Date   

Re: Rapido USRA Single Sheath Boxcar announced

Michael Gross
 

Rapido is aware of the incorrect upper door guide length and the missing upper door stop as well.  They are on it!
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA


Re: N&W Paint Question

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Jim. I found George Tomans Chicagoland presentation, and according to Ed Hawkins, the roof also go car cement, so I’ll paint it black along with the underframe and trucks. Since the color photo I have shows some red on the trucks and brake gear from overspray, I won’t worry if I get some overspray when I paint the sides and ends.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Brewer
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 4:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Paint Question

 

Nelson,

Trucks and underframe (car cement) were black.

Jim Brewer


Photo of prototype GN 40' stock car series 55318

Andy Carlson
 


Inline image


Hello everyone-
I recently restored some patterns I made for the Great Northern's rebuilt-from-boxcars 40' stock cars. The 55200-55450 series, totaling 250 cars, were rebuilt from 31000 series of single sheathed box cars in 1958. Not a significant rebuild in that almost all of the 1925 built car's parts were retained. The wood siding was replaced with wooden slats and the steel 5/4/5 pre-war Youngstown steel doors were modified into top hung with 12 oval slots cut into the door.

Photos in color are found in Scott Thompson's GN box car and stock car 4-ways west book.

I have two of these resin casting sets and are ready for shipping now. Each contains the following:

1) Pair of stock car sides
2) pair of slotted steel doors
3) One 3/5 early Dreadnaught 'A' end with lumber door
4) One 3/5 early Dreadnaught 'B' end
5) One underframe with floor boards and stringers and bolsters
6) 2 slight fish belly center sills
7) 2 Pivoted Murphy flat roof halves with running board brackets
8) 5 roof support cross-ties
9) 1 set of CDS Vermillion Red Slant Serif lettering dry transfer

Not included are components the builder will need to supply. No couplers, wood running boards AB brake gear, Universal Hand Brake are also not included. Recommended trucks are Tahoe Model Works Dalman 2-level. Adding the bottom bars from the bottom of the journal boxes to the side frames will mimic an Andrews Dalman 2-level. Some of these cars had replacement self-aligning spring plankless double truss trucks also offered by Tahoe.

I will include one Red Caboose X29 wood running board. The builder will need to sand the screws and re emboss new screw dimples.

I am offering this pair of Great Northern stock cars for $59 each car, which includes shipping to within the US. I accept checks and money orders. With a small fee PayPal is welcomed.

The photo is of a recent in-progress assembly using these parts.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Inline image


Offered: (two only) resin HO GN 40' stock car series 55200-55450

Andy Carlson
 


Hello everyone-
I recently restored some patterns I made for the Great Northern's rebuilt-from-boxcars 40' stock cars. The 55200-55450 series, totaling 250 cars, were rebuilt from 31000 series of single sheathed box cars in 1958. Not a significant rebuild in that almost all of the 1925 built car's parts were retained. The wood siding was replaced with wooden slats and the steel 5/4/5 pre-war Youngstown steel doors were modified into top hung with 12 oval slots cut into the door.

Photos in color are found in Scott Thompson's GN box car and stock car 4-ways west book.

I have two of these resin casting sets and are ready for shipping now. Each contains the following:

1) Pair of stock car sides
2) pair of slotted steel doors
3) One 3/5 early Dreadnaught 'A' end with lumber door
4) One 3/5 early Dreadnaught 'B' end
5) One underframe with floor boards and stringers and bolsters
6) 2 slight fish belly center sills
7) 2 Pivoted Murphy flat roof halves with running board brackets
8) 5 roof support cross-ties
9) 1 set of CDS Vermillion Red Slant Serif lettering dry transfer

Not included are components the builder will need to supply. No couplers, wood running boards AB brake gear, Universal Hand Brake are also not included. Recommended trucks are Tahoe Model Works Dalman 2-level. Adding the bottom bars from the bottom of the journal boxes to the side frames will mimic an Andrews Dalman 2-level. Some of these cars had replacement self-aligning spring plankless double truss trucks also offered by Tahoe.

I will include one Red Caboose X29 wood running board. The builder will need to sand the screws and re emboss new screw dimples.

I am offering this pair of Great Northern stock cars for $59 each car, which includes shipping to within the US. I accept checks and money orders. With a small fee PayPal is welcomed.

The photo is of a recent in-progress assembly using these parts.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Inline image


Re: Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

Denis Kahl
 

Hi,

I use the "razor blade" etch bender ie one with the fingers. The one I have purchased comes from England and is made by Avonside Works. It comes with a single edged razor blade as well as longer metal blades so that longer items can be folded. I previously owned a Mission Models (USA) finger type which also came with multiple length blades but were made of plastic which degraded badly. Mission Models are now out of business.

Some of the etches that I bend require multiple folds for which the multiple sized fingers are ideal. I would think that the hinged type would not allow you to do multiple folds on an etch.

I have seen and held a hinged type but I shied away from it because you can't see what is happening until you open it up again for a pleasant or maybe an unpleasant surprise.

Denis Kahl
Melbourne
Australia


Re: Blacksmith Car

Gavin
 

I'll have to dig, but I know PGE had an offical foundry/blacksmith car post WW2.


On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 2:17 PM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:
The use of "blacksmith car" is my own. I don't remember where I heard the term, but it seemed descriptive- my apologies for the confusion.
 
Here's the story. I'm thinking about modeling this, but I need a better understanding of the type of MOW cars that might be used:
 
Cal Sexsmith wrote-
 The father of a friend of mine was a road repair foreman in the 1950s. He was assigned a road repair car which was an old boxcar with a bunkhouse/kitchen at one end and tools and parts at the other. The car, along with the road repair crew, would be moved from town to town by way freights so that they could repair cars where they sat. This might also be an interesting variation to add.
 
Scott Haycock

Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 06/13/2021 2:39 PM Dennis Storzek wrote:
 
 
Scott,
Where is this reference to a "blacksmith car" coming from?

Dennis Storzek


Re: Blacksmith Car

Scott H. Haycock
 

The use of "blacksmith car" is my own. I don't remember where I heard the term, but it seemed descriptive- my apologies for the confusion.
 
Here's the story. I'm thinking about modeling this, but I need a better understanding of the type of MOW cars that might be used:
 
Cal Sexsmith wrote-
 The father of a friend of mine was a road repair foreman in the 1950s. He was assigned a road repair car which was an old boxcar with a bunkhouse/kitchen at one end and tools and parts at the other. The car, along with the road repair crew, would be moved from town to town by way freights so that they could repair cars where they sat. This might also be an interesting variation to add.
 
Scott Haycock

Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 06/13/2021 2:39 PM Dennis Storzek wrote:
 
 
Scott,
Where is this reference to a "blacksmith car" coming from?

Dennis Storzek


Re: N&W Paint Question

James Brewer
 

Nelson,

Trucks and underframe (car cement) were black.

Jim Brewer


N&W Paint Question

Nelson Moyer
 

When I inquired about freight car red paints for N&W B-5 boxcars, I forgot to ask about the trucks and underbody. I have one color photo of a B-5 with what appears to be freight car red paint on the trucks, triple valve, and air cylinder. I don’t know if that’s from overspray with the car was repainted or usual practice for N&W. Did they use car cement on the underbody, i.e. do I paint it black? The roof and steel running board appears to be painted freight car red. So are the trucks and underbody freight car red or black?

 

Nelson Moyer


Re: Blacksmith Car

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 03:31 AM, Scott H. Haycock wrote:
Would this car be the same as a blacksmith car?
Scott,
Where is this reference to a "blacksmith car" coming from?

Dennis Storzek


Re: Blacksmith Car

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Randy,

A small addition to your otherwise excellent information. The model blacksmith car goes back at least as far as Truescale, probably to around 1958 or 1959. The Truescale line of plastic MW cars was reissued by Train Miniature around 1969 or 1970.

The bits and pieces from this car would have been more appropriate in a model building.

It is interesting how some of these old models have been traded around between various producers for years. Walthers still has the tooling for the 50 to 60-year-old Truescale and TM cars. Every once and a while they find a way to squeeze a few more dollars out of them by some creative re-issue. Some Athearn cars go back to the early 1950s under the Globe name.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 1:06 PM Randy Hees <randyhees@...> wrote:
It appears that the "Blacksmith Car" is a myth created by the movie Union Pacific, which included such a car in their railroad equipment, that car having been built by the studio from a former Virginia and Truckee box car.   

That car was later offered as a HO model by Trains Miniature, now under control of Walthers.  The car as modeled carried a brick blacksmith's forge, with a large bellows, as well as a small hand cranked derick.  The blacksmith's work area took up almost half the car, leaving the rest for barrels and such. The reality was much more likely a portable iron forge with a Champion hand cranked blower, which would have been commercially available, and easily set up next to the repair car.  Such a forge (large enough to straighten a truss rod) and associated tools and equipment will fit in the back of a small pick-up truck (I did for a car repair/restoration at Railfair 99 in Sacramento).  The forge can be carried by two men.  We have a photo of such a forge on the SP in Oregon, being used for car repair.

The description of a "one man crew" would suggest that the repairs in place would more likely be light work, replacing a journal bearing, repairing a brake beam or rod, but with one man would not include a wheel set.  A wheel set is too heavy for one man to handle, and if an axle failed on the road, would likely call for a wreck train with a heavier derrick, with multiple men and supply of trucks and wheel sets.

The concept of a Blacksmith car makes the most sense if  the car and crew was responsible for tool maintenance during construction, not car repair.  But  it is more likely that a railroad under construction would just send light tools (shovels, rock drills, pinch bars) back to the first division point and shop where they could do the work in a better equipped permanent facility.

With all that being said I have one of the model blacksmith cars... 

Randy Hees


Re: Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

Robert kirkham
 


I have one of the hinged benders (its packed away right now so I can’t confirm the model).  It works fine for Yarmouth ladders etc.  But the hinged piece is both a liability and a help.  When clamping the ladder stiles into the tool, one has to navigate the hinged piece flopping about.  Also, the part can slip into the gap at the hinge, and if you twitch when it is partly caught in there, you can get an unwelcome fold line.  I avoid that successfully almost all the time, but need to be careful.

Before picking up the hinged version I used a straight edge version.  I didn’t like the risk associated with slipping a razor blade under the etch in order to fold it.  It was hard to insert a razor blade evenly, from end to end of the etch.  Instead, I found the blade tended to go under one portion of the etch, raise it slightly and that allowed the blade to go under the rest of the etch.  But this gradual insertion of the blade could distort the etch.  For example, the etched ladders can tend to torque at the etched holes for the ladder stiles, their weakest point.  

The hinged version removes that risk.  Generally I think it is a superior tool for folding along long skinny parts.

Rob    

 
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?
 
Looking at the benders for photo etched parts here:
http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/index.php?cPath=21_225

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts/preferences/comments on the"hinged" types (MN004/014, or UMS17/18/19) vs. the "razor blade" or "just a square edge" types (JMC003/4/5 or MN022A/B or PIR135/195/300 or RP08/13/18)?.
I have seen the comments earlier about the "finger knob" vs "Allen wrench type (SHCS)" tightening screws...
-- 
Ken Akerboom 



For Sale - PRR Broadway Limited Locomotives

Mark Stamm
 

Please reply off list at mark at euphoriatt dot com

 

The following BLI engines are from my personal collection and have been box kept. Nothing has more than an hour or two of run time and is excellent working order. Venmo, or PayPal Friends and Family only. Shipper of your choice from 18951. 

 

I will consider reasonable offers, but no trades. Happy to send as many picture as you like off list.

 

$275 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 009 PRR M1b 4-8-2 #6716

$275 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 049 PRR M1a 4-8-2 #6798

$260 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 088 PRR I1sa 2-10-0  #4471

$285 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 2480 PRR I1sa 2-10-0  #4262

$285 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 2050 PRR I1sa 2-10-0  #4649

 

Regard,

 

Mark Stamm

 

 

 


Re: Blacksmith Car

Randy Hees
 

It appears that the "Blacksmith Car" is a myth created by the movie Union Pacific, which included such a car in their railroad equipment, that car having been built by the studio from a former Virginia and Truckee box car.   

That car was later offered as a HO model by Trains Miniature, now under control of Walthers.  The car as modeled carried a brick blacksmith's forge, with a large bellows, as well as a small hand cranked derick.  The blacksmith's work area took up almost half the car, leaving the rest for barrels and such. The reality was much more likely a portable iron forge with a Champion hand cranked blower, which would have been commercially available, and easily set up next to the repair car.  Such a forge (large enough to straighten a truss rod) and associated tools and equipment will fit in the back of a small pick-up truck (I did for a car repair/restoration at Railfair 99 in Sacramento).  The forge can be carried by two men.  We have a photo of such a forge on the SP in Oregon, being used for car repair.

The description of a "one man crew" would suggest that the repairs in place would more likely be light work, replacing a journal bearing, repairing a brake beam or rod, but with one man would not include a wheel set.  A wheel set is too heavy for one man to handle, and if an axle failed on the road, would likely call for a wreck train with a heavier derrick, with multiple men and supply of trucks and wheel sets.

The concept of a Blacksmith car makes the most sense if  the car and crew was responsible for tool maintenance during construction, not car repair.  But  it is more likely that a railroad under construction would just send light tools (shovels, rock drills, pinch bars) back to the first division point and shop where they could do the work in a better equipped permanent facility.

With all that being said I have one of the model blacksmith cars... 

Randy Hees


Re: Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

Jack Burgess
 

Ken…

 

I have a Photo Etch Bending tool and it works very well with photo-etched Running Board Braces from Yarmouth Model Works. I fabricated my first photo-etched ladder recently and used a MN004 UMM™ 3D Photo Etch Elbow Bender which worked very well. I then soldered the steps in place with the help of a Yarmouth Model Works Ladder Assembly Jig. Note: if you purchase one of these assembly jigs, you will need to purchase the bolts and nuts as indicated on the website. However, I could not find 6-32 x 1/2" bolts with the head the size needed by the jig. I ended up using the closes bolts I could find and using 5-minute epoxy to hold them in place.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

 

Looking at the benders for photo etched parts here:
http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/index.php?cPath=21_225

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts/preferences/comments on the"hinged" types (MN004/014, or UMS17/18/19) vs. the "razor blade" or "just a square edge" types (JMC003/4/5 or MN022A/B or PIR135/195/300 or RP08/13/18)?.
I have seen the comments earlier about the "finger knob" vs "Allen wrench type (SHCS)" tightening screws...
--
Ken Akerboom


Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

akerboomk
 

Looking at the benders for photo etched parts here:
http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/index.php?cPath=21_225

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts/preferences/comments on the"hinged" types (MN004/014, or UMS17/18/19) vs. the "razor blade" or "just a square edge" types (JMC003/4/5 or MN022A/B or PIR135/195/300 or RP08/13/18)?.
I have seen the comments earlier about the "finger knob" vs "Allen wrench type (SHCS)" tightening screws...
--
Ken Akerboom


Re: Blacksmith Car

Charles Peck
 

I would see a blacksmith and his car as attached to a Bridge Gang, sometimes called B&B.  Little need for forge work
and making parts on the spot for minor on the road repair.  On the road repair, as I see it, would most likely be draft
gear and truck work, or maybe brakes.  That sort of thing could largely be handled with standard parts.  No need to make
parts on site. 
Chuck Peck

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 6:31 AM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:
Folks,

I recently read a narrative by a professional railroader about a car used to repair bad order cars in place. This car, and its crew? one guy?, would be hauled  by a freight train to repair a car on-site. Would this car be the same as a blacksmith car? The description was of a car with a living space on one end, and tool storage on the other.


Scott Haycock


Blacksmith Car

Scott H. Haycock
 

Folks,

I recently read a narrative by a professional railroader about a car used to repair bad order cars in place. This car, and its crew? one guy?, would be hauled  by a freight train to repair a car on-site. Would this car be the same as a blacksmith car? The description was of a car with a living space on one end, and tool storage on the other.


Scott Haycock


Re: Reserves fully met: Great Northern 1954 rebuilt 50' SS auto car boxcar

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Am sorry. Meant to be private.
Staffan Ehnbom

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:24 AM Staffan Ehnbom via groups.io <staffan.ehnbom=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Andy,
You wrote:
 "along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame."
It sounds as if you say the original cars did not have cross-ties and cross members. That would be most unusual. That they had cross members is shown by the stringers which were fitted between  the cross members. Do you have access to the Jan 2016 RMC drawing? The 29000 series underframe was also a little different from the Westerfield 42000 series u-frame. I,ll try and attach a u-frame photo showing stringers.

Staffan

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 6:50 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
I have the 10 cars reserved. Thanks for those folks. My plans don't have me making more than these 10 cars.
Thanks,
-Andy

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 5:53:19 PM PDT, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:



The Great Northern had 1000s of early 1920s wood side box cars which had fishbelly structured underframes and early style of steel ends. In 1952 the GN initiated a rebuild of these cars into more useful all steel 8' single door box cars. The wood siding, flooring doors and roof were jettisoned to the trash heap. New riveted sides with post war Youngstown steel doors and a diagonal panel steel roof were placed onto the existing fish belly under frame and 6/5/5 Murphy corrugated ends. The cars were not heightened and remained at pre-rebuilt 10'0" IH.
Inline image

Bill Welch's  HO model from years ago.

The initial rebuilds were painted into the then standard GN Mineral Red scheme with a side ways facing goat. Early on quite a few were equipped with load dividers and were painted into at least 3 Orange and Green "loader" schemes. Even later, many received Vermillian red in slant serif and EB lettering plus Big Sky Blue and many Glacier Green schemes were done as well.

My work on this series of rebuilds was done years ago. At the time I was making these molds Bill Welch asked for a pair of sides as he had a Westerfield 1925 50' SS autocar, which were the types used for the rebuilding. I eventually tried an experimental technique to have the roof integrate the inclusion of the top gable shaped portion of the 6/5/5 corrugated ends. The end just needed to be horizontally flat across the top. While making the fit of the roof to the sides critically exact, the difficult-at-times of fitting roofs, sides and ends together with no gaps was made much easier.

I had made  a longer wheelbase fish belly under frame back then getting the striker distance to bolster center to 5'0".  I was to learn years later that GN did lots of modifications to the under frame for the rebuildings. Floor stringers which were not on the 1925 floors were added, along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame.

After some other current works which are placed ahead of this project are done I will complete the molds for this GN 50' rebuild box car. I am planning on making 10 casting sets which will be offered to the STMFC list at that time. If anyone wishes to have me reserve a non-obligated one of these cars for later purchase, feel free to ask. I am not accepting any up front money for these. Please note that these are not one-piece bodies.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




Re: Reserves fully met: Great Northern 1954 rebuilt 50' SS auto car boxcar

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Andy,
You wrote:
 "along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame."
It sounds as if you say the original cars did not have cross-ties and cross members. That would be most unusual. That they had cross members is shown by the stringers which were fitted between  the cross members. Do you have access to the Jan 2016 RMC drawing? The 29000 series underframe was also a little different from the Westerfield 42000 series u-frame. I,ll try and attach a u-frame photo showing stringers.

Staffan

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 6:50 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
I have the 10 cars reserved. Thanks for those folks. My plans don't have me making more than these 10 cars.
Thanks,
-Andy

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 5:53:19 PM PDT, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:



The Great Northern had 1000s of early 1920s wood side box cars which had fishbelly structured underframes and early style of steel ends. In 1952 the GN initiated a rebuild of these cars into more useful all steel 8' single door box cars. The wood siding, flooring doors and roof were jettisoned to the trash heap. New riveted sides with post war Youngstown steel doors and a diagonal panel steel roof were placed onto the existing fish belly under frame and 6/5/5 Murphy corrugated ends. The cars were not heightened and remained at pre-rebuilt 10'0" IH.
Inline image

Bill Welch's  HO model from years ago.

The initial rebuilds were painted into the then standard GN Mineral Red scheme with a side ways facing goat. Early on quite a few were equipped with load dividers and were painted into at least 3 Orange and Green "loader" schemes. Even later, many received Vermillian red in slant serif and EB lettering plus Big Sky Blue and many Glacier Green schemes were done as well.

My work on this series of rebuilds was done years ago. At the time I was making these molds Bill Welch asked for a pair of sides as he had a Westerfield 1925 50' SS autocar, which were the types used for the rebuilding. I eventually tried an experimental technique to have the roof integrate the inclusion of the top gable shaped portion of the 6/5/5 corrugated ends. The end just needed to be horizontally flat across the top. While making the fit of the roof to the sides critically exact, the difficult-at-times of fitting roofs, sides and ends together with no gaps was made much easier.

I had made  a longer wheelbase fish belly under frame back then getting the striker distance to bolster center to 5'0".  I was to learn years later that GN did lots of modifications to the under frame for the rebuildings. Floor stringers which were not on the 1925 floors were added, along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame.

After some other current works which are placed ahead of this project are done I will complete the molds for this GN 50' rebuild box car. I am planning on making 10 casting sets which will be offered to the STMFC list at that time. If anyone wishes to have me reserve a non-obligated one of these cars for later purchase, feel free to ask. I am not accepting any up front money for these. Please note that these are not one-piece bodies.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



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