
comprehensive source for definitions of this type of marking in our era?
I have photos of only two UTL cars with "SR" stenciled on the domes, a 6K
gal. class X UTLX 16285 (probably the same McCoid photo you have) and 6.5
gal. X3 UTLX 9336. I'm not aware of its use by other tank car operators
and I have no information about what it denotes, though the location
suggests some sort of restriction on the commodities that can be loaded in
the car.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Trix/Marklin Chlorine tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

From Steve Hile:

Just curious, because I have not yet seen the T/M cars, but would it be
possible to mount this tank to the P2k Type 21 underframe or perhaps
shorten the Intermountain Type 27 underframe to use this size tank? Would
that result in something that matches any known prototype?
The problem is that the 6K gal. cars had different underframes than can be
modeled with either the P2K Type 21 or Intermountain Type 27 underframes
(23'2-1/2" over truck centers, 35'10" over strikers in contrast to
25'8-1/4" and 36'3-3/4" for the Type 27 and 22'9" and 32'7" for the Type
21). So you would be looking at extensive underframe modifications in
addition to the shortcomings of the T/M tanks und tank details. Not to say
it couldn't be done but....

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: "Unload This Side Only" Placard as added detail

Richard Hendrickson
 

Victor Baird writes:

We are having an interesing discussion on this topic at the

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/

Anyone add this placard on their cars?

It certainly adds operating interest and even today some cars need to
be turned before unloading. And I've discovered there were more
commodities than lumber that met this requirement.
Photographic evidence indicates that "UNLOAD THIS SIDE" and "UNLOAD OTHER
SIDE" placards were fairly common on box cars loaded with lumber,
machinery, etc. I've added them to several models. From an operations
viewpoint, of course, such cars would add complication and interest to
switching since, if they arrive with the wrong door towards the loading
dock or the unloading side of the team track, the switching crew would be
required to turn them at the nearest wye or turntable - which might be at a
considerable distance, and might either require considerable forethought or
an extra trip down the main line and back, probably to the dispatcher's
dismay.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Top Ten

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"My point was suppose to be that even if you don't have a layout,
test run your freight cars before displaying them or putting them
back in their boxes."

Clark raises an excellent point - if you intend to run your models,
you have to put some thought into making sure the combination of
trucks, couplers, wheelsets, and weight works before you get too
deep into the project to make easy corrections. This is true
whether you're building resin kits, shaking the box, or even putting
built up models on the layout. Some things that work for me:

Trucks, couplers, and wheelsets are not always equal: Despite the
existence of NMRA RPs designed to prevent this, there exists bolster
height variances between different types and manufacturers of trucks
trucks which in turn affect coupler height. This problem wasn't as
evident when we were running fleets of Athearn cars, but rears its
ugly head once you start matching trucks to prototypes. Kadee
washers may not solve this problem, especially if coupler height is
too high or multiple washers have to be used to raise the carbody
(resulting in an unrealistic "toy train" appearance). Plan ahead by
choosing your truck and wheelset combination early, and test fit
them to the underframe at first opportunity to see what coupler
adjustments are needed. This saves you the trouble of having to
mess with a detailed and painted model later.

Figure out weight early: Once you get your model together in major
subassemblies (with all sprues and other waste removed), weigh all
of your pieces together to see what adjustments you'll need to
make. This is especially important for open cars such as gons,
hoppers, and flatcars, which will require some planning ahead to
find places to add weight. Again, it's much easier to do this
during construction than to do this to a finished model. (I've got
several resin models built by rookie kit builders that will have to
be disassembled to add weight. I'm not particularly looking forward
to this job.)


Ben Hom


Re: Top Ten

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Jack, Mike,
I should have clarified my statement on resin kits better. I had plastic cars that derailed also. My Bowser PRR flat car would derail on straight track!
I should make a top ten list of 'don'ts' or better 'I should know betters'.
First, I use Kadee #5s, they're sturdy and inexpensive. But, you have to adjust them. I just screwed the couple box to the car and sat it on the shelve. When I tried running them, the uncoupling hose thingy would catch on turnouts. I have 'operations' friends that cut them off and use a skewer to uncouple cars. I need to check into this.
Second, I have JB, Kadee, IM and P2K steel wheel sets. These do not all free wheel in all trucks. I had to replace wheel sets and ream out trucks to make the cars roll better. Notice I didn't say correctly, I still have to work on several car's trucks.
My point was suppose to be that even if you don't have a layout, test run your freight cars before displaying them or putting them back in their boxes.
My wife has the whip to my back to make progress on the layout while I'm off on vacation and she's working so I better get some chain link fence made and the 12th St NE overpass built.
I went out this morning to measure the perimeter fence that is around the acreage that was the Decker Plant and measure the overpass just south of the plant. My truck said it was 30 degrees out, not bad, but my digit camera wouldn't work and I took a pen instead of a pencil and had a difficult time writing down measures. Four more months till my pen will write outside...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


"Unload This Side Only" Placard as added detail

wabash2813 <vbaird@...>
 

We are having an interesing discussion on this topic at the

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/

Anyone add this placard on their cars?

It certainly adds operating interest and even today some cars need to
be turned before unloading. And I've discovered there were more
commodities than lumber that met this requirement.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Tank Car Dome Markings

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Separate question: I have a Bob's Photo of a UTLX Type X tank car taken in 1954 where the letters SR are stencilled on the dome side. I have seen this on some other cars as well, but do not know what it stands for? Is there a comprehensive source for definitions of this type of marking in our era?

Thanks in advance.

Steve Hile


Re: Trix/Marklin Chlorine tank cars

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Ted wrote:

Richard is correct. I am entirely serious about fixing these. The
primary reason is because I expect that before I see them done in
styrene again, I'll be Richard's age. I am now approximately 30 years
his junior if that lends some perspective. I think that I will do the
underframe as a set of patterns so that others can use it as well.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Just curious, because I have not yet seen the T/M cars, but would it be possible to mount this tank to the P2k Type 21 underframe or perhaps shorten the Intermountain Type 27 underframe to use this size tank? Would that result in something that matches any known prototype?

Steve Hile


Re: Hide Cars

Thomas Baker
 

Interesting, Denny. I did not have the intimate contact with hide cars you describe, but I do recall riding the old CGW between Minneapolis and Marshalltown and return and seeing many single-sheathed, radial-roofed CGW box cars painted black and stenciled "for hide service only." Once the cars went to hide service, they probably were not fit for other lading. I know that the CGW served several meat packers in St. Paul, one in Austin, at least one in Marshalltown, some in Des Moines, and five in St. Joseph. A tannery was also located in Red Wing, and the CGW probably served that as well.

Tom

________________________________


Looking for Bill Welch

briankd.usf.net@...
 

Sorry for the distraction. Bill Welch, my brother James, asks you to contact him about the archival research at the Minnesota History Center concerning the WFE records. He doesn't know your e-mail address. He can be reached at jcdworkingonthenp@.... Thanks, Brian Dick. St. Paul, MN.



--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---


Re: Accurail and Athearn wood reefers

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

I wrote:
"I'll post more info on [correct BREX] number series tonight if Bill doesn't
beat me to it."

From Bill Welch's handout, BREX 75000-75999, 1000 cars, population in 900s
through 1948, 787 in 1951, 693 in 1953; CX 50050-50249, 200 cars, population
in 190s through 1948, 158 in 1951, 143 in 1953; FWDX 20001-20100, 100 cars,
population in 90s through 1948, 72 in 1951, 59 in 1953.


Ben Hom


Cars Loaded with Hides

Jeff English
 

Appropos to the discussion of hides, below is a listing of cars
interchanged between the Rutland RR and B&M RR at Bellows
Falls, Vermont in 1961. Yes it's post-1960; so shoot me.

Note the origins and destinations, some pairings of which there is
no logical expectation that the Rutland would be remotely plausible
as a link in the routing. Yet, there it is, a testimony to the
effectiveness of the Rutland's sales staff.

Jeff English
Troy, New York

RAILROAD
CAR
NO
AAR
SPE
C
SHIPPER
ORIGIN
ORIG
STAT
E
ORIGROA
D
CONSIGNEE
DESTNATION
DEST
STAT
E
DEST
ROAD
COMMODITY
WEIGHT
TARIFF
DATE
LINK
REC
ORD

B&M
9428
GB
Sidney Lipman
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Co
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
50800
0
61-06-30
154
1729

B&M
9461
GB
Sidney Lipman
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Corp
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
76800
645.12
61-07-26
154
2671

B&O
3529
89
GB
Sidney Lipman Co
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Corp
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides

0
61-09-04
203
4418

C&NW
7109
2
XM
Alfred Jacobshagen
Chicago
IL
NYC
Hebb? Leather
Danversport
MA
B&M
hides
41930
524.13
61-04-02
311
3438

GN
4893
0
XM
Wisconsin Hide
Milwaukee
WI
MILW
Granite State Leather
Nashua
NH
B&M
hides
52800
660
61-09-13
877
4981

MILW
7066
39
XM
Sioux City Beef
Sioux City
IA
MILW
Irving Tanning
Hartland
ME
MEC
hides
64928
1253.11
61-01-21
1149
790

MILW
7116
91
XM
Sig Adler & Co
Chicago
IL
NYC
Moran Leather
Walnut Hill Sta
MA
B&M
hides
53211
665.14
61-03-18
1150
2707

NJI&I
7813
0
XM
Ben Wright
Springfield
IL
WAB
Allied Kid
Penacook
NH
B&M
hides
55301
752.01
61-09-03
1302
4731

NYC
1032
15
XM
Wolverine Wool
Detroit
MI
NYC
A C Lawrence Leather
Winchester
MA
B&M
hides
87500
0
61-06-16
1431
2024

NYC
1172
92
XM
H Wilson
Louisville
KY
NYC
H Elkan & Co
Woburn
MA
B&M
hides
55151
0
61-08-30
1434
4354

NYC
1229
88
XM
K Shapiro
Detroit
MI
NYC
A C Lawrence Leather
Winchester
NH
B&M
hides
85100
0
61-01-29
1439
933

NYC
1230
08
XM
Wolverine Wool
Detroit
MI
NYC
A C Lawrence Leather
Winchester
NH
B&M
hides
64200
0
61-07-15
1439
3031

PRR
3589
63
GB
Sidney Lipman Co
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Co
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides

0
61-08-07
1684
3441

PRR
3777
86
GB
Sidney Lipman Co
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Corp
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
59800
0
61-01-01
1703
17

PRR
6111
97
GB
Sidney Lipman Co
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Co
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
58300
0
61-07-27
1740
2684

PRR
6162
90
GB
Sidney Lipman Co
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Corp
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
67900
570.36
61-09-13
1743
4535

PRR
6175
70
GB
Sidney Lipman
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Co
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
57400
0
61-06-07
1743
1348

R
6063
XM
Becker & Kaplan Co
Burlington
VT
R
Allied Kid Co
Wilmington
DE
PRR
hides
40400
339.36
61-06-26
1816
2256

RDG
2664
0
GB
Sidney Lipman Co
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Co
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
69400
0
61-06-15
1836
1485

RDG
3371
3
GB
Sidney Lipman Co
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Corp
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
69700
585.48
61-09-21
1843
4635

SOU
6118
1
GB
Sidney Lipman
Salem
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Corp
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides

0
61-05-12
2025
199

SOU
3141
72
GB
Sidney Lipman
Boston
MA
B&M
Peter Cooper Co
Carrollville
WI
C&NW
hides
80800
678.72
61-08-24
2036
3652

T&P
8109
7
XM
Swift & Co
Ft Worth
TX
SSW
Lorn? Fur Co
Montreal
PQ
CN
hides

0
61-05-21
2178
359

WAB
8161
1
XM
Ben Wright
Springfield
IL
WAB
Allied Kid Co
Penacook
NH
B&M
hides
66421
903.33
61-08-18
2318
4105

WAB
8261
0
XM
Ben Wright
Springfield
IL
WAB
Allied Kid
Penacook
NH
B&M
hides
61660
844.74
61-02-24
2319
1778

WAB
8275
7
XM
Ben Wright
Springfield
IL
WAB
Allied Kid
Penacook
NH
B&M
hides
55357
752.86
61-09-14
2319
5008

WAB
8290
1
XM
Ben Wright
Springfield
IL
WAB
Allied Kid Co
Penacook
NH
B&M
hides
53405
726.31
61-06-13
2320
1966


Re: Is there a prototype for this car?

Richard Hendrickson
 

I don't think I've heard of this import before... assuming
of course that the seller knows what he's talking about.
News to me, too, Tim. However, there was a lot of inaccurate/generic early
brass made by fly-by-night Japanese and Korean builders whose names changed
weekly. I'm sure that the Southern never had a car that looked like this,
and I'm not familiar with any other prototype for which this is even
remotely an accurate model. However, because it's brass (and in spite of
that gawdawful paint job) the seller will doubtless get a bundle for it.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Shell Oil of Canada Tank Cars

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

I've been compiling a list of the Shell Oil Company
facilities that were served by rail in 1959. So far
I have 29 plants, but I'm listing only those Shell
facilities operating in the United States.

There were many Shell Oil plants in Canada in 1959,
but I haven't included them on the ASSumption that
Shell Oil of Canada tank cars wouldn't have traveled
across the border for very far or very long.

The thought occurs that I ought to run that theory
by you Canadians and east coast dwellers: Did Shell
of Canada tank cars cross into the US on a regular
basis, or did they stay on their side of the border?

Thanks for the help,

Shawn Beckert


Re: Hide Cars

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

During summers in the latter 1950s, I had very personal experience with hide and salt cars (i.e. I loaded the former, and emptied the latter), and they seemed to use the same type of cars (I do not think that the same cars were used for both, however). This all occurred in an Iowa packing house recently featured in a side bar subject by Doug Harding in RMC.

In this instance, the cars were exclusively Rock Island single sheath cars that seemed altogether to be close to their deathbeds. I do not recall that they were missing any "boards" or that they were in fact less than whole, however.

The salt cars were marked (I paraphrase) "Salt service only, return to _____Kansas". I do not recall that the hide cars were specially marked, but they probably were so as to prevent them being casually assigned to some inappropriate backhaul. Do I know where the hides went? I do not, but for all I know they might well have gone as far away as Maine and Massachusetts for the shoe industry, still going strong at that time; or even to export.

The common thread between the salt cars and hide cars was--
ever-so-corrosive salt- the reason why wood cars at the ends of their lives were so chosen for this duty. In this regard, several years ago on the old FCL, an ATSF wood ice reefer in Iowa was identified as fulfilling its new (and last) role as a "salt car".

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California

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