Ben Hom asked:

UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s in
original form?

And Ed Workman replied:

This class is a derivative of the B50-5, an enlargement of the B50-1 of ca.
1905. Classes built for UP include B50-5 with pressed sills, B50-6
w/Bettendorf sill, B50-11 built up UF and steel ends. Basic house
dimensions and framing were common to 5 thru 13, with small differences due
to roof and end types. SP also had B50-5 and -6, and B50-9, same box on a
built up deep center sill.

A succinct and accurate response, but it doesn't answer Ben's question.
Most of the 2,000 B-50-13s built by AC&F and Mt. Vernon in 1922 were
rebuilt as steel sheathed B-50-17s in 1935-'36 (as were many A-50-7
automobile box cars built in the same year on the same underframes). By
1948, only 4 cars remained in the original 125900-127899 number series (by
then abbreviated to 125902-127831, so we can assume that those two numbers
were among the last survivors). Those were gone by 1950, as were almost
all of the surviving B-50-6, B-50-11, and B-50-12 class cars; UP rapidly
retired the last of its wood sheathed box and auto cars soon after the end
of WW II.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard,
Another tank question, P2K 10K UTLX. It's date is '47 which I will back
date to '37.

Anyway, the prototype cars were delivered with ARA cast steel trucks with

spring planks and would certainly have retained those trucks through 1941
(in fact, probably until the cars were retired). The closest HO scale truck
is the Accurail "Bettendorf" truck.<
Is this a generic statement for all the P2K 10K cars. Good thing I
bought a mess of those Accurail trucks on ebay<G>.

it's likely that in 1941 most of the DX cars still had KC brakes<

Would this statement apply to all or do we need to go on a owner by
owner basis.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

On Jan 11, 5:42am, bhom3@home.com wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones"
Hello again,

UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s in
original form?

Not beyond October 1951, at least. In the back of Metcalfe's UP Freight
Cars, there is a table of car numbers, class, and qty in October 1951,
which I assume is derived from an ORER. There are no B-50-13's listed.

If one wishes to be meticulous, I can dig up the number series, and then
we can poll the various ORER owners to see when they disappeared.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

--- In STMFC@egroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:08:17 -0800 "Jon Miller" <atsf@i...> writes:

Byron,
What ever happen to that tank car frame?

Jon, you really know how to hurt a guy.

To answer your question though, it's in a box right next to the

started

patterns for the Pennsy X-23.

Well, Byron, we assume you know what the road to hell is paved with.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

What the heck is going on around here? First we get Byron's messages
re: Train Shed Cyclopedias that are not merely polite, but actually
nice; now we have Richard being an RPA! Have their email accounts
somehow become crossed???

:-)

-Jeff

And Ed Workman replied:

A succinct and accurate response, but it doesn't answer Ben's question.

Yes well, I was trying to gently point out they weren't USRA based.
Might want to check Mainline Modeler too, IIRC there have been a couple of
articles on the -11 or -13. Was it an -11 that Thornton Waite found the body
of?

Jeff Aley asked:

Question: What is the Squadron series like? I've never
modeled anything but railroads, so I'm not familiar with
the data contained therein.

Jeff, check out their website at http://www.squadron.com.
In my late teens and early twenties I was heavily into
military aviation, especially naval aircraft, and I thrived
on the Squadron-Signal "In Action" series of publications.
These books would take a particular aircraft, say, the F-4U,
and give a brief but concise history of the plane, then show
photographs of every single variation of the plane. There
were "builders photos" and "action" views, giving the modeler
and historian lots of info to work with.

They do the same thing for ships and armored vehicles. They go
into the kind of detail we're just recently starting to get
about freight cars and locomotives. They have books titled
"P-51 Walk Around" and "F-15 Walk Around" showing nothing but
detail photos of these birds. Imagine if we had a "PS-1 Walk
Around" or an "R-40-23 Walk Around" to browse through!

Shawn Beckert

Question: What is the Squadron series like? I've never modeled anything
but railroads, so I'm not familiar with the data contained therein.

Jeff,
First, the line is from "A Freightcar Named Desire".

The Squadron "In Action" series is arranged thusly: Horizontal format
softcover books dedicated to one particular subject, usually about 50 pages
in length, and LOADED with B&W photos with good, concise captions beneath
each one detailing time, location, etc. inaddition to anything of particular
interest to the modeler. In addition there are ususally several scale
drawings in three views and also some detailing certain areas of the a/c,
armor, or ship in question that provide good detail for the modeler, in
addition to detail differences between certain production models. The
center spread consists of several renderings of the subject in profile, but
in color to show color variations, paint schemes, etc.
In my imagined "more perfect world" if these were available for steam
era freight cars, the following would happen, as this is what used to happen
when I built scale models of other subjects:
I would arrive at my hobby shop of choice with money in hand to
purchase a model. OK, so today I'm in a tank car mood, so I stroll on down
the aisle, and there are some undec. P2K 8,000 gal. tank cars. (Hey! I said
it was my perfect world, OK?) I pick up a couple, and then wind my way
over to the magazine & book section. Ahh!, there they are, the new
Hendrickson/Nehrich "In Service" series of horizontal format books on steam
era freight cars. I spin the carousel, and there's the one I want, "Type 21
Tank Cars In Service", and there's a cool painting on the front of a
Shippers Car Line 8K Tank Car sitting in a freight yard w/ a switcher about
to couple on to it. There are two more paintings on the back with captions
each showing a Type 21 Tank Car with different reproting marks or paint
schemes. thumbing through it I notice that it is chock full of B&W photos
of these cars doing what they do best, and covering most of the different
reporting marks and paint schemes throughout their service life. There are
little tech. drawings all through it showing the different little
apputerenances like the plumbing, brakes systems, etc. that were applied to
these cars over time. Yep, just what I need to model a prototypically
correct model in one volume. After purchasing these items, I hop in my car
and head home listening to cool bluegrass music about railroads.
Since there seems to be an undercurrent these days for more prototypical
modeling, I think that a "single source" volume of information such as these
would provide would be a viable thing. Just think of what subjects you
could decently covere in 50 pages of photos and drawings? Aside from
certain freight car designs, you could do some on the USRA steam locos, and
the first generation diesels.
If I hit a big Powerball one day, some of ya'll will find new jobs
working for me to produce these things. <G!>

Warren

Gize,
You are dealing with "Dullard Boy" hee as the Mrs. fondly calls me at times. What does RPA mean? If I am called an RPA should I belt the guy, or say thank you?

Trying To Catch On Quick,

Warren

"P-51 Walk Around" and "F-15 Walk Around" showing nothing but
detail photos of these birds. Imagine if we had a "PS-1 Walk
Around" or an "R-40-23 Walk Around" to browse through!

Yes! the "Walk Around" series is really nice. Very, very detail oriented.
LOL, my son has been into them since he could talk. Made his Mom read him
"P-40 In Action for a bedtime story one night. He's into railroads now too.
He would make us read "1937 ARA Boxcars In Service" if there was such a
thing.
Seriously though, I really think someone shoud consider doing this for
railroad modelers. At one time the a/c and armor guys just built what ever
came along without questioning the accuracy like a lot of RR modelers still
do. When Squadron started putting these things out in the early 70's, scale
plastic modeling began to change, and so did the manufacturers efforts.
Starting in the 80's you started seeing much more accurate models coming
out. Of course the big difference is scale modelers ALL want to build
something, it's the whole reason for their existence. With us, building a
prototypically correct freight car is more often thatn not a means to
another end. A lot of folks in the model RR community want stuff as ready
to run as possible. Except fo course, for us!

Warren

Richard,
Another tank question, P2K 10K UTLX. It's date is '47 which I will back
date to '37.

Here you're in the realm of speculation. UTLX bought no 10K AC&F Type 21s
new; its cars of this type were acquired second-hand, and the UTLX entries
in the ORER are so sketchy that it's impossible to say when they were
acquired with any certainty. A lot of them came in the early 1930s as
various private owners (e.g., Skelly Oil) decided to unload their tank car
fleets and lease the cars back from UTL, but some came to the UTLX fleet as
late as the 1960s, when the Sinclair fleet went to UTL. I'm sure UTL owned
some 10K AC&F Type 21s by the late 1930s but I can only guess at what their
numbers may have been.

Anyway, the prototype cars were delivered with ARA cast steel trucks with

spring planks and would certainly have retained those trucks through 1941
(in fact, probably until the cars were retired). The closest HO scale truck
is the Accurail "Bettendorf" truck.<

Is this a generic statement for all the P2K 10K cars. Good thing I
bought a mess of those Accurail trucks on ebay<G>.

No. Some 10K AC&F Type 21s got cast steel trucks of various types, but
many were delivered with arch bar trucks and, in general, tank car owners
delayed replacing them until the mid-'41 deadline was almost upon them.
And when they finally did, a variety of cast steel trucks were applied,
though many were of the type represented by the Accurail truck. So it's
difficult to generalize.

it's likely that in 1941 most of the DX cars still had KC brakes<

Would this statement apply to all or do we need to go on a owner by
owner basis.

Generally true, though the major leasing companies like UTL were more
likely to make the conversion to ABs than private owners. Still, I'd say
that very few '20s vintage tank cars had been retrofitted with AB brakes by
1941.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Gee, an easy one. Royal Pain (in the) A**!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

I've just started work on the MDC PS-2 covered hopper section of our web
site, by listing all the variations MDC is currently producing.
http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/MDC-LO.html#LO

This was prompted by Richard's comments about Halliburton's not having any
PS-2's. If any of you scan the list and see a version where the road never
had a PS-2, that would save me a lot of looking. (It is so hard to make a
determination like that, to make sure on a big road you aren't missing
something. Especially where at this point there aren't any images for these
cars on the MDC site and so I can't go chase down car numbers.
(Yes, the model is clunky, but if the paint scheme itself is also not
proper, that's a double whammy.)
Thanks - John Nehrich

Gize,
You are dealing with "Dullard Boy" hee as the Mrs. fondly calls me
at times. What does RPA mean? If I am called an RPA should I belt the
guy, or say thank you?

It's an inside joke, Warren. No reason you should know what an RPA is.
But the answer to your question is, both. Say thank you as you belt him in
the mouth.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

--- In STMFC@egroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:08:17 -0800 "Jon Miller" <atsf@i...> writes:

Byron,
What ever happen to that tank car frame?

Jon, you really know how to hurt a guy.

To answer your question though, it's in a box right next to the

started

patterns for the Pennsy X-23.

Well, Byron, we assume you know what the road to hell is paved with.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

What the heck is going on around here? First we get Byron's messages
re: Train Shed Cyclopedias that are not merely polite, but actually
nice; now we have Richard being an RPA! Have their email accounts
somehow become crossed???

Jeff, does Byron deserve it or what? Anyway, I figure one of the reasons
we started this list is so we could could indulge in some occasional (and
good humored) off-topic flaming without being banished to Outer Mongolia by
brother Hosker.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

And Ed Workman replied:

A succinct and accurate response, but it doesn't answer Ben's question.

Yes well, I was trying to gently point out they weren't USRA based.

Mission gently accomplished, Ed.

Might want to check Mainline Modeler too, IIRC there have been a couple of
articles on the -11 or -13. Was it an -11 that Thornton Waite found the body
of?

What we really need is Terry Metcalfe's second UP freight car book, which
exists (substantially complete, I think) in MS form. His daughter, who is
a publications professional, understandably wanted to complete it after his
unfortunate and untimely death, but I understand she has now concluded that
she lacks both the time and the RR knowledge to do so and there is some
prospect that, under the guidance of Terry's long-time friend and
collaborator Bill Metzger, it will eventually be published. Let's hope so!

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Oh, ok Richard. I see now. We used to do the same thing at living history
events when we'd see the mainstreamers/farbs. I got everybody saying "If we
an't pissin' 'em off, we must not be doing something right". In this case
it would be "doing something prototypically" I suppose.

Warren (aka Dullard Boy)

Warren (who doubtless has a last name, though he hasn't told us what it is
yet) wrote, about hypothetical RR equivalents of Squadron publications:

....Since there seems to be an undercurrent these days for more prototypical
modeling, I think that a "single source" volume of information such as these
would provide would be a viable thing. Just think of what subjects you
could decently covere in 50 pages of photos and drawings? Aside from
certain freight car designs, you could do some on the USRA steam locos, and
the first generation diesels.

The problem, of course, is sheer numbers. Like it or not, a whole lot more
people are interested in P-51s or even Westland Lysanders (let's see how
many people on this list recognize that one!) than in PS-1s or R-40-23s.
Sizeable circulation enables Squadron to sell their books at moderate
prices, but even breaking even would require comparable RR books to sell
for a lot more, which would further limit the size of their market. So I
don't think such publications are viable...at least, not yet.

If I hit a big Powerball one day, some of ya'll will find new jobs
working for me to produce these things. <G!>

Just say the word and I'll send you my resumé. How do you make a small
fortune in the model RR publishing business? You start with a large
fortune.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Why kill a tree? I'm hoping that you go into a hobby store, look at the
available selections of a particular type of kit, then ask the owner to go
to our web site and hopefully you can find the most up to date information
about each version (vetted by the gurus on this list with both objective
information and subjective opinions) and this helps you make the choice
that's right for you. And maybe if the owner isn't too willing to have the
internet available to the customers, someday you pull out your wireless palm
whatever and call up the information. - John

Col. Klink has now ordered Warren to "face The Wall" for ten hours.

What a cool, but strange a/c the Westland Lysander is. Ya gotta respect
the guys who were willing to fly them on insertions missions though.

Warren Dickinson
Elkton, Kentucky 42220
At the end of the former Guthrie&Elkton Branch, L&N