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Re: Union 76 8,000 Gallon Tank car Paint/Lettering

Richard Hendrickson
 

Tom Houle asks:

4) Are the Champ decal car numbers U. O. C. X 10295, 10297, and 10299
correct for this car?
Not for an 8K gal. car. The cars in the UOCX 10001-10370 series were all
mid-1920s GATC 10K gal. cars. Union's 8K gal. cars were numbered 8002-8082
and were AC&F Type 21s as modeled by Life-Like in HO scale.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Re: Union 76 8,000 Gallon Tank car Paint/Lettering

gene48@...
 

Charlie:
Was that an 8k gallon or 10K? I have looked at the old Athearn ad many times but it is pretty fuzzy.
I guess consulting the ORER is one way to resolve the question.
Union still uses a shade of Royal Blue on their property. I wonder how close it is to the original shade?
Gene

-------------- Original message --------------


The only prototype photo I know of was used in the Athearn adds of many
years ago. If I can find it, I'll send you a scan from the add. Most of
your questions I think can be answered by the photo. As for shade of
blue --- Athearn used a deep blue as I recall on their model from the 1950s.
That is darker than "sky blue" and lighter than "navy".
Charlie


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Houle"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 4:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Union 76 8,000 Gallon Tank car Paint/Lettering




I'm finally getting to the restoration of an ancient Thomas O scale
brass single dome tank car. I plan to strip, repair, and paint the
car paint in the Union 76 overall blue color scheme and letter it
with Champ white and orange decals, which I was fortunate to find. I
have these questions:

1) Anyone know what Scale Coat, Floquil, or Badger Model Flex paint
matches the overall blue? Were the walkways, ladders, and hand rails
also blue? Were the trucks and frame members black?

2) The NEB & W guide to Athearn Cars says the dome on this car
Athearn #A1504) was painted orange. I had assumed the dome was blue.

3) Are there prototype pics of this car?

4) Are the Champ decal car numbers U. O. C. X 10295, 10297, and 10299
correct for this car?

Thanks,
Tom Houle









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Re: Union 76 8,000 Gallon Tank car Paint/Lettering

Charles Morrill <badlands@...>
 

The only prototype photo I know of was used in the Athearn adds of many years ago. If I can find it, I'll send you a scan from the add. Most of your questions I think can be answered by the photo. As for shade of blue --- Athearn used a deep blue as I recall on their model from the 1950s. That is darker than "sky blue" and lighter than "navy".
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Houle" <thoule@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 4:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Union 76 8,000 Gallon Tank car Paint/Lettering




I'm finally getting to the restoration of an ancient Thomas O scale
brass single dome tank car. I plan to strip, repair, and paint the
car paint in the Union 76 overall blue color scheme and letter it
with Champ white and orange decals, which I was fortunate to find. I
have these questions:

1) Anyone know what Scale Coat, Floquil, or Badger Model Flex paint
matches the overall blue? Were the walkways, ladders, and hand rails
also blue? Were the trucks and frame members black?

2) The NEB & W guide to Athearn Cars says the dome on this car
Athearn #A1504) was painted orange. I had assumed the dome was blue.

3) Are there prototype pics of this car?

4) Are the Champ decal car numbers U. O. C. X 10295, 10297, and 10299
correct for this car?

Thanks,
Tom Houle









Yahoo! Groups Links
Union 76 8,000 Gallon Tank car Paint/Lettering

Tom Houle <thoule@...>
 

I'm finally getting to the restoration of an ancient Thomas O scale
brass single dome tank car. I plan to strip, repair, and paint the
car paint in the Union 76 overall blue color scheme and letter it
with Champ white and orange decals, which I was fortunate to find. I
have these questions:

1) Anyone know what Scale Coat, Floquil, or Badger Model Flex paint
matches the overall blue? Were the walkways, ladders, and hand rails
also blue? Were the trucks and frame members black?

2) The NEB & W guide to Athearn Cars says the dome on this car
Athearn #A1504) was painted orange. I had assumed the dome was blue.

3) Are there prototype pics of this car?

4) Are the Champ decal car numbers U. O. C. X 10295, 10297, and 10299
correct for this car?

Thanks,
Tom Houle
TC RPM

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Dakota County (Twin Cities, Minnesota)
Prototype Modelers Seminar
Saturday, February 26th, 2005

Rosemount Community Center
13885 South Robert Trail
Rosemount, MN
(One mile north of County Rd 42 on State Highway 3)
9:00 AM SET UP 10:00 AM FIRST CLINIC

Charles Derus---Modelers Choice assembly techniques
Dennis C. Henry---A Brief History of St. Paul Union Depot
Mike Moore---CGW Freight Car Clinic
Jeff Otto---About Track, Misunderstood Prototype, Underrated Model
Bill Kuebler---The Northern Pacific North Coast Limited

Model display room BRING MODELS!
Bringing a lot? No Problem, just call ahead or email and be sure to
get
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See the all new Minnesota HO scale Free_Mo modular layout

For information, contact:
Greg Smith 952-891-1013 email rpm_mn@...

See pictures of the 2004 meet at
http://greg7749.fotopic.net/show_collection.php?id=123358
Visit our group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Minnesota_RPM/

Adults $10 at the door
Kids under 12 freee
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions

Ed Hawkins
 

On Thursday, January 13, 2005, at 11:14 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Guys,

Since Kadee's Buffalo Creek PS-1's are apparently not to
be found, what can be used instead? Someone mentioned
that were AAR-type Buffalo Creek cars as well as PS-1's.
What kind of AAR cars? Will a kit from Red Caboose or
Intermountain work just as well for an accurate model?

Thanks,
Shawn Beckert
Shawn,
AC&F built two groups of 500 cars each and these have been shown in RMJ (See July & October 1990 and April 1994 RMJ).

The #1500-1999 cars, built 3-53, came with 12-panel welded sides, 7' door openings and Youngstown doors, R+3/4 "dartnot" ends, and diagonal panel roofs. Hopefully we will see accurate models (from an unnamed model manufacturer) of these in the relatively near future. The #2500-2999 cars, built 6-56, had 10-panel riveted sides, 7' door openings and Youngstown doors, R+3/4 late Improved Dreadnaught ends, and diagonal panel roofs. Branchline Trains offers this model, however, be advised the background of the flour bag should be brown instead of bright red.

Like the PS-1s, both series had sides painted metallic brown with black ends, underframes, and trucks. Unpainted galvanized roofs. The BCK insignia was in three colors: white (flour bag, outer border, and "FLOUR" stencils), black (circular background for the flour bag), and brown ("BUFFALO CREEK" stencils, and inner circular background for the word "FLOUR"). The 1956-built cars had yellow journal box covers.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Re: freight car totals in the '49 CBC

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

ed_mines wrote:


The '49 CBC has freight car totals for class 1 RRs including the
years 1945-1947.

I have the following questions.

- Comparing the box car totals for 1945 &'46, it appears that the
number of auto box car decreased by about 50K and the regular box
car total increased by almost an identical amount. Anyone know the
reason for this?
Ed,

The table you are citing was on page 69 of the 1949 CBC which provided
the the total of Revenue Freight Cars owned by Class II RR's in the US.
The totals for Boxcars (Plain, Ventilated & Furniture); Automobile
Boxcars & Automobile Furniture Cars; & the sum of the two are shown below:

Year Boxcars Auto. Total Boxcars
1944 629,486 112,961 742,447
1945 624,419 115,505 739,924
1946 675,585 50,484 726,069
1947 675,246 49,110 724,356
1948 679,872 49,765 729,637

It would appear that during 1946, about 65,000 auto cars were
"redefined" as General Service Boxcars. If you review a late 1940's
ORER, you may note a lot of "XM" boxcars with wide door openings (10'
plus). The amount of Total Boxcars did not change that much.

What may have occurred that this 1946 transfer was in recognition that
the 65,000 transfers no longer had the characteristics of an "automobile
car" which the CBC's glossary defines on page 9 as "A boxcar for
carrying automobiles & having exceptionally wide doors...." while a
boxcar was defined on page 12 as " A car with sides enclosed and having
a roof; doors are placed in the sides or sides & ends. Used for general
service and especially for lading which must be protected from the
weather."

This was during the box car shortage which had
special interchange rules, right?
What special interchange rules are you referring to?

I know a lot of secondary doors
were sealed during WWII.

- The number of gons was more than 40% the number of box cars. Very
rarely is the proportion this high in actual trains. I think most
customers recieved home road gons for loading and off road gons were
returned empty, at least in the east. I've seen a couple of photos
of trains with a lot of empty gons of every size and description
apparently empty.
Your loading scenario is at variance with the First Rule of Interchange:
- that of giving precedence to loading foreign car empties before using
home road cars. Many home road gons were temporarily placed in MOW
service. Another reason was that they were not loaded as much, and did
not travel as far each year as boxcars per the following table for the
years 1948-1949:

Boxcar Gondolas
Annual Carloadings per Car 22 18
Avg. Miles Hauled 614 367
Avg. Loaded Car Miles/Car 13,500 6,000
Percent Loaded Car Miles 76.0% 55.0%
Total Car Miles per Car 17,763 10,909

While the 306,333 gondolas in 1948 may have been 42.0% of the 729,637
boxcars owned, the total mileage of all 306,333 gondolas owned by Class
I Roads was only 25.8% of that mileage by the 729,637 boxcars.

My question is were home road gons kept on a
special track or in a special yard? Anyone think of some photos of
these special yards besides the one in the P&LE gon book? I
recalling seeing a picture of a yard full of gons in a newspaper as
the background for an ad and thinking the yard was B&O or C&O.
Anyone else familiar with this picture? Can anyone estimate the
number of gons used to haul coal in the west?
Ed, you may have a bit of homework to do to provide the estimate of gons
hauling coal in the west - first step would be figure out how many gons
that were owned by the western roads in an ORER. Then you might want to
factor in how many eastern gons were loaded in the West on their return
to the east. Good luck, Tim Gilbert
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars - Kadee PS-1 Substitutes in HO

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Shawn Beckert asked:
"Since Kadee's Buffalo Creek PS-1's are apparently not to be found,
what can be used instead?"

Details on the BCK PS-1s are as follows:

BCK 1000-1499, built 1952, 500 cars, 7' 7 panel Superior door
BCK 2000-2499, built 1956, 500 cars, 7' Youngstown door

Your reasonable alternatives for the Kadee car for a 7' door
prototype are as follows:

- Intermountain PS-1, stock no 40495, in stock at Intermountain.

- Kurtz Kraft/Cannonball Car Shops PS-1. Don't laugh. The details,
while crude by today's standards, are molded separately and easily
replaced by Kadee PS-1 parts or other detail parts. The kit only
comes with the P-S door, which is easily replaced. (BTW, one oft-
repeated criticism of this kit is that Kadee #5 couplers don't fit
into the kit's coupler boxes. That's because they were designed for
the standard Kadee coupler of the time - the #4.) These cars are
fairly common on the secondary market at reasonable prices.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=484&item=5949329979&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

If anyone doubts me that this kit could be built into a credible
model, I'll be happy to prove you wrong at Naperville next October.

Champ HB-177 (still available) or CDS HO-172 will letter this car.
See the March 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal for photo.
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/PS-1's/XM-PS-1-
Buffalo-Creek-1175-SDM.jpg


Ben Hom
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Shawn Beckert asked:
"Refresh my memory, though: aren't the underframe crossmembers on the
Branchline kits spaced incorrectly for all but the car with 6-foot
doors?"

Yes. See Ed Hawkins' online article at Ted's website for how to
correct this discrepancy:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/articles/btuframemain.html


Ben Hom
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions

Shawn Beckert
 

Guys,

Thanks for steering me towards the Branchline kits. Refresh
my memory, though: aren't the underframe crossmembers on the
Branchline kits spaced incorrectly for all but the car with
6-foot doors? Sorry Bill, I had to ask...

Shawn Beckert
Re: MILW rib side double door ID help

Rick <oscaletrains@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
This car is the 50 ft auto boxcar version of the prewar MILW rib
side design, MILW 13500-13999."



This car is, or was at one time, available in O Scale from Rails
Unlimited...

http://users.foxvalley.net/~railsunl/Models/milwboxcars.html

NJ Custom Brass also imported a double door version of the MILW rib
side 50' cars in O Scale, though it doesn't look anything like this
series of cars at all.
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Shawn,

Branchline 1601, $15.98, or 16014 (four pack), $63.92. The Branchline page is:
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/40boxcars/40%27aar7/40aar7.htm , and a photo can be seen at:
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/40boxcars/40%27aar7/bra_1601.jpg .

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Guys,

Since Kadee's Buffalo Creek PS-1's are apparently not to be found, what can be used instead? Someone mentioned that were AAR-type Buffalo Creek cars as well as PS-1's.
What kind of AAR cars? Will a kit from Red Caboose or
Intermountain work just as well for an accurate model?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions

Tim O'Connor
 

Since Kadee's Buffalo Creek PS-1's are apparently not to
be found, what can be used instead? Someone mentioned
that were AAR-type Buffalo Creek cars as well as PS-1's.
What kind of AAR cars? Will a kit from Red Caboose or
Intermountain work just as well for an accurate model?

Thanks,
Shawn Beckert
10 panel, riveted, 8 foot Improved Youngstown doors, R+3/4 IDE,
Apex running board, Miner brake wheel, built by ACF in 1956 (for
example, BCK 2989). An earlier series (BCK 1662) had carbuilder
("dartnot") ends but I don't have series, builder or dates.

Tim O.
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions

Schroeders <schroeder.bears@...>
 

Branchline has one decorated for BCK...


Bernd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 20:14
Subject: [STMFC] Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions



Guys,

Since Kadee's Buffalo Creek PS-1's are apparently not to
be found, what can be used instead? Someone mentioned
that were AAR-type Buffalo Creek cars as well as PS-1's.
What kind of AAR cars? Will a kit from Red Caboose or
Intermountain work just as well for an accurate model?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert




Yahoo! Groups Links
freight car totals in the '49 CBC

ed_mines
 

The '49 CBC has freight car totals for class 1 RRs including the
years 1945-1947.

I have the following questions.

- Comparing the box car totals for 1945 &'46, it appears that the
number of auto box car decreased by about 50K and the regular box
car total increased by almost an identical amount. Anyone know the
reason for this? This was during the box car shortage which had
special interchange rules, right? I know a lot of secondary doors
were sealed during WWII.

- The number of gons was more than 40% the number of box cars. Very
rarely is the proportion this high in actual trains. I think most
customers recieved home road gons for loading and off road gons were
returned empty, at least in the east. I've seen a couple of photos
of trains with a lot of empty gons of every size and description
apparently empty. My question is were home road gons kept on a
special track or in a special yard? Anyone think of some photos of
these special yards besides the one in the P&LE gon book? I
recalling seeing a picture of a yard full of gons in a newspaper as
the background for an ad and thinking the yard was B&O or C&O.
Anyone else familiar with this picture? Can anyone estimate the
number of gons used to haul coal in the west?

Ed
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Dave Nelson wrote

We're all so used to the notion of outsourcing these days nobody seems to
recall that in the steam era the opposite was the norm -- everything was
done in-house. Take National Biscuit for instance. They had cookie
bakeries all over the country, yet all the printed packaging came from one
plant in upstate NY.
Good point, I had neglected vertical integration.

In this specific case, it's all just speculation of course as there isn't
enough info to form any firm conclusion.
Yep. Lots of tantalizing clues, but nothing conclusive.

Tim O.
Buffalo Creek Boxcars - The AAR Versions

Shawn Beckert
 

Guys,

Since Kadee's Buffalo Creek PS-1's are apparently not to
be found, what can be used instead? Someone mentioned
that were AAR-type Buffalo Creek cars as well as PS-1's.
What kind of AAR cars? Will a kit from Red Caboose or
Intermountain work just as well for an accurate model?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert
Re: BUILDING CRAFTSMAN KITS

John Van Buekenhout <jvanbu1347@...>
 

Approximately how long? I recognize that there are many different microwaves so what is the time, say for a 700W or a 1,000W unit? Many thanks for you have solved a major problem.
Jack
jvanbu1347@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Westerfield
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] BUILDING CRAFTSMAN KITS


Sorry for the delayed reply. You may be able to just twist the body in the opposite direction; that's what I always try first. Never put weights on it in the oven - it will collapse. Just put it upside down on a sheet of glass in the oven. The body should sag flat. Take it out and place it on a col, flat surface, holding it in position until it is no longer soft. - Al Westerfield
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] BUILDING CRAFTSMAN KITS



>I have a one-piece G22 with a warped body (longitudinal twist - about
>3/16" end to end). I know how to straighten flat parts; how does one
>straighten bodies without flattening them?
>Doug Brown







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WP freight cars page updated

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dear friends,

I have just posted an update to my pages on HO scale freight car models suitable (and some unsuitable) for the Western Pacific, Sacramento Northern, and Tidewater Southern through the 1950s. Please drop by at http://www.people.virginia.edu/~ggg9y/wp.html .

I've hit the end of the file for Mac Simpletext, and had to do some hard editing to stuff Sunshine's newest WP car onto the page. Until I can find a more generous text editor that won't confuse the HTML text with embedded characters, this page will have to remain static.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff
Re: Buffalo Creek Boxcars

Shawn Beckert
 

If you go to the Kadee web site, they have a section called "Dealers
With Out-Of-Stock Cars". Type in the item number of the car you're looking
for, and it will bring up the dealers that (supposedly) have them. Warning:
Kadee doesn't update the list in a timely manner, and you'll find several
stores listed that don't actually have the car.

Further Warning: Don't call The Amherst Depot in Florida. I've discovered
that when the owner finds out that any Kadee car is out of stock at Kadee,
she automatically ups the sticker price by 20%.

$36 and change for a plastic 40' boxcar - Aieeeee.....!

Shawn Beckert

-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-2554753-37491-1105639446-shawn.beckert=disney.com@....
yahoo.com
[mailto:sentto-2554753-37491-1105639446-shawn.beckert=disney.com@returns
.groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of D. Port Jr.
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Buffalo Creek Boxcars





Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to say thank you to all that helped me with my question.
Reading all the messages about the different parts of the country the cars
made it to has been very interesting.

Does anyone on the list know where I could find the Buffalo Creek cars made
by Kadee? The place I usually order from does not have them in stock.

Thanks for your help.

Dan











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