Date   

Re: Hopper and gons, Monongah No 8 Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, WV 1907

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 08:55 AM, CJ Riley wrote:
I must dispute the comment about these not being beehive ovens. They are identical to the freestanding beehive ovens, just buried for heat retention and operational reasons. They were still called beehives.
I didn't realize that "beehive oven" was a term of the art, thinking it was more a historian / modeler's term. I stand corrected.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

 

PRR had some intentionally doorless cars they put in dedicated coke service, but accidentally doorless cars were not unheard of, with cribbing taking the place of a need for a door.

 

Coal and coke were both loaded into box cars early on, when hoppers/gons were unavailable, or in the event weather protection was desired.  I’ve seen correspondence on both, by a variety of parties.

 

You all have seen this photo.  How cool is that?

 

For coal loads, the boards were close together.

 

There is a lot of correspondence out there on the travails of this service, including disappearing doors, spilled loads, and coke-torched box cars.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

 

Hi Ken and List Members,

 

Good catch, Ken, I had not noticed that. If loading coal into a boxcar, perhaps a door is optional and the opening will be covered over agian with cribbing after loading but before departure? Or perhaps only use the door on the other side?

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 10:39 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

 

Is the door missing on this car?

Is there some type of cribbing inside the doorway?

Ken Montero






> On 06/23/2021 12:42 PM robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...> wrote:
>

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...>
>
> > B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907
>
> > https://wvhistoryonview.org/catalog/039674

> 72948 Look at the 4 digits visible on the end.
>
> --
> Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob
>
>
>





Re: B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Ken and List Members,
 
Good catch, Ken, I had not noticed that. If loading coal into a boxcar, perhaps a door is optional and the opening will be covered over agian with cribbing after loading but before departure? Or perhaps only use the door on the other side?
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

Is the door missing on this car?

Is there some type of cribbing inside the doorway?

Ken Montero






> On 06/23/2021 12:42 PM robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...> wrote:
>

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...>
>
> > B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907
>
> > https://wvhistoryonview.org/catalog/039674

> 72948 Look at the 4 digits visible on the end.
>
> --
> Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob
>
>
>






Re: Photo: Pickle Car - further question

David Leider
 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider


Re: B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

Kenneth Montero
 

Is the door missing on this car?

Is there some type of cribbing inside the doorway?

Ken Montero

On 06/23/2021 12:42 PM robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@windstream.net> wrote:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@hellgatemodels.com>

B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907
https://wvhistoryonview.org/catalog/039674
72948 Look at the 4 digits visible on the end.

--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob



B&O twin hopper and (probably B&O W-1) quad hopper Atlas Coal Corp Flemington WV undated

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
B&O twin hopper and (probably B&O W-1) quad hopper Atlas Coal Corp Flemington WV undated
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


B&O 320460 twin hopper Likely near Rosemont or Flemington, WV (undated)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
B&O 320460 twin hopper Likely near Rosemont or Flemington, WV (undated)
 
Note the train brake air line along the bottom of the car side, at least two patches applied to the steel sides, Andrews trucks, and basketball sized hunks of coal. Also, the wooden scotches on the rails to prevent cars from rolling, and the ground seems littered with coal. The second car appears to have an unevenly loaded heap of coal - careless mine operators?
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


GRCX 3800 tank - Koppers Coal Co Grant Town WV 1938

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
GRCX 3800 tank - Koppers Coal Co Grant Town WV 1938
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


C&O 40ft steel gon end view Island Creek Coal Co WV (undated)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
C&O 40ft steel gon end view Island Creek Coal Co WV (undated)
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


C&O 73753 hopper end view Island Creek Coal Co WV (undated)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
C&O 73753 hopper end view Island Creek Coal Co WV (undated)
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: W&LE wood coal gon at Beechwood Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, Monongalia County, WV 1907

Keith Retterer
 

Here is a builder's photo of W&LE 5000, built at the SSCC Butler Works in 1906.  

Keith


Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

brianleppert@att.net
 

SHPX 4733 has a different dome.

Brian Leppert


Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

Allan Smith
 

There is a photo of a 10,000 gal car WESTVACO on page 52 of Tank Cars AC&F by Ed Kaminski. But the car you are looking for is on page 96 of AC&F 1899-1999 by Ed Kaminski  It is an 8000 gal car ICC 103-W SHPX 4733 lot 2257 built 8-41.


Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Wednesday, June 23, 2021, 01:28:18 PM PDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Here is a 1957 photo showing the Westvaco + FMC lettering. Eventually soda ash out of Green River
became an enormous commodity for the UP.

Tim O'Connor

On 6/23/2021 4:16 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Jun 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Andy Cummings <andy.w.cummings@...> wrote:

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars. Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

Andy & Ben,
The earlier lettering clue by the side ladder of approx. 45,xxx pounds of water equates to a nominal 6,000-gallon capacity, a common size for chlorine tank cars. I did a search of ACF tank cars built from the mid-1920s thru the early 1950s but didn’t find any matches of 6,000 gallon, ARA V or ICC-105A cars originally owned by Westvaco or leased from SHPX Shippers’ Car Line and lettered accordingly. If not an ACF car, perhaps it was built by General American.

Westvaco Chorine Products Corp. and Westvaco Chemical Division, leased 38 SHPX 1958 cu. ft. LO covered hopper cars built from 5-47 to 6-51 (see RP CYC Vol. 27). Roughly 30 years ago I coordinated with Microscale, who produced decal set #87-660 that included lettering for these Westvaco LO’s and 4 plant locations to include South Charleston, W.V. 

I’m curious if anyone can determine an estimated date of the photo. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: National Car Co. Reefer NX 2550

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

 

While Larry asked about RF cars being rebuilt, your answer sounds more general. Indeed, ex-PRR RF cars DID make it into NX service. They obviously did not make it past WWII, but prior to that, they could be found, often leased to packers, including Kahns. I have a 1941 photo of EKSX 1046.  It looks like a small number of these cars remained in service, at least through the 1943 ORER.  The cars appear to have the standard "FGE/NX" style lettering for "THE E. KAHN'S SONS COMPANY", "EKSX" and "BRINE TANK REFRIGERATOR".

 

I do not know if any of these cars were rebuilt into more “modern” 36’ cars by FGE/National.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bill Parks via groups.io" <BPARKS_43@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 at 3:53 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: National Car Co. Reefer NX 2550

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Here is a question that is total speculation- were any of these 36 ft NX reefers rebuilt out of ex PRR
class RF cars?

My understanding (although I don't have anything to verify) is that all of the ex-PRR cars became FGEX cars, and none of them went to NX (which wasn't formed until about 8 years after FGEX).  If someone has evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear it.
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Re: Photo: National Car Co. Reefer NX 2550

Bill Parks
 

Here is a question that is total speculation- were any of these 36 ft NX reefers rebuilt out of ex PRR
class RF cars?

My understanding (although I don't have anything to verify) is that all of the ex-PRR cars became FGEX cars, and none of them went to NX (which wasn't formed until about 8 years after FGEX).  If someone has evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear it.
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Re: Photo: National Car Co. Reefer NX 2550

ROGER HINMAN
 

We’ve lost the FGEX wizard, but the strategy NX used was similar to what MDT did with ERDX; take all your old 36 foot cars and lease them to shippers who liked the shorter cars. If PRR transferred any of the said car to FGEX, it had a reasonable chance of making it to NX fleet. 

Roger Hinman


On Jun 23, 2021, at 2:55 PM, lrkdbn via groups.io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:

Here is a question that is total speculation- were any of these 36 ft NX reefers rebuilt out of ex PRR
class RF cars?
Larry King


Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

Tim O'Connor
 


Here is a 1957 photo showing the Westvaco + FMC lettering. Eventually soda ash out of Green River
became an enormous commodity for the UP.

Tim O'Connor

On 6/23/2021 4:16 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:
On Jun 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Andy Cummings <andy.w.cummings@...> wrote:

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars. Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

Andy & Ben,
The earlier lettering clue by the side ladder of approx. 45,xxx pounds of water equates to a nominal 6,000-gallon capacity, a common size for chlorine tank cars. I did a search of ACF tank cars built from the mid-1920s thru the early 1950s but didn’t find any matches of 6,000 gallon, ARA V or ICC-105A cars originally owned by Westvaco or leased from SHPX Shippers’ Car Line and lettered accordingly. If not an ACF car, perhaps it was built by General American.

Westvaco Chorine Products Corp. and Westvaco Chemical Division, leased 38 SHPX 1958 cu. ft. LO covered hopper cars built from 5-47 to 6-51 (see RP CYC Vol. 27). Roughly 30 years ago I coordinated with Microscale, who produced decal set #87-660 that included lettering for these Westvaco LO’s and 4 plant locations to include South Charleston, W.V. 

I’m curious if anyone can determine an estimated date of the photo. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jun 23, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Andy Cummings <andy.w.cummings@...> wrote:

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars. Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

Andy & Ben,
The earlier lettering clue by the side ladder of approx. 45,xxx pounds of water equates to a nominal 6,000-gallon capacity, a common size for chlorine tank cars. I did a search of ACF tank cars built from the mid-1920s thru the early 1950s but didn’t find any matches of 6,000 gallon, ARA V or ICC-105A cars originally owned by Westvaco or leased from SHPX Shippers’ Car Line and lettered accordingly. If not an ACF car, perhaps it was built by General American.

Westvaco Chorine Products Corp. and Westvaco Chemical Division, leased 38 SHPX 1958 cu. ft. LO covered hopper cars built from 5-47 to 6-51 (see RP CYC Vol. 27). Roughly 30 years ago I coordinated with Microscale, who produced decal set #87-660 that included lettering for these Westvaco LO’s and 4 plant locations to include South Charleston, W.V. 

I’m curious if anyone can determine an estimated date of the photo. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

Tim O'Connor
 


No need to guess, really. The "49000" (ballpark) water lbs stencil works out to approx 6,000 gallons.


On 6/23/2021 2:05 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
I'm with Steve.  It's most likely a smaller car; 6000 gallons is a reasonable guess.

Those 11,000-gal ICC 105 cars were used for "light" commodities like anhydrous ammonia and propane.  Liquid chlorine is 50% denser than water, which is why it was carried in small cars.
--
Dave Parker

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

 

Ben,

This car would have been assigned to/shipped from the Westvaco chloralkali facility at South Charleston, WV. That facility began life as the Warner-Klipstein Chemical Company around 1915, was acquired by Westvaco in the very early 1920s, and later by FMC (Food Machinery & Chemical Corp.) in 1948. 

I've seen other photos of cars in this dual WestVaCo/FMC scheme in the past, but I'm drawing a blank as to where, and don't have any saved off in my project folder for Carbide/FMC. I'll dredge through my dead-tree notes sometime this week and see if something surfaces. It's entirely likely the photos I'm thinking of were in regional history books. Not likely to be better quality, but might at least be enough to get reporting marks. 

I _think_ these cars were leased SHPX cars, but I could be confusing them with the rest of the leased FMC cars.
 Models (and possibly decals) have been produced for cars assigned to both the South Charleston (inorganic) and Nitro (organic) WV divisions of FMC, but I've not seen any mass-produced models in this particular transitional scheme.  

Incidentally, if you (or anyone) produce decals for these cars I would be greatly interested in a set or three. My long-term modeling plans include the C&O yard which directly serviced this facility and possibly part of the facility itself.

--
Andy Cummings
Houston, TX

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