Date   

Re: C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car product list

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Ben,

A very interesting list. I wonder how many of these variants had no prototypes, or perhaps represented just a single order. I'm especially dubious about some of the 12-panel cars. My sweetheart bought me an undecorated 12-panel car with 8' doors, 4/4 ends and a rectangular panel roof. I've never found a car with this combination of features, though it might provide kit-bashing fodder.

Despite having clunky add-on parts, the bodies of the C&BT cars were not bad for their time, and some of the feature combinations were close to prototype. Some of mine were upgraded with Intermountain ladders, brake gear and running boards, plus wire grabs and corner steps (and I may go back and improve others someday). They and the McKean/Front Range cars were a vast and welcome alternative to similar Athearn and Roundhouse products. Of course, Red Caboose, Intermountain, and Branchline were better still.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:21 PM Ben Sullivan <ben.sullivan75@...> wrote:
Greetings,

I've been on a tear lately trying to find HO scale matches for freight cars seen in photos of the railroad I model; the Georgetown Branch of the B&O, from 1945-55. As such, I'm pulling info from all over the place to try to get a better view of what kits have been produced over the years by various manufacturers. I'm no expert, and while I've been in the hobby my whole life, I have never before looked so closely at what has been offered over the years. I was recently directed to the C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car as a potential source for a model. Being that I couldn't find a good list of all the variants, I decided to put together all of the data I could find from the original C&BT Shops website using the Wayback Machine. I put it together in a spreadsheet and am sharing it here as a PDF. 

This is by no means meant to be a commentary on the cars themselves, as I know (based on reading many old posts here) that these cars had their plusses and minuses. This spreadsheet is just for those who might want to refer to it IF they are searching for a specific body type that C&BT Shops produced. Hope you find it useful. And if there are any errors/additions, I'm happy to modify it. Side note, In the interest of time I did not include all road names/numbers/paint schemes, as it was tough to discern based on what was on the Wayback Machine site capture and would probably not be comprehensive.

Thanks.
--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


Re: C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car product list

Bill Keene
 

Thank you for this effort. While I have only a few of the CB&T kits on the shelf this is a good reference and resource.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jan 27, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Ben Sullivan <ben.sullivan75@...> wrote:

Greetings,

I've been on a tear lately trying to find HO scale matches for freight cars seen in photos of the railroad I model; the Georgetown Branch of the B&O, from 1945-55. As such, I'm pulling info from all over the place to try to get a better view of what kits have been produced over the years by various manufacturers. I'm no expert, and while I've been in the hobby my whole life, I have never before looked so closely at what has been offered over the years. I was recently directed to the C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car as a potential source for a model. Being that I couldn't find a good list of all the variants, I decided to put together all of the data I could find from the original C&BT Shops website using the Wayback Machine. I put it together in a spreadsheet and am sharing it here as a PDF. 

This is by no means meant to be a commentary on the cars themselves, as I know (based on reading many old posts here) that these cars had their plusses and minuses. This spreadsheet is just for those who might want to refer to it IF they are searching for a specific body type that C&BT Shops produced. Hope you find it useful. And if there are any errors/additions, I'm happy to modify it. Side note, In the interest of time I did not include all road names/numbers/paint schemes, as it was tough to discern based on what was on the Wayback Machine site capture and would probably not be comprehensive.

Thanks.
--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD <C_BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car product list - BMS.pdf>


Re: C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car product list

O Fenton Wells
 

Great synopsis Ben, thanks for sharing 
Fenton 


On Jan 27, 2021, at 2:50 PM, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:


Ben,
 
Impressive.
 
Thank you for sharing your research.
 
Ken Montero
On 01/27/2021 2:21 PM Ben Sullivan <ben.sullivan75@...> wrote:
 
 
Greetings,

I've been on a tear lately trying to find HO scale matches for freight cars seen in photos of the railroad I model; the Georgetown Branch of the B&O, from 1945-55. As such, I'm pulling info from all over the place to try to get a better view of what kits have been produced over the years by various manufacturers. I'm no expert, and while I've been in the hobby my whole life, I have never before looked so closely at what has been offered over the years. I was recently directed to the C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car as a potential source for a model. Being that I couldn't find a good list of all the variants, I decided to put together all of the data I could find from the original C&BT Shops website using the Wayback Machine. I put it together in a spreadsheet and am sharing it here as a PDF. 

This is by no means meant to be a commentary on the cars themselves, as I know ( based on reading many old posts here) that these cars had their plusses and minuses. This spreadsheet is just for those who might want to refer to it IF they are searching for a specific body type that C&BT Shops produced. Hope you find it useful. And if there are any errors/additions, I'm happy to modify it. Side note, In the interest of time I did not include all road names/numbers/paint schemes, as it was tough to discern based on what was on the Wayback Machine site capture and would probably not be comprehensive.

Thanks.
--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


Re: C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car product list

Kenneth Montero
 

Ben,
 
Impressive.
 
Thank you for sharing your research.
 
Ken Montero

On 01/27/2021 2:21 PM Ben Sullivan <ben.sullivan75@...> wrote:
 
 
Greetings,

I've been on a tear lately trying to find HO scale matches for freight cars seen in photos of the railroad I model; the Georgetown Branch of the B&O, from 1945-55. As such, I'm pulling info from all over the place to try to get a better view of what kits have been produced over the years by various manufacturers. I'm no expert, and while I've been in the hobby my whole life, I have never before looked so closely at what has been offered over the years. I was recently directed to the C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car as a potential source for a model. Being that I couldn't find a good list of all the variants, I decided to put together all of the data I could find from the original C&BT Shops website using the Wayback Machine. I put it together in a spreadsheet and am sharing it here as a PDF. 

This is by no means meant to be a commentary on the cars themselves, as I know ( based on reading many old posts here) that these cars had their plusses and minuses. This spreadsheet is just for those who might want to refer to it IF they are searching for a specific body type that C&BT Shops produced. Hope you find it useful. And if there are any errors/additions, I'm happy to modify it. Side note, In the interest of time I did not include all road names/numbers/paint schemes, as it was tough to discern based on what was on the Wayback Machine site capture and would probably not be comprehensive.

Thanks.
--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car product list

 

Greetings,

I've been on a tear lately trying to find HO scale matches for freight cars seen in photos of the railroad I model; the Georgetown Branch of the B&O, from 1945-55. As such, I'm pulling info from all over the place to try to get a better view of what kits have been produced over the years by various manufacturers. I'm no expert, and while I've been in the hobby my whole life, I have never before looked so closely at what has been offered over the years. I was recently directed to the C&BT Shops 1944 AAR Box Car as a potential source for a model. Being that I couldn't find a good list of all the variants, I decided to put together all of the data I could find from the original C&BT Shops website using the Wayback Machine. I put it together in a spreadsheet and am sharing it here as a PDF. 

This is by no means meant to be a commentary on the cars themselves, as I know (based on reading many old posts here) that these cars had their plusses and minuses. This spreadsheet is just for those who might want to refer to it IF they are searching for a specific body type that C&BT Shops produced. Hope you find it useful. And if there are any errors/additions, I'm happy to modify it. Side note, In the interest of time I did not include all road names/numbers/paint schemes, as it was tough to discern based on what was on the Wayback Machine site capture and would probably not be comprehensive.

Thanks.
--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


Photo: Crerar Clinch & Co. Gondola 636

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Crerar Clinch & Co. Gondola 636

A photo from the Pullman Library:

https://pullman-lib.smugmug.com/Railroad-C/i-NXXt4Zj/A

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Car built in 1903.

A 1923-14 shippers guide lists Crerar Clinch & Company as a coal company.

With offices in Chicago and St. Louis, the company owned, operated and distributed the product of the Majestic Coal & Coke Company at Clinch, Illinois.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Ingoldsby ore cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

The Gregg Train Shed Reprint No. 46 from the 1931 CBC only has a fairly small photo of an Ingoldsby hopper in an ad for Enterprise products. The actual plans for this or a similar car are found in Train Shed No. 5 on page 284. This volume is a reprint from the 1940 CBC, and would have the same page number. Curiously, the same plan is reproduced in approximately HO-size on both the front and back covers of TS No. 5.

The Ingoldsby plan from the March/April 1978 NG&SLG is a 3' gauge wooden car built for the Crystal River Railroad.

Richard, if you don't have the 1940 CBC or TS No. 5, contact me off-list and I will scan it for you.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 9:02 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Richard Townsend wrote:

Does anyone know of a source for a drawing of an Ingoldsby 60-ton ore car?

    It sticks in my mind that there was indeed such a drawing in a Train Shed Cyc, which of course means in a full Cyc too. I don't have mine handy.

Tony Thompson




Re: Ingoldsby ore cars

Kenneth Montero
 

 
There is a drawing of an Ingoldsby Patent Ore Car in 1978 March-April Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette page 39 - from https://www.urbaneagle.com/slim/NGSLGplanlist.html
 
I don't have that issue, so I cannot verify that it is a 60 ton car.
 
Is that what you are seeking?
 
Ken Montero

On 01/26/2021 9:02 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
 
 
Richard Townsend wrote:

Does anyone know of a source for a drawing of an Ingoldsby 60-ton ore car?

    It sticks in my mind that there was indeed such a drawing in a Train Shed Cyc, which of course means in a full Cyc too. I don't have mine handy.

Tony Thompson
 


Re: Ingoldsby ore cars

Richard Townsend
 

Thanks, Tony. There is a drawing of an 80 ton Ingoldsby car in the 1931 CBC, and that may have to do. I think I can interpret enough from that drawing, plus C&S freight car folio drawing I have, to come up with a credible 60-ton car (which actually will be a snow plow).

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: Ingoldsby ore cars

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Townsend wrote:

Does anyone know of a source for a drawing of an Ingoldsby 60-ton ore car?

    It sticks in my mind that there was indeed such a drawing in a Train Shed Cyc, which of course means in a full Cyc too. I don't have mine handy.

Tony Thompson




Photo: CNO&TP Automobile Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: CNO&TP Automobile Boxcar

A photo from the Pullman Library:

https://pullman-lib.smugmug.com/Railroad-C/i-CbDFtbh/A

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Built by AC&F in 1913.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: ATSF 10338 (Fe-24)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: ATSF 10338 (Fe-24)

A photo from the Pullman Library:

https://pullman-lib.smugmug.com/Railroad-As/i-Q9H9QZQ/A

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

The date of this photo is November 1946 or later.

This is one of 500 Class Fe-24 cars built by Pullman and delivered in 1941-42.

As delivered, the first 200 cars (series 10000-10199) had steam lines, signal lines and marker lamp brackets. The next 300 (series 10200- 10499) were assigned to general merchandise service. ATSF 10338 was part of this second group.

As World War II progressed, Santa Fe installed passenger equipment on another 100 cars in 1943, but not this car.

In 1946 this car and 49 others (series 10300-10350) were modified for auto parts loading. The modifications included securing one door shut. The stencil on ATSF 10338 indicates "This Door Fastened Shut".

Notice the trucks. These are Allied Full Cushion trucks that first appeared about 1941. The design was an intended to provide a better riding high-speed truck for freight cars in passenger express service. However, railroads using these trucks found their tendency to derail could not be corrected completely, and these were outlawed in interchange in 1955. Santa Fe removed these trucks on their Fe-24 cars in the late 1940s. Replacement trucks included Barber S-2 and ASF A-3 models.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: NYC 50-ft gondola build

Jim Betz
 

Eric,
  Thanks for this link ... excellent coverage of how to info for the hardware.
                                                                                                                         - Jim


Re: Photo: Milwaukee Road "Peek-A-Boo" Gondola 12

Jim Betz
 

Bob,
  Thanks for this - and especially for the link (buried in the prior thread but
definitely findable) to the '57 Milwaukee magazine ... there's far more in
that issue than just stuff about the Milwaukee or their use of peek-a-boo
gondolas.
                                                                                            - Jim


NYC 50-ft gondola build

Eric Hansmann
 

Part four of the NYC gondola build has posted on the Resin Car Works blog. Jerry Hamsmith and his Gondola Group tackle grab irons and hand brake hardware.


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Photo: Milwaukee Road "Peek-A-Boo" Gondola 12

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Milwaukee Road "Peek-A-Boo" Gondola 12

A photo from the Pullman Library:

https://pullman-lib.smugmug.com/Railroads-L-M/i-rXKtd6P/A

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

There was a previous discussion of these cars last February:

https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/search?q=peek

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Bill Welch FGE presentations

Paul R Greenwald
 

John -

Thank you for these links.

Paul R Greenwald 
PRRT&HS #1802 
NMRA #129229 


--
Paul R Greenwald 
PRRT&HS #1802
NMRA #129229


Re: Who manufactured this car?

Chuck Cover
 

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request to find the manufacturer of this good old M&StL single sheathed boxcar.  It has always been a mystery to me and although it does not meet current standards of model freight cars, I am happy that you guys have been able to identify it as an Ulrich kit.  I model the PRR's Shamokin Branch in the mid-50s and model from photographs and prototype information, however, I don't feel bad about having this car mixed in with the resin kits.  Always nice to add a little color to the consists.  Thanks again.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM


Ingoldsby ore cars

Richard Townsend
 

Does anyone know of a source for a drawing of an Ingoldsby 60-ton ore car?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: U.P. S-40-6 Double Deck Live Stock Car

Douglas Harding
 

In the group photos find https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/photo/43892/0?p=Name,,livestock,20,1,0,0

This is a standard livestock loading chart based upon animal size and how many can fit into a 36’ or 40’ car. The preference was to load animals in snug to eliminate movement. Movement often lead to injuries. At the same time cars were not to be overloaded. The ATSF provided agents a form 1558 to report overloading in stockcars if the shipper insisted. If a car was loaded less than full a partition was to be erected to confine the animals to one end of the car. Partitions were also used to separate large animals from smaller animals, ie separate cattle from calves, when loaded in the same car. Bulls were to be tied, to prevent movement and I suspect to keep them from attempts to mount cows.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 2:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] U.P. S-40-6 Double Deck Live Stock Car

 

I am hardly an expert in loading cattle into stock cars, but (common sensically) it does occur to me that loading full size livestock on an upper deck would raise the center of gravity for the car and load.  Seems to me that would not be a good idea.

I recall a tale about cattle and stock cars in a marvelous book about the Colorado narrow gauge ("Little Engines and Big Men") that said loaded stock cars were derailing because the cattle inside were moving to one side or one end of the car, causing the cars to become unbalanced.  The Superintendent put a stop to the problem by issuing a General Order that said, "Henceforth, all livestock will be loaded 50% heads and 50% tails in all stock cars."  Right!

Todd Sullivan

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