Date   

Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tim O'Connor
 


I agree the S-corner end that Red Caboose did is not perfectly executed. I think
it can be improved (esp the rivets) with Archer rivets but I have not tried that yet.

Sunshine cast both 4/5 and 5/5 S-corner ends (more than 2) for various kits. So a
"cast of a casting" is an option for a better end. I think Dan Kirlin also did some
or at least one S-corner end, which may now be available from Yarmouth.

What I don't like about the Rapido RDC is the opening for the coupler - ugh!! No
excuse for it. On a car where that detail is so visible and obvious, why would you
take a short cut? It looks like a toy train.

Tim O'



On 6/26/2019 1:46 PM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Bruce, I might be an idiot in your perception, but Rapido didn't do it the way you describe AT ALL.
They did some research (not enough), added the WP barrel headlight and the WP raised number boards and were convinced their WP RDC-2 was 100% prototipical, like the others in the RDC herd. So that's why I placed my order.
Adding a grab ladder to the thing was a mistake, made in China (according to them).
They tried to correct it, which couldn't be done without damaging the model (which had been returned to China before due to an other issue).
Bad luck, not intended 'to sell more'.
BTW: I have a couple of those 1937 IM/former RC cars and the 'square' edges of the ends are a bit too square to my taste.
Also the rivet line is almost under the ladder and not on the edge of the end.
Apart from that the '37 car, lettered for 'my road' WP is 9'6" (maybe even 10' in model), while the real WP car (20001-series) is just 9' tall.
Speedwitch is the only one who ever made a 9' model of this car and I have two, so I'll pass on the IM car.
Fred Jansz
Picture: Red Caboose version of the car in question.
Other picture is the IM version of this car wich was issued decades ago and has a fake herald which is also too large. Ends and roof are bc brown, which should be black. Some input from a WP specialist might have led to another result in this case... just saying.

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

bill woelfel
 

According to Dobyne's ATSF book, Atsf bought 2000 Bx-27 in 1937........  as IM has lettered these....   10' 0" IH, wooden Running bds.    6/7/6 Youngstown doors, -4/5SD  ends  Duryea underframes and ASF2T trucks.  These cars look pretty close (but for the underframe)..  Bill W


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

mopacfirst
 

Interesting discussion, and I'd like to hear from a knowledgeable Nickel Plate fan.

Ron Merrick


Re: Anyone access ACF holdings @ Barringer?

Ed Hawkins
 


On Jun 26, 2019, at 10:37 AM, wahsatch <wahsatch@...> wrote:

Went online to see if/who possibly had the ACF freight car dwgs - Barringer/Mercantile library came back. Downloaded the 24meg file containing the ACF lot numbers; but it stops in 1923.
 
I'm looking for the 1926 UP ACF built ballast hoppers w/ Rodgers dump mechanism - UP class BA-50-2 [now HK-50-2], #85000-499, UP spec #64-A. In the 1928 CarBldrCyc, there is a CB&Q 50T ballast hopper which compares favorably with the earlier Uncle Pete. IRM has at least one of the CB&Q in their collection.
 
I model 1935 Uncle Pete in O & the straight side BA-50-2 would be a lot easier to build vs the offset top of the BA-50-1.
 
Anyone used the Barringer/Mercantile ACF collection?
 
Thanks for any help!
-=- Bob Colquitt

Bob,
The UP BA-50-2 ballast cars were built as ACF lot 156. They were 33’-2” length & 1982 cu. ft. capy. Other cars of similar design were:

C&S 15150-15249, lot 214, built 8-26
CB&Q 220000-220199, lot 447, built 7-27
CNW 96101-96499 (odd), lot 787, built ca. 3-29
PM 1000-1099, lot 857, built 5-29
CNW 95801-96099 (odd), lot 1661, built 5-37 (inside length one inch shorter but same cubic capacity)

The ACF drawing collection at the National Museum of Transportation has relatively few drawings prior to 1930. However, there are a few ballast car drawings that may help. 

The only drawing specific to lot 156 (but also other lots) is 5724736, 4/14/26, "Steel Details." Cars like this would typically have several “steel details” drawings, and this drawing would need to be pulled to see what parts are included.

There are 5 drawings for lot 787, 3 of which are applicable for lot 857 and all of which are applicable to lot 1661. In addition, there are a  half-dozen drawings applicable to lot 1661.

For these Hart ballast cars, none of them had a general arrangement drawing. Nearly all were drawings of steel details that include underframe parts, side construction, end construction, etc. 

Contact me OFF-LIST at hawk0621@...

I’ll assemble a list of available drawings & send an email with PDF of the list. The POC at the NMOT is Teresa Militello, who will need to be contacted for making either paper copies or digital scans and the cost. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tony Thompson
 

Tom Madden wrote:

Over six years ago the model railroad forum on trainorders.com degenerated into a discussion much like this one. I put up a post giving my views on working with manufacturers. It seemed to be well received. It's attached as a pdf file.

     Thanks for contributing this, Tom. It corresponds entirely to my experience (on the "advice" segment) and what Richard Hendrickson told me about his experiences providing advice to several manufacturers.
      You didn't  mention the response of some manufacturers, who may respond even to constructive advice with something along the lines of "who gives a s---."

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

O Fenton Wells
 

Well done Tom and I think this is applicable in most hobbies and professions.
Fenton

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 2:54 PM Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Over six years ago the model railroad forum on trainorders.com degenerated into a discussion much like this one. I put up a post giving my views on working with manufacturers. It seemed to be well received. It's attached as a pdf file.

Tom Madden



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tom Madden
 

Over six years ago the model railroad forum on trainorders.com degenerated into a discussion much like this one. I put up a post giving my views on working with manufacturers. It seemed to be well received. It's attached as a pdf file.

Tom Madden


Re: Gondola Tie Downs - How Strong?

Bill Welch
 

The Tangent parts have been available in the past and I just sent an email to Dave at Tangent asking if they imported any as parts with the new offerings. Attached os a photo of my Georgia 40-foot AAR gon using them. ACL also had duplicates. The L-L P2K 52-foot gondola for SL-SF and Rock Island could use these too.

Bill Welch


Re: Anyone access ACF holdings @ Barringer?

Dave Parker
 

Bob:

As I read it, the index that you downloaded is for surviving ACF photos (not all lot numbers are present), and as you say it stops in 1923.  What you are seeking first is the lot number for the 1926 UP 85000-85499 cars.

The complete list of ACF lots (original document, often hand-written) is available as a CD from Westerfield.  I quickly went through the 1926 (and 1925) entries, but did not see any sign of a lot of 500 cars for the UP.

Maybe someone with more UP-specific knowledge can shed some light on this.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Ken Adams
 

Will be buying the kit undecorated version (38000-1) as I like to diddle around with plastic models and improve them if I can. 


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tony Thompson
 

Fred Jansz wrote:

It's the details that count. Why not contact IM with tips and hints how to refine a car, so it becomes an almost perfect model?

        Most manufacturers have little or no patience with "volunteer" information. They already have "consultants" who may or may not know what they are talking about, but are on the inside already. And as others have said this morning, economics dominates any desire to make anything "almost perfect."
        By the way, another point: Fred, why don't YOU contact IM with these "tips and hints" instead of wishing someone else would? But if you do, don't hold your breath for results.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Fred Jansz
 

Bruce, I might be an idiot in your perception, but Rapido didn't do it the way you describe AT ALL.
They did some research (not enough), added the WP barrel headlight and the WP raised number boards and were convinced their WP RDC-2 was 100% prototipical, like the others in the RDC herd. So that's why I placed my order.
Adding a grab ladder to the thing was a mistake, made in China (according to them).
They tried to correct it, which couldn't be done without damaging the model (which had been returned to China before due to an other issue).
Bad luck, not intended 'to sell more'.
BTW: I have a couple of those 1937 IM/former RC cars and the 'square' edges of the ends are a bit too square to my taste.
Also the rivet line is almost under the ladder and not on the edge of the end.
Apart from that the '37 car, lettered for 'my road' WP is 9'6" (maybe even 10' in model), while the real WP car (20001-series) is just 9' tall.
Speedwitch is the only one who ever made a 9' model of this car and I have two, so I'll pass on the IM car.
Fred Jansz
Picture: Red Caboose version of the car in question.
Other picture is the IM version of this car wich was issued decades ago and has a fake herald which is also too large. Ends and roof are bc brown, which should be black. Some input from a WP specialist might have led to another result in this case... just saying.


Re: Anyone access ACF holdings @ Barringer?

mark_landgraf
 

Bob

The St Louis Transportation Museum has most of the drawings. Some are cataloged and some aren't. Ed Hawkins (in this group) is a volunteer there.  Ed maintains a large database of the drawings and will usually provide you with a drawing list for specific car orders. 

That list is the tool you need for telling the museum want they need to pull or copy for you. 

Mark Landgraf


On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 11:37 AM, wahsatch
<wahsatch@...> wrote:
Went online to see if/who possibly had the ACF freight car dwgs - Barringer/Mercantile library came back. Downloaded the 24meg file containing the ACF lot numbers; but it stops in 1923.
 
I'm looking for the 1926 UP ACF built ballast hoppers w/ Rodgers dump mechanism - UP class BA-50-2 [now HK-50-2], #85000-499, UP spec #64-A. In the 1928 CarBldrCyc, there is a CB&Q 50T ballast hopper which compares favorably with the earlier Uncle Pete. IRM has at least one of the CB&Q in their collection.
 
I model 1935 Uncle Pete in O & the straight side BA-50-2 would be a lot easier to build vs the offset top of the BA-50-1.
 
Anyone used the Barringer/Mercantile ACF collection?
 
Thanks for any help!
-=- Bob Colquitt


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Bill Keene
 

Steve, 

Thank you for your efforts on the Rapido ATSF RDCs. I too would like to have a pair, but I doubt that they ever made it to Gridley. Although they would have been an enjoyable fan trip adventure out and back on the branch. 

Yes. These are well north of my "fan trip" budget. 

BTW... I believe that the ATSF 1937 AAR boxcars (class BX-27) were equipped with Duyea underframes. Is IM adding these to the models being offered? 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jun 26, 2019, at 8:28 AM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

I offered to help Rapido with the Santa Fe RDCs and they asked for more. They were eager to get the details on those right. I would love to have a set but they are not in my budget.  

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Fred Jansz
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 8:02 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

 

I'd appreciate it if there was much more communication between the specialists in the field -like there are many here online- and a manufacturer like Intermountain.
It's the details that count. Why not contact IM with tips and hints how to refine a car, so it becomes an almost perfect model?
It costs just as much to create a monster as it does to create a stunning interpretation of the real thing (take Kadee or Tangent for example).

Slightly out of the scope of this group but just to illustrate how things can go terribly wrong:
Rapido has introduced many different versions of their ultimate RDC's the last three years.
For the WP RDC-2 I offered them help and sent them a picture of the real thing.
They didn't need any help.
Result is their otherwise beautifully crafted WP RDC-2 (with barrel headlight and raised numberboards à la WP) now features a full size grab iron ladder, which the real thing never had.
Just to say. More communication between the model RR aces and the manufacturers would be appreciated.

Fred Jansz


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Bruce Smith
 

IM usually does undecorated kits as well.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jun 26, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

All RTR. Ready to rebuild. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jun 26, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Looking over the Intermountain announcement left me wondering.
Can I assume these will be kits? RTR?  Where did I overlook this detail?
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 9:48 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Fred,

I’m a little puzzled by your comments…

1) This is another “somebody ought to…” post. Dude, please shelve your expectations that somehow someone has an obligation to you or anyone else in the “modeling world”. I also spend enough time working with companies that I know that every model has compromises. They have to, or they won’t get produced. 

2) The IM boxcar in question is not new tooling but is the old RC tooling. IM isn’t going to “fix” any perceived “errors” in a tool that they bought… so you’re definitely barking up the wrong tree here.

3) Let me explain something about Rapido. It’s a Canadian company, primarily based on the sales of Canadian prototypes. I and many others (on this very list) have an outstanding and ongoing relationship with Rapido and I know that they really do care. BUT, in order to make the company work, they often take specific prototypes and paint them for other railroads, in order to increase their sales enough that they can feed their families. So your WP RDC issue may have nothing at all to do with prototype references or resources and everything to do with economics.

Sincerely,
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jun 26, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

I'd appreciate it if there was much more communication between the specialists in the field -like there are many here online- and a manufacturer like Intermountain.
It's the details that count. Why not contact IM with tips and hints how to refine a car, so it becomes an almost perfect model?
It costs just as much to create a monster as it does to create a stunning interpretation of the real thing (take Kadee or Tangent for example).

Slightly out of the scope of this group but just to illustrate how things can go terribly wrong:
Rapido has introduced many different versions of their ultimate RDC's the last three years.
For the WP RDC-2 I offered them help and sent them a picture of the real thing.
They didn't need any help.
Result is their otherwise beautifully crafted WP RDC-2 (with barrel headlight and raised numberboards à la WP) now features a full size grab iron ladder, which the real thing never had.
Just to say. More communication between the model RR aces and the manufacturers would be appreciated.

Fred Jansz





Re: Gondola Tie Downs - How Strong?

Tim O'Connor
 


Here is a detail photo showing the tie down welded to the top chord.

Tim



On 6/25/2019 7:35 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

I notice the latest Tangent models Western Maryland and Wabash gondolas have what they term  “wine” tie downs along the top edges of the sides:

https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/wm-54786-3.4-600-logo.x40443.jpg

and

https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/wab-detail-1-crop.x40443.jpg

Were the tie downs strong enough for most loads? Some of the other versions of the Tangent gondolas lack these tie downs so I wonder if some railroads did not find these useful or strong enough?

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Brian Carlson
 

All RTR. Ready to rebuild. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jun 26, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Looking over the Intermountain announcement left me wondering.
Can I assume these will be kits? RTR?  Where did I overlook this detail?
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 9:48 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Fred,

I’m a little puzzled by your comments…

1) This is another “somebody ought to…” post. Dude, please shelve your expectations that somehow someone has an obligation to you or anyone else in the “modeling world”. I also spend enough time working with companies that I know that every model has compromises. They have to, or they won’t get produced. 

2) The IM boxcar in question is not new tooling but is the old RC tooling. IM isn’t going to “fix” any perceived “errors” in a tool that they bought… so you’re definitely barking up the wrong tree here.

3) Let me explain something about Rapido. It’s a Canadian company, primarily based on the sales of Canadian prototypes. I and many others (on this very list) have an outstanding and ongoing relationship with Rapido and I know that they really do care. BUT, in order to make the company work, they often take specific prototypes and paint them for other railroads, in order to increase their sales enough that they can feed their families. So your WP RDC issue may have nothing at all to do with prototype references or resources and everything to do with economics.

Sincerely,
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jun 26, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

I'd appreciate it if there was much more communication between the specialists in the field -like there are many here online- and a manufacturer like Intermountain.
It's the details that count. Why not contact IM with tips and hints how to refine a car, so it becomes an almost perfect model?
It costs just as much to create a monster as it does to create a stunning interpretation of the real thing (take Kadee or Tangent for example).

Slightly out of the scope of this group but just to illustrate how things can go terribly wrong:
Rapido has introduced many different versions of their ultimate RDC's the last three years.
For the WP RDC-2 I offered them help and sent them a picture of the real thing.
They didn't need any help.
Result is their otherwise beautifully crafted WP RDC-2 (with barrel headlight and raised numberboards à la WP) now features a full size grab iron ladder, which the real thing never had.
Just to say. More communication between the model RR aces and the manufacturers would be appreciated.

Fred Jansz


Anyone access ACF holdings @ Barringer?

wahsatch
 

Went online to see if/who possibly had the ACF freight car dwgs - Barringer/Mercantile library came back. Downloaded the 24meg file containing the ACF lot numbers; but it stops in 1923.
 
I'm looking for the 1926 UP ACF built ballast hoppers w/ Rodgers dump mechanism - UP class BA-50-2 [now HK-50-2], #85000-499, UP spec #64-A. In the 1928 CarBldrCyc, there is a CB&Q 50T ballast hopper which compares favorably with the earlier Uncle Pete. IRM has at least one of the CB&Q in their collection.
 
I model 1935 Uncle Pete in O & the straight side BA-50-2 would be a lot easier to build vs the offset top of the BA-50-1.
 
Anyone used the Barringer/Mercantile ACF collection?
 
Thanks for any help!
-=- Bob Colquitt


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Charles Peck
 

Looking over the Intermountain announcement left me wondering.
Can I assume these will be kits? RTR?  Where did I overlook this detail?
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 9:48 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Fred,

I’m a little puzzled by your comments…

1) This is another “somebody ought to…” post. Dude, please shelve your expectations that somehow someone has an obligation to you or anyone else in the “modeling world”. I also spend enough time working with companies that I know that every model has compromises. They have to, or they won’t get produced. 

2) The IM boxcar in question is not new tooling but is the old RC tooling. IM isn’t going to “fix” any perceived “errors” in a tool that they bought… so you’re definitely barking up the wrong tree here.

3) Let me explain something about Rapido. It’s a Canadian company, primarily based on the sales of Canadian prototypes. I and many others (on this very list) have an outstanding and ongoing relationship with Rapido and I know that they really do care. BUT, in order to make the company work, they often take specific prototypes and paint them for other railroads, in order to increase their sales enough that they can feed their families. So your WP RDC issue may have nothing at all to do with prototype references or resources and everything to do with economics.

Sincerely,
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jun 26, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

I'd appreciate it if there was much more communication between the specialists in the field -like there are many here online- and a manufacturer like Intermountain.
It's the details that count. Why not contact IM with tips and hints how to refine a car, so it becomes an almost perfect model?
It costs just as much to create a monster as it does to create a stunning interpretation of the real thing (take Kadee or Tangent for example).

Slightly out of the scope of this group but just to illustrate how things can go terribly wrong:
Rapido has introduced many different versions of their ultimate RDC's the last three years.
For the WP RDC-2 I offered them help and sent them a picture of the real thing.
They didn't need any help.
Result is their otherwise beautifully crafted WP RDC-2 (with barrel headlight and raised numberboards à la WP) now features a full size grab iron ladder, which the real thing never had.
Just to say. More communication between the model RR aces and the manufacturers would be appreciated.

Fred Jansz


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Steve SANDIFER
 

I offered to help Rapido with the Santa Fe RDCs and they asked for more. They were eager to get the details on those right. I would love to have a set but they are not in my budget.  

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Fred Jansz
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 8:02 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

 

I'd appreciate it if there was much more communication between the specialists in the field -like there are many here online- and a manufacturer like Intermountain.
It's the details that count. Why not contact IM with tips and hints how to refine a car, so it becomes an almost perfect model?
It costs just as much to create a monster as it does to create a stunning interpretation of the real thing (take Kadee or Tangent for example).

Slightly out of the scope of this group but just to illustrate how things can go terribly wrong:
Rapido has introduced many different versions of their ultimate RDC's the last three years.
For the WP RDC-2 I offered them help and sent them a picture of the real thing.
They didn't need any help.
Result is their otherwise beautifully crafted WP RDC-2 (with barrel headlight and raised numberboards à la WP) now features a full size grab iron ladder, which the real thing never had.
Just to say. More communication between the model RR aces and the manufacturers would be appreciated.

Fred Jansz

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