Nice Shot of ATSF Rr-27 in Dec Trains
mike brock <brockm@...>
After beating up on MR for their evaluations of the Trix cars, I suppose
it's only fair to commend Kalmbach fot the interesting photo in the Dec Trains of a Santa Fe Rr-27 reefer. The photo is interesting because it is an in service shot and shows the end to be relatively non weathered while the side is quite weathered. Not as deteriorated as one might see in today's cars, but dirty. Also present in the likewise interesting article about the Frisco during our time period by Pat Hiatte is an excellent shot of the yard throat trackage of the Springfield, MO, frt yard. Mike Brock
|
|
Re: Mainline Photos
Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
Ed Mines asked:
Do you have any contact info? I need photos for my next RMC article. Mainline Photos PO Box 411 Portage WI 53901 Look forward to seeing the article. Ben Hom
|
|
Corner Question
heitkamp80015
Group,
OK, time for a basic question. Can somebody explain the external visual differences between a "W" corner post and a square corner post? The car in question is a 1937 AAR 40' boxcar. I've searched the archives, and looked on the STFMC website. I've read the listings of which cars were built with either corner and such, but still haven't found a clear explaination of the features. I can figure out that the square corners were just that, square. Does the "W" refer to a structural member inside the corner of the cars with the outside of the car corner having a radius? Thanks for your help and for putting up with such a basic question. Regards, Doug Heitkamp
|
|
Re: UP ore cars
thompson@...
Ben Hom said:
(This is one of Henderson's more hilarious caption errors - the captionAh, I foresee a long and entertaining thread, discovering the relative hilarity of the VERY many blunders in the Henderson books. But should we really go there? Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history
|
|
Ulster & Delaware Milk Cars on the West Shore?
Steven Delibert <STEVDEL@...>
Throughout the classic milk era, possibly starting even as early as the
West Shore's completion to Kingston in 1883, until NYC's takeover of Ulster & Delaware in 1932, U&D milk cars ran through on the West Shore to Weehawken, but I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one. Does anyone here have such, or know of a source? Thanks Steve Delibert
|
|
Re: UP ore cars
Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
Tim O'Connor asked:
Did UP ever have a car class ORE-70-2 that looked anything like this? I'm just curious. I know they had some ORE-100-x cars painted this way. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3155755922 Sort of - there's a photo of UP 26000, Class ORE-70-2 on page 50 of Classic Freight Cars, Vol. 4. It's a rectangular side ore car in a 1960s oxide scheme with a partial renumbering. The prototype has detail differences from the MDC model in the areas under the slope sheets. (This is one of Henderson's more hilarious caption errors - the caption states that the car is "road-classed CH-0-71," which is actually the reweigh date CH 10-71. The "ORE-70-2" stencil is clearly visible on the side of the car.) Ben Hom
|
|
Re: Reefer ID
Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
Tom
To date I know of three different Decker paint schemes: 1) a dry transfer offered by Clover House as a dry transfer in HO & 0 and recently offered by MDC in HO. This image has a large black state of Iowa image with lettering reading Iowana Hams & Bacon. Iowana Ham was a Decker trademark. 2) a decal offered by Art Griffin in HO and new Atlas meat reefer in N and soon HO, with word Deckers on the roof in white and large block letters in Black on the side. There is a photo with this image in the background on my website 3) the photo of the string of new reefers I have posted on my website, date new 2-35. To my knowledge this image has never been offered. The early Decker schemes are billboard style and I believe the one with the state has been offered in silk-screen in the past. Richard Hendrickson has confirmed that all Decker reefers (leased) were gone by Oct 1941. Armour bought Deckers in Oct 1935 and do doubt got rid of them or repainted as quickly as possible. Con-Agra still uses the Decker name in Texas and the southwest. They just closed their last Deckers plant in Texas in the late 90's. Operations: the M&StL worked the Decker plant in Mason City (they also had plants in Texas among other places), switching it three times a day. Find a complete account of this operation written by Clark Propst at http://www.eldora.net/lyndon/towns/masoncity_operations.html According to Vaughn Ward, retired M&StL engineer, the DMX, the meat train, had to leave Mason City by 6:30pm to meet the ILL Central at Ackley where most of the meat was interchanged. Some did go to the CGW at Marshalltown. And of course meat went in other directions. We do know of Decker meat traveling west on the MILW. And recently I found a company history reference that mention much Decker meat (pork products) went to Puerto Rico. Doug Harding Iowa Central Railroad www.iowatelecom.net/~dharding/
|
|
Re: PFE R-40-23 Questions
Walter M. Clark
--- In STMFC@..., "Dick Harley" <Dick.Harley@w...> wrote:
there and answer this question!states away by New England standards). You could pick on Jeff Aley, but thatmust be at home somewhere.I will be headed for Ohio soon. This answer and others will have to wait a few Dick- I'm so sorry. My prayers are with you and your family. Walter M. Clark Riverside, California
|
|
Pullman Standard 100th Year Box Cars...
John F. Campbell <jcampbel@...>
Hi Folks...
The Lake Superior & Ishpeming RR (LS&I) purchased a group of 40' Box Cars in their 2400 series from Pullman Standard in 1952... And PS applied a 100th Year stencil to them on the lower "A" end side... I'm interested to know if other House Cars are known to be built and stencilled that way by PS for other railroads... I've posted an image of LS&I #2436 to the Files Section taken on Labor Day 1969 at Munising, MI... Built 8/1952 with "black" (term?) applied to the ends... And a second image showing a Close-up of the PS 100 Year stencil from LS&I #2410... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/2436lsi_ps100.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/2410lsi_ps100.jpg As the Files Section is about "chuck full" I'll remove these images in a couple of days... Apology as the Photos Section is not an option for me... Cordially... John
|
|
Re: Colorado Midland Hanrahan reefer lettering
thompson@...
David Soderblom said:
...In 25 wordsYou mean, of course, the Colorado Rockies. The Rockies, however, extend some distance north and south of Colorado (though I have met Coloradans who are aghast to hear this). Both UP (a bit north of Colorado) and Santa Fe (a bit south) had crossed the Rockies well prior to 1899. I bet James J. Hill would be pretty surprised to hear he hadn't built the GN through the Rockies...following the NP, which was already there...and then there's Canada, where those rascally Canadians persist in calling THEIR mountains the Rockies, too. Will wonders never cease...<g> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history
|
|
Colorado Midland Hanrahan reefer lettering
David Soderblom
The book "Colorado Midland" (Cafky, Morris; 1965, Rocky Mountain Railroad Club) includes a full-page reproduction (p. 393) of a black and white photo of car 1206 in a 3/4 view. The photo is credited as "H. H. Buckwalter photo, from R. A. Ronzio Collection.". The shading referred to is in the main reporting marks "COLORADO / MIDLAND / REFRIGERATOR LINE". The shading is offset to the right and down from the primary lettering. The side's reefer yellow (according to the caption) shows between the lettering and its shading as a thin line. The end lettering appears to be white as it is a shade lighter than the sides.
Since these cars were built in 1897 and were few in number, only a very few of this group's readers would likely model them, but they have to have the single most extraordinary paint job ever done on a freight car, bar none. I am unable to find a photo reproduced on the web, alas. The above mentioned book is rare and expensive but a genuinely "good read" as a history of a truly unusual railroad. I especially recommend Chapter VII "Tunnel Trouble and the Wild Winter of 1899." In 25 words or less, the CM was the first standard-gauge railroad across the Rockies, yet was mostly marginal its whole life because of operational costs (i.e., grades). It was ultimately done in by "success" when the USRA decided that the CM was the shortest route for traffic and dumped more traffic on them than they could handle in WWI. Once the USRA realized there was a log jam they reacted in the opposite sense and the RR was pretty much doomed. Like other "lost cause" railroads, the CM has its many fans, helped considerably by its considerable charm. The Hanrahan reefers are one example, the cabooses with their unique cupola roofs were another. Then there was Hagerman trestle, a huge curved structure at high altitude, and... David Soderblom Baltimore MD On Tuesday, Nov 11, 2003, at 14:29 US/Eastern, STMFC@... wrote: Message: 4 David Soderblom Operations and Data Management Division Space Telescope Science Institute
|
|
UP ore cars
Did UP ever have a car class ORE-70-2 that looked anything
like this? I'm just curious. I know they had some ORE-100-x cars painted this way. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3155755922
|
|
Re: Mainline Photos
ed_mines
--- In STMFC@..., Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:
He {Mike Gruber} does not have a list that I am aware of, but he does take requests and will search his files for you. Do you have any contact info? I need photos for my next RMC article. Ed Mines
|
|
Re: Reefer ID
Thomas Baker
Doug,
Soem years ago, a mom-and-pop operation in New Hampsire offered silk-screened refrigerator car sides in HO, S, and O. Their selection was not large--five choices I think--but among them was a silk-screened offering for Decker in Mason Citiy. From what you and others know, is the art work on a Decker refrigerator car undocumented? I have a friend who was an M&StL engineer having begun his career about 1947, and he spoke about picking up meat at Decker's and taking it to Marshalltown on the local, some of it being transferred to the CGW at that point. Tom
|
|
Re: Mainline Photos
Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On Nov 13, 2003, at 9:56 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:
Guys,Shawn: He does not have a list that I am aware of, but he does take requests and will search his files for you. Regards, Ted Culotta
|
|
Mainline Photos
Shawn Beckert
Guys,
Does Mike Gruber of Mainline Photos have a catalog or list of his photos, or does one just walk up to his files and dive in? I don't recall seeing a list or catalog when he came out to the NMRA San Jose show, but that might not mean he doesn't have one. Thanks, Shawn Beckert
|
|
Re: Reefer ID
Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
Richard Hendrickson and I have exchanged some emails regarding
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
the photo of the Decker loading area I recently posted on my website. In the message below you can read he has confirmed it is a Mather meat reefer and that it does have bogus lettering painted on the photo, and he has ID the reefer as leased to the Hygrade Food Products Co. My apologies to Richard Brennan and Joe Binish for dismissing their suggestions that the letter was bogus. I was just too excited about finding a photo of a Decker reefer. And that idea that it was a Mather car to boot was too much. I stand corrected. And thanks to all who have helped ID the Decker reefers. Doug Harding Iowa Central Railroad www.iowatelecom.net/~dharding/
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Richard Hendrickson [mailto:rhendrickson@...] |Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:03 PM |To: Douglas Harding |Subject: RE: Fwd: Decker more visible | | |>Richard thanks for your response. I appreciate any help on ID'ing |>Decker reefers. Your information is very helpful and adds to my cache |>of knowledge. |>>From the hi-res scan I have of the photo of the string of reefers |>>#2588, |>2587, etc I can read in the lower left corner of the first |reefer "RPKD |>E.C. 2-14-35 G.A.C.C." It shows a built date of 2-35 (just |past the man |>in the photo). Bob Katella says "could be RPKD for repacked; E.C. for |>location of East Chicago (Indiana) where General American had |a repair |>and service facility; the date for date; and GACC for General |American |>Car Co." As the numbers are in sequential order I am assuming |this is a |>publicity shot of a new reefers being delivered. The photo certainly |>has all appearances of late winter, ie late Feb/March which |corresponds |>with the build date. | |Doug, that information confirms that GATC built them at East |Chicago, which was their house car construction plant, in |mid-February of 1935 | |>I have also learned that URTC had an agent in Mason City from before |>WWII until 1967. And that General American owned a building with two |>tracks and a gantry crane at the south end of Mason City, which they |>sold to the M&StL in 1957. I don't know when they acquired the |>property, perhaps when they purchased URTC. Or perhaps it was built |>when Armour bought Deckers in Oct 1935. We do know that Armour leased |>reefers from GACC. Deckers had their own clean/repair tracks and a |>nearby carpenter shop. But a major expansion and the |subsequent sale to |>Armour may have exceeded their capacity on site and prompted |the Lease |>holder to provide an offsite facility in Mason City. | |Ah ha! The fact that Armour acquired Decker in late 1935 |accounts for the disappearance of the Decker reporting marks |(see below), as Armour owned and operated a sizeable fleet of |RSM reefers and doubtless preferred to use their own cars |rather than leasing from GATC. My guess is that they turned |the cars back to GATC as soon as the lease was up and retired |the reporting marks. | |>I have a Jan 41 ORER which lists DMRX cars 2800-2949 under General |>American as RAM cars. IL 28' 9", IW 8' 2" IH 7' 1" OL 37' Crushed ice |>capacity 5600. The NMRA 43 ORER no longer lists them. Like you, I can |>not determine when the Decker reefers disappeared. Further I |don't know |>if Decker's owned or leased the cars that carried the DMRX and JEDX |>reporting marks. | |With a little further research, I found those Decker cars |listed under the General American entries in 10/38 and 1/40, |and they obviously lasted until 1/41, but they were gone by |10/41. So they would certainly have been GATC-owned and |leased to Decker between 2/35 and early '41. | |>I have attached a hi-res image scanned from a Decker promotion piece. |>It shows what appears to be a Mather reefer in the foreground with |>questionable lettering, some feel the lettering was applied to the |>photo. In the background, behind the Decker tankcar is another Decker |>reefer with what I believe is authentic Decker lettering. It appears |>the tank car is has JEDX reporting marks. One question this |photo does |>raise: did Decker's lease Mather reefers? | |This is a very interesting photo, one of the few that clearly |shows a Mather reefer roof. The photo was definitely |retouched to add the "Deckers" lettering, because if you look |very carefully at the end of the Mather car you can just make |out the reporting marks and numbers HFPX 1415, establishing |this car as a Mather 37' reefer leased to the Hygrade Food |Products Co. in the HFPX 1400-1499 series. So it wasn't a |Decker car at all, and as far as I know Decker never leased |reefers from Mather. | | | |Richard H. Hendrickson |Ashland, Oregon 97520
|
|
ARA 203 & 203-W
Guy Wilber
In a message dated 11/7/03 1:11:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
blindog@... writes: << Hmmm, an insulated AAR-203W? Built in 1940? Probably forge welded, not fusion welded, so it should be an AAR-203F.>> The ARA adopted the specifications for the ARA-203 during the latter part of 1930 to take the place of the original ARA Class III. These specs were the same as the ICC 103 (aside from the safety valve and bottom outlet requirements). The design was adopted for cars transporting commodities which developed little (or no) vapor pressure. Cars built to the 203 specs could be lagged, or not. The ARA-203-W "Specs" were first approved for "experimental" use in 1933. The AAR approved 65 cars to be built in the year 1940. The ARA became the AAR in October of 1934, but the bulk of the tank car specs (including the 203-W) were not changed to AAR prefixes until 1937. There is no mention of any forge welded 203 being built within ARA Tank Car Committee annual reports, all the welded design 203s (submitted for approval) were to be fusion welded. I have yet to find any ARA/AAR classification with an "F" suffix, though the cars that were forge welded were noted as such. << Not sure they had a 203 classification in 1940, so this sounds like a tank converted from some other service. >> There is a very good chance that the car was; constructed in 1940, was fusion welded, was lagged, and had multiple compartments. Regards, Guy Wilber Sparks, Nevada
|
|
Re: Reefer ID
Guy Wilber
Bob wrote:
"We have a few cars in the IRM collection that were essentially rebuilt so thoroughly that they came out as new cars. Examples include the Borden's butterdish milk car and the B&O wagon top boxcar. Both were new from the floor up, with running gear and frame from a previous life. Essentially they were 'new' cars and I believe were so stenciled with the later date as NEW." Cars re-built to such an extent (prior to 1937) MIGHT have been stenciled "NEW", but "REBUILT" would have been predominant. All "REBUILT" cars classed as such (on paper and for interchange) after 1937 were required to meet all the conditions of Interchange Rule 3 for newly built equipment. The list is within Rule 112 of the AAR's Interchange Rules. Those cars not meeting all the listed requirements were classed as repaired or reconditioned. "In that case the pre-existing trucks might logically be a re-pack." There were numerous cars built new that had second hand (reconditioned) trucks applied. Thus, stenciling would have contained date of repacks. ARA shortened the REPKD to RPKD in 1926 for brake service, but the stenciling for journals ranged from "Repacked" spelled out -- to any form of abbreviation. "Note that there is a fine line distinction between stenciling declaring BUILT versus NEW." New was "NEW". Any maintenance work performed subsequent to that date required stenciling as such; the date and the station abbreviation at which the work was performed. "We have an old tank car with a BUILT date of 1918 and also stenciled NEW for 1924. How can that be?? Evidence suggests that a newer tank was applied to the older frame, and both items continued to be recorded with the first data they were assigned." Applying new tanks to older frames was a common occurrence from the 1920s forward. New frames to old tanks, though less frequent, occurred as well. In either case, both tanks and underframes were to be stenciled and/or receive bage plates listing "built" dates. The car you mention falls into the ARA's parameters for tank cars "rebuilt" prior to the ARA's 1927 rules changes. After 1927 any underframe to which a new tank was applied had to meet (at least) the current specs for Class III underframes and the car also was required to be fitted with cast truck side frames meeting the current ARA specifications. "I suppose there were rules governing use of terms and required data but there is an exception to every rule and if a particular car or order did not fit the classical pattern, it may have been left to an ordinary guy in the paint shop to come up with the scheme." Doubtful...Interchange rules were not "optional" in these cases, especially when work was performed by a non-owner. It had to be correct in order to log any fees associated with the labor and/or parts. Regards, Guy Wilber Sparks, Nevada
|
|
Bob's Photo Duplicates - Rebuilt Boxcars
Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
I have the following Bob's Photo duplicates for sale or trade. All are 8x10
prints of 40 ft rebuilt boxcars. ATSF 158594, Class Bx-36, Fayetteville NC, 12/30/1951, "El Capitan," right side of car ATSF 158594, Class Bx-36, Fayetteville NC, 12/30/1951, "Ship and Travel...," left side of car CMO 1672, c. 10/1954, color photo, green/yellow "Route of The '400'" GTW 470429, Durand MI, 7/21/1957, Automobile service LOVX 978 (ex-DT&I), Conneaut OH 8/30/1969, plug door , American Colloid Company SL-SF 130474, Scop, Baja California, Mexico, 12/17/1955, Large "Frisco" herald/"Ship it on the Frisco!" Please contact me off-list if interested. Ben Hom
|
|