Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
byronrose@...
Allow me to disagree with Lt Ben. I don't think there is any need for a
modeler to own either equipment registers or diagram books until they are familiar with and have built all the available kits for their interests and are looking for something else to do. There is just too much information in those very specialized books for a newcomer to make any kind of use of and it will only complicate an already difficult learning period. Basically the same reason not to bother with the Train Sheds at this point of your education. Learn all you can about freight cars from photos and articles relating to them and modeling. Once you are conversant and comfortable dealing with them, then you can get into the esoteric stuff. Believe me, you'll go nuts trying to determine where the width of a flat car is measured from until you are familiar with the anatomy of a flat car. And why the heck can't you fight the Battle of Midway with your 1/72 models? I do it every night in the tub with my 1/48 models. Coral Sea too, but I have to remove the meatballs from thr models. Trust me, I'm an RPA. BSR On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:39:11 -0000 bhom3@home.com writes: Warren,________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Re: Tank car parts
Jon Miller <atsf@...>
Byron,
What ever happen to that tank car frame? Jon Miller AT&SF For me time has stopped in 1941 Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: 38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
John, yes, I am familiar with that photo. But it's not what I would call a high
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quality photo. Most of the small lettering is illegible, which by today's standards is a no-go. What we need are clear, legible side and end photos. I think I've seen an equally poor photo of the SSW car too.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Nehrich <nehrij@rpi.edu> To: <STMFC@egroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] 38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars Tim - There is a builder's photo of the T&NO car on our Atlas rolling stock guide
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RE Train shed Cyclopedias
Dana and Larry Kline <klinelarrydanajon@...>
Many of the Train Shed Cyclopedias are still available directly from:
Charles S. Gregg 808 Boulder Springs Drive, #C5 Richmond, VA 23225 chasmagg@aol.com I most recently recieved a catalog in June, 2000. Although each issue is a relatively small excerpt for one (or sometimes several) Car Builders Cyclopedias, there are multiple parts available form several different Cyclopedias. The most complete group is from the 1943 Cyclopedia: TS 17, Box, stock and flat cars, 80 pages TS 21, Passenger cars, 80 pages TS 70, Gondolas and hoppers, 64 pages TS 71, Hoppers, tanks, container cars and cabooses, 64 pages TS 75, Cabooses and freight car construction details, 64 pages TS 77, Freight car construction details, underframes and brakes, 64 pages TS 81, Freight car construction details, safety appliances and trucks, 64 pages TS 83, Construction details, industrial and export cars, 64 pages TS 86, Motor cars, and passenger car construction details, 64 pages TS 88, Passenger car construction details and interior fittings, 64 pages This adds up to 672 pages, or about half of the complete 1943 cyclopedia. The corresponding total price is $46.80. The content includes engineering drawings and photos of prototype freight and passenger cars. Many additional issues are available from other years. I have always liked the TS series since it allowed me to buy just the parts of a complete Car Builders Cyclopedias that interest me. Larry Kline
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Re: Tichy ads
Jon Miller <atsf@...>
Just received my RMC and noticed that Tichy had no less the 3 ads in the
Feb. issue. One for the war emergency gon, one for some express trucks, and one for some nut/bolt/washer and rivet castings. Richard , if I remember correctly, said the gon was quite nice. I am interested for comments on the express trucks, any? Having been quiet for awhile is Tichy now back into the fray? Jon Miller AT&SF For me time has stopped in 1941 Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: Tichy ads
Ted Culotta <ted@...>
From what I understand, Don Tichy's main business, which was producing
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injection molded supplies for the medical industry, is no longer occupying his time, leaving him free to pursue freight car kits. I think we can expect more offerings from him in the future, so send him your requests. Ted Culotta
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Miller [mailto:atsf@inow.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:12 PM To: STMFC@egroups.com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tichy ads Just received my RMC and noticed that Tichy had no less the 3 ads in the Feb. issue. One for the war emergency gon, one for some express trucks, and one for some nut/bolt/washer and rivet castings. Richard , if I remember correctly, said the gon was quite nice. I am interested for comments on the express trucks, any? Having been quiet for awhile is Tichy now back into the fray? Jon Miller AT&SF For me time has stopped in 1941 Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
Ted Culotta <ted@...>
Ben:
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I also recommend looking into your local NMRA chapter. Interest in freight cars usually begets more interest and many of the experts are not distributed in an entirely even, random pattern, but rather clustered in specific areas. Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: bhom3@home.com [mailto:bhom3@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:39 PM To: STMFC@egroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Train Shed Cyclopedias Warren, Thanks for asking this question - after sitting in on clincs at the San Jose national and seeing the large attendance by modelers fairly new to prototype modeling and listening to some of their questions, I've been working on an article (intended as the first in an ongoing series on a systematic approach on building a steam era boxcar fleet for the modeler just getting into prototype modeling). My premise: "If I was starting from scratch in prototype railroad modeling and wanted a research library, which items do I absolutely need that I can readily find at a reasonable price?" As Byron's detailed in his excellent post, there is a lot out there. Over the last fifteen years, there has been an explosion in the quantity and quality of freight car information available - unlike fifteen years ago, where you were searching for a needle in a haystack because information you're looking for isn't readily available or surces haven't been identified yet, today it's the opposite problem - you have so much information out there that things sometimes get lost in the volume (this problem I'd much rather have). The challenge for the new prototype modeler is to "get the most bang for the buck" for his research material. Unfortunately, there isn't anything nearly as economical as the Squadron "In Action" series (I also started as a scale modeler, and still keep a shelf of them when I feel the need for a change of pace). Byron hit many of the really good pubs out there - here's a few more: NEB&W Guide to Steam Era Freight Cars: Even if I weren't a member of the RPI society, I'd still give this series my highest recommendation. These represent almost 20 years of research towards creating a realistic freight car fleet for the NEB&W, growing from a series of notes made by Todd Sullivan on which prototypes are represented by which kits. From this beginning, John Nehrich has expanded and updated these into 4 sizable volumes of information covering everything from suitability of kits, paint schemes, freight car evolution, developing a model freight car fleet, etc., etc.. Even though these contain no color photos (an unfortunate by-product of operating on a shoestring budget provided by the Institute), the sheer amount of information makes these a great bargain for the price. One nice feature of the guide is that John takes pains to reference articles in the hobby press, which makes sifting through the pile of magazine back issues much less painful. For more info (an an online guide to steam era freight car kits), go to http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/ . Official Railway Equipment Registers: Once only available as originals on a catch-as-can basis at railroadiana shows (at a premium price), many of these are now available on CD (various issues - August 1888 to Janauary 1959, PRR 1893-1926, PRR 1927-1950) from Al Westerfield (http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/), and the January 1953 issue in paper from the NMRA (http://jdb.psu.edu/nmra/orer.html). These are listings for all railroads operating of freight cars in revenue interchange service and contain a treasure trove of information from number series, dimensions, specially equipped cars, and interchange connections. These are not stand alone publications from the modeler's point of view because they do not contain diagrams or pictures, but they multiply the effectiveness of the rest of your references because they give you the big picture. I highly recommend obtaining a copy of an ORER for the years you're interested in modeling. Equipment Diagram Books: Many historical societies offer reproduction equipment diagram books, and Wayner has PRR diagram book as well. Again, these aren't stand alone because the diagrams are not scale drawings but general arrangments, but they are an excellent representation of a particular road's fleet. Westerfield Data Sheets: Al offers his outstanding decals separately, and he includes his data sheets with them, which are easily worth the price of his kits, much less the decals! Judging from your last post, you're on the right track with the L&N Historical Society. As for other roads, I'd pick up the first volume of the NEB&W Guide, a copy of the ORER for the year(s) I'm interested in from Westerfield, and start with learning more about the roads that connect with the sections of the L&N, NC&StL, and TC that you're interested in, as well as the roads with major car fleets (PRR, NYC, B&O, ATSF, SP). Welcome aboard! (I also came to the same conclusion about my aircraft and ship models - I very well couldn't refight the Battle of Midway with my 1/72 aircraft collection either). Ben Hom P.S. - Comments welcome from the list at large - ask yourself the same question! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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Re: 38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars
ibs4421@...
John,
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I will forward this to Steve Johnson, and see if he has any good copies of NC&StL cars for this. IIRC, Steve has worked with Atlas before, as well as LL on some of their car projects. Warren
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Nehrich" <nehrij@rpi.edu> To: <STMFC@egroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 8:34 AM Subject: [STMFC] 38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars Paul Graf of Atlas is looking for photos from which to create the artwork
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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
Richard Hendrickson
Ben Hom's post on sources for freight car research was very well done and,
along with Byron's, should be archived as a national resource. However, I must respectfully disagree with Byron about the value of Train Shed Cyclopedias and ORERs for relative newcomers to the subject. Warren sounds to me like he's hitting the ground running and will be able to make good use of these documents by next week, if he isn't there already. When I was just beginning to get interested in freight cars, at a time when very little information was readily available, I got an ORER for the date I model, quickly learned how to interpret the data, and used it so much that I literally wore it out and have since had to replace it. And I enthusiastically welcomed the advent of the Train Shed Cyclopedias, which I found to be goldmines of information. The issue is perhaps more one of intent than experience. Dabblers are easily overwhelmed, and for them Byron's advice is doubtless appropriate. But Warren doesn't strike me as a dabbler, especially in view of his extensive experience in other realms of scale modeling and prototype research, so I'd advise him to go for it. Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520
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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Richard Hendrickson wrote
However, I must respectfully disagree with Byron about the valueI concur with Richard, and would say that the TSC's are also a good way to find out if you'd actually be interested in a Cyclopedia w/o having to take out a second mortgage. And I love my ORER's and use them very frequently. My Westerfield CD-ROM 1959 ORER is especially handy. Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net> Marlborough, Massachusetts
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USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones"
bhom3@...
Hello again,
Looking for information on the following USRA Double-Sheathed boxcars and "clones" thereof to support an installment of my "boxcar series for the new prototype modeler": PM 80000-81999: Lost track of this number series after the merger with C&O. What did C&O do with these cars? NP 10000-13999: An Al Chione photo of NP 11257 ran with Rich Hendrickson's article in the May 1988 issue of Model Railroading. It is captioned as a USRA DS boxcar, but NP never received an allocation of the DS boxcars. The car in the photo appears to have 7-8 Murphy Ends (difficult to tell from the angle of the shot) and NP's trademark radial roof. Any more info on these cars? UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s in original form? Thanks for the assist! Ben Hom
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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
You might also check the larger libraries. The RPI library has the reprints
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of the entire 1879 (or so, I'm not sure of the date), 1880's, and 1906. They also have in their archives an original 1916. In buying for an original Cyc, you are paying for the collector's value of an antique and also a whole lot of pages of not so useful stuff to most modelers. And the Gregg reprints certainly are easier to lug around, spill coffee on, etc. This must have been mentioned, but a subscription to Railmodel Journal would be one of the top "must-haves". - John Nehrich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net> To: <STMFC@egroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Train Shed Cyclopedias Richard Hendrickson wroteHowever, I must respectfully disagree with Byron about the valueI concur with Richard, and would say that the TSC's are also a good
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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
Guy Wilber
In a message dated 1/11/01 11:11:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ibs4421@commandnet.net writes: << He would make us read "1937 ARA Boxcars In Service" if there was such a thing. >> Warren, We are going to get to you yet...the 1937 box cars were an AAR "Standard", not ARA. 8^) Regards, Guy Wilber Sparks, Nevada
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Spencer Kellogg Old Time Tank Car
John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
Spen Kellogg sent me a copy of his family's company's annual report of 1960,
which included a photo of an old tank somewhat akin to the MDC kit. I've posted the picture at: http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/Glossary/Glossary-K.html#Kellogg&So ns By the way, I didn't know that they made Beacon Feeds, which is a brand I've seen a lot of signs for. - John Nehrich
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Re: Tank car parts
byronrose@...
On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:08:17 -0800 "Jon Miller" <atsf@inow.com> writes:
Byron, Jon, you really know how to hurt a guy. To answer your question though, it's in a box right next to the started patterns for the Pennsy X-23. BSR ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Cycs., Books, Research, etc.
ibs4421@...
Noble Freight Car Grandmasters,
Well, my post regarding the cycs. didn't open up a can of worms, but it sure did promote some discourse on research, books, etc. I thank all of you for the kind and extremely informative responses, as well as your encouragement. I suppose the reason that I, as a newcomer to model railroading, decided to go the prototype modeling route has to do with my background with history. I have a Bs in History, and have spent a great portion of my so-called adult life recreating various periods of US history in P-scale (12"=1') for the NPS, various state historic sites, and museums both as an avocation and a vocation. In Civil War circles, I was known as one of the "hard-core campaigner types" as opposed to "main-streamers". This, to me, is about the same as "prototype modelers" vs. the "shake the box" crowd. We spent a great deal of our time pulling our hair out because those that manufactured our reproductions would get it wrong, even though they said they copied an original. Many of us adopted the phrase "It takes as much effort to get it right in the first place as to get it wrong, so why not do it right the first time". Much of my joy and happiness in pursuing that recreation of history was getting "it" as right as possible within my abilities, and I just wanted to transfer the same philosophy over to my railroad modeling. Hence, that is why I joined this group. That is why, as soon as I had the money, I purchased John Nehrich's "Steam-Era guide to HO Freight Cars" back in '97. I have been choosy about my purchases, but there have been some mistakes. John's book has kept me from making some really bad purchases for the most part. Historical Societies: Yes, some are better than others, and the L&NRRHS ain't perfect. If it wasn't for Steve Johnson, that single photo and profile probably wouldn't even make it in there. If any of ya'll have a question regarding L&N, NC&StL, or TC freight equipment, he IS the MAN! What the society has done though, is provide a means for me to get in touch with those who DO know the info which I am seeking out, or those that have done what I aim to do. For that it has been excellent. All of you have provided me with some really fantastic info and guidance for finding the freight car info I need. Please know that I WILL use it! Now, if I can only get my own little space in the house to start on some of those resin kits that I want to get going this year. :) Warren Ride The Battlefield Route! Ride The Dixie Line! NC&StL Rwy
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Re: USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones"
Ed Workman <eworkman@...>
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-----Original Message-----
From: bhom3@home.com <bhom3@home.com> To: STMFC@egroups.com <STMFC@egroups.com> Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: [STMFC] USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones" UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s inThis class is a derivative of the B50-5, an enlargement of the B50-1 of ca. 1905. Classes built for UP include B50-5 with pressed sills, B50-6 w/Bettendorf sill, B50-11 built up UF and steel ends. Basic house dimensions and framing were common to 5 thru 13, with small differences due to roof and end types. SP also had B50-5 and -6, and B50-9, same box on a built up deep center sill.
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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
byronrose@...
On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:27:49 -0500 "Tim O'Connor"
<timoconnor@mediaone.net> writes: Richard Hendrickson wroteRichard and Tim,However, I must respectfully disagree with Byron about the valueI concur with Richard, and would say that the TSC's are also a good I never said that the Cycs, Train Shed or otherwise, and the ORERs were not helpful. I only said that I felt that getting into them at too early a learning stage could dislocate his interest and complicate his learning curve. If he is in fact not early in the curve, then there should be no problem. But I do know that the Cyc drawings can be very intimidating to someone who is not familiar or knowledgeable with freight car construction. Check my comment about good people making bad drawings. It has happened and will continue to happen. What hope has a neophyte to interpret these drawings (and pages of data) without that necessary grounding in freight car construction, purpose and operation. If Warren has all that and is comfortable with it, then I say go for the yellow (old pages, of course!). So we all agree after all! BSR ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Re: Tank car parts
Richard Hendrickson
On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:08:17 -0800 "Jon Miller" <atsf@inow.com> writes:Well, Byron, we assume you know what the road to hell is paved with.Byron, Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520
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Re: Train Shed Cyclopedias
Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
On Jan 10, 8:39pm, bhom3@home.com wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Train Shed Cyclopedias "If I was starting from scratch in prototype railroadA question, and then a few comments. Question: What is the Squadron series like? I've never modeled anything but railroads, so I'm not familiar with the data contained therein. Comments: It seems to me that there are two questions that the beginning prototype modeler might ask himself (or herself). 1) What should I model? 2) How do I model it? The first question can be answered simply by choosing a prototype that is "cool", or it may require extensive research to determine what is appropriate for a given time in a given location. It is in this area where ORER's, videos, and photos taken in the chosen location are helpful. The answer to the second question is "it depends". It behooves one to know what kits and scratchbuilding supplies are available and applicable. For this, one should have a Walther's Catalog, with http://www.walthers.com as a poor substitute. One should also have the NEB&W Guide that Ben mentioned or at least have a bookmark to their web site http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Kit-Guide.html Magazines are an excellent resource, as Byron suggests. While in the process of acquiring magazines, it is helpful to know which issues have articles you need. To this end, one should make frequent use of the magazine index at http://index.mrmag.com/ . The final "general" resource that I would use is a subscription to the Freight Cars List, where answers to many questions (and sources for photos) may be found. One may also wish to join the intermodal list, if one's interests lie in more modern eras. After these "general" resources, one has to find specific resources, i.e. those related to the car(s) being modeled. As far as I know, there are no compact, easily available resources that cover the myriad freight cars that one might wish to model. There are many books on specific railroads (Terry Metcalfe's UP book being my personal favorite), and there are many private collections of information (the Hendrickson Library, for example) as well as public collections (what's the name of the Canadian library?) but these do not fit easily onto one's bookshelf. I suppose that this is why Byron advocates magazines: a magazine collection is the closest thing you'll find to an archive of specific information on "all kinds" of freight cars. Next best is the archives of the Freight Cars List, but unfortunately there are no photos, drawings, or diagrams. In closing, I will point out the obvious theme of this little commentary: I rely heavily on resources that are available for FREE on the internet. I also rely heavily upon the kindness of strangers.[*] Regards, -Jeff [*] Was that line from "A Freightcar named Desire" or from "Cat on a Hot Diagonal-Panel Roof"? -- Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com Graphics Components Division Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA (916) 356-3533
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