Date   

Well, that's a relief!

Peter Weiglin <omnibus@...>
 

Don Smith hastily typed:

Hi Shawn, I think the boxcar peeing out from behind the red Santa Fe
car is a Northhampton and Bath car.

= = =

How many of us have done that out from behind a box car?

Peter Weiglin
San Mateo CA
(soon to be Amelia, OH)


Re: Barge Full of Boxcars

MATT HERSON <npry2526@...>
 

List,

The tug is definitely Bush Terminal. See NY Harbor Railroads Vol. 1 page
121.

The tug and floats are on the Hudson River with Jersey City behind.
Photographer most likely on one of the railroad owned ferry boats operating between
lower Manhattan and Jersey City.

Second boxcar from left appears to be B&M.

Hope this helps.

Matt Herson


Re: Erie 10 panel high side gons with drop doors

Robert Welsh <bobwelsh32971@...>
 

I have a couple gons lettered for Erie, they were my
dad's. I don't know if they are Mantua or not, but
they are nice looking cars. My only complaint was that
both cars bore the same road number so I simply
renumbered one.

--- Dean Payne <deanpayne@...> wrote:

I was just discussing this car off-line with Ray
Breyer. The NEB&W
site says the MDC model is incorrect, not long or
tall enough, and
that the Mantua 10-panel gon is correct (if you can
stand the cast-on
grabs). However, the Mantua gon is not available
lettered for the
Erie, the only road that it is correct for! Perhaps
one could
replace the grabs while stripping the car to
repaint/decal.
Uh, sorry, I don't have any prototype info.
Dean Payne


--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson"
<brian@b...> wrote:
I'm looking for some information on Erie 70 ton 10
panel high side
gondolas with drop doors.

In the Train Shed Cyclopedia (No. 46) reprint of
the 1931 Car
Builders
Cyclopedia there is a builders photo of Erie
44,000. A 10 panel
high side
70-ton gon with 12 drop doors. I do not have an
ORER from the
1930's so I
don't know how many cars were in the original
series.

Jumping forward to the January 1955 ORER lists 3
series of car with
the same
dimensions as the 1931 entry
37002-37748, 303 cars, 4 hopper self clearing
44336, 1 car Flat bottom wood floor
45001-45599, 178 cars, Flat bottom steel floor
<Snip>
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY




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Re: Red Caboose Steel Side gondola

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"The Red Caboose prototypes were covered in several articles when
the models were released, notably in RMJ by Richard Hendrickson. I
can dig out Richard's article and check the date tonight if no one
else jumps in here."

Richard Hendrickson, "General Service Gondolas", Railmodel Journal,
March 2000.

http://index.mrmag.com/


Ben Hom


Re: Red Caboose Steel Side gondola

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Rob,

The Red Caboose prototypes were covered in several articles when the models were released, notably in RMJ by Richard Hendrickson. I can dig out Richard's article and check the date tonight if no one else jumps in here. Red Caboose has gone on to release some dubious prototypes (like the WP/TS/SN cars) since the articles were published. Caution is advised.

Once again I am lobbying Martin Loftin for a 46' GS car, and sent him information on the WP 1953 GATC cars. This design was also used by the D&RGW. If anyone else is interested, please drop Martin a note.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Rob Kirkham wrote:

Thanks Garth. That makes sense. I wonder if this car may have been analysed at some earlier time before STMFC got started?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Barge Full of Boxcars

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Bob and Jay,

The 2005 Walthers catalog lists their (Walthers') barge as a discontinued model. If it interests you, now is the time to pick one up.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Bob Webber wrote:

I thought at one time Sylvan had one, but now the only list coal barges:
http://www.isp.on.ca/Sylvan/ho-scaleproducts.htm
They do have tugs.

Not sure if they are workable into a NE harbor tug, but they should be a good foundation. Maybe the coal barge could be too (into a rail barge).

For those in the NE region, some of their cars are nice for the GTW, CN, CP interludes as well...

At 02:31 PM 3/22/2005, you wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
wrote:

List,

The latest bunch of photographs at the Fallen Flag web site
includes several freightcar pix from the late '50's and early
'60's. Here's one of a barge-load of cars somewhere in New York:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-b/btrr-b44amh.jpg
Does anyone have a reference source for plans for the barge or
similar rail car barges. Specifically, I am looking for the type
used in the 20s or 30s.

Jay Bingham
Pacific Palisades, CA


Re: Freight Car Wheels

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 3/22/05 9:50:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
thompson@... writes:

<< Were substantial quantities of cast IRON wheels still being
made? Cast steel wheels came in during the 1930s and my understanding
was that by 1950 or so, had substantially displaced cast iron. >>

Tony,

The AAR membership vote (1956) in favor of banning the application of cast
iron wheels was nearly twice the number needed for passage. The rule change was
added to the next printed supplement which was most likely issued in August.
The only protests came from the wheel manufacturers organizations. Their
belief was that the iron wheels had progressed to an acceptable level of quality
to still be in use. I have no actual numbers, but AAR notes (6/1958) stated;
"During the last twelve months six cast iron wheel foundries have been
permanently closed in the United States and two have closed in Canada. This
represents very close to twenty-five percent of total capacity."

A.T. Kott notes the 1959 wheels...I can't find any extension of the rule
within my data though my 1957 books are not accesible at the moment. Bill Kelly
might have information (at hand). The real proof would be the required AAR
stampings on that wheel set. If those marks include an "X" they may have been
permitted under AAR guidelines for experimental wheels.

An interesting aside to the cast iron wheel revolves around the manufacture
of 70 ton wheels applied to covered hoppers of the 1950s. The failure rate was
substantial and initiated the first ban of cast iron wheels. Rule 3, w, 4,
was added in 1954; "Wheels, cast iron, 70 ton capacity, prohibited on covered
hopper cars built new or rebuilt on and after August 1, 1954, and on all cars
in interchange on and after January 1, 1956.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada


Re: Pad printing (was Bowser lettering)

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Bill,

In other words, pad printing is the same as offset printing where the
image is transferred from the photo-etched aluminum plate to the rubber
blanket and then to the paper. The plate never touches the paper. I
worked for 4 years in offset printing before going on the railroad. It
is an interesting process, but is much more sophisticated now then when
I was in it. Continuous feed web presses were new then and we were
still using multiple unit sheet fed presses in the early '60s.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Bill Schneider wrote:

Perhaps if any of our other manufacturer friends are lurking they can
comment on the "state of the art" in printing.....
Charlie Vlk

OK Charlie, I'll get drawn in here too.... :>)

First folks let's cover Pad Printing 101, and hopefully clarify a couple
points. Pad printing is a process that is used to decorate numerous items we
all use every day - from pens and razor handles to the climate control and
window buttons on our cars. Pad printing's biggest advantage to is its
ability to print on uneven surfaces.

If you think of pad printing as a high tech rubber stamp machine then you
won't be far off. An image is etched on a plate, ink is applied to the plate
and is swept from the plate leaving ink in the etched areas only. A silicone
rubber pad then comes down onto the plate, picks up the ink and transfers it
to the object being printed. Simple. (Notice that the pad itself is just a
smooth surface, there is no image in it as such. The image is on the plate,
the pad just serves as a transfer medium to get the ink to the object).

Multi color printing is done with multiple plates, one for each color. Each
color is printed individually, one on top of another.

The trick to keeping fine lettering (trust and repack data for example)
legible is in the clarity of the original artwork, the care in which the
plate is made, and the care with which the printing is done. Good plate
material will reproduce everything - including dust specs - so making sure
you start with high quality artwork is a must. The other two items (the
"care" parts) come down to the skill of the operator and his ability to set
up and monitor the process. Changes in temperature and humidity, for
example, can change the way an image is printing and unless the operator
compensates for this a job can go from gold to scrap in no time at all. If
this seems to imply that a skilled operator who cares about the finished
product is needed, you'd better believe it!

As for "Laser printing" - I agree that the process refers to artwork and
plate preparation only. There are some new systems on the market that use a
laser to directly etch a plate, but I have not tried these yet so can't
comment on them. Having seen one example I'm not sure that its any
improvement over the system we already use. With our current process we can
get down to about 1 point (approx 1" HO) lettering and keep it legible,
sometimes less.

Here are a couple web sites with some additional information for those that
want to know more. (Disclaimer - None of these sites has any affiliation
with Branchline or the equipment we use).

http://www.itwtranstech.com/Pages/how.html

http://mamero.homestead.com/PadPrinting.html (interesting process using
metallic inks to create circuit boards, but the process is identical)

http://www.monode.com/pad/pp05.htm

http://www.mortek.net/technology.htm (Cute animation!)


Bill Schneider
(Branchline Trains)





Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Erie 10 panel high side gons with drop doors

Ed Hawkins
 

On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 07:09 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Does anyone have a 1958 or later ORER they could check for information
on
the longevity of the car class?
Brian,
The 1/59 ORER does not list 37002-37748 or 44336. There are 124 cars
listed in series 45004-45599.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Red Caboose Steel Side gondola

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks Garth. That makes sense. I wonder if this car may have been analysed at some earlier time before STMFC got started?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Erie 10 panel high side gons with drop doors

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I was just discussing this car off-line with Ray Breyer. The NEB&W
site says the MDC model is incorrect, not long or tall enough, and
that the Mantua 10-panel gon is correct (if you can stand the cast-on
grabs). However, the Mantua gon is not available lettered for the
Erie, the only road that it is correct for! Perhaps one could
replace the grabs while stripping the car to repaint/decal.
Uh, sorry, I don't have any prototype info.
Dean Payne


--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@b...> wrote:
I'm looking for some information on Erie 70 ton 10 panel high side
gondolas with drop doors.

In the Train Shed Cyclopedia (No. 46) reprint of the 1931 Car
Builders
Cyclopedia there is a builders photo of Erie 44,000. A 10 panel
high side
70-ton gon with 12 drop doors. I do not have an ORER from the
1930's so I
don't know how many cars were in the original series.

Jumping forward to the January 1955 ORER lists 3 series of car with
the same
dimensions as the 1931 entry
37002-37748, 303 cars, 4 hopper self clearing
44336, 1 car Flat bottom wood floor
45001-45599, 178 cars, Flat bottom steel floor
<Snip>
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Erie 10 panel high side gons with drop doors

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson wrote:
"In the Train Shed Cyclopedia (No. 46) reprint of the 1931 Car
Builders Cyclopedia there is a builders photo of Erie 44,000. A 10
panel high side 70-ton gon with 12 drop doors. I do not have an
ORER from the 1930's so I don't know how many cars were in the
original series."

2,000 cars, built by SSC 1923-24.

"I picked up a 1952 or later, photo of 37606 from Bob's photos last
weekend and it shows 4 sawtooth hopper bays, as expected. I assume
the cars listed in the 1955 ORER were modified and renumbered by the
Erie. Does anyone know when these modifications occurred, and know
of photos of other cars in the series, either the hopper version of
tight bottom."

The article "Erie's High Side Gondolas" by Richard Reichenbach
appeared in a past issue of the ELHS publication. (My copy does not
have a date.) According to him, 749 hopper conversions were done in
1934 at Dunmore Shops. 695 cars were still on the roster in 1953
but were gone by 1959.

More photos and a class diagram from the pay side of the RPI website:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/gons/Erie-gon-1925.jpg
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/gons/Erie-gon-hopper-
Mischler.jpg
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Hoppers/Quads/HT-quad-ex-
gon-Erie-diagram.jpg

This is the prototype for the Mantua (ex-Lindberg) high side gon.
AFAIK, this car has not been re-released by Model Power.
Ironically, this car was never offered by Mantua in Erie paint and
lettering.


Ben Hom


Re: Suggestions for decaling a spare IM USRA Composite gon?

Scott Pitzer
 

Very interesting... it tells us that circa 1955 one could find one of these cars carrying pipe, although the sides of the car might have gaps here and there. WHERE we might find it, is still open to question.
Scott Pitzer
=======

-----Original Message-----
From: rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
Sent: Mar 22, 2005 7:22 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Suggestions for decaling a spare IM USRA Composite gon?





"I have uploaded a photo of SL-SF 85954 to STMFPH that still has its
original wood sides." - Bob Witt"

"Benjamin Hom" wrote:

Bob, could you repost it to the files section of STMFPH? <
Ben, I completed that upload today. Still do not know the source of
the photo other than I found it in the "Internet ether".

Bob Witt







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Suggestions for decaling a spare IM USRA Composite gon?

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

"I have uploaded a photo of SL-SF 85954 to STMFPH that still has its
original wood sides." - Bob Witt"

"Benjamin Hom" wrote:

Bob, could you repost it to the files section of STMFPH? <
Ben, I completed that upload today. Still do not know the source of
the photo other than I found it in the "Internet ether".

Bob Witt


Erie 10 panel high side gons with drop doors

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I'm looking for some information on Erie 70 ton 10 panel high side gondolas
with drop doors.

In the Train Shed Cyclopedia (No. 46) reprint of the 1931 Car Builders
Cyclopedia there is a builders photo of Erie 44,000. A 10 panel high side
70-ton gon with 12 drop doors. I do not have an ORER from the 1930's so I
don't know how many cars were in the original series.

Jumping forward to the January 1955 ORER lists 3 series of car with the same
dimensions as the 1931 entry
37002-37748, 303 cars, 4 hopper self clearing
44336, 1 car Flat bottom wood floor
45001-45599, 178 cars, Flat bottom steel floor

I picked up a 1952 or later, photo of 37606 from Bob's photos last weekend
and it shows 4 sawtooth hopper bays, as expected. I assume the cars listed
in the 1955 ORER were modified and renumbered by the Erie. Does anyone know
when these modifications occurred, and know of photos of other cars in the
series, either the hopper version of tight bottom.

Does anyone have a 1958 or later ORER they could check for information on
the longevity of the car class?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Pennsylvania "Turtleback" Boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I did a little more checking on car 81861, it's racks were listed as removed
in the January 1955 ORER (Westerfield). Guess I know what number to put on
the Sunshine kit I picked up at the Kirkland Ohio train show on Sunday.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Pennsylvania "Turtleback" Boxcars



Shawn Beckert asked:
"This car, though, has a reweigh date of 12-59. Would it be safe to
say that at this late date the car was in general service with the
loading racks taken out?"

I replied:
"It's a safe assumption, though you can confirm this through the a
1959 ORER issue. If this car is still rack-equipped, it would be
noted in the Notes section following the car register in the PRR
section."

PRR 81861 has had its racks removed, as confirmed by the January 1959 ORER
(PRR Note 15.


Ben Hom






Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Pennsylvania "Turtleback" Boxcars

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Shawn Beckert asked:
"This car, though, has a reweigh date of 12-59. Would it be safe to
say that at this late date the car was in general service with the
loading racks taken out?"

I replied:
"It's a safe assumption, though you can confirm this through the a
1959 ORER issue. If this car is still rack-equipped, it would be
noted in the Notes section following the car register in the PRR
section."

PRR 81861 has had its racks removed, as confirmed by the January 1959 ORER
(PRR Note 15.


Ben Hom


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuild ends

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

I wrote:
"My bigger concerns with using the Tichy kit would be:

- Height
- Width
- End Pattern
- Roof

I'll investigate further after work tonight."

NYC 100146, the sole NYC rebuilt USRA DS boxcar
Data from Jan 1, 1954 equipment diagram
IH: 9 ft 4 in
EXW: 10 ft
End: 1/5/5/5 Murphy
Side: ?
Roof: ?
Door opening: 6 ft (type?)

PMcK&Y 83400-83891, Lots 630-B and 638-B, prototype for the Tichy rebuilt
boxcar kit
Data from Jan 1, 1954 equipment diagram
IH: 9 ft 4 in
EXW: 10 ft
End: 1/5/5/5 Murphy
Side: 8 panel riveted
Roof: Murphy Panel
Door opening: 6 ft (Youngstown door)

The Tichy kit (with underframe modifications) looks like a possibility for
this NYC one-off. Since Youngstown did this rebuild, one can reasonably
assume that the rebuilt USRA DS boxcar had 8 panel riveted sides and
Youngstown steel doors. I'm not as sure about the roof. At any rate, a
photo would be most helpful in confirming these assumptions.


Ben Hom


Re: Barge Full Of Boxcars

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

Also check out AMB. They have an ongoing HO scale rail-marine series
(http://www.laserkit.com/railmarine.htm)
<http://www.laserkit.com/railmarine.htm%29>

BTW, as noted, it is really two barges. The closer of the two appears
to be a simple 2-track barge however the spacing of the tracks on the
second barge offer the hint that it is a "station barge" with a
platform running between the two tracks.
Carfloats in New York Harbor were usually hauled in pairs with the bows
tied together and the tug wedged between the barges towards the aft. The
loading/unloading end of the carfloats was always the bow. In New York
Harbor, the track work on the float bridges and car floats were standard
in order to allow interchange. Feeding the float bridge were twin
tracks. On the left side, there would be points on the bridge to permit
cars to be loaded onto the middle of three tracks of a transfer car
float. (The frog was on the float.) This middle track, however, was not
universal. On certain floats, the middle track could be replaced with a
loading/unloading platform which made the float a station float.

The photographed Bush Terminal #44 appears to have been narrower in beam
than than the usual float in New York Harbor allowing only two tracks.
The track spacing at the bow, however, had to be similar to the three
track transfer float or the two track station float in order op permit
interchange. This is the first photo that I have seen of a New York
Harbor carfloat in which there were only two tracks with no platform in
the middle. The other float in the picture
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-b/btrr-b44amh.jpg could have been
either a "normal" two track station float or a three track transfer
float - track capacity on the middle track was less than the two outer
tracks. What is odd is that the loading switch crew did not balance the
load - both floats were bow heavy.

The most widely distributed photograph source for New York Harbor might
be the two Morning Sun volumes by Tom Flagg on the subject. The New York
Harbor coverage of Walthers' RAILROADING ON THE WATERFRONT should be
considered to be a mid western view, and not much of a source as to
operations in New York Bay.

Tim Gilbert


Re: 1957 Mason City shipments to Rath Packing in Waterloo, Iowa

earlyrail
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Clark Propst" <cepropst@n...> wrote:
CGW 86278 arrived April 25, 1957, soybean meal, may have originated on
the RI as they delivered it to Waterloo.
October 9, 1957, L&N 5233 carload of soybean meal, via RI into Waterloo.

I've been racking my brain trying to think of where the RI would get
the soybean meal. The soybean processing plant was on the CGW which
also went to Waterloo. Maybe the CGW didn't serve the Rath plant so
the 'bean plant' used a reciprocal switching arrangement in Mason City.
Clark Propst
Clark,

You need to download the CGW 1957 Inductrial Guide
<http://www.geocities.com/scotm2_50158/>

Rath in Waterloo was served by the IC and WATL and was open for
recipical switching.

Also of posible interest was Bordon's Soy Processing Co on the CRIP &
WATL

I hope this helps.

Howard Garner
down in the sunny south