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Re: K4 Decals
Paul Doggett
Chuck
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That’s a really nice model I like the weathering and reverse Hutchins ends. Paul Doggett. England 🏴
On 23 Nov 2020, at 23:42, Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:
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Re: Photo: StLB&M Gondola 11050
Paul Doggett
Jerry
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
You have made a great job of the GOM. Paul Doggett. England 🏴
On 24 Nov 2020, at 02:13, jerryglow2 <jerryglow@...> wrote:
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Jack Mullen
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 02:47 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
They pulled a higher vacuum with a vacuum truck. Those are usually used for sucking out clogged sewer pipes and the like and obviously exceed “full” vacuum (14.5 psig). I don’t know HOW it works, tho.I hope this is meant as a joke that's too subtle for me to get. There isn't any vacuum that exceeds full vacuum, which is 0 psia. No matter how you pump, you don't get less than nothing, because you can't remove more than everything. Jack Mullen
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Re: Looking for Sunshine Models Kit #24.24 Swift 37' Reefer
jerryglow2
You did not include an email address Contact me at jerryglow at comcast dot net
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
mvlandsw
At least the collapsed car with a frame could be moved to a scrapper. The frameless ones would have to be cut up on site.
Mark Vinski
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Re: Photo: StLB&M Gondola 11050
jerryglow2
Sunshine made a minikit to convert their 42ft car. It consisted of an extra side to splice the sides longer and new ends. No underbody or decals. My model
https://web.archive.org/web/20151002172809/http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/modeling/StLBM_gon.html
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Re: K4 Decals
Dan Sweeney Jr
Nice looking model! Wondering how many other builders ran the retainer pipe straight down astride the end ladder. Sure would make it easier to model.
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Now if you were to have a tank car built to the minimum required standards, you might be tempted to fill it full of some heavy but free flowing liquid. Something with a suitably low viscosity, like clipper oil. And then, if you were to open a drain valve at the bottom of the tank, some of that liquid would drain out. BUT! What if in doing so, it sucked in some bubbles of air, like my ketchup bottle sometimes does? Then more such liquid could pour out the bottom. And you would have a mess between the rails that your track cleaning car probably wouldn't be able to clean up. BUT! If you put a hose on that drain, and ran a long hose down into a deep hole, like maybe the Grand Canyon, and put a check valve on it so the bubbles couldn't get back up the hose, then you could maybe get yourself a mess of scrap iron out of it. Better, if you used a sharp file to create some stress points in vulnerable places, you could maybe use less hose. Presto! You have demonstrated why most model RR tank cars are plastic and not steel. Chuck Peck (enjoying some wine and a few laughs)
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 8:00 PM mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote: There are formulas in ASME Section VIII of the Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code that will allow you to calculate, or at least read off a set of curves, the expected maximum external pressure a steel fabricated vessel (say, a tank car) can withstand without collapsing. Suffice it to say that the maximum possible external pressure a vessel in free air can see is 14.7 psi absolute (psia). This would be less, say, if you assume this tank car is on Tennessee Pass or somewhere like that.
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
mopacfirst
There are formulas in ASME Section VIII of the Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code that will allow you to calculate, or at least read off a set of curves, the expected maximum external pressure a steel fabricated vessel (say, a tank car) can withstand without collapsing. Suffice it to say that the maximum possible external pressure a vessel in free air can see is 14.7 psi absolute (psia). This would be less, say, if you assume this tank car is on Tennessee Pass or somewhere like that.
Some of the factors in the calculation are the ratio of the wall thickness to the diameter, and any reinforcement and the distance between reinforcements. The tank heads count. I think the most common way you can get a vessel like a tank car to collapse is to fill it with steam and then close the vents while it's hot. These guys who sucked a vacuum in one with a vacuum truck were probably doing this demonstration for the purposes of showing what could happen if you didn't have a vent open, and I'd say this is not surprising, that it would collapse at -7 psig or so (about 7 or so psia). Notice that, in the video, they taped all the couplings on their hose to prevent air from leaking inward. My best guess is that, if you did start to drain a tank car full of oil without opening a vent, a lot of it would run out by gravity but at some point it probably would collapse before it was fully drained. A riveted 8k or 10 tank during the period of this list could have been slightly stiffer than a modern welded one, but probably not by much. Or maybe not. Ron Merrick
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Re: K4 Decals
Dave Parker
There are some 52 individual messages concerning K4 decals in our archives. Not sure if this qualifies as "much" discussion.
-- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA
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Re: K4 Decals
I use them and they are very good. Fenton
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 6:42 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote: I just finished working on a Sunshine NC&StL 36' rebuilt boxcar. When decaling the yellow stripes, the Sunshine decals fell apart. I decided to order the K4 decals for the 40' NC&StL boxcar to try to use the yellow stripes on the Sunshine model. This was my first experience with K4 and I found them easy to use and they did a nice job covering the Youngstown doors. I used the kit's lettering to finish the car. --
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K4 Decals
Chuck Cover
I just finished working on a Sunshine NC&StL 36' rebuilt boxcar. When decaling the yellow stripes, the Sunshine decals fell apart. I decided to order the K4 decals for the 40' NC&StL boxcar to try to use the yellow stripes on the Sunshine model. This was my first experience with K4 and I found them easy to use and they did a nice job covering the Youngstown doors. I used the kit's lettering to finish the car.
I have not seen much discussion of the K4 decals. Have others used them and what has been your experience? Thanks Chuck Cover Santa Fe, NM
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Allen Cain
Impressive demonstration. If I am reading the vacuum gauge correctly it reads 15 inches of Mercury which is just over 7 PSI which is not much at all. But spread over the entire interior service which is a lot of square inches it adds up to a lot of force. The increase in vacuum pressure is directly related to the increase in "air" volume as the tank is emptied. So venting a tank car filled with liquid while emptying it from the bottom valve is pretty critical. Allen Cain
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Rufus Cone
The referenced youtube video misinterprets the trucks gauge (see the image at 0:43). It reads in inches of mercury, not psi.
With the gauge designed so that atmospheric pressure is set to read zero, a vacuum reads minus 27 inches of mercury. Rufus Cone Bozeman, MT
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
A vacuum gauge reading minus 27 is not reading pounds per square inch. It is reading inches of mercury that the vacuum can lift. Chuck Peck
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 5:47 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Tony Thompson
Claus Schlund wrote:
They pulled a higher vacuum with a vacuum truck. Those are usually used for sucking out clogged sewer pipes and the like and obviously exceed “full” vacuum (14.5 psig). I don’t know HOW it works, tho. Tony Thompson
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hi Ed and List Members,
That was subtle Ed, very subtle...
What Ed is trying to say is that normal atmospheric pressure is about 14.7
PSI.
Thus a PERFECT VACUUM would read at -14.7 PSI (note the minus sign).
Therefore, a "vacuum at -27psi" is not possible under any circumstance
on earth
Claus Schlund
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
spsalso
"...the destructive power of a vacuum at -27psi."
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I used to run a three-stage vacuum pump, and I could never get it below approx -15 psi. Wonder what I was doing wrong. Ed Edward Sutorik
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 01:14 PM, Charles Peck wrote:
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Allen Cain
Exactly! Allen Cain
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Re: HO Tank Car Lid
Steve SANDIFER
A friend who recently retired from supervising the Exxon tank fleet had a number of photos like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBq5uapC-e0 Most were related to cleaning, not unloading.
On of the funniest however was a line of tank cars with modern lock-tight couplers. One of the cars was missing a truck. Somewhere on the trip the truck derailed and left the track but the tank car stayed coupled to cars on both ends and finished the trip.
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:16 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO Tank Car Lid
Allen Cain wrote:
You mean like the one shown below? This one was steam cleaned and the manway closed with the tank hot. As it cooled and the pressure inside decreased, voila!
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