Date   

Re: What Front range and CB&T kits have any value

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill McCoy asked:
"I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any
prototypes to be made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and
the CB&T 1944 AAR 40' box car shell? The frames and appliances are
worthless but the bodies look pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD
40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50' DDs welded and riveted."

The Front Range and C&BT Car Shops single door 40 ft postwar AAR boxcars
have been largely superceded by models currently available from Branchline,
Intermountain, and Red Caboose. If you have any C&BT 12-panel side cars
with 7 ft or 8 ft doors, I recommend hanging on to them as there is no other
kit available. As for the Front Range cars, I wasn't aware that they
offered the 40 ft single door cars with full sidesills. You might want to
hang on to them if you plan on doing any 1960s 40 ft cars, as the full
sidesill will save you some work depending on the prototype.

As Tim noted, you could replace the underframes, going as far as cutting out
the ones on the Front Range kit, but I caution you against the law of
diminishing returns. Why cut out a Front Range floor if the same prototype
can be modeled from a Branchline kit? I don't know about you, but my time's
well worth the delta between the selling price of that Front Range kit and
the price of a new Branchline kit. If your cars are in resalable condition,
I'd get rid of all but the ones I mentioned above.

BTW, Ed Hawkins wrote up how to correct underframes for 8 ft door cars:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/articles/btuframemain.html


"Also is there any prototype for the Central Valley underframes?"

The CV underframes are from their NP stock car kit. They were marketed as
replacements for Athearn, et. al. house car underframes; however, the
kingpin to striker measurement is 5 ft, which is incorrect for post-1932 AAR
boxcars. I purchased a bunch a long time ago to modify
Walthers/Train-Miniature X29s, but they don't really work for that as the
crossmember locations are different. They might work for other 1920s
prototype house cars after narrowing - double check from your prototype
information first though.


Ben Hom


Old D&RGW hopper cars

proto48er
 

I have two brass kits that need building. They are for PRR Glc
hopper cars. I already have two Glca hoppers and the PRR Glc's are
out of my time period (3/15/1948 to 4/15/1948). I would like to make
the following (standard gauge) cars from the kits:

(1) A "cut-off" D&RGW hopper from number series D&RGW #18200-18223.
These are shorter than the PRR cars and will be a challenge to
build. They were built in 1899-1900 by PSCC and rebuilt by D&RGW in
1926. The top 15" of the car has been cut off all around, making it
look more like a gondola than a hopper. These lasted into the 1950's
in small numbers (4 in service in 4/1948 ORER). The Midland Terminal
had a similar car (would be an easy conversion - it WAS an ex-PRR
Glc) that was also cut down and used as an ore car until 1947.
However, I do not think it was in interchange service. There is a
photo of it in the MT book. I have an excellent D&RGW diagram for
the cars, and I can do the conversion, but I need a PHOTO of the car
after the 1926 conversion.

(2) A "non-cut-off" D&RGW hopper from number series D&RGW #18224-
18271. This is the same car as in (1), but are in the original
configuration - ie., they are 15" taller. These were built by PSCC
in 1900 and rebuilt by D&RGW in 1926. In 4/1948, 3 cars were in the
ORER as hoppers and 6 cars were rostered as covered hoppers. The
covered hoppers were converted by D&RGW in 1942 by adding a wood roof
with 4 hatches (total). They were renumbered in 1942 as D&RGW #18300-
18315. Both of these types lasted into the early 1950's also.

My request is simple - DOES ANYONE HAVE A PHOTO of any of these
cars?? I searched the archive and came up with nothing.

They were probably in captive service in some out-of-the-way place in
Utah that was so ugly that no one took a picture of them - almost
certainly in ore service.

These are neat looking old cars. They are almost identical to the
PSCC cars built for UP, according to the diagrams for both. The UP
cars were out of service by 1945 - of course, there are lots of
photos of them. B&O had cars of similar length and design, but they
were more narrow for some odd reason, and did not make it into the
1940's. I believe that someone must have photographed them! They
were truly an anachronism in the late 1940's.

Thanks in advance for your help! A.T. Kott


Re: Bomb shipments

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 8, 2005, at 3:39 PM, Larry Smith wrote:


If I'm not mistaken the WRR reporting marks were used by the Warrior
River Railroad here in the Birmingham area. I also belive that Martin
has a model of the 32 AAR boxcar that thye had. As far as the W of A
being part of the Southern at one time, don't think so.
WRT CO and WRT for Warrior River Terminal, later IWC (Inland Waterways Corp) and FBL (Federal Barge Lines).

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: What Front range and CB&T kits have any value

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, the hands down best, inexpensive, 40 and 50 foot, noncushion
replacement underframes for postwar AAR box cars are made by Accurail.
If you are willing to chop out the floor of the Front Range cars, or
simply toss out the C&BT underframes, then the Accurail underframe
is almost a drop-in. Now, these underframes are technically only
correct for particular door widths, but if you can live with that
problem they're great. The Front Range body tooling was very good IMO.
Red Caboose redid the 40 foot cars and they're even better, but they
used the underframes from their 1937 cars! Branchline and Intermountain
make good postwar underframes too, but its not a complete floor + uf
like the Accurail.

The riveted 50 foot cars are great for... Southern Pacific! And only
a few others. The welded cars can be applied to a number of owners,
especially since narrowing the door opening or modeling a wider door
is pretty easy. I don't know about the 40 foot fishbelly off the top
of my head.

Now that I think of it, Red Caboose did at least two different styles
of tab sill for the 40 foot cars with 8 foot doors, something no one
else has done that I know of.

Tim

I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any
prototypes to be made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and
the CB&T 1944 AAR 40' box car shell. The frames and appliances are
worthless but the bodies look pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD
40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50' DDs welded and riveted. Also is
there any prototype for the Central Valley underframes?

Bill McCoy
Jax


What Front range and CB&T kits have any value

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any
prototypes to be made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and
the CB&T 1944 AAR 40' box car shell. The frames and appliances are
worthless but the bodies look pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD
40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50' DDs welded and riveted. Also is
there any prototype for the Central Valley underframes?

Bill McCoy
Jax


Bomb shipments

Larry Smith
 

If I'm not mistaken the WRR reporting marks were used by the Warrior River Railroad here in the Birmingham area. I also belive that Martin has a model of the 32 AAR boxcar that thye had. As far as the W of A being part of the Southern at one time, don't think so.

Larry Smith


Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

I was stationed on an ammo ship out of Concord in the mid seventies and
seem to remember six wheel Alco? switchers
making all the moves to the pier. I routinely saw all the pier
trackage but never saw the other end

Roger H.

On Feb 8, 2005, at 3:56 PM, Denny Anspach wrote:


About ten years ago, about fifteen of us took our track motorcars and
were treated to a comprehensive Sunday tour of all of the trackage in
then very active Concord Naval Weapons Station on the north side of
Concord, California. A short rail line connected with the adjacent
Port Chicago Naval Depot on SF Bay, where the ammunition ships were
loaded (and where the notorious WWII incident of the black stevedores
loading the ammunition ships took place).

It was a fascinating experience, hampered only by an absolute
prohibition on photography (very frustrating for a Sacramento Bee
newspaper reporter and photographer with me trying to write a feature
story!).

Virtually every single bit of internal and external transport or
movement of bombs and other ordnance was undertaken *only by rail*,
and this only in a vast fleet of meticulously-maintained
solid-bearinged silver boxcars that still had running boards, and (by
memory only) seemed to be similar to, if not PS-1s (perhaps someone
will know more in this regard). These boxcars were also principally
used as mobile storage, and the track layout was so designed.

There was track everywhere (101 miles of it in about 5000 acres). I
have never seen so many turnouts, diamonds (straight and curved), or
spurs anywhere. It was a boy's fantastic dream layout, given an
infinite number of tinplate turnouts, crossings, and track.

A given line would go along a corridor, and every so many hundred
feet, spurs would peel off right and left into street-railway type
curves, each spur ending in a thick concrete revetment surrounded on
two or three sides by very high berms. Along the hillsides, the
revetments would be cave-like. There seemed to be thousands of
these, each sized to hold one 40' boxcar. This is how the ordnance
was stored, ready to move!

The lines climbed up the sides of hills. They interconnected
everywhere. The maintenance of the track and roadbed was *perfect*.
Perfect clean ballast shaped into a sharp prism. Ties perfect. Not a
weed or blade of grass to be seen. All rail also "perfect" with no
low joints, or visible or palpable wear. The railroad's GM (a former
ATSF person) reminded us of the Zero Defect policy when one is moving
explosive devices, and even a simple bump, much less a minor
derailment was cause for the most intensive serious investigation, if
not discipline. 15 mph was the drop-dead speed limit (as it was for
us as well. Fouled spark plugs plagued us the whole day in this
regard!).

We were unable to take the line out onto the wharves (big
disappointment), the reason for which I never understood.

Currently, as I understand it, the Station is largely moth-balled,
and the port Depot is now an Army facility. I presume that the
hundreds of time-warp boxcars are probably still there, although I do
not know for certain.

Denny




--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento




Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: bomb shipments

Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "fredmit2000" <FredWMit@a...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Jack Wyatt" <cjwyatt@b...> wrote:
For your enjoyment and enlightenment:

Southern Railway train 1/50 departing Asheville, NC for Spencer,
NC
at 10:45
pm, 1/3/1944.

WRR <sic> 84221 <WABASH?>
One of the components of the old Southern was "Western Railway of
Alabama", but I don't know if it had its own reporting marks.
Someone
else might verify this one way or the other. I think Wabash was
always WAB.
Fred Mitchell, Dallas, TX
Reporting marks were W. of A. In the 1943 ORER they had no cars in
the 84000 series.
FWIW there was a Ware Shoals RR Co but it was a short connecting line
in S.C. and had no freight cars.
Looks like Wabash is still the best guess.
Bill Williams


Re: Box car interiors [Was: MILW Rib-Side cars]

ken_olson54022 <kwolson@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Jeff, the MILW made their own welded panel doors, which were
unusually
thin
and fit outside the upper door tracks. As a result, the widest
point
on
the cars wasn't the doors but the side ladders. By putting flush
panels
behind the ladders and grabs on the sides, it was possible to get
another
couple of inches of inside width without having the ladders
exceed the
then-current AAR clearance diagram.
Sounds brilliant on Milwaukee's part; but the AAR, like the
ARA
and MCB before them, had attempted to standardize interior
dimensions
of box cars for the convenience of shippers. You may think that an
enlargement couldn't hurt, but for those who pre-cut bracing and
other
dunnage for their loads, the Milwaukee cars would have been an
irritation.
Then the Milw. car interiors may have actually been different. In
the mid 70's I worked for a short while at the Andersen Window plant
in Bayport, Mn. - served by the Milwaukee Rd. The guys who loaded the
boxcars for shipment to wholesalers were all "old heads" who could
look at the order and figure out in their heads how to load the car
so that everything was as tight as possible to minimize damage. I
was told that they would only load to a certain group of ribside
boxes if at all possible, and Andersen Corp. was the reason that
these cars stayed in service as long as they did. They were preferred
to newer, cushioned underframed cars, etc.
Ken Olson
Western Wi.


Re: bomb shipments

Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
 

It seems obvious that during WWII, the AAR rules regarding return of
empties were not followed, at least for priority military shipments
Bill Williams


Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Michael Aufderheide
 

Denny,

Thank you for the fascinating account. I've found the
aerial of the place from 1993. See:

http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=10&X=1463&Y=10530&W=3&qs=%7cconcord%7cca%7c

Make sure you get the whole URL.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide
Chicago




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Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

About ten years ago, about fifteen of us took our track motorcars and were treated to a comprehensive Sunday tour of all of the trackage in then very active Concord Naval Weapons Station on the north side of Concord, California. A short rail line connected with the adjacent Port Chicago Naval Depot on SF Bay, where the ammunition ships were loaded (and where the notorious WWII incident of the black stevedores loading the ammunition ships took place).

It was a fascinating experience, hampered only by an absolute prohibition on photography (very frustrating for a Sacramento Bee newspaper reporter and photographer with me trying to write a feature story!).

Virtually every single bit of internal and external transport or movement of bombs and other ordnance was undertaken *only by rail*, and this only in a vast fleet of meticulously-maintained solid-bearinged silver boxcars that still had running boards, and (by memory only) seemed to be similar to, if not PS-1s (perhaps someone will know more in this regard). These boxcars were also principally used as mobile storage, and the track layout was so designed.

There was track everywhere (101 miles of it in about 5000 acres). I have never seen so many turnouts, diamonds (straight and curved), or spurs anywhere. It was a boy's fantastic dream layout, given an infinite number of tinplate turnouts, crossings, and track.

A given line would go along a corridor, and every so many hundred feet, spurs would peel off right and left into street-railway type curves, each spur ending in a thick concrete revetment surrounded on two or three sides by very high berms. Along the hillsides, the revetments would be cave-like. There seemed to be thousands of these, each sized to hold one 40' boxcar. This is how the ordnance was stored, ready to move!

The lines climbed up the sides of hills. They interconnected everywhere. The maintenance of the track and roadbed was *perfect*. Perfect clean ballast shaped into a sharp prism. Ties perfect. Not a weed or blade of grass to be seen. All rail also "perfect" with no low joints, or visible or palpable wear. The railroad's GM (a former ATSF person) reminded us of the Zero Defect policy when one is moving explosive devices, and even a simple bump, much less a minor derailment was cause for the most intensive serious investigation, if not discipline. 15 mph was the drop-dead speed limit (as it was for us as well. Fouled spark plugs plagued us the whole day in this regard!).

We were unable to take the line out onto the wharves (big disappointment), the reason for which I never understood.

Currently, as I understand it, the Station is largely moth-balled, and the port Depot is now an Army facility. I presume that the hundreds of time-warp boxcars are probably still there, although I do not know for certain.

Denny




--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


WAG to L&NW hand-me-down?

Fred Mitchell
 

The Accurail website shows three single sheathed boxcar models
lettered for
FtDDM&S, L&NW and WAG (www.accurail.com/accurail/art/3300/3367.jpg).
I understand these roads had a common
ownership, and in Mainline Modeler, Aug 86, there is a picture of WAG
5014, which was actually a former B&M 1924 ARA Standard boxcar (angle
braces run the wrong way on the Accurail model). What I want to know
is, did L&NW actually receive such a car, either direct from B&M or
handed down from WAG? Hoping someone with an Equipment Register can
answer, as I'd like to model it if it actually ever existed.

I have a couple of pictures of L&NW 1932 ARA or X-29 cars numbered in
6000 series, so L&NW 5004 seems to be a logical number.

If you look at the Accurail pictures, it's embarrassingly clear that
the odd slanted lettering that spells out the full name of FtD..etc
and L&NW would fit the angle braces if they were correct, as can be
seen in the MM picture of WAG 5014.
Fred Mitchell, Dallas, TX


[Espee] Bay Area Prototype Modelers Meet - April 30, 2005

Jim Scott
 

I just got off the phone with Rob Sarberenyi and we were talking
about the Bay Area Prototype Modelers Meet scheduled for April 20,
2005.

He isn't a member of this list but he asked me to post the following
because of the interest that has been shown for the last couple of
days.

He told me that this meet is definately on and will cover many time
eras. It will probably have many displays of modern equipment but
will also have displays of steam and transition equipment also. As
he said it will depend on the interest and what the modelers bring to
display.

He said that if you had any questions that he would be happy to
answer anyone who would send him an email. His address is :
espeef5@.... He will be out of town until this weekend but
will get back with you as soon as he can. He also said that there is
a website in development and it will be active shortly.

Jim Scott
Lompoc, CA.

======================================================================
Rob Sarberenyi's original email:

I know some of you will receive this message several times, sorry for
the cross posts to the various lists...

Mark you calendars to attend the second annual San Francisco Bay Area
Prototype Modelers (BAPM) meet in Newark, CA. We've reserved the
space and are planning for a great get together! Spend a day with
local prototype railroad modelers, visit with and see the
manufacturer tables, attend some great clinics, and enjoy a fun-
filled raffle!

We welcome modelers of all roads, scales, and eras.

What: Bay Area Prototype Modelers Meet 2005

When: Saturday, April 30, 2005
10:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Where: George M. Silliman Activity Center
6800 Mowry Avenue
Newark CA 94560

Map: http://shorterlink.com/?4I6JKO

Registration: Before April 16: $15.00
After April 16: $18.00

Bringing together railroad prototype modelers from across Northern
California and Northern Nevada, this event will feature:
- Clinics on prototype and modeling subjects
- Display tables for models - and bring along those unfinished
projects!
- Manufacturer tables - see the latest parts and kits
- Raffle for great prizes!

For a look back at BAPM 2003 held in conjunction with CP MaggieFest,
visit
these sites:
www.geocities.com/crimlawhelp/cpmf
http://www.geocities.com/crimlawhelp/cpmfabout.html
http://www.pbase.com/espeeboy/cpmf03_bapm
http://www.pbase.com/espeeboy/cpmf03

For more information on BAPM 2005, please contact:

Rob Sarberenyi
37171 Sycamore St. #1427
Newark CA 94560

Email: espeef5@...

Include a SASE with written inquiries.

Make checks or money orders payable to: Rob Sarberenyi c/o BAPM
You can also pre-pay via PayPal, contact espeef5@... for
details:

When registering be sure to include your:
Name
Address
City
State
ZIP
Phone (optional)
Email

The local BAPM Organizing Committee includes:
- Elizabeth Allen
- Thom Anderson
- Ryan Martin
- Bob Pires
- Dave Pires
- Rob Sarberenyi
- Harry Wong

Additional resources include:
- Tim Costello
- Dave Hussey
- Brian Rutherford

We are currently preparing topics for clinics/presentations.
Additional
details on BAPM 2005 will be available soon.


Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@...


Re: GBW Reefers (WAS: Branchline Blueprint reefer paint)

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Thanks!
Not sure if it's "A" or "B", but I'll use the letter code that
is on the NWX car boxes.

While I'm at it, does anyone know of a source, book or photos,
for some good pictures to base a model of the 36 foot bunkerless
reefers which the Milwaukee Road used to ship Schlitz out of the
Beer Line? I think the reporting marks were DSDX (?)
I checked with Bob's Photo at Springfield, but they didn't have
any of that series.

Thanks again!

Phil Buchwald



--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@o...> wrote:
Phil Buchwald writes:

....I have a couple of these reefers, painted
in the Green Bay & Western scheme. The ones for URTX/MILW and NWX
have a letter "A" or "B" on the box to tell you which of the
optional ice hatch hardware parts to use. There is no such letter
on
the GBW boxes, and the instruction sheets are the same as on the
standard cars (the GBW was a limited run, so the instruction sheet
is understandable). The only photos I have of these cars are from
low angle....
Could anyone give me a hint as to which latches to use on the
GBW
cars?
The photos I have show these cars to be identical to the NWX cars,
hatch
covers included. That's not surprising, since WRX was a
subsidiary of NWX;
though the corporate offices were in Green Bay, the Treasurer was
located
at the same address as the NWX corporate offices in Chicago.
Follow the
money, as the old saying goes.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Pacific Northwest Railroad Prototype Modelers Meet

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

You are invited to attend:

Rails By The Bay

A Pacific Northwest Railroad Prototype Modelers Meet

Saturday, June 25, 2005, 9am to 6pm
Bellingham, Washington

Presented by: Brian Rutherford, Rick Selby, and Richard
Yaremko

This Railroad Prototype Modeling (RPM) event is open to all
modelers and will feature railroads of the Pacific Northwest, but
models of all railroads are welcome. You've heard about it, now
come see what RPM and Free-Mo are about!

Join in a full day of activities including:
  • Model displays and dioramas
  • Clinics (topics to be announced)
  • Free-Mo modular layout display area
  • Social discussion area
 
Where: The Best Western Lakeway Inn
714 Lakeway Dr., Bellingham, WA 98226
Located at Exit 253, right off Interstate 5
Hotel: 360-671-1011, http://www.bellingham-hotel.com/
 
This event is open to all model railroaders. We encourage
attendees to display their model work (finished and in-progress),
to learn and share modeling tips and techniques, and to
socialize with other members of the Pacific Northwest model
railroading community. You are encouraged to bring your
locomotives, rolling stock, structures, vehicles, dioramas, and
Free-Mo modules to display them in a non-competitive
environment. You will also have the opportunity to meet and
socialize with your fellow hobbyist to discuss modeling
techniques, the prototype, and any other topics relating to
prototype railroad modeling. Mark your calendar now!

Admission is $15, with a discount price of $12 for those who bring
at least one model or module for display.

For questions or more information, see:
Web site: http://home.centurytel.net/pnw_rpm/
Email: pnw_rpm 'at' yahoo 'dot' com
New Yahoo Discussion Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/pnw_rpm


Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Dear Stem fans,
Sorry for the strange message. My finger slipped and the reply from another message went to you.
Patricia Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Westerfield
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ordnance Works and Freight Cars


Thank you for the clarification of your order. We are a bit behind, so it may be a week or so before we can ship this.
Patricia W.


Re: Ordnance Works and Freight Cars

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Thank you for the clarification of your order. We are a bit behind, so it may be a week or so before we can ship this.
Patricia W.

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth Groff
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ordnance Works and Freight Cars


Schuyler,

No, none went off. Once the contractors found the first bomb, they moved
very carefully. The ordinance was defused by military experts and taken
away. IIRC, they turned up about a dozen bombs. For all I know, there
might still be some out there.

This was a side issue to a steam-era posting, but is way beyond the
scope of our group. If anyone wants to continue this sub-thread, let's
do it by private e-mail to keep Mike from having a coronary.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Garth Groff
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the UP was still finding unexploded 500 pound bombs [in Roseville]
>>when they rebuilt the yard in the 1990s.
>>
>>
>
>Gee, were there any "incidents?"
>
>SGL
>
>


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Re: bomb shipments

cv_sne@...
 

Chuck,

Thanks for clearing something up for me.

'Cause I couldn't for the life of me figure out how sparks from brake shoes could ignite a dormant weapon. Of course they couldn't -- but the shoes igniting the wood floor the bomb was sitting on could most certainly end up in the daily Fleet SITREP passed around the middle of the five-walled squirrel cage on the banks of the Potomac!

Marty


Re: bomb shipments

raildata@...
 

Well you know me...a goldmine of useless info! I used to get allo thsoe
reports when I was on the county Planning board. I think the phtos of bomb assy
and loading were at the navy facility at Crane, IN.

Not sure if those spark shield were std equip on box cars, but I don't think
they were gov't cars.

CY

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