Date   

Re: CA Wine in NY (was "TW" reefer designation)

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dave,

The short answer about shipping whole grapes versus just the juice is
that most red wines require fermentation on the skins and seeds to
produce the correct acidity and color. Even from deep red grapes, the
free-run juice is practically clear, only moderately acidic, and very
sweet. You can't make a good claret (or whatever) without the skins and
seeds. Instead you get a very, very light "blush".

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Dave Nelson wrote:

As for freight car content, I am reminded of something in a Farrington book
about wine grapes being shipped to NY vinters, ca. late 40's. Hungarian
Tokays. Why would one ship the grapes and not just the juice?


Re: Other stuff I came across

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Ed and friends,

When I was stationed in Long Beach with the U.S. Coast Guard, I
occasionally ventured down to the harbor (rare, but then I sailed a desk
for eight years). Near the Metropolitan Terminal was a large banana
dock, probably one of the main entry points to the vast California
retail market. I doubt that it was as big as the ones in Florida or New
Orleans, but an awful lot of fruit used to go up those conveyor belts.
Unfortunately, by the late 1970s it all went into trucks.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Ed Workman wrote:



Fer instance, Bannanas: some small quantities into NJ. and CA.
There were PFE cars dedicated to this service (That is, labelled "Banana
Service") between L.A. Harbor and Vernon, a tiny industrial city near the
southeast corner of central Los Angeles.


Re: SP Overnight scheme

Richard Hendrickson
 

You guys might know what the ORIGINAL scheme was, prior to WWII, but I
don't. MDC offers their SS 40 foot
7 panel Pratt truss car in an overnight black scheme, and while I know the
car itself is too tall, wrong ends, roof, etc., the SP did have 7 panel
Pratt truss box cars. So hard do we laugh at this version?
I waited for Thompson to respond, so I wouldn't get jeered at again, but
he's apparently busy working on a book. I haven't seen the MDC model in
Overnight paint/lettering, so I don't know which scheme they used, but the
original pre-WW-II Overnight scheme was applied to steel sheathed (not wood
sheathed) SP B-50-15 single sheathed box cars and consisted of black with
the sides outlined in Daylight yellow-orange and standard lettering (no
heralds) also in Daylight yellow-orange. After the war, many of these cars
received a later Overnight scheme which was similar to that applied in 1946
to the B-50-24s. This, too, was all black but had white lettering, a
yellow and black SP herald to the left of the door above the road name
(spelled out) and numbers, and a red and yellow arrow/ball Overnight emblem
to the right of the door above the dimensional data.

All more or less academic, in my view, since the MDC model is a hopelessly
inaccurate representation of the prototype SP cars (or any other prototype
cars, for that matter). Aside from having wood instead of steel side
sheathing, it's way too tall and has the wrong ends, roof, doors,
underframe, and trucks. Even to consider it as a stand-in, you'd have to
have seriously defective vision. (Fortunately, saying so on this list will
not bring on more hostility from the "three feet away" FCL subscribers.)

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Date of Change in NYC Painting Practice (was Intermountain kits)

Richard Hendrickson
 

John Nehric wrote:

PS - I had thought it was copper oxide that made the Pullman Green, too, but
Arthur Dubin in Kalmbach's Pullman Painting Guide said that Pullman combined
the yellow of rural dirt with the black of the industrial areas to make the
color....
Rural dirt yellow and industrial black make Pullman Green? I wonder where
Dubin came up with that notion, which I find seriously lacking in
credibility. Copper oxide pigment was what the Santa Fe used to make the
olive green (somewhat lighter than Pullman Green) they used on passenger
cars, and it seems reasonable to me that the Santa Fe was following common
industry practice in this regard.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Other stuff I came across

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Major aluminum plants were constructed on the Columbia River ( near The
Dalles for one) to support WWII aircraft production...lots of electricity
required
I'm surprised bauxite/alumina would travel west over Sherman, since a lot of it
came into Portland OR and was loaded onto trains for the trip up the Columbia
and into Montana. Before the war there was a very large aluminum facility right
outside Portland too.

On the other hand, wasn't there some bauxite mining in Missouri, or somewhere
in the midwest? Can you tell from the photo whose box cars are loaded with the
bauxite? That might give some clue to its origins.


Re: Other stuff I came across

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brock [mailto:brockm@...]
Dave, I'm curious. Any notion of whether the coal mileage was higher or
lower for the other 59%?

Well, yes. The report shows all 100%. I grabbed a sample. I suppose you
now want the rest too?

0-49: 8%
50-99: 10%
100-199: 16%
200-399: 41%
400-599: 21%
600-999: 3%

I'd gather that Sherman Hill is more than 999 miles from the Pochontas coal
belts... even in the dark.

I'm also curious about bauxite. There are photos of
a bauxite train...loaded in box cars no less...going west over
Sherman Hill in the 50s. Wonder what its destination was
and how often this happened?
Bauxite is included in commodity class 311: Aluminum ore. Per the 1%
waybill sample, a full 40% moved 2000-2999 miles by rail (26% in the 200-399
range and 21% in the 400-599 miles range).

Having said that, I turned to the Minerals Report of 1950 and found this
other data: Arkansas produced 98% of the national total of Bauxite
(1,552,047 tons), most of which got refined nearby into Alumina. This sum
was only 43% of the nations consumption. Alumina was refined at 4 plants:
Alcoa's mobile AL. was the largest. They refined imported alumina. Their
East St. Louis plant refined Alumina from Arkansas. The Kaiser plant was in
Baton Rouge, LA. and worked over South American Alumina. Lastly was the
Reynolds plant in Hurricane Creek, Arkansas, which had the largest capacity
but apparently was under utilized. The G.S.A. purchased large quantities
for the national strategic reserve, which in this case was in Arkansas.
Most. but not all, Alumina went into metalitic Aluminum; some went into
abrasives.

The chapter on Aluminum states there were 11 (mostly unnamed) reduction
plants, several of which were inactive (Massena NY., Baden NC., Listerhill
AL.). It also states new plants were being built in Wenatchee WA., Jones
Mills, Ark., Corpus Cristi TX., Chalmette LA., and Klaispell MT.

I do not have the state to state distribution of the Products of mines, but
from the quarterly commodity reports 1947-50 it's clear shipment volume
fluctuated wildly -- 2:1 or 3:1 fluctuations from quarter to quarter.
1Q1950 was in the middle to low end. In this quarter, the largest shipments
of commodity class 311 were from AL - 27.5k tons, Ark - 90k tons, IL - 38k
tons, LA. - 84.8k tons are the 4 largest states of origin and WA - 132.8k
tons was by far the largest state of destination. Again, Quarterly data.

Lastly, from the 1950 Commodity reports from class 1 railroads, the C&S
bridged 95k tons in 1950; the CBQ bridged 219k tons; MP originated 127k tons
(most of which terminated online), received & terminated 316k tons, and
bridged another 381k tons; the UP received & terminated 232k tons in the
same year. No traffic to speak of on the SP, DRGW, or WP. And as I stated
earlier, I was unable to find the damn book so I was unable to obtain the
annual data from the GN, NP, TNO, ATSF, CNW... as I had planned to do,
which, with what I have in hand, would have given me 95+% of the tonnage
moved west of the Missisippi.

At any rate, it appears to me that that photo you saw was indicative of an
ongoing, large volume movement of alumina, no doubt to Washington. The data
suggests the UP had half of the inbound (rail) tonnage to Washington. I
would guess the other half was a CB&Q-GN plus C&S-NP movement.

Dave Nelson


Re: Other stuff I came across

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timoconnor@...]
I'm surprised bauxite/alumina would travel west over Sherman,
since a lot of it came into Portland OR and was loaded onto
trains for the trip up the Columbia and into Montana.
Before the war there was a very large aluminum
facility right outside Portland too.
Must depend on the year. 1Q1950 there were no originating shipments of
Alumina in either Washington or Oregon.

Dave Nelson


Re: Date of Change in NYC Painting Practice

Keith Jordan <kjordan@...>
 

John Nehrich wrote:

PS - I had thought it was copper oxide that made the Pullman Green, too, but
Arthur Dubin in Kalmbach's Pullman Painting Guide said that Pullman combined
the yellow of rural dirt with the black of the industrial areas to make the
color....
Then Richard wrote:

Rural dirt yellow and industrial black make Pullman Green? I wonder where
Dubin came up with that notion, which I find seriously lacking in
credibility. Copper oxide pigment was what the Santa Fe used to make the
olive green (somewhat lighter than Pullman Green) they used on passenger
cars, and it seems reasonable to me that the Santa Fe was following common
industry practice in this regard.
================================

Actually, what Durbin said referring to how Pullman Green came about was
this:

(quote) ...The result was a dark olive green originally called Brewster
green and later referred to as Pullman Green--more specifically No.70-10
geen. It wasn't a pretty color. It was utilitarian. It withstood weather
well and it didn't show dirt. (Years later, about 1960, when Canadian
National Railways was revising its image, research revealed that urban dirt
is black and rural dirt is yellow. Urban dirt and rural dirt simply amounted
to more pigment on top of Pullman green, which was a yellowish
black.(unquote)

Keith Jordan


Re: Date of Change in NYC Painting Practice

Richard Hendrickson
 

Keith Jordan wrote:

Actually, what Dubin said referring to how Pullman Green came about was
this:

(quote) ...The result was a dark olive green originally called Brewster
green and later referred to as Pullman Green--more specifically No.70-10
geen. It wasn't a pretty color. It was utilitarian. It withstood weather
well and it didn't show dirt. (Years later, about 1960, when Canadian
National Railways was revising its image, research revealed that urban dirt
is black and rural dirt is yellow. Urban dirt and rural dirt simply amounted
to more pigment on top of Pullman green, which was a yellowish
black.(unquote).
Thanks, Keith. That's a good deal easier to accept.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: "TW" reefers

John W Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

But getting back to the original reason I asked about this - since the TW
cars lasted until '49 at least, which of the Red Caboose cars might have
lasted past 1938 or were repainted in more modest schemes?
I know the Chateau Martin one doesn't even got back to billboard
reefer days, but the scheme itself is c. late steam (even if they had
ex-GPEX type cars, not former wood ice bunker reefer cars, at least that's
all I've ever seen besides one single-dome/compartment tank car in the ACF
book).
Some of the other schemes even Red Caboose admits are fictional,
but if the scheme itself is clearly out of place for post '38.
If I was modeling the 1920's, for instance, and there were some
neat wine cars available c. 1916, I would feel that whether or not the
schemes were accurate or just plausible, no way would I run them without
cutting into the feel of the period of Prohibition, bootleg, Elliot Ness,
speakeasys, and the like. So the question I have is do the Red Caboose
schemes do the same for any post-'38 layout?
Which brings me to another point. I still am confused by the
billboard ban. It seems that a careful reading of it actually was not as
restrictive as we tend to think of it. Yet I think it had a real "wet
blanket" effect beyond its narrow reading. I look at photos and see a
certain type of billboard scheme, promoting products, not just a big
version of the company's name, and when I find out the date of the photo,
(such as in the accompanying caption), it is always pre-'38. And I think
that the Red Caboose schemes, except for maybe the Ambrose wine one (which
is fictitious) would not have survived the ban. (Maybe what is confusing
is trying to read a period into a made-up scheme, as ones pre-'38 would be
clearly more promotional, so maybe the made up ones are too vague for
either before or after this date.)
- John


Re: SP Overnight scheme

John W Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Richard - MDC has this version posted on their web site. Yes, I agree it
would be far too wrong even the scheme is correct, but it is even
"wronger" if the scheme was never used on anything other than the IDE
steel box cars.
What I am trying to do is list objectively all the points of
differences for each kit version and let the modeler make a decision on
that, not on bissful ignorance. And even if someone decides to go ahead
and still get it, at least they can be prepared for critism. And their
friends can also be prepared to critize. (And then all go upstairs and
indulge in some of that cheap bulk wine and forget the matter.)
- John

On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

You guys might know what the ORIGINAL scheme was, prior to WWII, but I
don't. MDC offers their SS 40 foot
7 panel Pratt truss car in an overnight black scheme, and while I know the
car itself is too tall, wrong ends, roof, etc., the SP did have 7 panel
Pratt truss box cars. So hard do we laugh at this version?
I waited for Thompson to respond, so I wouldn't get jeered at again, but
he's apparently busy working on a book. I haven't seen the MDC model in
Overnight paint/lettering, so I don't know which scheme they used, but the
original pre-WW-II Overnight scheme was applied to steel sheathed (not wood
sheathed) SP B-50-15 single sheathed box cars and consisted of black with
the sides outlined in Daylight yellow-orange and standard lettering (no
heralds) also in Daylight yellow-orange. After the war, many of these cars
received a later Overnight scheme which was similar to that applied in 1946
to the B-50-24s. This, too, was all black but had white lettering, a
yellow and black SP herald to the left of the door above the road name
(spelled out) and numbers, and a red and yellow arrow/ball Overnight emblem
to the right of the door above the dimensional data.

All more or less academic, in my view, since the MDC model is a hopelessly
inaccurate representation of the prototype SP cars (or any other prototype
cars, for that matter). Aside from having wood instead of steel side
sheathing, it's way too tall and has the wrong ends, roof, doors,
underframe, and trucks. Even to consider it as a stand-in, you'd have to
have seriously defective vision. (Fortunately, saying so on this list will
not bring on more hostility from the "three feet away" FCL subscribers.)

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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Re: SP Overnight scheme

thompson@...
 

John Nehrich writes:
MDC offers their SS 40 foot
7 panel Pratt truss car in an overnight black scheme, and while I know the
car itself is too tall, wrong ends, roof, etc., the SP did have 7 panel
Pratt truss box cars. So hard do we laugh at this version?
As hard as you like, John. Beyond the 40-ft. length, I'd say the cars are
totally different. Doors, BTW, are also wrong on the MDC kit; so I'd say it
was about a complete miss all around.
If I recall correctly, the MDC car seems to be aimed at resembling the WW
II cars built to War Emergency standards, but (like Athearn) they used a
bunch of other components on hand, e.g. ends. Thus the car has, like so
many MDC products, no prototype at all--as far as I know.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: SP Overnight scheme

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Tony - I think the MDC car is an attempt to model the Santa Fe 7 panel Pratt
truss cars, but on their 1937 AAR box car body. But if I remember, their
earlier cast metal version had a Howe truss, which might have been a little
more useful on that car body.
And the problem is compounded by the fact that it doesn't LOOK like a
single-sheathed car, with too wide grooves for the boards, too shallow
relief for the bracing and lacking that "sunken cheek" look (like someone
with their false teeth out) of a true SS car. Finally, because of the
misfit of side to body, the ribs don't even reach the top and bottom of the
car. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: <thompson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] SP Overnight scheme


John Nehrich writes:
MDC offers their SS 40 foot
7 panel Pratt truss car in an overnight black scheme, and while I know
the
car itself is too tall, wrong ends, roof, etc., the SP did have 7 panel
Pratt truss box cars. So hard do we laugh at this version?
As hard as you like, John. Beyond the 40-ft. length, I'd say the cars
are
totally different. Doors, BTW, are also wrong on the MDC kit; so I'd say
it
was about a complete miss all around.
If I recall correctly, the MDC car seems to be aimed at resembling the
WW
II cars built to War Emergency standards, but (like Athearn) they used a
bunch of other components on hand, e.g. ends. Thus the car has, like so
many MDC products, no prototype at all--as far as I know.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history




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Re: SP Overnight scheme

Richard Hendrickson
 

John Nehrich wrote:

Tony - I think the MDC car is an attempt to model the Santa Fe 7 panel Pratt
truss cars, but on their 1937 AAR box car body. But if I remember, their
earlier cast metal version had a Howe truss, which might have been a little
more useful on that car body.
Same car body, John, just assembled from separate cast metal pieces rather
than one piece of styrene: rectangular panel roof, 4-5 Dreadnaught ends,
(poorly rendered) AAR underframe. So it wasn't useful at all.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


CN flats

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I know that the CN had straight side flats akin to the Tichy kit, but they also had cars in the 659000 series (the number Red Caboose uses). Were these also straight side cars? Did they have 12 pockets? - John


Re: "TW" reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

John Nehrich wrote:

....I look at photos and see a
certain type of billboard scheme, promoting products, not just a big
version of the company's name, and when I find out the date of the photo,
(such as in the accompanying caption), it is always pre-'38. And I think
that the Red Caboose schemes....would not have survived the ban.
John, I only have a couple of photos of the prototypes for the RC wine
reefers, but they don't entirely confirm your conclusions. Both are W. C.
Whittaker photos taken before WW II. One shows California Despatch Line
CDLX 279 (an ex-PFE car built in 1909 and rebuilt in 1933) with billboard
stenciling for the Italian Swiss Colony winery in Asti, Calif. The photo
is dated Jan. 11 1939 and the car had its journals repacked by the SP at
Oakland on Oct. 28, 1938, which suggests that it was expected to continue
in revenue service at that time. That car was in the CDLX 277-317 series,
and at least some cars of that series remained on the CDLX roster in the
ORERs through 1950, though all were gone by 1/53. How long they kept their
billboard paint schemes is, of course, unknown.

The other photo is undated but appears to have been taken at about the same
time. It shows CDLX 307 of the same series with fancy lettering and logo
for the Bear Creek Vinyard Assn. of Lodi, CA and the car is obviously
retired and out of service, as the ladders and sill steps had been removed.
Coupled next to it was CDLX 298 of the same series, also out of service as
its hand brake had been removed, so these cars were probably in a CDLX dead
line when photographed. FWIW, the last reweigh date on CDLX 307 was 12-34,
which was presumably the date when its billboard paint scheme was applied,
and it was only moderately dirty and weathered - ± about 5 years worth, I'd
estimate.

All of the cars in this series had wood roofs and were equipped with six
wooden tanks. On the evidence of the phots cited above, they had twelve
reefer-style hatch covers on the roof, six on each side.


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: "TW" reefers

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Richard - I'm not sure how much time was given to repaint the billboard
schemes. I kept coming back to the one article in the '42 MR that bemoaned
the total loss of these gaudy cars, and as a first-hand report as to the
overall effect. So when I say "pre-'38", I guess that could give a few
years leeway, but not much more than that - assuming he is correct, of
course. But still, is there any reason to suspect the RC schemes as
suitable for, say, mid-'40's?
Yes, all the cars in the series were said to have the 6 wood tanks, so I
guess all the RC cars should get the extra roof hatches. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: "TW" reefers


John Nehrich wrote:

....I look at photos and see a
certain type of billboard scheme, promoting products, not just a big
version of the company's name, and when I find out the date of the photo,
(such as in the accompanying caption), it is always pre-'38. And I think
that the Red Caboose schemes....would not have survived the ban.
John, I only have a couple of photos of the prototypes for the RC wine
reefers, but they don't entirely confirm your conclusions. Both are W. C.
Whittaker photos taken before WW II. One shows California Despatch Line
CDLX 279 (an ex-PFE car built in 1909 and rebuilt in 1933) with billboard
stenciling for the Italian Swiss Colony winery in Asti, Calif. The photo
is dated Jan. 11 1939 and the car had its journals repacked by the SP at
Oakland on Oct. 28, 1938, which suggests that it was expected to continue
in revenue service at that time. That car was in the CDLX 277-317 series,
and at least some cars of that series remained on the CDLX roster in the
ORERs through 1950, though all were gone by 1/53. How long they kept
their
billboard paint schemes is, of course, unknown.

The other photo is undated but appears to have been taken at about the
same
time. It shows CDLX 307 of the same series with fancy lettering and logo
for the Bear Creek Vinyard Assn. of Lodi, CA and the car is obviously
retired and out of service, as the ladders and sill steps had been
removed.
Coupled next to it was CDLX 298 of the same series, also out of service as
its hand brake had been removed, so these cars were probably in a CDLX
dead
line when photographed. FWIW, the last reweigh date on CDLX 307 was
12-34,
which was presumably the date when its billboard paint scheme was applied,
and it was only moderately dirty and weathered - � about 5 years worth,
I'd
estimate.

All of the cars in this series had wood roofs and were equipped with six
wooden tanks. On the evidence of the phots cited above, they had twelve
reefer-style hatch covers on the roof, six on each side.


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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SFRDs on UP tracks

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Brock's Fourth Law [ or was it the third? ] of Freight Cars is broken.
Previously I had been led to believe that Santa Fe reefers only traveled on
UP tracks in a westward direction [ implying being empty ]. I then did a bit
of photo research and, indeed, noticed that every photo of a Santa Fe reefer
on UP tracks was moving in a westward direction. Imagine my consternation
today when I found a photo in Union Pacific Steam in Color on pg 118 with
the following caption:

"...4015 arrived at the West end of the Cheyenne yard at 7 AM, October 18,
1958......with a 'Roseville block' perishable off the SP at Ogden that
consisted of 90 reefers, many of which were Santa Fe SFRDs, loaded with
grapes". Both the photo, caption, and book were done by Lloyd Stagner.

Is nothing sacred? Next they'll be telling us that some people's votes for
President may not have been counted.

Mike Brock


PROTO:HO Accumate couplers

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

We were in Montreal for our usual anniversary celebration Christmas week
when we got word of the impending snow storm at home. Got home on
Saturday @ 2:30 AM only to find a box from Bob Walker w/100 pr. of
Accurail's new couplers. After I unloaded the car, etc. I was so fired
up that I went
and installed a couple of pairs on some of their USRA DS boxcars. Wow!!
They seemed to track just fine whether being pushed or pulled on 15"R.
reverse curves, coupled to each other or real #5s. Shoved a string of
cars up the 10 1/2% 15"R curve to the 1st switchback and they worked
just fine.

These PROTO:HO couplers, combined w/NWSL PROTO:HO Code 88 and/or Code 72
wheelsets make it seem like there is finely a real alternative for those
of us who operate our railroads, resin cars and all, but still want
finer standards than the workhorse Kadee #5 or #58 and the Code 110
RP-25 wheel standard! Yes, if one car is on the end of a sharp (<20"R)
curve, the coupler will need to be nudged over w/a Switchman, toothpick
or similar tool, just like the prototype.

In my mind they are definitely a winner. I only hope the rest of the
model
community agrees.

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@...

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Re: "TW" reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard - I'm not sure how much time was given to repaint the billboard
schemes. I kept coming back to the one article in the '42 MR that bemoaned
the total loss of these gaudy cars, and as a first-hand report as to the
overall effect. So when I say "pre-'38", I guess that could give a few
years leeway, but not much more than that - assuming he is correct, of
course. But still, is there any reason to suspect the RC schemes as
suitable for, say, mid-'40's?
Well, I don't have the evidence to prove it but I'm inclined to say
"certainly not." At any rate, we're talking about only a handful of cars
here, as it's well documented that the billboard meat and dairy reefers
were gone by that time. And I keep coming back to the principle that it's
a mistake to model weird stuff even if you can document it. Even if you
know it to be true, do you really want to explain to every knowledgeable
person who visits your layout that the Italian Swiss Colony wine car
actually WAS still in service in, say, 1944, implausible as it may seem?
So I guess my answer is that in that respect the model really isn't
"suitable" even if the prototype was still around at that date. In any
case, it's likely that, however long they lasted, those wooden tank
ex-reefer bulk wine cars shuttled back and forth between the Central Valley
and North Coast of California where the wineries and growing regions are
located. So if you're modeling the Northwestern Pacific or the SP lines
that connected it to central Calif., okay. But on the Illinois Central or
the Atlantic Coast Line or the Rutland? I don't think so.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520