Date   
Re: The other Pgh produce yard photo

Bob Chaparro
 

Here is the PRR merchandise flat car.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Re: DL&W paint scheme

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Lester,

The character of Phoebe Snow as a promotional mascot dates from about 1900: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebe_Snow_(character) .

DL&W received series 51400-51749 from AC&F in November 1944 with "Route of Pheobe Snow" lettering, according to data and a builder's photo with an article by Ed Hawkins in the July 1991 RMJ. Whether this was was the first use of the slogan this way is unknown to me.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:03 AM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:
In build of Yarmouth Model Works Resin kit of Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, series 11350 to 11599, automobile boxcar rebuilt in 1936, one photo in the instructions has the car with the slogan “ The Route of Phoebe Show”.  When did the DL&W begin using this slogan?

Thank You for your time and effort to respond.

Lester Breuer

Re: The other Pgh produce yard photo

Tony Thompson
 

     Excellent photo, but the Ann Rosener one that Ted Culotta used on the cover of his Volume 3 of his Reference Manual series (refrigerator cars) is far better for seeing the freight cars. Her photo is also Library of Congress.

Tony Thompson



Re: The other Pgh produce yard photo

Bruce Smith
 

Gang,

Note that this photo shows that the car I previously identified as a PRR X31B is, in reality, the very similar N&W B2 boxcar.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 11:50 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] The other Pgh produce yard photo
 

Gang;

 

I knew I had pulled this somewhere.  John Vachon photo; June 1941;  either the same PRR FM container flat or one similar.  Another angle showing great mix of reefers, and some box cars to right on the closest tracks next to leads to 11th St.  So, whose box cars?

 

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017812378/

 

Elden Gatwood

Re: The other Pgh produce yard photo

Bob Webber
 

N&W, PRR, ACL.


At 11:50 AM 3/31/2020, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Gang;
 
I knew I had pulled this somewhere.  John Vachon photo; June 1941;  either the same PRR FM container flat or one similar.  Another angle showing great mix of reefers, and some box cars to right on the closest tracks next to leads to 11th St.  So, whose box cars?
 
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017812378/
 
Elden Gatwood

Bob Webber

Re: Accurail kit 4498

Tony Thompson
 

Fenton Wells wrote:

Try Black Cat decals he’s has excellent north of the border decal selections
Black Cat Decals are excellent products. I have been VERY impressed with them.

Tony Thompson
tony@...

Photo: Loading Grain With A Portable Elevator

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Loading Grain With A Portable Elevator

A photo from the Westman Journal website:

https://images.glaciermedia.ca/polopoly_fs/1.23665211.1552680593!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/portable-elevator-ag-museum-photo.jpg

This link may load slowly so be patient.

The story behind this photo, from the Manitoba Agricultural Museum, is on this link:

https://www.empireadvance.ca/2.4493/westman-journal/2.4724/a-moment-in-history-loading-a-producer-car-part-one-1.23665207

This link also may load slowly.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

The other Pgh produce yard photo

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gang;

 

I knew I had pulled this somewhere.  John Vachon photo; June 1941;  either the same PRR FM container flat or one similar.  Another angle showing great mix of reefers, and some box cars to right on the closest tracks next to leads to 11th St.  So, whose box cars?

 

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017812378/

 

Elden Gatwood

Re: DL&W paint scheme

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Lester & Group!

Kaminski's "Magor" book, page 94 shows the "Phoebe" slogan applied to DL&W 51000-51399 new boxcars in April of 1942.  How much earlier this might have been applied on other cars I cannot say but you should find it appropriate based on your earlier "AB" brake question.

Regards from Mike Schleigh in western Penna.---Grove City

On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 10:03:01 AM EDT, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


In build of Yarmouth Model Works Resin kit of Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, series 11350 to 11599, automobile boxcar rebuilt in 1936, one photo in the instructions has the car with the slogan “ The Route of Phoebe Show”.  When did the DL&W begin using this slogan?

Thank You for your time and effort to respond.

Lester Breuer

DL&W paint scheme

Lester Breuer
 

In build of Yarmouth Model Works Resin kit of Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, series 11350 to 11599, automobile boxcar rebuilt in 1936, one photo in the instructions has the car with the slogan “ The Route of Phoebe Show”.  When did the DL&W begin using this slogan?

Thank You for your time and effort to respond.

Lester Breuer

Re: Photo: Early Santa Fe Boxcars At Eskridge Depot

Douglas Harding
 

More likely potatoes.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Vinci
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 4:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Early Santa Fe Boxcars At Eskridge Depot

 

Do you suppose those are sugar beets they are loading?

 

Dave Vinci

O==’=::

 

Re: Accurail kit 4498

O Fenton Wells
 

Try Black Cat decals he’s has excellent north of the border decal selections
Fenton Wells

On Mar 31, 2020, at 1:15 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

Rail

Re: Accurail kit 4498

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 03:03 PM, lsittler wrote:
Can you tell me what CN car number series this model is intended to represent?  Also, if you know of any prototype information that’s available I would be grateful. Same goes for decals. Secondly, I was fortunate enough to buy one of your CN 1917 boxcar resin kits. The resin castings are truly wonderful but since this is an older kit the instructions are somewhat inscrutable to me. Since I model 1961 I am interested in the later version of this car. I realize I will need to utilize an AB brake system. No diagram is provided. However, the instructions state that later “cast steel AAR style trucks” were used- do you know what trucks are intended by this language? Also, it is stated that “a length of old rail (later stated to be code 40) was fitted to the center of each end to add a fifth post”.  I am not clear what that means. I take it that these cars were numbered in the 500,000 series on CN. The decals look somewhat beaten up in my kit.  Any new ones available?

Wow, where to start? Decals... you do realize that I sold the resin kit line, what, 33 years ago, right? And, I'm not a CNR modeler, so I have no idea what is available in CNR decals today. Give the decals a try. They were printed by Rail Graphics (now out of business) who always did quality work.

I'll leave the AB brake questions to someone else, as I never researched it.

A really good, but somewhat confusing (because the CNR roster is so large) resource is Ian Cranstone's web site at http://www.nakina.net/cn/cn.html  I don't have a lot of data at my finger tips, but going strictly by the built dates, by memory:

The 1916-1917 built Canadian Government Railway cars became CNR 500000-500492 in 1923, and you should be able to follow them through the roster from there. Ian doesn't include the inside width dimension, but note these cars have a distinctive 3265 cu.ft. capacity because they are 9'-0" wide. These were BIG cars for the day.

The Accurail 4000/4100 series kits are based on the CNR cars built in 1923, '24, and I believe 1927, all 3098 cu.ft. capacity because IIRC they are 8'-9" IW. That would put them in number series 500500-503499 when built

The Accurail 4200/4300 kits model the 9' IH automobile cars built in 1923 as CNR 580000-580999, also 3098 cu.ft, after they were rebuilt with 6' doors in 1933 and renumbered 464000-464999, but they also may have been the ex Grand Trunk Railway cars built in 1921 and renumbered  in the series just below; I really don't recall which group had the steel ends.

I welcome any additions or corrections to this.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Accurail kit 4498

lsittler
 

Wow this is what happens when you can’t get one message through and then all 4 do LOL
 

From: lsittler
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail kit 4498
 
Oops..made a mistake. Correct CN series is 514068-514499. Les

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: Index to 101 Years of Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Official Minute Books and Records on 35 mm Microfilm 1849 to 1950 and C.E. Perkins Papers 1863-1907 Microfilm

John Larkin
 

It wasn't just a merger that triggered it.  Back in the late 70's the UP decided to clean out their old annex building NE of the HQs building.  They simply put gondolas on the service track and dumped everything out.  It's too long ago to remember much but I believe it was 4-5 stories tall.  Among the items thrown were boxes of 1930s era timetables.  A friend of mine happened to see it and loaded up a bunch for his collection and then passed one on to me - brand new condiition. 

In LA I bought a surplus filing cabinet and wound up with the original ink and linen drawings of some of the Las Vegas yard as well as other spots on the California Division (crew hotel, roundhouse drawings from LA, etc.).  I have them put away somewhere with the exception of two of the original drawings of the Pomona CA depot which I had framed and put on display.  I also wound up with old panel from the dispatcher's CTC board that was in LA.  No lights, but the original track patterns are preserved now.

It's amazing how much "stuff" is still around despite the best efforts of people to get rid of something that might have the taint of railroad history about it.  I'm glad I have what I was able to save.  Eventually I'm going to sell some of it because people willing to buy it are likely to preserve it and as I get older I have less time and use for some of the items.

John Larkin



On Monday, March 30, 2020, 7:52:51 PM CDT, Bob Webber <rgz17@...> wrote:


Well...one issue was the process itself, the materials just weren't meant to last forever - or rather, they were meant to, but they could not.  This is one reason I have been trying to find a service to transfer the film (movies & micro).

Another reason, somewhat associated, is that many people were under the (usually) mistaken notion that the media used was flammable, so tossed it, esp. once the emergency was over.  We had a standing order at several companies I worked at to toss any and all film over 5 years of age - X-rays, movies, what ever (of course, the X-rays weren't tossed, there was silver on them).

Yet another reason is change of management and/or mergers. Many railroads went through a change of management and direction in the 60s.  You had some that stayed true to the corporate heritage (for good or ill), others that wanted "all that old crap OUT!!"  With mergers, you'd have the actual winners of the merger (NOT always, or even USUALLY, the purchaser) come into the "enemy" camp and toss anything historical from the company that in one way or another, purchased the other.  So...you'd have some people from, oh I don't know, say SP come into Denver and station dumpsters down below the windows, and all manner of materials were simply tossed.  Same thing happened to the Wabash. Sae thing happened in airline mergers, software mergers, insurance mergers.  Vindictiveness and revenge all too often trumps (heh) the past.

And...from a railroad's point of view, retaining history of rail cars is not seen as a smart move.  Why?  We'll never use those again.  The only one who wants them are nerdy researchers and LAWYERS.  Don't believe me?  Look at the asbestos lawsuits.  We have lawyers calling at least once a month to get data on 80 year old rail cars, because there might be a dime in it for them.   Why take the chance?  What's that insulation material in that tank car?  No...you really don't want a record of that around. And who wants to separate wheat from chaff at that point?  Throw it ALL out.  Company records could be even worse.  Past legal issues get re-fought all the time.
 
Then there was simply cleaning.  A new manager would come into some department, say "get rid of that s**t!!"  He was given the job to glean up and garner space.  And they did it.  

Microfilm can be brittle, poorly packaged, poorly stored, stored incorrectly, etc.  And...one off its beneficial attributes became its biggest detriment.  Stuff smaller than a fist, is easy to lose, steal, throw out, over look, hide, "store (see hide)", etc.   Even in archives.  Even in well run archives. 

At 06:25 PM 3/30/2020, Tony Thompson wrote:
    This topic reminds me of something that came to light when I was researching the PFE book and interviewing retirees. Several told me the same story: that at the beginning of World War II, the government urged western companies to microfilm critical records and store them remotely.  The motivation being the possibility of Japanese incendiary attacks on the West Coast. Both SP and PFE did microfilm a lot of documents, specifically including car and locomotive drawings.
     No one has ever been able to tell me what happened to that microfilm, for SP and PFE or for anyone. If it exists somewhere, it might fill some of the gaps we have in the historical record for those companies -- and maybe for others.

Tony Thompson
tony@...




Bob Webber

Re: Index to 101 Years of Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Official Minute Books and Records on 35 mm Microfilm 1849 to 1950 and C.E. Perkins Papers 1863-1907 Microfilm

Bob Webber
 

Well...one issue was the process itself, the materials just weren't meant to last forever - or rather, they were meant to, but they could not.  This is one reason I have been trying to find a service to transfer the film (movies & micro).

Another reason, somewhat associated, is that many people were under the (usually) mistaken notion that the media used was flammable, so tossed it, esp. once the emergency was over.  We had a standing order at several companies I worked at to toss any and all film over 5 years of age - X-rays, movies, what ever (of course, the X-rays weren't tossed, there was silver on them).

Yet another reason is change of management and/or mergers. Many railroads went through a change of management and direction in the 60s.  You had some that stayed true to the corporate heritage (for good or ill), others that wanted "all that old crap OUT!!"  With mergers, you'd have the actual winners of the merger (NOT always, or even USUALLY, the purchaser) come into the "enemy" camp and toss anything historical from the company that in one way or another, purchased the other.  So...you'd have some people from, oh I don't know, say SP come into Denver and station dumpsters down below the windows, and all manner of materials were simply tossed.  Same thing happened to the Wabash. Sae thing happened in airline mergers, software mergers, insurance mergers.  Vindictiveness and revenge all too often trumps (heh) the past.

And...from a railroad's point of view, retaining history of rail cars is not seen as a smart move.  Why?  We'll never use those again.  The only one who wants them are nerdy researchers and LAWYERS.  Don't believe me?  Look at the asbestos lawsuits.  We have lawyers calling at least once a month to get data on 80 year old rail cars, because there might be a dime in it for them.   Why take the chance?  What's that insulation material in that tank car?  No...you really don't want a record of that around. And who wants to separate wheat from chaff at that point?  Throw it ALL out.  Company records could be even worse.  Past legal issues get re-fought all the time.
 
Then there was simply cleaning.  A new manager would come into some department, say "get rid of that s**t!!"  He was given the job to glean up and garner space.  And they did it.  

Microfilm can be brittle, poorly packaged, poorly stored, stored incorrectly, etc.  And...one off its beneficial attributes became its biggest detriment.  Stuff smaller than a fist, is easy to lose, steal, throw out, over look, hide, "store (see hide)", etc.   Even in archives.  Even in well run archives. 

At 06:25 PM 3/30/2020, Tony Thompson wrote:
    This topic reminds me of something that came to light when I was researching the PFE book and interviewing retirees. Several told me the same story: that at the beginning of World War II, the government urged western companies to microfilm critical records and store them remotely.  The motivation being the possibility of Japanese incendiary attacks on the West Coast. Both SP and PFE did microfilm a lot of documents, specifically including car and locomotive drawings.
     No one has ever been able to tell me what happened to that microfilm, for SP and PFE or for anyone. If it exists somewhere, it might fill some of the gaps we have in the historical record for those companies -- and maybe for others.

Tony Thompson
tony@...




Bob Webber

Re: Index to 101 Years of Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Official Minute Books and Records on 35 mm Microfilm 1849 to 1950 and C.E. Perkins Papers 1863-1907 Microfilm

Tony Thompson
 

This topic reminds me of something that came to light when I was researching the PFE book and interviewing retirees. Several told me the same story: that at the beginning of World War II, the government urged western companies to microfilm critical records and store them remotely. The motivation being the possibility of Japanese incendiary attacks on the West Coast. Both SP and PFE did microfilm a lot of documents, specifically including car and locomotive drawings.
No one has ever been able to tell me what happened to that microfilm, for SP and PFE or for anyone. If it exists somewhere, it might fill some of the gaps we have in the historical record for those companies -- and maybe for others.

Tony Thompson
tony@...

Re: Index to 101 Years of Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Official Minute Books and Records on 35 mm Microfilm 1849 to 1950 and C.E. Perkins Papers 1863-1907 Microfilm

Charlie Vlk
 

Bruce-
Thanks. I tried Worldcat again following your suggestion and, while I came up with a many intriguing CB&Q references, even narrowing down the search to Microfilm the 101 Years or Board Meeting Notes did not come up. Nor did anything on Charles Elliot Perkins.
Charlie Vlk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce A. Metcalf
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 12:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Index to 101 Years of Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Official Minute Books and Records on 35 mm Microfilm 1849 to 1950 and C.E. Perkins Papers 1863-1907 Microfilm

On 3/28/20 6:42 PM, Charlie Vlk wrote:

Please excuse the off-topic post but I need help on research:
I think that's mostly what we do here.


A couple of years ago I ran across an online detailed catalog
description of each of the 45 or so CB&Q microfilm rolls and an
additional 15 or so on C.E. Perkins papers 1863-1907 with call numbers
in some online catalog of a library or college library.
AFAIK it was a simple Google search. I somehow lost the link and
cannot find it again after trying every conceivable search term and
variation thereof that I can think of. ...

Any ideas on finding this website beyond the normal Google, Bing, etc.
search engines???
Try <http://www.worldcat.org/>. It's a union catalog of hundreds of large libraries, with an emphasis on university and research libraries.
I've found it an invaluable for seeing who has what.

Cheers,
/ Bruce /

Re: Norfolk and Western H2a split side triples

Rich Yoder
 

Hi Brad.

An interesting topic indeed.

In 1948 the production of H2A cars started 3,000 cars we’re built by Virginia Bridge and Iron Co. The Split side sheets we’re more a product of what steel sheeting was available verses having anything to do with rebuilding. The “A” was a product of a slight revise of the H2, (which was considered an experimental car.) The Principal design changes from the H2 were the reinforcement of the top side angles, corner gusset and the end sheets because of experiments  with coal  shake-out machines.  Most of the car parts were made in the Roanoke Shops and most cars we’re assembled in Portsmouth. In 1956 The last few thousand cars we’re built by AC&F (1M), Roanoke Shops (1.5M)  And Greenville Car (500) Bethlehem Steel (500). Bring the total cars built to 13,500 from 1948 until 1956.

Rich Yoder

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 12:00 AM
To: STMFC <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Norfolk and Western H2a split side triples

 

N&W split side h2a


I have found conflicting dates on the actual build dates of these cars.    Yoder has 52/53 but I think that was the rebuild date...  Can anyone please pass me the correct dates?

 

Thanks,

Re: Accurail kit 4498

lsittler
 

Oops..made a mistake. Correct CN series is 514068-514499. Les