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Historical Societies was Re: What year would steel roofwalks appear?

jerryglow2
 

It's a shame the NKPT&HS (I'm sure others do it as well) prostitute
themselves into a project such as this. I thought the intent was to
improve accuracy - not just get their favorite road's name on another
model. If this is their level of accuracy how can we trust a product
that has been "run by them" prior to release?

Jerry in Fla

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
A spreadsheet listing NKP models on the NKPT&HS website indicates
that these are custom decorated models from Third Rail Graphics.
The
prototype number series are NKP 22000-22349 and NKP 3700-3727. I
have not been able to locate any prototype photos online; however,
these models raise the following questions:

1. A build date of 10-29 is inappropriate for these models as they
represent post-WWII cars (improved Dreadnaught ends, diagonal panel
roofs). The one exception is that it's possible that these could
be
older cars rebuilt with new steel bodies after WWII, but I really
need a prototype photo of these cars to make the call.

2. At any rate, no matter what you do with the running boards,
these
cars are inappropriate for a pre-WWII layout as the improved
Dreadnaught ends and diagonal panel roof on these cars haven't been
introduced at this point in time.


Ben Hom
Re: MDW

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Aug 11, 2004, at 7:17 AM, Clark Propst wrote:

  We were on vacation to Voyageurs National Park a couple weeks ago.
One afternoon is was too hot to fish, so we went to International
Falls. (When have you heard the word hot in a sentence with
International Falls?) Anyway, next to the border crossing is a trinket
shop call Border Bobs which is a must stop for my wife. Across the
street is the yard and shops of the MEW. They still run a couple of
S2s which sound the same as my beloved M&StL RS1s. But, behind one of
the buildings I could see half of a rebuilt box car they appear to be
using as a tool car. It has 4/4 dreadnaught square ends and a
Youngstown corrugated door. Anyone know anything about this car? We
will be going through "The Falls" again in a few weeks. I will try to
get a photo of the entire car.
Clark:

It could be a Soo 1932 ARA car. If you can get some details about the
type of roof, what the side sills look like and if you can find out the
IW, those details will help.

Regards,
Ted Culotta
IMWX Lackawanna Box Cars

buchwaldfam <buchwaldfam@...>
 

Sorry, I always am asking questions rather than providing much
input...
I bought a half dozen or so IMWX 1937 AAR box cars in pre-"Route
of Phoebe Snow" markings. I got them cheap and my intent was to strip
and repaint them. However, the markings are very well done, and it
would be a shame to not leave at least some of them as they are.
(Some are duplicate car numbers, so no decision needed on those)
The question is: The build date is 1940. Would the old style
markings with only the "LACKAWANA" in Roman lettering have survived
until at least 1950?
One magazine reference to that I have (specifically talking to
double sheathed wood boxes)states that DL&W repainted their entire
fleet to the billboard "Phoebe Snow" scheme by the end of WWII. Did
they make a concerted effort to recall and route all of their cars
through the paint shop, or were they painted by chance as they
returned for repairs?

As always,
Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Phil Buchwald
Re: What year would steel roofwalks appear?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Dean Payne wrote:
"I have a set of two NKP 40' steel DD auto box cars put out by the
Nickel Plate Historical and Technical society, 22101 and 3710, both
with build dates of 10-29. These (Front Range?) kits have steel roof
walks, but I am thinking that 1929 is too early for steel roof walks,
and these must represent walks replaced during a shopping. The
reweigh date is 10-52, so that makes sense. I am interested in
replacing the roof walks, which are too thick, and would prefer to
model them in pre-WWII condition."

A spreadsheet listing NKP models on the NKPT&HS website indicates
that these are custom decorated models from Third Rail Graphics. The
prototype number series are NKP 22000-22349 and NKP 3700-3727. I
have not been able to locate any prototype photos online; however,
these models raise the following questions:

1. A build date of 10-29 is inappropriate for these models as they
represent post-WWII cars (improved Dreadnaught ends, diagonal panel
roofs). The one exception is that it's possible that these could be
older cars rebuilt with new steel bodies after WWII, but I really
need a prototype photo of these cars to make the call.

2. At any rate, no matter what you do with the running boards, these
cars are inappropriate for a pre-WWII layout as the improved
Dreadnaught ends and diagonal panel roof on these cars haven't been
introduced at this point in time.


Ben Hom
What year would steel roofwalks appear?

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I have a set of two NKP 40' steel DD auto box cars put out by the
Nickel Plate Historical and Technical society, 22101 and 3710, both
with build dates of 10-29. These (Front Range?) kits have steel roof
walks, but I am thinking that 1929 is too early for steel roof walks,
and these must represent walks replaced during a shopping. The
reweigh date is 10-52, so that makes sense. I am interested in
replacing the roof walks, which are too thick, and would prefer to
model them in pre-WWII condition.
Dean Payne
MDW

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

We were on vacation to Voyageurs National Park a couple weeks ago. One afternoon is was too hot to fish, so we went to International Falls. (When have you heard the word hot in a sentence with International Falls?) Anyway, next to the border crossing is a trinket shop call Border Bobs which is a must stop for my wife. Across the street is the yard and shops of the MEW. They still run a couple of S2s which sound the same as my beloved M&StL RS1s. But, behind one of the buildings I could see half of a rebuilt box car they appear to be using as a tool car. It has 4/4 dreadnaught square ends and a Youngstown corrugated door. Anyone know anything about this car? We will be going through "The Falls" again in a few weeks. I will try to get a photo of the entire car.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
Brake schedule

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

In John Corns' book "The Wheeling and Lake Erie Railway Vol. 2" there
is a photograph of a brake schedule plate that looks somewhat like
this (crudely represented here):

, , , |-----------------| ,
7 5 ½ 17 ¼ 10 11 14 21 ½
|--- | |-------- | |-------- | >|
14 11 10 17 ¼ 5 ½ 7 19
|___________| |___________________________|

Can anyone help me decipher how to read that? Is it a representation
of the brake rigging? Do the numbers refer to years or months or
what?
Dean Payne
For Sale--Accurail Undecorated car kits

prrpeter <paintplustrains@...>
 

List,

I have the following undecorated Accurail car kits for $5.00
each or 12
for $55.00.These are great for kit bashing and donor parts. You may
take any quantity of any car to make a dozen. Shipping will be
quoted on each order (please provide me with your zip code and I
will advise you of shipping and insurance charges).

Accurail # 2500 50 ton USRA hopper
Accurail # 3200 AAR 40' boxcar
Accurail # 3400 PS-1 40' boxcar
Accurail # 4400 40' SS boxcar, wood doors and ends
Accurail # 4200 40' SS boxcar, wood doors and steel ends
Accurail # 4400 40' SS boxcar, steel doors and ends

Thanks for looking,
Pete Reinhold

Paint Plus Trains
375 Fourth Street
Prairie Du Sac, WI 53578
paintplustrains@...
608-643-4325
MRBX reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

The Reading had some ice reefers with R+2/4 ends and plug
doors and MRBX reporting marks. These are listed under MDT
so I was wondering if these were the same/similar to any
other group of MDT ice reefers. What type of roof did they
have? I have an Ebay scan of a partial photo of MRBX #110
from Charles Houser. (Impeccable sources, no?) These MRBX
cars were in two groups 100-199 (5 ft doors) and 200-299
(8 ft doors). Anyone know when they first appeared on the
roster, and why the Reading would want ice reefers in the
first place?

Tim O'Connor
Re: Standard Steel Car Company flat cars...

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Jack

Paul Hobbs lives in New Zealand, which has not been a part of Australia
since 1840, thus putting it outside the scope of the STMFC. Bit like saying
the U.S. is still a British colony :-)

Not wishing to start a trans-Tasman battle but Australia is the little
island off New Zealand's west coast.

Regards

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland
N Z

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Burgess" <jack@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Standard Steel Car Company flat cars...


The power of the Internet comes through again!....someone on this list
(thank you) forwarded my question about the Standard Steel Car Company
flat
cars on to Paul Hobbs in Australia (I was working on getting Paul's
address
at the time) and Paul has already sent me an SP&S freight car diagram for
these cars. The dimensions that I have for the YV crane tender car check
out
and it looks like the YV also bought one of these cars from the NP.....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com








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Re: Standard Steel Car Company flat cars...

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

The power of the Internet comes through again!....someone on this list
(thank you) forwarded my question about the Standard Steel Car Company flat
cars on to Paul Hobbs in Australia (I was working on getting Paul's address
at the time) and Paul has already sent me an SP&S freight car diagram for
these cars. The dimensions that I have for the YV crane tender car check out
and it looks like the YV also bought one of these cars from the NP.....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
Re: Update: St. Louis Railroad Prototype Modeler's Meet

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Ken and others:

Ooops, I was thinking of a different location. Sorry for the confusion
regarding the meeting in OFALLON, ILLINOIS.

Still looks like it will be a great meet.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: kenedmier@... [mailto:kenedmier@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Update: St. Louis Railroad Prototype Modeler's Meet


In a message dated 8/10/2004 8:44:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ZOE@... writes:

The St. Louis meet sounds great. Not to nit pick (I hat that) but
wouldn't 18 miles EAST of St. Louis put you someplace in Illinois


It is in Illinois! Look at the address:

Katy Cavins Recreation Center, 308 East 5th Street,
O'Fallon, IL 62269. O'Fallon is about 18 miles east
of downtown St. Louis by I-55/70 and I-64 in St. Clair
County.

Ken Edmier








Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Update: St. Louis Railroad Prototype Modeler's Meet

Greg Martin
 

Kevin writes...

Mont,
O'Fallon is in Illinois (used to live there).

Regards,
Kevin Lafferty<

Mont,

Fear not I made the same mistake... I ship carloads to O'Fallon all the time... urh, uh... the one on the other side of the MISSISSIPPI... YIKES !

Greg Martin
Re: Weights of gons, and car condition

Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc. <elden.gatwood@...>
 

Tony;
Thanks, I hadn't even thought of that one.

This same guy speculated that things like brake pad wear and lost of
structural component thickness and paint contributed to the loss of weight.

As pointed out, once they sandblasted it, replaced worn parts, and painted
and covered surfaces in asphaltum, it got heavier again.

BTW, I have copies of the PRR painting instructions for various dates, and
they applied more coats of more varied products in earlier years than they
did later on (late 50's on). Like going from two coats of fcc to one. Do
you think this was because of the increasing quality of surface treatments,
or also deteriorating finances?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:34 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Weights of gons, and car condition

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
I was told by an older
gent that did repairs/re-weighs on cars that they generally came into
the
shops lighter than when they had originally gone out. Like when they
re-weighed them, they were usually lighter by at least a hundred
pounds.
Hard to believe, but apparently true.
Wheel wear is one candidate to explain this. If you look up the
allowable wheel wear and calculate the volume lost, then convert to
weight, you get a few hundred pounds.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





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Re: Weights of gons, and car condition

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
I was told by an older
gent that did repairs/re-weighs on cars that they generally came into the
shops lighter than when they had originally gone out. Like when they
re-weighed them, they were usually lighter by at least a hundred pounds.
Hard to believe, but apparently true.
Wheel wear is one candidate to explain this. If you look up the allowable wheel wear and calculate the volume lost, then convert to weight, you get a few hundred pounds.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: What's all that tiny lettering say?

Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc. <elden.gatwood@...>
 

Bill;
Can you tell us what size lettering you can duplicate on your models and
still be legible? I am astounded at what I can see, but have heard from
some that things like re-pack data are just too small to be done legibly at
(what, 1"?) realistic proportions. Is this true?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: cf5250 [mailto:timboconnor@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What's all that tiny lettering say?

Bill Schneider wrote

When we did these cars Ed Hawkins went over the builder's photos
with a loupe and came up with this:

THIS CAR EQUIPPED WITH
CONSOLIDATED AUTOMATIC BRAKE
SLACK ADJUSTER ...

Thanks Bill, and Ed, for that. So the question is, did you actually
put this stencil on your models? I can't recall at the moment if I
got one of those C&NW or CMO kits -- I may have skipped over them
because I already had the Sunshine mini-kit.

Tim O.






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Re: What's all that tiny lettering say?

Bill Schneider <branch@...>
 

Yep.

So the question is, did you actually
put this stencil on your models?
Re: What's all that tiny lettering say?

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill Schneider wrote

When we did these cars Ed Hawkins went over the builder's photos
with a loupe and came up with this:

THIS CAR EQUIPPED WITH
CONSOLIDATED AUTOMATIC BRAKE
SLACK ADJUSTER ...

Thanks Bill, and Ed, for that. So the question is, did you actually
put this stencil on your models? I can't recall at the moment if I
got one of those C&NW or CMO kits -- I may have skipped over them
because I already had the Sunshine mini-kit.

Tim O.
Re: Weights of gons, and car condition

Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc. <elden.gatwood@...>
 

Brian;
I'd love to see that photo if you ever find it. BTW, I was told by an older
gent that did repairs/re-weighs on cars that they generally came into the
shops lighter than when they had originally gone out. Like when they
re-weighed them, they were usually lighter by at least a hundred pounds.
Hard to believe, but apparently true. That is actually why (I've been told)
some shippers used to pay for a car to be re-weighed before loading. Often
the car was lighter than originally stenciled, so they didn't have to pay
for a couple hundred pounds of supposed product they didn't contribute to
gross weight.

In the meantime, I am going to beat up some more gons. I'm working on a PRR
G29B with wooden side inserts. Ought to be cool.

Have a great week!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: dti_nut [mailto:Brian_Everett@...]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weights of gons, and car condition

Eldon,

Someone once showed me a photo of either a C&O or N&W hopper car that
had ripped holes in the side, stuffed with hay to keep the coal from
falling out.

Regards,
Brian Everett

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc."
<elden.gatwood@t...> wrote:
All;
Oh, and another thing. I had several people reply to me that my
split-sided
G25 gon (in TKM) needed a bad order sign on it. Granted. But, when
I was
growing up, you wouldn't have BELIEVED the kind of cars that they had
running around that hadn't been taking off-line. Split sides,
knocked out
ends, huge rips at the floor level in gons, rust holes, holes in wooden
sides, missing flooring, and the ubiquitous holes in hopper sides
stuffed
with rags. No, this wasn't just PC, or even that late. Has anybody
modeled
any of these features? Were they found in other areas?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc. [mailto:elden.gatwood@t...]
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:32 AM
To: 'STMFC@...'; smithbf@m...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Weights of gons, and car condition

Folks;
One strange process I witnessed has always had me wondering what
effect this
had on freight car re-weighs.

I used to watch crane operators drop things from great heights into
gondolas. Sometimes the magnet, some times scrap.

The resulting shower of rust, metal fragments, and wood from the car
sides
and underframe was a strange sight. They actually created an
outline of the
car on the ground, composed of former pieces of the cars! Does
anyone know
if this was something that could affect the weight of the car over time?

I also wanted to ask if the massive deterioration of cars that I saw was
largely a feature of the area in which I lived (Pittsburgh and
vicinity), or
was the horrible condition of gons, and sometimes flats and boxcars,
something one saw everywhere? Did the steel and scrap industry get the
worst cars the RRs could provide? Kind of like those offal and hide
cars?

I have never modeled a gondola in the condition that I saw many cars. I
remember numerous gons that had very large portions of the (wooden)
flooring
completely missing. Although I have done this on a very limited
basis (a
PRR GR, a G35, and one other gon), breaking portions of the flooring
out and
adding underbody details to show through, I have never gone all the
way with
this type of project. I expect I'd have to make a new underframe in
places
to make this work. What are your thoughts on this? Are there any good
photos out there that show really horrible gon floors?

Elden Gatwood

...) The weight of steel cars DID
change, which is precisely why other steel cars have a reweigh interval
of 30 months (up to 1948 and 48 months after that). Weight is affected
by paint (up to 200 lbs per repaint!), repairs, modifications (e.g. K
brakes to AB brakes) etc... The reweigh requirement provides shippers
with an accurate tare weight, so that they know that they are only
being charged for the weight of the shipment.










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Re: Helium tank cars

C J Wyatt
 

<<
I didn't stick my head inside any in 1945, but the
ones I saw in California sure looked gray to me. Gotta
remember, navy had lots of "battle ship gray".
Al

I suspect aluminum during WWII was used for making airplanes, rather than
pigment for paint. I know of at least two railroads that dropped aluminum
paint from their diesels during the war, one of which did not return to the
use of aluminum paint after the war.

Jack Wyatt
161461 - 161480 of 194744